Joni Mitchell is one of the greatest songwriters and voices of all time and she definitely doesn't get the praise she...

Joni Mitchell is one of the greatest songwriters and voices of all time and she definitely doesn't get the praise she deserves around here

what's your favorite Joni album? Hejira is mine. Absolutely fucking brilliant stuff.

THREAD MUSIC:
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pitchfork.com/features/lists-and-guides/9015-the-top-100-tracks-of-2012/?page=10
rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/single/2012
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

bump

she's up there with the best for me.

dwarfs every other singer-songwriter (not enmeshed in a band) so easily it's almost embarrassing. who else could possibly compare?

favorite album for me is kind of impossible. probably Clouds or Blue.

i marathoned most of her discography back in february, i would have to listen to them again but i remember liking blue the most. my least favorite was definitely don juan's reckless daughter.

i don't think there's enough people who like her on here to have a general though, she's really underappreciated.

agreed my friend, I consider her to be without a doubt the best female musician ever and one of the greats of the 20th century. she's an excellent guitarist too which I don't think enough people recognize. I absolutely love her folk stuff but lately I've been super into her jazzier stuff with Hejira, Mingus, and Don Juan's Reckless Daughter. she does jazz as good as anyone and has an amazing voice for it.

youtube.com/watch?v=e8ZESu3BpPA
youtube.com/watch?v=2AavxMdFiZo

the feeling of this one just tears me to pieces

i'm gonna be so sad when she dies

Hissing of Summer Lawns

Joanna Newsom is the only person better/even as good as her

exactly why she needs a general she deserves all the praise in the world and i know there are a couple people left here that still have good taste

Don't make me laugh

the only other female musician I see as her equal and utterly revere - who has a genius and specialness distinct from Joni's so I feel no need to really compare them - is Elizabeth Fraser of Cocteau Twins

i love joanna to death but she has a long fucking way to go before you can put her in the same conversation as joni

Elizabeth fraser is amazing

okay im not demanding you to believe she's better outright. but Joanna Newsom is as good as anybody ever

you can't be unbiased and not know that. I don't like Animal Collective at all (other than their meme singles) but i know they're one of the best bands ever.

>Animal Collective one of the best bands ever
Don't make me laugh

there's a droning thing to Joni's style of singing and playing sometimes... a 'breath' / spirit - like described in Coleridge's Eolian Harp - in how she uses strings - and she holds words and sounds in a way that weaves through the song like Celtic patterning

dude i'm a huge joanna fan and i think shes probably most comparable artist to joni in our era but joni was miles ahead of her currently and much more versatile. plus she only has a handful of albums so far so it's not really fair to compare them just yet. i would love to see her take the route of moving on from folk stuff and experimenting more like joni did

...and that's why we don't have Joni threads here.
They always get derailed by Joanna fags.

brilliant as Joanna might be in her own way, she doesn't have the height nor depth of genius and intelligence Joni has. and that's not at all to say that Joanna isn't obviously extremely gifted and intelligent.

yeah fuck that, this thread is about joni if you wanna talk about someone less talented than her than just make a fucking joanna thread

agreed.

anyways, this song rules:
youtube.com/watch?v=orHM7XOI1QI

Joni is one of those people who just destroy the stupid argument that talent/giftedness/genius doesn't exist

Let's keep this on topic

If someone put a gun to your head and asked you to name your favorite Joni track what would it be?

For me either Song For Sharon or Help Me
but if you ask me in a week my answer would definitely be different

Canada's finest

this is probably my favorite song ever:

youtube.com/watch?v=4NdsnFZm0X4

she's so fucking amazing, one of a kind talent that is truly one in a million

this is my answer, not just hers but by anyone:

I fucking adore her

She really knew how to pick good musicians to play with her too. Herbie Hancock, Jaco Pastorious, Larry Carlton I mean come the fuck on

Her guitar work on Hejira is incredible. Exactly how I love clean electric guitar to sound paired with some beautifully creative chord progressions.

this is an example of the droning/weaving thing she sometimes does with her voice:

youtube.com/watch?v=Vt2pceRSUMU

it's almost getting into Coltrane 'sheets of sound' territory

I guess it's kind of like raga too; spiritual / devotional / exultational singing

god she is so good

youtube.com/watch?v=26LYjMww0GY

She's gonna die soon.

:(

xD

you'll always, ALWAYS, be talentless :DDD

she is so so qt


also I hate that CS&N can't clap on time

Eex deeeeeeee

Without getting all SJW about it, why isn't she a popular icon like Dylan or Bowie? She's got equal talent, she's attractive.
The only reasons I can think of is she's a woman, and some of her stuff is more 'difficult' and less accessible to plebs

Hejira is good

Blue has some great tracks, some I can't stand.

For The Roses is underrated

'without getting all SJW about it' is like the new no homo

Tin Angel is probably my favorite track of hers, hell, favorite track of 1969 even

Clouds thru Summer Lawns is an impeccable streak of top tier albums, too

she sang about breakups incessantly

she was seen as promiscuous

her later material weren't mainstream friendly

and yes, because she is a woman

maybe also because she retired from music, but her music is just not as accessible as bowie and Dylan.

i'm guessing you wear berets and livein umm portland, and are definitely in the dramatic arts in yr high school.

Taylor Swift jazz phase when?

>She's up there with the best for me.
I totally agree. She played with Jaco Pastorius. I think that alone is enough to determine how great of a musician you really are.

her live album Miles of Aisles is top notch. as far as studio material goes i'm torn between Blue and The Hissing of Summer Lawns

You're forgetting about Grimes. Way better and creative than both Mitchell and Newsom. The latter 2 sound like any standard singer songwriter, nothing special sonically.

I've seen hundreds of concerts in my day, and gave Grimes two shots. she is easily among the worst concerts I've ever seen. an uninspired, disconnected, spastic mess on stage, and never performs for more than 20 minutes, even when headlining her own show (that is, I'm not even talking about a festival situation the second time)

also, her new album is garbage.

>muh bleeps and bloops
>more sonically interesting
Back to your containment general

That was then. She's much, much better live now. Watch her Glastonbury performance if you don't believe me. As for her latest album, it's really great. Because you're a pleb you can't get into it.

>muh bleeps and bloops
>more sonically interesting
Indeed. Name a song by Joni Mitchell as good & as sonically interesting as this youtube.com/watch?v=qsbiyvpel54

That's me downloading her discography then. Nice thread.

Please come back when Grimes has actually worked with someone like Jaco Pastorious or has made anything that's actually played on real instruments and not FL Studio or sampled drums.

People can't get into a generic, bubblegum pop album? Interesting concept...

>jazz hipster
Excuse me, but Grimes did all her music by herself. Everything from production to artwork. You're not impressing me by throwing some names like Pastorious. She doesn't need anyone to achieve her goal.

>that's actually played on real instruments and not FL Studio or sampled drums.
>REAL INSTRUMENTS
Oh, so you're a mega pleb that believes that synths and samplers aren't instruments? Wake up grand dad, it's the 21st Century. Everything that makes a sound could be an instrument.

Except it isn't:
1. generic - there's nothing like it. Prove me wrong.
2. bubblegum pop - you're confusing her cute vocals for bubblegum pop. You're wrong. Her latest album has classical inspired songs like the intro and Life in the Vivid Dream, a raging screaming tune named Scream, a country influenced song named California, an electro ballad named Realiti, a dance frenzy tune with industrial undertones named Kill V Maim, an electro banger like Artangels, and so on. It's a diverse album for anyone with an ear for good melody. If you prefer boring ass folk music, well, it's your problem.

And don't even get me started about her older work, which is much werider and experimental.

>Some names like Jaco Pastorius
Some names... You're not a musician, are you?
>Oh, so you're a mega pleb that believes that synths and samplers aren't instruments? Wake up grand dad, it's the 21st Century. Everything that makes a sound could be an instrument.
The problem with musicians becoming more and more dependent on computers to make music is that less and less talent is required to create music. And that's why it's so easy to blend in - just do what the industry does and appeal to the lowest common denominator. Forget about creativity and the actual talent, because those won't get you anywhere. And that's why we have so many mediocre or just plain bad musicians getting praised. And it's not like it hasn't happened before and it surely is happening again and again. Remember Milli Vanilli? The guys who got a Grammy, without actually singing on their own records...

She played guitar bass and violin on the newest album.

So, I must be a musician to know about him? It's no wonder that the so called musicians on Sup Forums are the most pretentious suckers in the universe. You're failed musicians at best, all theory and zero results.

I get what you're saying cuz I'm a musician. But Grimes is a musician 3rd, and a songwriter and producer 1st and 2nd, those elements are much more important to her music. No her writing is not as academic as Joni Mitchell but that's not what she's going for at this point in her career at least.

>Pop
>Experimental, weird
The genre of music almost exclusively made in order to gain popularity and make as much money as possible. There are actually talented and great pop musicians, but we're not exactly talking about Kate Bush, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston or Amy Winehouse here, are we?

You obviously don't have to be a musician to know about him or any other truly great musicians, but I'm not sure how exactly do you praise Jaco, Weather Report and I assume jazz in general, but also praise mainstream mediocre pop stars. And as I've said, I know that there are actually talented pop artists - Phil Collins, Amy Winehouse, Mariah Carey, Michael Jackson, Kate Bush. The only one that gets talked about and praised here is Kate Bush, apart from all the other kpop and other mediocre pop stars...

Grimes makes music from her heart. Many of her songs are from her past experiences (Oblivion, David and Devon for instance). She's a legit singer songwriter producer. The same person is able to make something really out there like Omega (listen to it, it's a small song) and something super catchy like Realiti.

>Kate Bush, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston or Amy Winehouse
She's way above these mainstream big label artists regarding talent and skills. She's basically a one woman band.

"All romantics meet the same fate someday, bitter and drunk, and boring someone in some dark cafe."

The Last Time I Saw Richard is probably the weakest song on Blue in terms of lyrics and sound, but to me it's the most emotionally raw and long lasting, where the other songs are primarily about the pain of some temporary fling breaking up. Except Little Green.

>She's way above these mainstream big label artists regarding talent and skills. She's basically a one woman band.
Pop music is inherently mainstream, so, that argument doesn't actually mean anything.
>She's way above Kate Bush, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston or Amy Winehouse
I'm done here.

I agree with you, I'd put Joanna on the same level as her. Both are right up there at the top with Dylan and Van Morrison for me as greatest of all time.

>Pop music is inherently mainstream, so, that argument doesn't actually mean anything.
Experimental pop is not mainstream. How it's a song like this youtube.com/watch?v=hy3FPRaeW3Y mainstream? This is weirder than anything by Kate Bush, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston or Amy Winehouse.

where do i start with joni

Not necessarily because she was a woman, but because she had very feminine sounding songs. Keep in mind that in our society it's completely acceptable for women to listen to masculine music, but generally unacceptable for men to listen to feminine music. A man listening to a woman singing about break ups and sad romance in slow, sweet songs was seen as faggy, especially back then.

Blue imo.

youtube.com/watch?v=Lm39YkGrHp8

i'm listening to clouds for the first time right now. finding it comparable it nico in it's channeling a very ancient mode of delivering music through a modern context. cool shit, very powerful.

>The problem with musicians becoming more and more dependent on computers to make music is that less and less talent is required to create music.
So, do you really think music writes itself if you're using technology? That's narrow minded thinking. Just try to make a world class hit in Ableton and see if it's that easy. Technology allows more possibilities, new sounds, new textures. You just can't make a song like this youtube.com/watch?v=iqR6EolWARE using acoustic instruments no matter how you would try. It's a different kind of music talent required.

Let's actually what is actually possible with technology and instruments:
youtu.be/fxfU2oe0gK0
youtu.be/66BaISKDkpI
You see how computers are not mandatory for performing both live and in the studio and for creating unique and really out there music?

The first clip sounds like classical music. Nothing new, it has been done before tons of times. And the second one it's a progressive rock song like Ozric Tentacles. They're really pretty normal sounding.

I'm talking about a whole song made with synths and samplers. Computers (or at least hardware synths) are mandatory if you want new exciting sounds. You just can't have the atmosphere and the sonic textures of songs like
youtube.com/watch?v=5oqxz6hpGbs
youtube.com/watch?v=m5H-YlcMSbc
youtube.com/watch?v=iiUt6Ad3LHI
without those instruments. You just can't.

How young are you that you think the songs you posted are stuff that hasn't been done before tons of times?

Nice try insulting me by playing the age card. I'm actually pretty old (20s). You're totally wrong: songs like these have never been done before. I listened to a shitload of synthpop and I know what I'm talking about. If you're going to disagree with me better post some similar songs to those posted by me.

Where's the actual human element in the music you like? It's very detached in my mind. Sure, you can get new sounds, but so can anyone else who bought an audio engineering software. It's just not recognizable and unique. For example, if you hear Django playing - you'll just know it's him. And if you hear an electric guitar player like Fripp or Holdsworth - you'll immediately know it's them because of their unique styles. You just can't get the same experience listening to drum samples. To add to that - you know what is really important about a live performance? Not to be a jukebox. It's important to make a different performance every night and to make the audience you're playing to hear songs played ''differently'' than on the albums.

>I'm actually pretty old (20s)

Go to more nightclubs kid. Nothing new under the sun
youtube.com/watch?v=aPn3z1-mWAI

You care too much about artist and external context than the actual music. The actual music is what really matters, not who it was made or who made it.

>It's important to make a different performance every night and to make the audience you're playing to hear songs played ''differently'' than on the albums.
Except it's not. What if deliver a great set one day and a shit set the next day? Would that be fair to those that paid tickets for your second set? Also not everyone could see your live performances in a row, so better make sure the new audiences don't miss anything from your show. That's why all big artists have fixed setlists with some small changes here and there.

Get outta here you poser hipster.
This is grown folks music.

Git

I asked you for similar songs, not a house/trance mix that has nothing to do with Grimes' synthpop. I'm afraid you're just a pleb that can't differentiate the electronic music genres and everything with a synth sounds the same (like everything with a guitar would be punk).

So I'm asking you again: similar songs to those I already posted. I really want to hear them.

Please Fuck off out of here butcher.
You look like a coke head that would break if I fucked you too hard.

You have no arguments, so you started insulting like a jackass. You lost.

Joni

I wasn't referring to set lists. I was referring to the actual performance, which should be unique every time. I care about the artist and not about the looks. I agree that the actual music matters, but again, you can't really praise someone for using drum samples, when there are many other musicians doing the exact same thing. Drum loops are fine for a musician who's recording himself in a home studio and just wants to make his ideas into songs and an album for himself. I don't think Grimes is a household name yet, but her being somewhat obscure doesn't really mean that she's doing something really groundbreaking.

Dude, I just got here and found your shit.
I'm not giving that shit anymore attention and neither should anyone.
This is a Joni thread, not wannabe eccentric bourgeois bullshit. Go hang out at a cafe like some bobo trash and talk about poverty like you grew up in it, you social progressive you

I'm glad to see this thread, Joni is great. I love Hejira and Blue and I'm proud that my birthday it's the same day as her. It's silly because that doesn't make any difference in my life or make me as talented as her, but fuck it.

Why don't you just admit your waifu has obvious influences?
I suppose progressive house is a bit too much for a synth pop babby like you, maybe this is more your level
youtube.com/watch?v=WsO7bx161jA

She always tries new arrangements of her songs. There's also some live guitar and syndrums (electronic drums hit live), besides her singing. Also she plays some synth riffs live and manipulates some samples and her own voice through vocal pedals for various effects. Her shows aren't identical.

>but her being somewhat obscure doesn't really mean that she's doing something really groundbreaking.
Only time will tell. I think she's doing something groudbreaking, something that only she could have done it.

This thread highlights what's wrong with things. Joni Mitchell praise turns into "nuh uh, muh bleep bloop"
Fuck dudes, why can't we appreciate some Fucking music without your bullshit. This is why I stab hipsters, they're beyond pretentious. I hope you trolls get stabbed

Stop fanning the flames!!!

>your waifu
How about your waifu Joni?

>has obvious influences?
Every artist has influences. It matters how you use these influences to make something new.

>youtube.com/watch?v=WsO7bx161jA
>implying that cheesy deep house remix of an already cheesy Madonna song is anything close to the best song of 2012, Oblivion

>the best song of 2012, Oblivion

>this is what Grimes waifuists actually believe.

What do you think of The Jungle Line?

Not only the Grimesfans. These folks too:

pitchfork.com/features/lists-and-guides/9015-the-top-100-tracks-of-2012/?page=10

rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/single/2012

Does Ultra Light Beam remind anyone else of Shadows and Light from Hissing of Summer Lawns?