Will we see a day where videogames surpass music as a artform?

Will we see a day where videogames surpass music as a artform?

Well I have more fun playing video games so I suppose it already has.

videogames are not art, which is actually a good thing because """""""art"""""" in bourgeois society is mostly trash

lol no

videoganes have the potential to be art but the people who make videogames are huge pussies who don't take the medium seriously

also not to mention that the people who play them aren't any better

fuck off

Some games already surpass music as art.

No. Video games are not art by definition. Same reason television isn't art.

this

I will never say games are art because of shit like shit

This

>a day when video games surpass any medium whatsoever as an artform
>coming
>ever

They've already surpassed film, if you don't believe me just look at the current state the film industry is in.

Your average capeshit is still a hundred times more intelectually stimulating and more artistic that the best video games released today, and by god do I hate capeshit.

90% of video game developers have 0 creativity and make shit generic games

art doesn't have to be fun

nobody is actually this retarded

yeah but that 10% tho

>mount and blade
>elder scrolls
>fallout 1-NV
>GTA
>etc

well music isn't even art while video games already have been for decades so it's going to have to catch up.

>They've already surpassed film

LMAO

Even fucking Captain America does a better job at exploring modern trends in surveillance and military corruption than fedoracore "intellectual and philosophical" shit like Metal Gear. Most of your "cult classic games" are plot driven, yet they're all ripoffs of other medium i.e. Deadly Premonition being Twin Peaks for reddit instead of tumblr.

And then, are you really so stupid that you think only modern film exists? Name me one, just one, video game that manages to be as emotionally, intellectually, and visually stimulating as any Dreyer or Tarkovsky flick (and they aren't even very good!).

everything is relative. u really think one artform is better than the other? that's imprisoning

>Western games
>"""good"""

>a game, at its core, is a set of rules
>art has rules, apparently, since you all know the definition of art it seems
>art is a game

there now fuck off

>weab shit

Don't you have a k-pop thread to be posting in?

Japanese games have objectively better game design than western.

It doesn't take a weeb to figure that out.

Video games cannot be art because of interaction, objectives, rules, limits etc. They are just entertainment. I want underage to fuck off

jesus fuck, you might was well have written

>haha yea the top 10 percent of music is so creative and artful, there's
>taylor swift
>21 pilots
>drake
>justin beiber
>etc

your western dogshit is pop gaming designed by jews so that even the most braindead prole can understand them. kys

>Video games cannot be art because of interaction
>he's never studied performance art

>objectively

why not provide an actual argument instead of just meme words?

>A=A
wow tautologies are games too! literally everything ever is a game! what a wonderfully useful definition

Performance art is cringey shit and is not art.

>using buzzwords to justify your argument
Shadow of the Colossus and Silent Hill 2

Bloodborne
Resident Evil 4
Devil May Cry 3
Super Mario 64
Ico

All masterworks that the west has never matched up to.

>I don't like this art so its not art
That's just your opinion man

Yes, symbolic logic IS a really retarded game for retards (like you)

imagine being such an uber fucking pleb to think that these two games are the zenith of emotional depth

If you enter a game world and fall through the world or go through a wall because of a glitch, or see a missing texture because you're not supposed to look at it from a certain angle, it ruins the immersion. It cannot be setup in a way that you don't break it somehow, unless it's severly limited in its interaction like walking simulators which might as well not be games due to how fucking mind-numbingly boring they are. Interaction HAS to be entertaining, otherwise it can fuck right off

The funniest part about this post is that you probably haven't played them.

...

If you believe that you're an idiot

I really don't understand your point

Music and video games are both pretty low tier art t b h

Play the games first before you post.

i always thought that Sup Forums was a little bit smarter than the rest of Sup Forums's media boards, (v, tv, etc.), but i don't come here much b/c i don't know much about music.

today i discover i was wrong, ur all dumbshits

This
Most music isn't art, the same goes for film, and only 1% of vidya could be classed as art.

Games have set rules that can't be broken or it shatters the "art" that the programmer or designer or whoever has set up.

Walking simulators like Gone Home and Dear Esther might as well be short films since all you ever do is walk around and look at stuff, there's nothing contained within those games that couldn't be portrayed in maybe 1/2 TV episodes or a short 40 minute film.

what do you think makes something art user

Seriously, videogames have been a thing since arguably 50 or so years. Music has been a thing since more than ten thousand years.
Videogames seriously still has ways to go and at times I feel that even the best games ever made are still shit and not worth your time compared to almost all other forms of entertainment.

Interaction breaks immersion
Interaction can only not break immersion if it's severely limited
Limited interaction is not fun

good rebuttal

I want to deconstruct it and analysis each part of it, so that I can get the larger picture.

wow lol your a tiny dude and you climb big monsters lol so artistic and unique damn literally every other art form completely btfo man im glad im a #gamer

What does this even mean?

I can analyze and deconstruct an NFL game, does that make it art?

Anything can be art

bugs in games don't ruin immersion anymore than glitches in any other art form.

does a crappy studio recording/production or lo-fi music ruin "immersion"? or movies with a visible film grain? or a theater show when a set change doesn't go 100% right?

focusing on technical artifacts that result from the process of making art is silly

>posting HR and not the original
kys

Your Brain on Postmodernism (TM)

The original is a great video game, but HR is closer to being art.

I don't agree with that. That may be true for older games that were fucking wonky 90% of the time, but a lot of games nowadays are polished enough that you never see the cracks in the game world.
Not to forget that videogame technology is still really infantile, I see literally no reason why technological improvements shouldn't allow games to be both more open and more robust.

I mean games in 3d have been a thing for just over 20 years now.

well, i don't think most of the Sup Forums folks itt have played many games, or at least any good ones (which is also true for Sup Forums, to be honest)

this thread is dumb for the same reason that you wouldn't go into /ck/ and ask people how to build a computer

Nice strawman

How so

thanks I made it myself :)

Oh. I disagree. I don't really think immersion is a good criteria for judging any artform because there's always going to be glitches, or stuck pages, or missing scenes, or the DVD player skips or w/e. All art would fail if it was about how far away from reality it can take you, although some art does this well. Art is supposed to be fun?

Arguably video games have less rules than other artforms because while you can read some books or watch some movies in multiple ways, ultimately you're gonna watch it one way and read it one way. With Gone Homo, you can most approach the situation as you want.


I don't think he knows what he's talking about or he's trolling me idk

yikes, a classicist

It's different because of many reasons. Software can have so many issues with other software and especially with hardware. You can encounter a game-breaking bug that isn't your fault, but just because of drivers or OS or game's poor programming etc. That's not the same as film grain and audio cracking (which are sometimes even stylistic choices)

I think video games can be art, but everyone tries to make them art based on the merits of other mediums. Games need to be considered art based on what actually characterizes them. I can't consider shit like Bioshock Infinite art, but I can with Dwarf Fort

ElderScrolls
Last of Us
Deus Ex
Half Life

all masterworks that the east has never matched up to

The art team did a much better job at worldbuilding, character design, music, and overall writing. Deus Ex's story was impressive at the time, but nowadays it kind of shows that it was written by a couple neckbeards browsing conspiracy forums.

this so much

>Last of Us
>Half Life

>TES

Final Fantasy is better.

>TLoU

NieR is better.

>Deus Ex

Snatcher is better.

>Half Life

Japan doesn't do FPS games because they have taste.

>With Gone Homo, you can most approach the situation as you want.
There is no multiple ways to look at shit in a house, go up to the attic and find out you're a dyke.

Gone Home was made to be linear, not open, running around the house in circles is another way to play Gone Home, but it was never meant to be played that way and doesn't enchance the experience on an artistic level.

Ok, what's makes something art to you then?

>I don't agree with that. That may be true for older games that were fucking wonky 90% of the time, but a lot of games nowadays are polished enough that you never see the cracks in the game world.
Like No Man's Sky? kek

>Art is supposed to be fun?
But in order to progress a game you have to interact with it and overcome it's challenges. Why would you do it if it's not fun? "not fun" music and movies can progress on their own, but not games

I found Catherine to be more substantial than most of the Sup Forumscore I've listened to

videogames have the same promise of artistic authenticity that music always had.

The threshold, in terms of resources, needed to produce and distribute a film or theater production (and perhaps much visual art) have always been very high, and haven't been getting any lower.

Music (since the 90s) and videogames (since the early 00s) have become increasingly easy media for a single person or indie group to find success with, without relying on support from big producers or having to market towards a lowest common denominator audience. We're in a golden age for indie gaming right now and it's fantastic

Most high-level literature is not fun. It is enlightening. You turn the page because you have to, not because it's fun.

>final fantasy

which one? actually you know what, it doesn't really matter

Pick one. Even the worst is probably better than TES.

Your understanding of art is superficial as fuck.

The original Deus Ex represents videogames as art because of it's characteristics as a a videogame moreso than Human Revolution.

Fuck off.

It's much easier to tell a story through words than games. Games are severely limited because of their rules and software/hardware restrictions. Books are only limited to language/vocabulary. This is why they can't be on the same level.

>one medium is better than another

Music and game are both valid as art, but most art is shit.

>Nier is better
related in what way? because there's a companion
fucking weeb autists grasping at straws

Videogames are inherently art, the medium is however is still in it's infancy, partially because It's still obsessed with attempting to emulate other artforms.

Ironically Metal Gear is still my favorite game series however.

You are so fucking retarded.

i don't really have to, because they all draw from the same obnoxious jrpg tropes and aesthetics that make the entire genre awful. It's the same generic shit every time

i would put morrowind up against any FF title

>The threshold, in terms of resources, needed to produce and distribute a film or theater production (and perhaps much visual art) have always been very high, and haven't been getting any lower.
I seriously fucking disagree with that. You can make really cheap movies that are almost indistinguishable from big studio productions if you restrict yourselfs to the basics (no cg and shit)
For a movie all the expensive stuff is equipment, almost everything else is just personal talent.

With videogames on the other hand, everything is fucking expensive. Voice acting is expensive, asset creations is expensive. Without looking at quality, I'd be seriously hardpressed to find a single indie game that could pass for a high budget game even at a glance, whereas low budget movies can look just as good as high budget ones. That doesn't have anything to do with quality, but with possibilities.

If videogames companies were bands who would they be?

>nintendo - the beatles
>sega - the beach boys
>square - post syd pink floyd
>capcom - the doors
>bethesda - kanye west

do not laugh i have autism.

Well said. MGS3 is one of the best pieces of any medium that I've ever experienced.

Not him but The Last of Us is inferior to Resident Evil 4 in terms of gameplay anyway.

Story does not matter as game design is the sole focus of video games, crappy stories are just there to make video game manchildren feel more comfortable about their hobby.

>x is better
>give no reasons why

bait or retarded, not true which

From Software - Death Grips

Explain to me how Human Revolution videogames better than the original. Tell me it has the same technical depth as the original, not about all the superficial flash which only serves to set it up as another generic sci-fi story inspired by much better works in other media.That's literally just the aesthetic, that doesn't explain why Human Revolution is better art than the original AS A VIDEO((((((((GAME))))))))).

>With videogames on the other hand, everything is fucking expensive. Voice acting is expensive, asset creations is expensive. Without looking at quality, I'd be seriously hardpressed to find a single indie game that could pass for a high budget game even at a glance, whereas low budget movies can look just as good as high budget ones. That doesn't have anything to do with quality, but with possibilities
That's just wrong, you can make an indie game on simple game creation software, for example hotline Miami was created on game maker 7 which is really cheap, you also don't need voice acting.

>videogames (since the early 00s) have become increasingly easy media for a single person or indie group to find success with
that is also bullshit. Sure, we get a ton of indie games every single day, but most are neither successful at getting popular nor at standing out from the masses. Indie developers may be the least self-aware people in existence. I mean, all those people can't seriously think that their sci-fi retro pixel art adventure game is anything special at this point.

i'm not talking about something being distinguishable from a big-budget title of the same medium. I'm talking about being able to make something that's great art, and it being able to reach lots of people.

I'm sure there are tons of high quality indie, low budget films, but 1) they rarely reach a broad audience and 2) to make a great film you still need far more resources. The type of work that needs to go into a great film draws on a much broader set of skills than the type needed for games.

Take a game like Papers Please, which was basically made by one dude. If you only know how to program (or use something like Unity), you can make an great game, with only minimal input needed from others (sparse sound, art assets, definitely don't need voice acting). If you only know how to direct/shoot/act etc, you're going to have a hard time.

fromt software is for normies.

You literally said Human Revolution has no game characteristics or something.

How?
It might not have as much depth as the original, but as it stands, HR is still pretty good.

this is the only good thing to come out of this thread

>We will never see another Armored Core thanks to Sup Forums making Souls a meme

has to be bait
>limited controls
>shit camera work
>stiff movements
>poor storage system

RE4 controls like garbage

>Tarkovsky

wow congratulations you can namedrop every film buff's first entry-level artsy director, you must have such good taste.