>there are "musicians" on this board RIGHT NOW who can't read music
>there are "musicians" on this board RIGHT NOW who think music theory is optional
>there are "musicians" on this board RIGHT NOW who think their "art" is art
How do we combat this creative anarchy? Non-musicians or non-theory fags need not reply.
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your full of shite
This argument will never be relvant thanks to the beatles
But i am gud musikman
Post some of the "art" you've produced OP. I haven't heard anything good for a long while and I have good faith in you.
EDM producers, rappers and singer/songwriters think that "true art" comes without any technical study, this is probably due to the overall degradation of culture in America and west Europe
it's unlikely to blow over unless a certain genre or method that actually requires study and/or practice becomes popular again
Get rid of them
>muh static binary states of mind
gtfo loser
If one is really thinking about music and finding out about music on his own he can master both
also the classic way of writing music is overrated, since there are daws and shit which can let you do that shit much easier
Also:
>Scales starting with c not with a
which fucking retard made this up actually, when I found out that you can start with a going up to g it fucking made my mind up about theory, also: >b is written h in europe so if you look at "c d e f g h a" you fucking think that this shit can only be major retarded
fuck your exclusive faggot club
t. playing activelly since ca. 4 Months and already found out about the blues key and root notes without looking up any theoretical works
TL;DR if one has talent for this shit he'll find out about theory step by step by himself
>This argument will never be relvant thanks to the beatles
Or Clapton, Slash, Hendrix, Eddie Van Halen, Lionel Richie, Michael Jackson, Nirvana, etc.
You can pretty much make a list of the top 20 most successful musicians of the 20th century and odds are good that they could not read sheet music.
>Being a musician for more than 10 years
>not being able to read sheet music
So they were retards?
>h
Rock stars and pop icons are neither teachers nor students, and they come from a generation where it was normal for musicians to learn songs by ear.
Why would they ever need sheet music if they could just memorize the notes by listening to a record a few times? Hendrix was performing "Sgt peppers lonely hearts club band" within days of the albums release.
Music theory is good for communication with other musicians. Reading music is mostly useful for classical/ big band stuff.
That said being able to easily tell someone exactly how you want them to play something just using words is extremely time saving and generally good.
Boring AF to learn though,
Yeah but... wtf
Their main profession is musician so you gotta learn at least some basics
I mean yeah I'm more of a practic myself but without learning some theory... ahh whatever I do believe that those people were only actors anyway/ bait to lure people into coming to the usa in hope to get a superstar and shit, false role models...
I mean there is some good music made by them but I just don't trust americans at all because all of your shit is shallow and fake
Forgot to add Jazz and Blues. They were even less musically literate than the rock stars who followed. Buddy Rich and Tony Williams were musically illiterate.
The blues legends were in the same boat. Part of it had to do with race. Black musicians tened to grow up poor and had less access to formal music education and they just learned to play by picking up the instruments.
Yes, although I can't back to past and ask them myself, I do believe that, on the other hand there also were tons of blues and jazz musicians who were not musically illiterate as thelonius monk, miles davis, coltrane etc
Not to forget sun ra which actually knew more about music theory than mozart
>Yeah but... wtf
>Their main profession is musician so you gotta learn at least some basics
Why? They can make the sounds they want and can perform them naturally or improvise at will.
So Sun Ra is objectively better than Mozart?
hahaaa nice bait
ahh, nigga... I fucking found out about theory by accident although I'm a bloody beginner and you can't tell me that they did not know anything
>Cobain not knowing anything about theory
NIGGA PLEASE.
Vaporwave was a mistake.
why do you do that?
By your logic Jimi Hendrix is a shitty musician, so you simply have autism. Have a nice day and fuck off.
I make harsh noise so whatever
Ha, and i thought i'd get some decent discussion out of this thread.
Welp guess not.
You're right about sheet music but horribly, horribly wrong about theory. If all it takes is an arbitrary decision that C is the beginning of the no-accidental major scale instead of A (which is the beginning of the no-accidental minor scale, as you'd find out if you took a goddamn minute to learn something new) then music is probably not for you.
Music is fucking full of arbitrary decisions that you will never be able to escape as long as you keep wanting to play music. Why do you think individual notes have the pitches they do instead of being slightly flat or slightly sharp? What about the other infinite number of pitches that we don't provide ways to play on piano or on a fretted instrument? The reason why we have the note system we do is intrinsic to music theory and understanding and being able to reproduce music. There's a fucking reason why nobody who has learned music theory says "I don't need it for what I do in music". The only people who say that are the people who never bothered to learn and so have no idea about all the stuff going over their head. The insulting thing is that you're still dependent on it: if you play guitar, did you ever consider why the tuning difference between strings is what it is? It was a conscious decision made with knowledge of theory to make chords easier, and if you look at non-chordal string instruments, like violin, you'll find they tune differently because they don't give a shit about that.
Have fun figuring it out on your own, I guess. You'll only be missing out on the entire fucking point.
>>Cobain not knowing anything about theory
According to his biographer Cobain barely knew the names of the chords he was playing but he understood at least the basics of song structure. He was the smart one in the band.
Grohl readily admits that the theory stuff flies over his head.
Jokes on you, I've got over 100 years of living left so facing the fact that I just started getting interested with this shit I'm very optimistic, thank you for
>music is probably not for you ,
I will consider it facing myself playing like a fucking god as it was nuffin like I already do.
Nigga, relax. Just link me some good DRY and OBJECTIVE literature or whatever and I'll be fine.
Tell me the notes of the minor A scale so I can compare it with things I found out myself.
Also: What can you tell me about using black keys only + A and D of the white ones? What does that shit mean? I noticed some coherence or relativity there, I just called it the "blues key" because when I'm plaing that scale it sounds like some boogie shit and the key rows look like a key or something. I actually never bothered to learn about this shit because here in europe the scale goes cdefgah which seemed stupid to me first without any logic there and when I learned about it in school I wasn't playing an instrument yet so I didn't even bother.
Also: Why can't we just name the first key just A, because that tone is a standard as a first key? the minor scale shit is kinda underground so I'll just'd suggest that it would be better to change that. I mean, I'ts probably made to keep certain people away but yeah.
thanks for the graphic I love autistic shit like that
learning theory can be good but if you do it because you have no music inside of you and expect it to put it there, you'll just end up bitter and making threads like this rather than making music
I get where you're coming from
but in another way there are some times i wished i was les "schooled" in music. To be able to just fucking do it without having been told "This it how you do music" is a pretty cool thing. Which may very well contribute to many self taught big artists have their unique way of doing things.
Good post
I was of the opinion that music theory was just an extra, irrelevant to the quality of the music one could compose. Growing up though i began to realise more and more of what makes great music great, plus i started getting bored of the same patterns you inevitably get trapped in figuring stuff on your own. Music theory gives you much much more options, drastically cuts the time needed to progress a composition and allows instant and more meaningful communication with other musicians.
I refuse to believe that
A """"""""musician""""""""" who can't read music is like a writer who can't read at all
The important thing in any scale is the separation between individual notes.
There are two types of separations between notes: a whole step and a half step. A whole step means go up or down 2 notes, and a half step means go up or down only 1. The reason for the names is that whole steps are much more common and much "safer" sounding. If you go up by a half step in a place where it doesn't conform to the scale you'll get a sound outside of the scale. Not bad at all, of course, but not traditionally "safe".
The major scale is, starting from any note, the pattern W W h W W W h where W is a whole step and h is a half. Because we use the equal temperament tuning system you can start on literally any note and build a scale from there. All other scales are more or less adaptions of this scale; the minor scale, for example, lowers the 3rd, 6th and 7th notes of the scale ( the note you start on being the 1st.) If you did this starting on C, you would have to use black keys, but if you start it on A you can do the pattern using only white keys. This is because of the concept of Modes which you can look up on your own if you like; they're important, but major and minor are by far the most important.
When you play only the black keys, you're playing a pattern called the pentatonic scale, which for reasons I don't remember is the scale that every culture on Earth found out about independently. Start playing it with the black note just above F. If you go all the way with this, you are playing a major scale with the 4th and 7th degree cut out. Coincidentally (except not really) those are the most dissonant notes you can use when building a chord, because they are only a half step away from a much more stable chord tone so your ear will want them to go to the safer note.
If you play the black keys starting on the black key just above D, you get the minor pentatonic scale, which is the same as the minor scale but with the 2nd and 6th degrees cut out.
> he fell for the music "theory" meme
Reminder that Brian Eno doesn't know how to read music.
Fair enough, I feel that sometimes too. I think the important thing is once you've learned enough you have to think application wise: am I going to use this, if so how, and if it doesn't fit with the sound I'm going for I can ignore it for now.
Continuing the minor pentatonic thing, that's the blues scale. What you're doing with the A and the D added in is giving a transition note, which is something pretty common in the blues. Those notes are not technically in the scale, but because they have notes in the scale on either side they can pull in either direction and provide that sort of "gliding" feel. You generally wouldn't end a song, or even a phrase on those notes unless you wanted the dissonance they provide, but they are good options to go to if you want the soulful dissonant sound.
Whoa thanks dude.
Ah yeah I knew it
thanks dude, I don't have any knowledge I could give you in exchange so here have some bitches.
Music theory isn't optional, it's entirely unnecessary unless you want to make shitty formulaic music that's already been done before like all other plebs.
/thread
No problem, man. I think the trap people fall into is that music theory is hard, because it is full of arbitrary decisions that people made hundreds of years ago and are only preserved today because it's what people are used to. It's one of those things you have to hit your head against over and over again, and it won't make sense at all until the moment where it makes complete sense and you have to remind yourself that other people don't know it.
The good news is that I'm a complete newfag as well with this stuff, in objective terms. I've only known any of this for about a year and a half. You can learn all this stuff in that amount of time easily, and then you have the rest of your life to learn stuff that neither of us know or understand yet about music. It's a life journey.
Tom Morello is one of the few self trained rock stars who actually went back and learned sheet music later in life.
He said he felt embarrassed as a musician being unable to read music. It didn't necessarily affect his songwriting but it was a personal goal.
>Implying that some of that people can't read music.
roll
Dumb weeaboo
Contrary to popular belief, music theory is here to help you, not make things more complicated. It's good to learn it anyway just for the sake of being able to write down your shit.
>>Implying that some of that people can't read music.
None of them could read music and they are not alone. Add Stevie Ray Vaughn and David Gilmore to that list.
>people spend centuries finding out shit for him
>he'd rather keep reinventing wheels
hahaha kind of
I remember my first attempts of converting music to mathematical formulas while not having a fucking clue what I'm doing (kind of invented a method which lets you extrapolate an infinite amount of measures of chords using only one root note) and facing the improvements I've experienced during this year I guess I'm going to drown in this shit
A poster whose quads are ignored, is like a thunder storm that leaves no trace behind
Also I tried to sell that formula to some faggots for 10 grand in the mu-facebook group but thats an other story lol
I only bothered to learn sheet music and advanced theory for drums and since I found it so pointless because it was easier to find the song and learn it by ear then try and find sheet music for random songs that I never bothered it for guitar
.>posts bait
>expects actual dsicussion
Music Theory is fucking stupid as shit but I spent countless weeks studying it so people would shut the fuck up about it when I bring up my music. Art is subjective, so if you don't think it is art then that's you and whoever else alone.
>needing to read music to make music
xd
>Eddie Van Halen was clasically trained like his brother
>Miles Davis taught Hendrix theory
Roll for that sexual Vladimir
How do I start on learning basic music theory?
Start small. Learn the order of the notes and the scales. Work your way up from there. Piano/keyboard is a good way to start.
>>Eddie Van Halen was clasically trained like his brother
Eddie claims he only learned the basics from his piano teacher and bluffed his way through music lessons by playing by ear and by watching his instructors fingers.
He was never able to grasp sheet music (although his brother could) and even in 2012 in an interview in esquire magazine he was still unable to read it.
Miles did give jimmy some pointers on sheet music but even in April 1970 it was mentioned in his biography that he left some sheet music in the studio for Jimmy to work with. If Jimmy ever did learn to read music it would be in the months right before his death.
>thinking music is art