>The song is known for its harmonic sophistication and extensive use of inverted chords, including third inversions such as B7/A. The first chord of the verse (D major/A) is a non-diatonic chord. The tonic chord (E major) usually only appears with the major 3rd or the 5th in the bass. The entire verse progression sounds restless and ambiguous, until the line "God only knows what I'd be without you" when the chord progression finally reaches a clear goal (A–E/G#–F#m7–E). This has been cited by musicologists as a good example of how lyrical meaning can be supported and enhanced by a chord progression—along with the melody hook which also provides an example of "a sense of increasing melodic energy that comes by way of the gradually ascending line". Stephen Downes similarly named the song's "tonal plasticity" emphasized by the disuse of authentic cadences and root-position tonics as the reason for its "expansiveness". In musicologist Philip Lambert's opinion, the song's vocal counterpoint evokes the sacred traditions of a cantata by Johann Sebastian Bach or an oratorio by George Frideric Handel.
>People still don't know that God Only Knows is the greatest pop song of all time
Well, Sup Forums doesn't want actual discussion i guess.
Cooper Perry
I mean, you havent really opened up much routes for discussion here. Other than "god only knows is shit" which isn't true so I can't really say that
Asher Perez
overrated trash
Sebastian White
Why?
Ethan Morales
it's shitty boring pop music for nerds and losers
more like god only pees what I'd know without poo
Aiden Cruz
>shitty boring pop music for nerds and losers Why?
Caleb Wood
nice b8
You can't deny that this song is one of the GOATs
Charles Nelson
This is Sup Forums. If you ask for a discussion you will not get one. If you meme, a discussion will form. Usually about politics
Mason James
>The Meme Boys
>Meme Sounds
Joseph Watson
Good thread.
Brandon Ortiz
Another curious thing is the almost absolute abscence of drums in this album. Anyone else noticed this?
James Thomas
Here Today is the best song on Pet Sounds
Charles Allen
Wow, never thought about it. But by recreating sounds in my head only song I can remember using anything but cymbal is Wouldn't it be nice. There must be more drums than that, no?
Gavin Mitchell
I know just enough about music theory to know what that means but not enough to actually discuss Sorry OP
Christian Hall
Listen to the opening of I'm waiting for the day
Ian Price
>inverted chords Whoa man, that's so complex.
Whaf if they used 7th chords? I bet they knew how to use this genious stuff.
Blake Morris
That's not how you spell Don't Talk
Jordan Watson
>context
Ryder Parker
idk man this text just seems like its written to scare people away from discussion
like none of this is that advanced, u have to keep in mind that this album came out at a time where modal jazz was mainstream, so it isn't weird that the song doesnt relate to the tonic very often. and i dont really see how using inverted chords is something unknown to pop music lol? Besides the 60's were probably the period with the weirdest pop / mainstream music, so even thought it seems advanced compared to some modern pop (which is getting more advanced), it's honestly not that special compared to other stuff.
you dont want a discussion you want a circlejerk like the guy that wrote the text you posted
the instruments act as rhythmic devices, which is fucking awesome >so even thought it seems advanced compared to some modern pop (which is getting more advanced), it's honestly not that special compared to other stuff. Not special compared to what exactly? i need links
Gabriel Collins
The coolest thing Brian ever did was the fact that Barynard and Im In Great Shape off of SMILE have practically the same chords (and just 2 of them) yet they sound nothing alike
Samuel Anderson
God Only Knows isn't a harmonically advanced song, and your choice of focusing upon it is telling of your lack of knowledge. Don't Talk is a far more chromatic, dissonant journey in passion.
Evan Thompson
>chromatic, dissonant nice buzz words, God Only Knows has just has much dissonance, hell even right before the chorus the bass hand plays a B flat which is an accidental from A, and the chorus is in A major, which really means it shouldn't sound right at all, but it does.
Juan Jones
Right, the string section in Don't Talk is probably the best as far as pop music goes. And in relation ot any other pop music from that time god only knows is extremely harmonically advanced.
Let's think of the Beach Boys contemporaries >The Byrds >Bob Dylan >The Rolling Stones >The Kinks >The Who >Simon And Garfunkel >Jefferson Airplane >The Animals >The Beatles
You won't find one single song by those artists as harmonically advanced as God Only Knows, especially before pet sounds was released. Frank Zappa is the only one who was really making harmonically advanced stuff in the level of Brian.
Daniel Peterson
Thats because they were written to be a part of the same song you dummy
Angel Reyes
How is it harmonically advanced?
Colton Hernandez
you guys would like cowboy in sweden by lee hazlewood if you like pet sounds
Joshua Butler
That usage of bass leading all the harmony (as opposed to just playing straight chords, brian was breaking them apart and abstracting them), the c part, the repitition of motives throughout the song, and just the amazing chord progression. it might not be schoenberg but it's quite harmonically advanced as opposed to any other pop/rock music of his time.
Adam Edwards
i meant their contemporaries, as I said the idea of relying on melody rather than chord progression was a widely known idea at the time because of modal jazz. so they kinda just took the idea from jazz and turned it into pop music by removing the sevens and nines and other jazzy chords.
Colton Lopez
But the Beatles do all of that as well.
Kevin Hernandez
>using music theory to justify shitty taste
Christopher Carter
>the beatles are good band so the beach boys are not!!!!@#!@#!@ stupidest argument of all time.
Jason Flores
nobody's doing that you spaz
Camden Perry
>as opposed to any other pop/rock music of his time Proves this statement wrong
Nice try though
Jaxson Jackson
Nah. Not at all, The Beach Boys were great.
But I think you're exaggerating a little here. Other acts were doing things just as innovative.
God Only Knows is amazing, though
Adrian Thompson
well the beatles never did anything close to that before pet sounds. closest thing is probably my michelle but it's still very far (harmonically speaking) from god only knows.
just for the record I want to say that rubber soul is one of my favorite albums and my michelle my favorite from it.
Isaac Gutierrez
>. Other acts were doing things just as innovative. who did and where?
if it's true then I just didn't hear it yet
Benjamin Myers
Calling 'Michelle', 'My Michelle'
fuck off
Jackson Wright
Thats because you don't listen to Motown or Stax
Landon Baker
I do. The musicians there are probably the best session musicians ever but harmoniclally speaking it's nothing too special, nothing like god only knows.
Nolan Watson
They have many examples of bass leading the harmony. You clearly haven't listened.
Tyler Taylor
There's a huge difference between james jameron and tommy cogbill improvising crazy lines then brian writing lines deliberately to make the bass lead everything. Brian was doing voice leads with the bass whereas motown/staxx bassists are playing it as if it's a duet between them and the singer. It's a very different approach of playing. But to sum it:
>Everything Carol Kaye plays in pet sounds and god only knows especially was written beforehand >Nothing James Jamerson played is written James Jamerson is my favorite bassist btw.
I can expand more on it but I hope I got my point across
Adam Rivera
God Only Knows and The Purple Botlle from AnCo are the 2 best ever love songs tbqh f@ms
Leo Parker
>james jameron and tommy cogbill improvising Prove it >Brian writing lines deliberately to make the bass lead everything You mean Carol Kaye >motown/staxx bassists are playing it as if it's a duet between them and the singer. Sounds innovate to me
Also >James Jamerson is my favorite bassist btw. >just for the record I want to say that rubber soul is one of my favorite albums and my michelle my favorite from it. Not relevant. This won't work btw
>I can expand more on it but I hope I got my point across Selective logic is self evident. No need
Nicholas Garcia
ok you seem to me like a huge retard but i will replay to this post and then fuck off because you're one of those closed minded people who think they know everything. no point in talking to your kind it's a waste of time and I prefer to practice.
>Prove it If you're unaware of James Jamerson improvising most of his lines you are not only ignorant of motwon (it's mentioned almost everytime they talk about james jamerson, it's also fucking obvious) but also lack a musical ear to notice how he rarely ever repeats himself.
>You mean Carol Kaye Yes, but brian was writing her lines
>Sounds innovate to me It IS innovative, when did I say it wasn't? Brian did a lot of innovative stuff but not all of the innovative stuff ever. don't be stupid.
>Not relevant. This won't work btw what? Am I not allowed to have rubber soul as one as my favorite albums, michelle my favorite from it and Jamerson my favortie bassist?
Colton Harris
Hey should I go see the boys sans Brian tomm?
Adam Collins
OP that is one circle jerk of music theory jargon. I applaud trying to start a conversation on Sup Forums that actually has substance, but that's too wordy and doesn't actually seem like it's trying to start a discussion more than vomit a bunch of words in my face.
God Only Knows is one of the greatest pop songs composed, but I don't know enough about music theory to carry on any sort of conversation about it. I just know my brain and ears adore the song.
Cant wait to see Brian Wilson perform Pet Sounds Aug. 19th. Any NC bros going?
Benjamin Ramirez
>then fuck off because you're one of those closed minded people But you are the one who was saying ONLY the Beach Boys are innovative. >If you're... This is not proof. it's interesting that when Jamerson is playing it doesn't count because it's improv, yet when carol Kaye improvises it suddenly is an intentional composition by Brian Wilson. >It IS innovative, when did I say it wasn't Isn't that your argument? No one else was innovative except Brian Wilson? >Am I not allowed to have rubber soul as one as my favorite albums, michelle my favorite from it and Jamerson my favortie bassist? Sure is convenient you just LOVE any counterargument I could make!
You have succumbed to selective reasoning. You are choosing when the bass is the lead or the vocal is the lead, depending who you choose to want to credit innovation to
Dominic Ramirez
Yea this post is the 100% truth.
Pet Sounds is absolutely a stellar record but the praise should be piled on the production techniques and the sounds he was able to get out of the Wrecking Crew and the wonderful unity he was able to tie between subject matter and sound.
The large majority of OP's praise isn't really for anything that was innovative except for the fact that it's in the pop structure which was (and still is) musically INCREDIBLY simplistic.
Levi Allen
it's like you can't even read
Bentley Williams
user you're really coming off as an asshole. These is a fine discussion on the whole and you're barging in like some shit brained Sup Forums poster being nasty and using weak shit arguments.
This has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing, you're being an asshole.
Liam Martin
You mean me or the guy who belligerently dismissed any artist as being innovative except The Beach Boys?
Samuel Bennett
B. Wilson was such a simp and his music reflects that
Gavin Bennett
everything great that happens should be judged based on it's enviorment context.
You judge miles davis' and charlie parker's influence and innovation based on what happened beforehand in jazz, not classical or any other genre.
And you also judge Brian's innovations in the context of pop not jazz or any other genre. Fact is, no one wrote pop music like that before (and I don't consider people that wrote standards like irving berlin or cole porter).
So in Brian's context he was VERY innovative. I mean modal music existing long before miles wrote milestones but miles was one of the first who did that concept in jazz and thus it's innovative.
William Carter
I agree with this guy. Though it's very wrong to isolate the Beach Boys as the only group making this kind of progress in pop music at the time. There were many other great and laudable innovations made by contemporaries in pushing pop to new heights.
Christopher Hughes
What is Bossa Nova anyways, right?
Jack Garcia
honestly this. post pet sounds you can hear some more advanced stuff (here there and everywhere was heavily influenced by god only knows but isn't close to as advanced as it), but there's nothing in the beatles catalog pre-pet sounds that comes close desu
Benjamin Brown
Except that Pet Sounds was influenced by Rubber Soul
Angel Barnes
more in terms of the idea of an LP with quality songs back to back and no filler. brian has said that while the beatles inspired him, they didn't influence him much musically.
Brandon Barnes
[citation needed]
Brandon Bailey
>nerd and losers?!
Asher Russell
Here you can find that type of analysis for ALL Beatles songs:
>The harmonic shape of this section is another story entirely; hardly at all "old fashioned" and rather both ingenious and clumsy at the same time. At the very start you pretty much assume that the opening chord (e-flat-minor) is the i chord of the home key but as the music free-falls first through D-Major and then continues down to D-flat-Major, you're no longer so sure about that; in fact, for a couple measures, you're totally lost and out to sea — go ahead and admit it, it's good for your soul :-)
>It's only after we come back to the e-flat chord in measure 5 that you quite regain your bearings, only now, this e-flat chord feels much more like a ii in relationship to the D-flat chord of the previous measure. The real coup is in the way in which the second time around, the music makes an harmonic pivot, using the same D-Major chord that had appeared more or less in passing during the first phrase, now as the I of the actual home key of the song.
Chase Adams
I agree. I don't think the beach boys were the only ones making progress. They were just the biggest, most important ones. It was a big movement of pop artists who like you said pushed pop to new heights. The Beach Boys were simply at the forefront.+
ahh.. Bossa Nova is a completely different field . Harmonically it's much closer to Jazz than those artists I mentioned.
Ryan Peterson
I play also Don't Talk from the same album and it has the same features.
The first chords on the verse doesn't give a clear goal until the choruse, which is obviously in Ab.
God Only Knows is great, but I prefer Don't Talk just for the melody in the verse not actualy playing the chords note, which is something I've never found in a pop song ever.
Brayden Ramirez
>The Beach Boys were simply at the forefront.+ When they were making surf music, sure.
Otherwise, not really.
Eli Myers
The bullshitting is extremely blatant in these. They're not even attempting to say anything, just describing how the song makes them feel.
Wyatt Sanchez
>ahh.. Bossa Nova is a completely different field Still is pop music
Joseph Sullivan
You mean like
Asher Gray
I dunno, for me this will always be the best Beach Boys song
Drums can be clearly heard on: Wouldn't it be nice That's not me I'm waiting for the day Let's go away for a while Then heavy percussion use on the rest of the Album's songs
Thomas Cruz
Did you read any of those? Its almost entirely music theory. For every song he talks about:
>style and form >melody and harmony >arrangment >section-by-section walkthrough
Xavier Roberts
>samba rhythms >jazz harmony >acoustic instrumentation >pop nah m8. it's something else. But if you have to put it into the equation then I agree it's very harmonically advanced, very original and an amazing style of music. You just can't compare it with the beach boys really.
Dominic Russell
>Then heavy percussion use on the rest of the Album's songs So... and absence of drums
Anthony Lewis
>harmonically advanced You keep saying this. What is harmonically advanced about Wouldn't It Be Nice? specifics instead if generalities please
Jackson Long
sophistication /=/ good music
suicides s/t is just a bunch of repetition and it sounds great
Evan Rodriguez
harping on brian wilson's virtual obsession with phil spector in the 60s, does "when i grow up" by the beach boys have a similar chord progression to "then he kissed me" by the crystals to anyone else ?
Alexander White
You post a citation on Rubber Soul influencing him musically. You're the one making a claim.
Leo Brooks
>musically Nice goalpost shifting
Still waiting on a citation for >brian has said that while the beatles inspired him, they didn't influence him much musically
Nathaniel Smith
he literally says in the smile (or was it the pet sounds one idek) documentary that rubber soul was a catalyst to him advancing his skills as a songwriter
>Wilson was immediately enamored with the album, given the impression that it had no filler tracks, a feature that was mostly unheard of at a time when 45 rpm singles were considered more noteworthy than full-length LPs.[40][41]
>He would say of his reaction to Rubber Soul: "I liked the way it all went together, the way it was all one thing. It was a challenge to me ... It didn't make me want to copy them but to be as good as them. I didn't want to do the same kind of music, but on the same level."[45] Later, he clarified: "The Beatles inspired me. They didn't influence me."[46][nb 11]
Josiah Stewart
Bossa Nova literally means "new trend" in portuguese
Nolan Bennett
>When the chorus kicks in right after the quiet pre-chorus
Fuuuuuuck yes
Logan Diaz
going just by the chord progressions (remember that while the chord progressions are the core of the song there are a lot of things going on as i'm not expanding on any melody right now).
So let's skip with the intro and start with the verse/chorus? i'm not sure how to call but it's the first thing that happens after the intro.
So we're in f major and except of doing the normal I/VI/II/V, Brian switched the 6th with the fourth so already we got something interesting here though it's still a very simple progressions.
So then in the 2nd part, it's DM7 (6th), only it has the 5th (A) on bass, then brian plays a CM7 (minor fifth of original scale which is also interesting) But this time he plays F on bass! this is just amazing, not only it creates a beautiful tension making the CM an 11th, but also it's a reference to the tonic and it sounds just incredible. And then to bring it back home and solve it, he plays once again a DM7/A but then instead of the CM, he plays and AM and then a two five progression to start another run of this entire development.
Then in the B part, The song Changes key to D major (the 6th of the previous tonic only with flatted three so now the relative minor became a major).
Starts with D7 to a G7 but then, he plays a F#M7 to BM7 which creates a very interesting sound, because it's very distinct from our original scale. But in the second time of this progression, to solve it and bring it back to the F Major and finish the song, he plays and F#7, to a C7! so he goes back to the dominant in beautiful fashion and now the only thing to do is go back to that F major and finish the song.
So you have him doing some beautiful bass work, uncovonational key change and then one of the most naturals return to the tonic. That's a lot more advanced than anything the beatles (which I love) or any other did untill 66. And that's just by analyzing the chord progression, that song has a lot more melodies and harmonies which are just as crazy!
David Gray
so?
Jordan Rivera
>I/IV/ii/V is an interesting progression
Jonathan Harris
btfo
also smile is the best album ever made and it wasn't even released. it pains me every day to think of what could have been
Aiden Wilson
I said it's just interesting replacing the 4th with the 6th and that it's still a simple progression you fucktard
Lincoln Kelly
beach boys fags are the most insufferable people on the planet fuck you all die a horrible death
Connor Morales
t. buttmad beatles fan
Jack Jenkins
How do you know he's "replacing" anything? How do you know he's not just using the 4th, with absolutely no reference to the 6th? Does he use I/vi/ii/V at any point earlier in the song?
blink-182's song Rollercoaster features the same progression, are they geniuses?
Josiah Martinez
Lots of drum set, tympani, and other percussion on Pet Sounds dude
You're probably just thrown off by Brian's aversion to using high-hats
Easton Nguyen
Do I have to post the meaning of "trend" either?
Xavier Martinez
progressions are literally the most irrelevant part of most music, its super rare that a new progression is used. it's like saying all jazz albums that use a ii-V-I are shit
the real genius is in the melodies and the arrangements
Jordan Fisher
I'm not arguing that, I'm just wondering why this dude thought I/IV/ii/V was interesting in any way. It's almost cliche in my book
Angel Wilson
there's a standard and typical chord progressed used all the time in jazz, of playing I/VI/II/V, so I thought it was interesting Brian choose to not use to obvious sound and replace the 6th with the 4th. It's nothing genius it's just a little interesting you dense motherfucker.
not sure how it's relevant
Michael Reyes
he literally clarified that it was a simple and common progression
Charles Sullivan
lol i hope you realise submediants and supertonics are almost always minor