What Makes Bowie Great?

What is it, in your opinion, that makes David Bowie a great artist?

I've been listening to his music for a while now and I've come to 2 conclusions:

1. The actual songwriting, in the sense of musical composition, is not amazing, except for a handful of songs. If you strip the production aside most of his songs are just workmanlike but not brilliant. There are exceptions though; Ziggy Stardust, Rebel Rebel, Modern Love, Under Pressure, Heroes, etc.

2. He's not really a great singer either. His voice is just kinda dull.

Yet a lot of people think he's great and I agree.

I've come to the conclusion that David Bowie's best strength as an artist was mainly on the conceptual level. He was a great lyricist and his albums always invoked all these interesting vague characters who were never fully explained but somehow felt compelling.

What do you think?

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>2. He's not really a great singer either. His voice is just kinda dull.
completely wrong

Every Bowie release was fresh and different from everything, and each one usually had an interesting and "revolting" theme.

Maybe he isn't a great singer in a traditional sense, but I would hardly say his voice is dull. So many of his choruses are so cathartic because of how passionate he gets singing them

>OP listens to bowie after listening to almost half a century of bowie-influenced bands
>"he doesnt sound that great guys whats the big deal"

kys

Listen to this album with an open mind, without scrutinizing every detail, then come back.

100% True

Bowie's a pretentious fag
People think theatricality = artiness but except for the Berlin trilogy he made manufactured adult pop music
Like every manufactured pop star he pretends to be geniuine and artsy and stupid people lap it up because they can't judge music without signs and symbols telling them what to think
Just like how people think Grimes and Bjork are "smart pop" because they're not very catchy and know how to use reverb

to be so young and naive

To be so young and naive
Nigga you're the one who knows shit

"nigga" idk how to respond to your reply

Well then you're a retard and I'm right.

bowei's strongest stuff are his songwriting, voice, and his melodic sense

that man had one hell of a melodic ear

No you just made no sense. I called you naive and then you told me I "know shit" instead of defending your self. So your only argument is that i'm a supposed retard.

Knowing shit meaning that you don't know shit
Are you 60 or something
Refute my opinion.

I didnt know "People think theatricality = artiness..." was an opinion, it sounded more like a false fact.

Why do you disagree with me?

I simply called you naive.

His voice isn't dull at all. One man being able to perform both Rebel Rebel and Life on Mars is pretty special.

The songs you cited as having more complex composition do not make sense. Rebel Rebel, Ziggy Stardust, and Under Pressure are all pretty simple structurally and instrumentally. Those songs are exceptional because of the textures, vocal talent, and details. They are pretty basic songs though.

As others said, his releases are pretty damn fresh. I think his ideas of rock n roll, rock, pop, and electronic music were always a couple more steps evolved that his peers. It gave his music an extra dimension.

K dude whatevs

maybe he was meming

yeah i honestly dont feel like pointlessly arguing

yea OP used some really shitty examples, the structure of those songs is very basic

if you want to see bowie's great ability of how to structure a song i can just say life on mars or five years

>pretends to be geniuine
He literally called his own music "plastic soul". People caring about how authentic music is has always been a 99% bullshit criticism. He knew that then and it's still true. Good music is good, regardless of how "manufactured" it is

His music is manufactured and cheesy and cliche
It's manufactured and bad because of it

>signs and symbols telling them what to think
Didn't rolling stone pan most of his work? He was successful and is still highly regarded based on the quality and uniqueness of his work. It's really that simple. You are essentially blaming an artist because you perceive his fanbase as being stupid, which has nothing to do with the actual work he released.

>cliche

what the fuck?

>Didn't rolling stone pan most of his work? He was successful and is still highly regarded based on the quality and uniqueness of his work. It's really that simple. You are essentially blaming an artist because you perceive his fanbase as being stupid, which has nothing to do with the actual work he released.
Yes I suppose you're right, he was popular so he must be good. brb gonna go listen to some Nickelback
what the fuck?

Even Life on Mars is simple structurally. It's just very dramatic with how the piano/vocals grow and how well the guitar and violins are introduced.

How do you make music without manufacturing it? What is non-manufactured music? Just music in which the artist didn't care enough to take their time with it?

You know what I mean faggot
His music is the type of soulless conveyor belt rock and every note is made to impress easily impressed retards

How did I say this:
>his music is still highly regarded based on the quality and uniqueness of his work

and you responded with this:
Yes I suppose you're right, he was popular so he must be good

I didn't bring his popularity up at all.

Then why don't more people do it? He is widely beloved, critically acclaimed, and made some nice money. If what he did is so easy, then why don't more people do it and attain his stature in music? And if what he did is not easy enough to be replicated, then why is it something you're shitting on?

>successful
meaning popularity you fucking cum dumpster
And what does it matter that his music is "highly regarded". Highly regarded by idiots who don't know shit about music. Not me.
Because David Bowie was symptomatic of the growing pains of American society into the postmodern era imo
There will never be someone like him because there are easier ways to get where he was at
Plus rock and music hall/cabaret are dead

>faggot

cum dumpster

lel

>He's not really a great singer

>I've never listened to Fantastic Voyage

wtf I love bowie now

>Highly regarded by idiots who don't know shit about music. Not me.

Well I think you're an idiot for NOT liking Bowie

Checkmate

>not seeing why David Bowie is special

Wow what a good well reasoned intelligent argument friendo
I am now officially a fan of le thin white faggot

Glad we could agree

Why is he special? Explain it to me. Of course, like Doors fans, Bowie fans can never quite articulate WHY he's such a genius. It's just an unspoken agreement that he is.

lel no one cares if you like him. It's fine not to like any artist. You tried trolling a thread and were destroyed anyway.

Take gun
Point head
Pull trigger

How was I destroyed? Bowie is still shit and nobody has refuted any of my points.

No artist has had as big an impact on the rock singer as a visual/as many good albums/simply a career play out like his did

Woah he had a unique career
Well so does every artist, what's your point nigger

>bowie-influenced bands
name one
just one

ill wait

>Bowie fans can never quite articulate WHY he's such a genius

Except for here:

I don't know how any fan of any musician can articulate why very well because of how visceral music is, but these are as decent as any other analysis I ever see on Sup Forums.

I will just say that if Bowie never existed, there would not be anything close to filling the void of music he left. No other career had a unique take on so many different styles. If a band like Boston or REO Speedwagon never existed, they wouldn't really be missed. Other bands do pretty much the exact same thing those bands did well enough. No one would really come close to the unique output of Bowie if his music disappeared.

You still haven't defined what non-manufactured music is. You just said "you know what i mean faggot". You seem to think that trying to impress people is a negative trait.

They never explained why he was a genius beyond "he made le good pop music"
Well then Rihanna and Drake are geniuses too, right?
And his music isn't good.
>I will just say that if Bowie never existed, there would not be anything close to filling the void of music he left. No other career had a unique take on so many different styles. If a band like Boston or REO Speedwagon never existed, they wouldn't really be missed. Other bands do pretty much the exact same thing those bands did well enough. No one
Holy shit this is a revelation if guy didn't exist guy's music wouldn't exist either????? Woah

Nine Inch Nails

Not that they're my favorite, but it's an obvious one.

Ah yes
I know it. I've been there. When you just KNOW you've lost the argument you resort to
>but what even is words man? Just define ur terms that everyone knows the meanings to!
It's OK, even Bill Clinton did it

>They never explained why he was a genius beyond "he made le good pop music"
The word "pop" was mentioned once in all of those posts. You are just desperate;y grasping at anything now.

>Holy shit this is a revelation if guy didn't exist guy's music wouldn't exist either?

The point is that his music and career were uncommon and far more singular than your average pop or rock act. Do you not agree the some music is more typical and common than other music?

And that's worse than turning into a middle schooler and using faggot and cum dumpster to try to make a point? Even decent trolls don't do that. It gives it all away mang

i can't believe i'm sitting here explaining the appeal of a star as fucking ubiquitous as David Bowie but hey the world is a wacky place

Name one artist who has done all of these things simultaneously
>Had upwards of 10 great albums
>Had 5 albums that have become iconic in the canon
>Is an utter pop star yet writes and arranges every note of the music
>Has a ridiculous ear for catchy hooks that has been proven by immense chart success and turnouts of thousands at their shows
>Has had a career of 40+ years
>Made 3 serious stylistic shifts in succession during the peak of very high popularity
>Has an idiosyncratic, evocative, ineffable singing voice (subjective but millions of people are of this opinion)
>Epitomized the rock singer as a visual
>Brought a decidedly queer sense of fashion to an unsuspecting mainstream audience and still managed to find a confident footing
>Brought an angle of art music to a pop context (Low) (lots of people have done this but they haven't done all of these other things)

>the world is a wacky place

>The word "pop" was mentioned once in all of those posts. You are just desperate;y grasping at anything now.
>yo-you're mad user! They said he made good music not good pop music!
It's the same thing you negroid
>The point is that his music and career were uncommon and far more singular than your average pop or rock act. Do you not agree the some music is more typical and common than other music?
Who cares if he was "singular"? Brokenycde has had a singular career in music too
Well then good thing I'm not a troll
But he hasn't had 10 great albums
His art rock is fake and sterile and boring, as is his regular rock
It doesn't matter how catchy his music when he had such a dubious talent for theatricality and literacy even though that's what made his music so le unique xD

>don't use the word faggot on Sup Forums it's offensive!

>fake

So you can't tell us what manufactured music is so you moved onto calling it fake? You sound like an pissy14 year old.

>Faggot!
>Cum dumpster
>lol I don't have to say what I mean
>negroid
>his music is so fake

Take a step back there Holden Caulfield. There is still life after getting ditched at prom.

Bowies probably my favorite artist and I think hes revered for his songwriting and performances. Id disagree completely that hes a mediocre singer. Sons of The Silent Age and Life on Mars are two of the best vocal performances Ive ever heard just loaded with emotion. Beyond that his albums were always tight and cohesive and always had very little fat although they all had some

I never said don't use it faggot. Just that he should pair it with an actual argument or else he sounds like a retard.

Okay then. Who would you say is a superior artist to Bowie. Preferably someone related to pop music so we can make a decent comparison. Who is your ideal artist? Or closest example of ideal?

Wow I'm in awe ur so mature
I'm sure you've never used any of the naugty words on the Sup Forums! So much intelligence!
Well guess what you sound like a retards

Also why is everyone so mad that I don't like Bowie? Why is it such an issue that you have to argue with me over my obviously correct opinion?

This discussion is about Bowie you faggot. Stop trying to derail it.

>Why is it such an issue that you have to argue with me over my obviously correct opinion?
Why the fuck is anyone on this website. It's a waste and everyone knows it.

lel you're a fuckboi

/thread

Scary Monsters
Low
Young Americans
Heroes
Let's Dance
Station to Station

listen to all of those and skip the rest.

I dunno user why are you on this website?

alright this is a lost cause, shame we couldn't convince our friend to consider our view

if anything, responding to him reminded me of pic related which i'm now listening to

What a comeback
Woah
I'm heavily burned user pls don't hurt me no more

Your a pretentious fag
"My taste is so good and everyone else is stupid"

Have you done your daily Lodger listening yet?

Bob Dylan and Tom Waits. One of whom was a very big influence on Bowie when he started out.

Not OP by the way.

death grips
youtu.be/WnsI67bHpmk

YES!

this

what's the girl's makeup?

kek

How can they use Ziggy Stardust in porn?

Reznor's favourite

>Ziggy Stardust, Rebel Rebel, Modern Love, Under Pressure, Heroes

How are these any more accomplished in terms of composition than his other songs? Those are some of his most straightforward pop songs, if anything.

MGMT
Talking Heads

>why is everyone mad that I don't like Bowie
>is angry at everyone who likes Bowie

Bowie died

I have to disagree. For me, Bowie is all about the songs. I've never really loved his production, he uses way too many effects and it usually sounds tacky and dated. I don't really care for the costumes and, to be honest, the lyrics. But I adore his harmonies and melodies; I think most of them are brilliant.

You mean like the copyright issue is not such an issue?

Yes, a ten minute long funk kraut song is definitely cliched i mean who doesn’t do that

There's a NWS content, and no janitor does shit about it.

I dont understand why he is such a big thing. I never have listened to much western music and never will, but I guess he is "alright".
He seems to be one of those guys who happened to make something right in the right time period when everything wasnt done to death already. Then he reached memestatus and became really popular. I will say this though, the lyrics are often quite something.

As a complete movie-burger, I can say for sure that the movies he is in are goddamn garbage and I am very lenient with movies. He just doesnt have anything to offer on screen, but his music is alright atleast.

My Chemical Romance

>2. He's not really a great singer either. His voice is just kinda dull.

this

He's goddamn perfect.

It's like he's a literal alien. Different eye colors, bizarre outfit, etc. This guy turned his death into goddamn art.

HE'S A STARMAAAAN WAITING IN THE SKY

I honestly started listening to Bowie with Black Star. I don't know what it is about that album but it's amazing. It's caused me to go back and really appreciate his eye and ear for music. He may not be the greatest ever but he is one of the greats.

>i only listen to Sup Forumscore: the post