Would you rather have technical guitar skills or songwriting talent?

Would you rather have technical guitar skills or songwriting talent?

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Songwriting talent easily

Fuck guitars

>guitar
talent please

Technical guitar skills make you that youtuber with only a couple thousand views per video who might be able to impress a few people by playing a track perfectly or through playing fast and clean.

But songwriting talent can bet you anywhere from cult status to millions of dollars to a spot in history itself.

guitar because i can't sing

I'd rather have improvisational ability. I hate following preconcieved structures and I'm already satisfied with my guitar skills. I'd rather pursue my interest in free improv music

Has there ever been an artist with both?

I'd rather have the ability not to think in binary patterns (you pedestrian)

i don't think i listen to any great players period. like if you look through my library there may not be a single person with serious technical musical skill. i'd be more interested in the question whether i'd rather be a great producer or a great songwriter, that one i would have to think about

Kurt Cobain

Technical skills means you can make a name for your self taking music other people wrote and making it your own. The best songwriting can do is let you become the ghost writer for that technical name guy.

Jimmy Page

come on yall don't be difficult

Wasn't he an awful guitar player?

Just stop being retarded goddamn

guitar to be honest

Nah he was average.

being technically good on guitar isn't a talent, it's a skill

And an awful songwriter

No it's well known Kurt was at least "good" he just never showcased it in Nirvana because grunge was all about muh sludgy and sloppy guhtar playing

Prince

I'd take songwriting talent, While technical skills on guitar that'll rival shredders today is fucking hard as balls to achieve, songwriting talent is far, far harder to learn

Not true, 9/10 Youtube guitarists play other peoples songs

Paul Gilbert/George Lynch

>songwriting talent is far, far harder to learn

>But songwriting talent can bet you anywhere from cult status to millions of dollars to a spot in history itself.

Your only kidding yourselves.

You're an idiot if you think great technical skills at one musical instrument is worth more or will take you further than the ability to compose songs

You're an idiot to think it's your place to call others idiots. And to delude yourself into actually believing that nonsense. It's the school's job to make you believe silly things, not your own.

I'm not sure whether your point is that learning an instrument is hard or that songwriting talent is easy

My point was that guitar skills are hard, but songwriting talent is much more of a situation of being able to get marginally better at what you do over time, while either starting in the situation of either being complete shit or incredibly good based on complete chance

Guitar is an equal playing field, it's always hard, but you're not handicapped randomly

this

it'd be a fairer comparison of it was being technically skilled at multiple instrument but songwriting is irreplaceable

Who is handicapped in songwriting? 90% of the work has been done for you by your predecessors. They aren't much help in developing your own sound with your instrument.

Literally what are standards

I'd rather have Full Circle by The Doors

Very very many. In fact those who are 'good' songwriters who don't have the musical skill to back it up also turn out to be shit songwriters on the global scale.

>Who is handicapped in songwriting
some people have a much harder time understanding how to do it properly than other, I'd call that a handicap

>90% of the work has been done for you by your predecessors
They laid the foundations with ideas like keys, modes, the chromatic scale, but that isn't what songwriting TALENT is

A talented songwriter can make a bad idea sound good
An untalented songwriter can make a good idea sound bad

elliott smith and nick drake were both phenomenal guitarists

I can probably write a good song right now, but I can't make my motor skills so much better. Plus, guitar skills are a lot more demonstrative than showing you can write well.

What? But that's exactly what I was getting at? How do you say not true then agree with me?

And 100% of the work is done for by your predecessors when it comes to technical skill especially since they are exactly what defines it.

There's no such thing as songwriting talent. All it takes to write music is study of other music. You literally have to have a learning disability to write a bad song. Playing a song badly is far easier.

Are you even reading what you wrote?

>there is no such thing as songwriting talent

I had a feeling this was just some subtle b8

Of course you do. You experience the Dunning-Kruger Effect like all failed musicians.

Not him but it makes complete sense

How can you argue that technical playing is any way not already laid out for the player

songwriting definitely

If it were then how are you not an accomplished trumpeter?

One could be if they wanted to be and practiced hard enough

What's your point

Shit, misread, 3:00 in the morning over here, my bad

>You literally have to have a learning disability to write a bad song
Okay, now this is going to be getting into the subjective nature of what someone thinks of as a bad song, but personally I'd call a mediocre song equally poor as a bad song, people care about a mediocre song as much as they care about a bad song

Most people ARE mediocre to poor which is why most musicians do go unheard of (Well that and networking anyhow)

>It was easy for me, therefore it was easy for you, even though apparently it isn't easy for you
This is what I got from that post, and I'm not going to lie, I'm rather confused

You don't even need to practice to write songs is my point. It's literally study and light problem solving. Instrument skills have to be honed, the sound created. A monkey could dictate what notes one were to play.

I meant the unskilled individual talking like an authority on the subject clause of the effect. "muh practice makes perfect" is simply not true; your being lazy is not why you failed. However if you can't even write a little ditty given that chords and modes have already been invented for you, I feel sorry for you and everyone in this thread.

Songwriting

You don't need to practice because most of the time songwriting ability is something that can be improved upon if you have the talent for it but as said most are mediocre or bad

That's why I'm saying having songwriting talent would be worth more to a musician

You keep projecting this failed musician thing when literally no one who has replied to you has even mentioned they make music

Songwriting talent for sure.

Songwriting. A mediocre guitar player who's decent at composition can still make an amazing song, because great music doesn't have to be all that complex. I know that's an unpopular opinion but whatever.

Narrow your scope to only those who have at least completed some basic music theory course. I can guarantee you most of your 'mediocre or bad' crowd haven't even done that, failing to meet the study requirement, not even expected to translate their thoughts into music.

Exactly. Butt out of matters about which you know nothing.

>However if you can't even write a little ditty given that chords and modes have already been invented for you, I feel sorry for you and everyone in this thread.

Talented = good music
Untalented = both mediocre and bad music

Sure I'd be able to write "a little ditty", but to make it truly good/interesting/overall worth listening to takes talent, and that's not exactly something that anyone can just straight up get, where learning an instrument is

>You don't even need to practice to write songs is my point. It's literally study and light problem solving. Instrument skills have to be honed, the sound created. A monkey could dictate what notes one were to play.
I don't think anyone has argued against the difficulty of learning an instrument, it is hard, but it is ALWAYS hard for everyone
True talent in songwriting is up to chance, what you have can be improved, but what you're given initially is still chance

You could be born naturally gifted and not have to work at all in order to create incredibly moving pieces of music
Or you could be born naturally untalented and work your entire life to create even one song worth listening to, if even that

You're engaging in a double standard without even knowing it. For the sake of the argument, if simple competence in songwriting can be dismissed as "mediocre" and unworthy of consideration, then can't the same be said of competence in playing? Among musicians, many are competent but only a few are remembered for the l their unique voice. Since you've already established that the barrier of competence in musicianship is high, I've established the barrier for competence in songwriting is low, and I'll state with the same level of evidence as either that there are far fewer exceptional musicians than songwriters, how could you possibly believe talent in musicianship is worth less than in songwriting?

Top memes fellas

Nick Drake, George Harrison

Nick Drake

>there are far fewer exceptional musicians than songwriters
youtube.com/watch?v=AnbxakZhdRA

Musicianship is an umbrella term that songwriting falls under. Playing guitar, or any instrument, is mostly muscle memory. Writing music can be simplified, there are formulas and common progressions you can follow. But i could write an amazing song without ever touching an instrument, thanks to computers. But if I'm an amazing guitarist who can't write, what good am i?

>muh muscle memory
Have you ever even picked up a guitar?

Just about every day for the past 11 years.

Then you should know how incredibly offensive it is to chalk up being an exceptional guitar player as a matter of muscle memory. Or you're just mediocre.

>2016
>playing mutilated violin

I don't care how offensive it is, it's the truth. The ability to play anything on guitar is a matter of practice, it's mostly a mechanical skill. The ability to create what you played, to come up with it on your own, is much harder.

Unless you think improvisation counts as songwriting and not musical skill, not at all. Go on, set your machine to play a basic I V vi IV and put something on top of it.

>creating original music off the top of your head
>not songwriting
Guitar is just the tool you use to make the notes come out, but if you're good at improv it doesn't matter what you use as long as you know how to play it. I would argue that's a separate talent, but i suppose we're agreeing on the main points.

source?

You don't write down or reuse lines you improvise. A songwriter has no vessel with which to improvise, a musician does.

How has no one mentioned lyricism yet? Lyrics dictate song structure. If you write generic lyric structures, your music will have to follow suit

How do you think people write songs? They just sit down and write out a melody on a staff?

Most of the time it starts with an idea in your head or something you played on an instrument and want to expand on. Good improv and songwriting are pretty much the same thing.

Also go listen to your favorite guitarist improv, they definitely reuse and revisit elements of past performance, it's what gives them a recognizable style.

>Lyrics dictate song structure.

t. never wrote a song.

Guitar skill, easily.

You can go to an open mic in a medium-sized city and see fine songwriting any night of the week, it's not rare. Now producing a good album or holding together a band long enough to do something with it is much different and involves a ton of work and babysitting. Having good songs is only a fraction of the battle.

A fairly talented guitar player is much rarer, and something you can enjoy more alone. Also, your chances of success are still comparable to the songwriter due to even established and developed bands wanting strong lead players and an instrumentalist's ability to hedge his bets with multiple projects.

Deaner I guess? I think that Gene does most of the songwriting itself though

Paul McCartney

negatives cancel, right?

underrated post

the solo in school is alright

I'd take songwriting talent any day. I'm already fairly good at piano, but I'm terrible at composing.

guitar because i already have songwriting talent :^^^^)

Fripp

>what is spiderland

but they wrote the lyrics as an afterthought senpai

Justin Trosper :^)

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