So who was ACTUALLY in the wrong during the USA v Japan battles that ended with the atomic bombs being dropped in two...

So who was ACTUALLY in the wrong during the USA v Japan battles that ended with the atomic bombs being dropped in two japanese cities? Teachers in my country tell us the USA had to do it, but it could be bias speaking.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=AuPYzWnT1aA
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyūjō_incident
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

More people would have died on both sides if the bombs weren't used and a land invasion happend.

The Japs raped their way across China and the Pacific. They just plain deserved to get nuked tBh

This. Also, it took 2 bombs to finally get them to surrender, so what makes people think a land invasion would have achieved the same result?

We didnt have to do it but looking at it in the coldest most rational way possible it WAS the way to end the war with the least lives lost.

>The Japs raped their way across China and the Pacific. They just plain deserved to get nuked tBh
yes, their war crimes were way worse than what the germans did

>More people would have died on both sides if the bombs weren't used and a land invasion happend.
It's always funny seeing anglos disregarding the idea that things could have been ended peacefully

Considered that anime was born from the nuclear fallout, I'd say that it was a good idea.

Most Americans agree that Hiroshima was justified, the main controversy lying in whether Nagasaki was excessive.

the fire bombings infamously killed more people

grave of the firefly features them

We are talking about Japan.

The fags who were training school girls to charge American troops with spears.

They wouldn't have surrendered without the total shock and awe factor the Nukes had

Isn't dropping a fucking atomic bomb over a city full of children because of a "What if" scenario a bit much, though?

>Japs ending anything peacefully

it wasn't "necessary" but it did save lives, the pacific theater would have went on for a long time and a lot of people on both sides would have died. plus we REALLY wanted to test this thing on actual targets.

More children would have died if a land invasion ensued. You have to look at it from a bigger perspective.

It was better to nuke 2 cities than have half of Japan decimated by a long brutal land war

The Japs weren't going to surrender under normal circumstances. If the bombings hadn't happened, Japan as we know it may not even exist today. A land invasion would have only dragged the war on longer than necessary and could have very well meant the extermination of the Japanese people, since they were taught to fight to the very end. Not to mention, the bombs sent the message that you should never fuck with the USA.

they actually were in the process of surrendering because USSR declared war against them and invaded Manchukuo

the number one most important thing to them was that the emperor wouldn't lose his legal rights

americans didn't accept it but demanded a full surrender

after the bomb they gave up the emperor demand

>imperial japan agreeing to end the war peacefully
never would have happened, even if we left them alone china would have stepped in. so either we win, china wins, or japan turns into a little version of the middle east.

>ended peacefully

You know nothing about WWII and the Pacific Theater.

It was total war

Just because gaijins are racist.

>after the bomb
bombS, plural. we fucking nuked them and they wouldn't give up. japan wanting to keep the emperor in power would be like germany giving up but only if hitler could still rule. its pointless

>They wouldn't have surrendered without the total shock and awe factor the Nukes had
Not really they were still ready to fight, it was when the news went to the emperor that he ordered surrender, to the point of the ministers rebelling against him, the fact is Japanese culture literally endorses suicide in case of failure, and his ministers probably always told the emperor that everything was fine even thought it was, if the Americans could send a diplomat or something to the emperor maybe it could have ended peacefully. But why that when you can show the Soviet Union your might and get all of Japan under your sphere of influence just like Western Europe

Continuing to firebomb Japanese cities and killing millions of people is not more humane than killing 125k-250k people with the two bombs.

>the number one most important thing to them was that the emperor wouldn't lose his legal rights

The number one thing was that they wanted to keep their military.

And considering what they did they were immediately told to go fuck themselves.

I wasn't clear enough that I was talking about Nagasaki

Hiroshima happened before

You really don't know anything about the Japs during WWII, do you?

>could have ended peacefully

NO. The fucking Japs were fanatics. This was the only way. Now stop trying to convince yourself the US is bad for doing this

Nukes were never supposed to play any role in actual warfare vs Japan. They were simply meant to scare off the Soviets who've been destroying the Kwantung army and would've surely done the same thing to Japan they did in Korea had US not shown off its weaponry

no, it actually was emperor's legal rights

remember that they truly did worship the emperor as god

even the most stern militaryheads had utmost worship-like respect for the emperor

Holy fuck, is this what Americans sound like when we talk about the eastern front or WWI?

those children would have been shot if we invaded because they were all taught to fight back if we invaded same with women and the elderly. the pacific war would have lasted years and a lot more people would have died.

yes, I know, especially their respect for the emperor above all, it's you guys that don't know shit about Japanese Culture, or any World Culture. To the point of doing shit all the time due to your arrogance

well no because you never ever talk about the eastern front where 80% of nazi germany's casualties took place

>hue education

Who gives a shit.

They had to be beat, and they were fucking beat.

Burgers wanted unconditional surrender, it wasn't a "Japs were bloodthirsty drones ready to be exterminated!!" issue.

the emperor was a figurehead, even if commoners thought he was god his own people likely didn't. we could have killed him and someone else would have taken over. they wanted to keep their military and we said no. they didn't surrender so we nuked them. they still didn't surrender so we did it again. we had a third waiting but they finally came to their sense.

>They had to be beat, and they were fucking beat.
Yes and the USA is forever stained due to that

youtube.com/watch?v=AuPYzWnT1aA

>the emperor was a figurehead, even if commoners thought he was god his own people likely didn't.

t. high school senior

>implying burgers care what a favela monkey thinks of us
2 nukes weren't enough.

jesus christ you're talking out of your ass

literally all of that is untrue

Holy fuck are you retarded?

The Japs were fanatical and they wouldn't stop for nothing.

Fuck i hate my countrymen in this site.

>implying burgers care what a favela monkey thinks of us
yes keep on going with that foreign policy I am sure the world will simply surrender to you guys

>The Japs were fanatical and they wouldn't stop for nothing.
then why did they stop?

a guy tried a coup by just kidnapping the emperor
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyūjō_incident
that's all he would have needed

2 nukes. you know this. you've been here the whole time. at some point the emperor(or someone near him) said thats enough we surrender because they realized we weren't bullshitting about nukes. to be fair i think i read somewhere that we didn't give them enough time between bombs to surrender but i dunno if thats true

>2 nukes. you know this. you've been here the whole time.
Yes, 2 nukes certainly stopped the guys that literally kill themselves in the name of the emperor. And not really because it was for the first time impossible to deny their failure. And for the first time the emperor became really aware of the whole situation and ordered them to stop in the name of the japanese people. And that's the whole point, if you guys knew how the japanese culture works you guys could have avoided bombing them, but for what?

Are you even aware that he was basically kidnapped by the military?

i don't understand what you think should have happened. we should have sent a bunch of troops in or just asked nicely that they stop? or just bomb the shit out of them for a few years?

Holy shit, you really are retarded, aren't you?

there are other ways to end a war, by diplomacy especially, it's just that you guys thought they were too subhuman for that and your public opinion literally wanted blood

You could have accepted their surrender conditions but you didn't because the plan was to make Japan a vassal state.

>So who was ACTUALLY in the wrong during the USA v Japan battles

They were killing us, so we killed more of them.

diplomacy didn't work though. we tried. they didn't listen so we nuked them. they still didn't listen so we nuked them again. its not fucking civilization you cant just pull up the diplomacy menu and trade sugar for peace.

It's not that we thought they were subhuman. It's just a fact that they already were.

he himself selected tojo

>The army and the navy recommended the candidacy of Prince Higashikuni, one of the Emperor's uncles. According to the Shōwa "Monologue", written after the war, the Emperor then said that if the war were to begin while a member of the imperial house was prime minister, the imperial house would have to carry the responsibility and he was opposed to this.

>Instead, the Emperor chose the hard-line General Hideki Tōjō

most stories about the emperor's pacifism are exaggerated, his actions counts the most

by the way I'm not against the bombing of hiroshima unlike the brazilian

>japanese culture works

Go ask the Chinese, Koreans and South East Asia about Japanese culture during WWII.

No, we dropped millions of flyers over Nagasaki and Hiroshima, telling to GTFO or BTFO.

They didn't heed the first warning.

Pic Related: The fact that the US warned them via propaganda flyers is always swept under the rug.

those conditions included having a military and a god-king which wasn't going to happen after the shit they had just pulled.

there wouldn't even have been a war between them if the US hadn't bullied the japs into attacking in the first place

>diplomacy didn't work though. we tried. they didn't listen so we nuked them.
you guys sent a letter that didn't even reached the emperor m8, and they literally didn't respond to you guys

With the bombings all we got was fucking anime and a dysfunctional society.

>didn't even reached the emperor
show me some proof for this.

>Nagasaki and Hiroshima
you guys didn't even know you were going to bomb those places lol

If we never dropped the bombs, Belldandy would have never been created.

they had upper hand, why would they accept their conditions?

did we bully japan into invading manchuria or french indo china

>There has never been a cabinet in which the prime minister, and all the ministers, reported so often to the throne. In order to effect the essence of genuine direct imperial rule and to relieve the concerns of the Emperor, the ministers reported to the throne matters within the scope of their responsibilities as per the prime minister's directives ... In times of intense activities, typed drafts were presented to the Emperor with corrections in red. First draft, second draft, final draft and so forth, came as deliberations progressed one after the other and were sanctioned accordingly by the Emperor.

yes we did. we had multiple targets planned. where are you getting your info? weather impacted our choice but we knew more or less where they were going

Truman knew this would happen.

it was none of your business to try and stop them from doing that

People like to forget that they were warned

exactly so you guys dropped those leaflets on all those cities you were planning? Also do you really think they would believe in an enemy over their leaders m8? especially japan?

it was the best we could do. their leaders lied to them about what was happening. if n.korea nukes someone are we supposed to not retaliate because none of their citizens will believe its true?

...

>it was the best we could do. their leaders lied to them about what was happening.
kek also I just read they were dropped after Hiroshima Bomb

oh and the thing about hiroshima at the time is that interestingly the bomb was so efficient that full details about the bombing having taken place took some days to get to their HQ

they only got some shorter version at first which didn't tell much except that hiroshima was lost

where did you read that?

>enemy razing cities across your country warns you they're going to raze your city too
>believe them or your leaders who led them to that action
hmm

You probably read a bad source

>As the war turned against the Japanese, Hirohito personally found the threat of defection of Japanese civilians disturbing because there was a risk that civilians would be surprised by generous U.S. treatment. Native Japanese sympathizers would hand the Americans a powerful propaganda weapon to subvert the "fighting spirit" of Japan in radio broadcasts. At the end of June 1944 during the Battle of Saipan, Hirohito sent out the first imperial order encouraging all Japanese civilians to commit suicide rather than be taken prisoner.

>Poison gas weapons, such as phosgene, were produced by Unit 731 and authorized by specific orders given by Hirohito himself, transmitted by the chief of staff of the army. For example, Hirohito authorised the use of toxic gas 375 times during the battle of Wuhan from August to October 1938.

good foresight that man

why was it your business to prevent the japanese form getting their rightful clay?

>Article 4 prescribed that, "The Emperor is the head of the Empire, combining in Himself the rights of sovereignty, and exercises them, according to the provisions of the present Constitution," while, according to article 6, "The Emperor gives sanction to laws and orders them to be promulgated and executed," and article 11, "The Emperor has the supreme command of the Army and the Navy." The Emperor was thus the leader of the Imperial General Headquarters.

>In 1971, David Bergamini showed how primary sources, such as the "Sugiyama memo" and the diaries of Kido and Konoe, describe in detail the informal meetings Emperor Hirohito had with his chiefs of staff and ministers. Bergamini concluded that the Emperor was kept informed of all main military operations and that he frequently questioned his senior staff and asked for changes.

>We call upon the government of Japan to proclaim now the unconditional surrender of all Japanese armed forces, and to provide proper and adequate assurances of their good faith in such action. The alternative for Japan is prompt and utter destruction.

They chose prompt and utter destruction

Those dicks wouldn't stop Even after Germany an Italy surrendered. EVEN after we dropped the first nuke! The Japs were crazy, honor obbsesed, and deserved it. I'm still pissed that our president apoligized for it. desu 2 wasn't enough.

rape of nanking
they deserved even more nukes lol

Japan was on the wrong side of history in any meaning of the phrase, but the atomic bombings simply weren't necessary and anyone who argues otherwise has an incredibly loose relationship with the facts.

Many atrocities are done "for the Greater Good". There's no denying the fact that the USA government (not its people) acted inhumanly when they did it. They doomed innocent people, they 'pulled the trigger' on them. Dying by accidental fire during the war is completely different from actually intentionally killing innocent people. If the opposite happened (Japan made the bombs and nuked two US cities), the world would have decimated Japan.

Imagine if nyc and wasgington dc were nuked

I would be so fucking happy

can we nuke LA in this fantasy as well?

Which is why what actually happened is that the US only nuked two japanese cities to scare the russians.

One bad thing doesn't excuse the other.

what was the alternative?
look out guys this guys a bit edgy

Don't even bother coming to this threads.

You honestly expects burgers to be truthful about Hiroshima and Nagasaki when they balantly lie about Vietnam and Iraq?

The nukes were dropped simply for the sole purpose of threatning Russia and to test them. Curtosy of Einstein and a few of his international friends who vouched for the testing of nuclear weapones.

おまえも犯してやろうか?

I want rape yanks

>"Leave everything you own, everything you earned with your hard work in the name of our countries, or face nuclear melting death and diseases for 50 years!"

Man, the USA were such good guys...

in what world is it edgy to want to nuke la, washington and ny? half the world problems would be solved

yes, i know. the US is super evil and we're the reason your country is garbage. we do nothing for anyone and the world would all be living in total peace without us