What do you guys think of the statement, "if you can't play a physical instrument you're not a real musician"...

What do you guys think of the statement, "if you can't play a physical instrument you're not a real musician"? Are people who only know how to make music on the computer (beats for ex) on the same level than guitar or violin players? And yes I am aware people can do both, but I'm talking about those who are only computer musicians

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youtube.com/watch?v=PPLgXcxMEQc
youtube.com/watch?v=9-iR7tLSPj0
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youtube.com/watch?v=aE2GCa-_nyU
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if all you do is make shitty trap beats then no you're not a musician

it's just a "no true scotsman" innit?

I don't really see a difference. Composing music either via a physical instrument or computer makes you a "real musician".

Saying that , there isn't as much merit in combining samples to create a track rather than producing it all organically. I think it can really vary on the song. Non-electronic music doesn't by default have more "artistic merit" over electronic , in my opinion.

I think if you create an original work, you are a musician. There are talanted guitarists out there that play nothing but covers. They are not real musicians.

It's an incredibly pointless discussion full of inaccurate comparisons and based on taste and subjective interpretations of quality.

But in my opinion, no, the smelly nerd with an MPC who listened to Donuts twice and now takes chops of old piano recordings and poorly layers them with 808 drums is probably not on the same level as a conservatory trained musician who spent years practicing their instrument, learning theory and composition, and perfecting their craft.

>implying

I think that's pretty sad. Classical composers have written works entirely made of samples, but people reject it as "just noise", as if any odd sound makes a piece non-musical

saying that, have you ever tried implementing a sample into a track, or constructing a new song around one, anything of the sort?

i wish there was more heavily sample based music actually. all art is imitation, any melody has been played, intellectual property is kind of an absurd concept too

they don't play music

and many who do may not compose music. performing isn't a requierment of being a musician

This is silly. If you make good music, you make good music.

>intellectual property is an absurd concept

Look friend, maybe in 2000 years when no one needs to eat to survive you'll be able to dismiss intellectual property as absurd and unnecessary, but in this day and age, it's necessity is pretty obvious.

ALL INSTRUMENTS ARE REAL INSTRUMENTS

people ask did i go to music school and i say no, i went to music

why

Idiot.

What about singers?

a computer is a physical instrument, as is the human voice.

wrong

What do you define being a musician, then?

>If you use a computer instead of pen and paper you're not a real author

why do they allow this girl on the catalog? janitors please clean it up

so it's literally just welfare? kk

: a composer, conductor, or performer of music;

Butthurt guitarfag who can only play covers detected. Knowing how to play wonderwall doesn't make you a musician.

I think anyone who is able to create "music" in any shape or form is a musician. That includes people who haven't even mastered an instrument. Sure, they may not be a /great/ "musician" to me, but they make music and are therefore a musician.

Not him but unless i've misunderstood your opinion, in a whole orchestra there wouldn't be any musicians

>tfw i do most of my music with my computer but i'm a decent amateur jazz drummer so people can't use this argument
Still, i'll never be as good as squarepusher, feels bad

Except the instruments those people were playing took many years to master. You can go on the internet and in ten minutes you'll know a few chords. So while you're making music and technically are a "musician" do you honestly think that should be on the same level as someone who has mastered an instrument over the course of years?

I mean I sing so I naturally disagree with that

You're backpedalling

In what way? I said playing a few chords doesn't make you a true musician but practicing for years does. There isn't any backpedaling there.

these "levels" are imaginary anyways, and they dont really mean anything

theorectically, anyone could go on the internet and learn as much as one could in 10 years of studying any given instrument in much less time

Anybody who says that you aren't a real musician if you don't play an instrument is either
>old and doesn't understand that the world is progressing
>retard who has no idea how hard it is to actually produce music that is outside of regular trap beats (MBDTF and TPAB)

You don't play a computer, you write music on it. You are composing, not performing. It's perfectly possible to be a composer and not a musician. If you are using a computer for live performance using a keyboard or something, than you are a musician.

That's the strictest definition I think one can give.

>You don't play a computer
beg to differ

Nigger read the post

If I play harsh noise on this do I qualify as a musician

If you make music, you're a musician. You may not be an instrumentalist or you may not or may not be talented but you're a musician.

Forgot pic oops

As someone who composes music on both computers and physical instruments, I'd say it is true.

I hate classical, it's all covers

>Knowing how to play wonderwall doesn't make you a musician.
Yes it does, but it doesn't make them an artist.

Session musicians are musicians.

how are they not artists?

>how are they not artists?
Because they don't compose original work.

Art entails them contributing something new.

This
This
Fucking this. It's not hard to grasp.

their interpretation of a work is art

not particularly enjoyable, imo, but art

That wasn't clear dude

> There are talanted guitarists out there that play nothing but covers.
>ou can go on the internet and in ten minutes you'll know a few chords. So while you're making music and technically are a "musician" do you honestly think that should be on the same level as someone who has mastered an instrument over the course of years?

Whom of these are musicians, basing yourself only on the present videos ?
youtube.com/watch?v=PPLgXcxMEQc
youtube.com/watch?v=9-iR7tLSPj0
youtube.com/watch?v=1lOZQaj-AbY
youtube.com/watch?v=aE2GCa-_nyU :^)
To me, all are, some are just good ones or bad ones [spoiler]or tasteless ones[/spoiler]

Seems alright

Fine, then go to a painting workshop, pick out someone's "reinterpretation" of a Van Gogh, and call them an artist on the same level as the original and try to pass them off as such.

>caring about the means and not the output

They are artists.

They don't make very beautiful art, imo, but it's still art

>regular trap beats (MBDTF and TPAB)
triggered

Do you earn welfare?

I agree with this. You are still a musician, but you're not on the same level. You're bad and you should feel bad.

when you're bad and in denial. you're bad and you should feel bad.

If you've taken music lessons or collaborated in groups, you'd know that isn't true. Hands on is much easier.

record label shill

Tommy Tobasco is the only session musician who did it without training or knowledge of the craft. He butt fucked his way up.

It's literally the same shit as classical composition except that the composer of an electronic piece has fuller control over the timbre and performance of the piece.
And
>all these people saying that electronic musicians are not "on the same level" as musicians of instruments
Yeah I suppose DJ Shadow and Amon Tobin are less creative and worthwhile bunch of kids making sloppy three-chord punk in their garage because "muh real instruments". Most people aren't virtuosos and using a DAW is oftentimes harder than using a real instrument.

When a kid with FL thinks he's learned an instrument.

Read it again.

MBDTF and TPAB don't use regular trap beats if you still don't get it afterwards

Do you know what a conductor is? classical music is incredibly concise and controlled in the performance. just proves you don't know what you're saying. Orchestra musicians works 8 hour days too, perfecting music the way it was written to perfect the "artist's intent"

? I was saying that an electronic musician has a wider tonal and timbral palette to work with than a composer. This is not debatable.

You don't make the music if you make it on your computer. Your fucking computer makes it

Yeah you just push the button and get music it's not hard

>"I'm a MUSICIAN!"
>Sweet! What music do you make?
>"You know, techno, dance, dubstep. I use my computer to make music".
Sounds pretty stupid to me. If you make music on your computer, you're talentelss. Your computer is the talented in that case

>any melody has been played
And with this sentence, I knew he would always be a talentless hack.

oh, you weren't b8ing
k then

But if the computer makes it aren't you a good teacher ? You taught the computer to make music didn't you ? Other people's computers don't make music
Really makes you think...

beatmakers and prod stuff on daws arent musicians, theyre arrangers

Even if electronic music was easy to make (not true, by the way), that doesn't diminish the value of the music.
Johnny Ramone plays extremely simplistic three-chord guitar parts, is he not a real guitarist?

Nice bait senpai