>The famous electrical recording engineer Steve Albini says of IDM "As the idiom developed, the music became more and more about the novelty of certain sounds and treatments, ridiculously trivial aspects like tempo and choice of samples, and the public personae of the makers. It became a race to novelty. I find that kind of evolution beneath triviality. It is a decorative, not substantive, evolution."
Is he right?
>perpetuating the term "IDM"
>current year
do you have any fucking idea how embarrassing you are
>the IDM idiom
kek
Absolutely.
His comment on /bleep/ music is great too.
>I am absolutely the wrong audience for this kind of music. I've always detested mechanized dance music, its stupid simplicity, the clubs where it was played, the people who went to those clubs, the drugs they took, the shit they liked to talk about, the clothes they wore, the battles they fought amongst each other...
>Basically all of it: 100 percent hated every scrap.
>The electronic music I liked was radical and different, shit like the White Noise, Xenakis, Suicide, Kraftwerk, and the earliest stuff form Cabaret Voltaire, SPK and DAF. When that scene and those people got co-opted by dance/club music I felt like we'd lost a war. I detest club culture as deeply as I detest anything on earth. So I am against what you're into, and an enemy of where you come from but I have no problem with what you're doing...
>In other words, you're welcome to do whatever you like with whatever of mine you've gotten your hands on. Don't care. Enjoy yourself.
lmao he doesn't know anything about cabaret voltaire
What gives you that impression at all? You think he doesn't know what direction they went in after their "earliest stuff"?
> I detest club culture as deeply as I detest anything on earth.
CRAWLING IN MY SKIN
Say that to my face fucker and not online
how are tempo and choice of samples ridiculously trivial? Fast paced synth drum stuff is way different than mid tempo recorded drum stuff.
nah but being american he doesn;t get how exposed to disco and italo cabs were
like he has no fucking idea about sheffield funk
What a bonehead
yes
i love electronic music but he's right. So much of IDM just sounds like its purpose is to be IDM rather than being good music. Generally you make music you like and it falls into a certain category by default, you should never craft music specifically so it falls in the category you want. It's good for practicing, but it often creates uninspired music in which you didn't make the decisions, a wikipedia definition of a genre did.
>So much of IDM just sounds like its purpose is to be IDM rather than being good music.
do you have any examples of this?
the flashbulb
otto von schirasch
richard devine
i like otto he brought some good stuff
i know what you mean though, it's just because it feels 2nd gen, there's music in all genres like that, plenty of dubstep is like that
Yeah, he's right. Early """IDM""" was great back when it was just more introverted techno/breakbeat hardcore, but as it developed and came into its own, so to speak, it just turned into wanky Breakcore.
Very few artists lumped into the group made actual creative progress after about 2000 - most likely because artists started embracing the term and cliches instead of railing against them and subverting them. People like Autechre (who are sorta wanky themselves but have the vision/skillz to back it up) and Matmos are outliers.
His comments on club culture are pretty reductive though.
wasn't me just for clarification
Despite being a respected dude in the scene I really think Venetian Snares falls in that pit, I like his latest release but Rossz Csillag Alatt Született and Huge Chrome Cylinder Box Unfolding have given me no pleasure after i tried to listen to them multiple times.
kid606 also gives me that feel, although his ambient stuff is really cool.
a lot of drill n bass music is really carefully crafted but unfortunately that care always seems misdirected to me. Simply put, i just think these guys care way too much about shit they shouldn't.
This is obviously all speculation on my part, but it really sounds like they don't think of music as a bunch of different sounds that come together to create one entity (which is really what a song is and what people listen to in the end, despite the production process). A lot of them focus on the small individual sounds and try to make them interesting, like a hihat or a snare, and when they do they do the same with the next sound, forgetting their context which is just as important as the individual sounds. I really think that it would be very interesting to learn the process behind a lot of these interesting sounds but i just find no pleasure when i listen to a whole song of them.
This weirdy-beardy has done a few genuinely startling tracks, and is generally quite amusing. What galls is the sheer arrogance and temerity of Squarepusher and other similar "drill and bass" dilettantes --they actually believe they are improving on jungle!!! All that Squarepusher has brought to drum & bass is some Jaco Pastorius bass-frills, a dys-funk-tional rhythmic convolution, and a quirked-out daftness that recalls nobody so much as Primus. On a purely technical level, nothing that Squarepusher does with breakbeats surpasses engineer-poets like Hype, Aphrodite, Dillinja, 4 Hero or Danny Breaks, to mention only the most obvious leaders-in-the-field. It is only Squarepusher/Plug etc's distance from the scene that allows them to convolute the breakbeats beyond any use-value to DJ or dancer; the wilful incongruity of the samples is all well and good, but if junglists use the same old gangsta/cyberpunk soundbites and apocalyptic textures, it's because they're trying to create and sustain a vibe, a feeling-full and meaningful mood that crystallises a certain kind of worldview and life-stance. By comparison, drill and bass is vibe-less non-sense. The drill and bass/"fungle" concept seems to exist to make a certain sort of "margin-walker" feel okay about not really having engaged with jungle as a subculture. And of course, as with most soi disant progressive iniatives, drill and bass is utterly parasitic on its populist counterpart--do you really think the idea of chopping up breakbeats would have independently occurred to the weirdy-beardy technoids in a million years?
When drill & bass first reared its head, I was admittedly quite enamored--I really liked the first two Plug EP's and Aphex Twin's "Hangable Auto Bulb" efforts, and was generally enthused by the notion that these artists were freer because they didn't belong to the drum & bass community, didn't have to service DJ's and dancefloor. But Squarepusher was a turning point. Partly because so much of his stuff sounds irritatingly daft to my ears (that said, there were three tracks on Hard Normal Daddy that sounded engagingly strange), but mainly because of the attitude of his supporters--the sheer arrogance of these folks who just assume that Tom Jenkinson's programming is so much more radical than "formula-ridden" junglists. This assumption, I strongly suspect, stems from the fact that they've never actually heard mad-sounding mash-ups like DJ Hype's remix of Remarc's "RIP" or Dillinja's "Warrior". These records are "avant-garde" and fucked-up but still manage to make you dance--to me, a much greater achievement than just freaking out all over the shop. In a lot of Squarepusher-related discourse, the underlying assumption is that if something has no funktional aspect, it's somehow more radical; that this makes it food-for-thought rather than mere dance fodder. Which would seem to replicate the old Cartesian mind/body split, a la prog rock, no?
Simon Reynolds > Albini
Another turning point was going to various freestyle/"eclectro"/illbient type clubs in London and New York, where I was struck by the absence of "vibe" compared with more "blinkered", tunnel-vision clubs that cater to very specific tastes (jump up jungle, 'aving it house, gabba, and so forth). Partly the vibe-less thing is down to the absence of drug energy, partly the absence of class-based energy/antagonism. But I also think it stems from the very rhetoric of border-crossing, style-hopping, "united mutations"--which tends to attract a rather uncommitted consumer: the proverbial chin-scratcher/head-nodder/trainspotter. Having been that sort of margin-walker myself for so long, I've kind of gone to the opposite extreme: the belief that the apparent "samey"-ness of jump up jungle or gabba or hard house actually produces something very strong and undeniable: a consistent mood, a highly charged affective atmosphere that truly pulsates with "meaning" (for want of a better word).
didnt he use a drum machine for big black?
Where you fall in terms of allegiances depends a lot on how much you value the concept of "being an individual". Squarepusher's stance depends on maintaining a disdainful distance from the jungle scene while parasitically pirating and caricaturing its ideas (I've read Jenkinson actually talk of his relationship with jungle as similar to the difference between "those who lead and those who follow"--ARSEHOLE!!!). This attitude is reflected in many Pusher-fans reluctance to get involved in club culture, seemingly based on the rather adolescent notion that being an individual means refusing to lose yourself in the crowd. Where you fall in terms of allegiance also depends on what you are fundamentally looking for pop music. If you just want weird noises to play on your stereo at home on your lonesome ownsome, then the margin-walkers artists are the ones you'll go for. But if your fix is that whole subculture-matrix where music is part of "a way of life" (e.g. jungle with the MCing and the pirate radio and the crowd rituals etc.), then ostensibly more formulaic scenes and sounds just seem "stronger".
he really needed to eat something
(oops)
My ultimate beef with the Squarepusher-type drill & bassologists is that they've decontextualised the music, stripped away all the aspects that give it resonance and affect and subcultural meaning. They've responded to jungle's complexity rather than the feelings it induces and the struggles it embodies. In true prog-rock fashion, they've taken that complexity (the breakbeat science) and turned into a baroque form of virtuosity. It's a typical white bohoprogressivist syndrome, from freeform jazz to prog rock to avant-funk---turning a popular dance music into an unpopular head music. And so those super-accelerated, pitch-shifted, scratchy-rustly-scrapy breakbeats that Squarepusher over-uses work as a trebly timbre element that you listen to, rather than funktional, kinaesthetic beats that work your body. But the real give-away about Squarepusher is what he does with the bass (possibly even more crucial to jungle than breakbeats), i.e. replace the low-end seismology with noodly Jaco Pastorius slap-bass. How anybody who'd ever viscerally experienced jungle sub-bass in its true context (at massive volume through a huge low-end intensive sound-system) could prefer Squarepusher's frilly filigrees of bass-twiddle to the "real thing".... Well, it beats me.
that doesn't mean that he likes dance music though
Wtf I hate albini now
The context of that quote is his reply to Powell asking permission to use a Big Black sample
Yep.
>The main trick I used with the 606 was (as mentioned) using the accent function to emphasize the rhythm shape. Another way to make an accent was to have the snare and the tom hit on the same beat. With these different kinds of accents, you can make a simple rhythm breathe a little bit. In recording, I would use an equalizer to open up the low-end, but that, a Memory Man and plate reverb were about all I ever had to use.
>When I first got the 606 I carried it around and listened to it like a walkman, and over the course of a day I would gradually build and re-build a rhythm until it was satisfying to listen to on its own.
>One little-mentioned oddity about the 606 was that as you turned the tempo knob higher, the decay of the sounds shortened slightly (pitch stayed constant), so I tended to use slower tempo settings programmed in double-time, because I preferred the longer tones. I discovered this during the headphone phase by programming single hits and turning the tempo knob.
>Another trick I used often was to make the drum pattern in segments of say, four bars, with different accents or minor variations of the rhythm in each segment. Then I would make a loop of an odd number of these segments, three or five, so the accents re-appeared in a less-predictable pattern. It kept the simple rhythms from being dull and repetitive.
>Drum machines can be cool instruments with a lot of character. I was always disappointed when I heard one being used clumsily, which was most of the time.
>youtube.com
Not that I agree with Albini but Jesus, this fucking sucks.
nah he looked great
>It's a typical white bohoprogressivist syndrome, from freeform jazz to prog rock to avant-funk---turning a popular dance music into an unpopular head music.
Basically this
I hate how free jazz became boring senseless noise, when the early greats like Ornette were just expressing themselves in a freer way. His music is so lively and human, his tone so bluesy and emotional, I don't see how we went from the Shape of Jazz to Come to Machine Gun.
you can't really describe squarepusher as senseless noise
IDM isn't a fucking genre
I agree though most club music bores the shit out of me
yeah, but so what. he doesn't say he hates electronics/electronic music, he hates dance music.
Nigga fat now what's good
Albini has never done anything good musically in his life, who gives a fuck?
>Albini has never done anything good musically in his life, who gives a fuck?
you cant be serious
100%
why does he try so hard to be edgy?
Proof that early ambient techno is the GOAT and all you breaks based idm wank from the likes of rdj, squarepusher etc is shite
Some people are born that way
alright bro
>edgelord albini
>proving anything
>the idiom developed, the music
idiom
developed
music
=
idm
???
woah
Choice of samples is hardly a defining aspect of IDM.
damn.........
u kiddin right
to me, it seems like he's speaking more of breakcore which sorta became synonymous with idm in the 2000s
Why? Its just a fast breakbeat genre.
where are the breakbeats in songs about my cats or huge chrome cylinder box unfolding you stupid retard
Choice of samples, preference for odd time signatures, and emphasis on """"complexity"""" are the definiting characteristics of mallDM.
whats mallDM?
see
wow, 2 songs
>songs
>semantics
>
idm isn't a real thing.
...
>talking shit about Plug
Tell me who you are so I can personally come and kick your ass.
Alternatively, tell me who wrote this so I can go and fight them.
the flashbulb (Benn Jordan) is great, definitely an underdog DIY type of guy, has created some pretty beautiful albums. don't know about the other guys
he said he liked the first couple of plug releases though
>the flashbulb (Benn Jordan) is great, definitely an underdog DIY type of guy
oh wow
oh, I misread him, yeah I'm mainly talking about Drum n' Bass for Papa, which is a really fucking brilliant album
as for the part where you're talking about the flashbulb, you deliberately left out me saying that he has created beautiful music
it's a shame he can;t see the craft in what luke does
that's always the thing with luke, he put the cheese in front to scare off casuals but real dnb heads could hear what he was doing with the breaks and how slick and subtle he was
seconded, luke is fucking ace and one of a kind. everything he touched turned to gold. nowadays I'm pretty sure that he's recycling a lot of material, but whatever. I've had his acid and drum n' bass stuff on repeat for years and years.
he liked vibert you dicks
i don't know where he says that he likes vibert in this wall of text you copied and pasted. i'm assuming it's on this literal who's wordpress blog that I'm not really interested in reading, especially after that treatment of Squarepusher.
I'm pretty sure that I'm currently talking to the author anyway, so adjust the pronouns accordingly, Mr. Reynolds.
was Steve albenis the first fedora lord?
I doubt a former Wire writer would care enough to post his old articles on cambodian massage forums tbfh.
I doubt the guy even cares about music anymore
>cats
>the flashbulb (Benn Jordan) is great, definitely an underdog DIY type of guy, has created some pretty beautiful albums. don't know about the other guys
Machine Gun isn't really a good comparison--that album has loads more emotion and power than many a more normal jazz album could ever hope for. Also, I think while the author there makes some very interesting points about music trends that definitely ring true...
>turning a popular dance music into an unpopular head music
... I think his beef is with the attitude of the heads toward the bodies, not with the head music itself. Like he clearly doesn't enjoy it much, but he (imo) correctly acknowledges that it's more down to personal preference than anything.
>i'm assuming it's on this literal who's wordpress blog
mate he wrote one of the most seminal and highly regarded books on rave/dance/club culture and his phrase "hardcore continuum" and the theory behind it has entered into club music writing canon. if you don't know him then that only reflects on your lack of knowledge.
pick up energy flash.
desu mate simon wasn't originally even into dance music, he used to listen to shoegaze and stuff like that, he came in really late without much of an ida about context
it;s funny he's trying to call out tom and luke for being outsiders because that's what he was himself, probably projecting or something
>he doesn't like Nothing is Real
I have Nothing else to say to you :^)
You could literally replace "IDM" with "rock", and "certain sounds and treatenents" with "different takes on the same handful of chord progressions" and "tempo and choice of samples" with "lyrics and guitar tones" and the point would still be valid. It's a stupid opinion from an opinionated person. I respect Albini, but I disagree with him about most of his opinions, especially about hip hop, jazz, and electronic music.
>You could literally replace "IDM" with "rock"
Prog rock, you mean.
Because IDM is technically the prog rock of electronic (dance) music. And just like prog rock, late IDM is absolute wanky trash.
what does he think of hip-hop?
club music is pretty accepting imo, so even if he was sort of late, but that shouldn't make his ideas any less self-sufficient
>blanket statements
ishygddt
This.
>current year
>not knowing who Simon Reynolds is
>actually feeling you have the right to post about anything and be taken seriously as a human being
yeah i don;t mind his opinions, but he did spend his whole career separating music out into 'real' and 'not real' which is ok if you think along the same lines, i think it's pointless but whatever
Prog-house and progressive breaks are the prog-rock of (electronic) dance music.
Clues in the name.
so fucking what, it's like saying that John Ortved is a big figure in the Simpsons scene, maybe technically true but who gives a fuck about that scene or the club music writing scene. his opinion doesn't matter as much as that of those who actually produce the stuff and it's kinda weird to watch people who apparently like IDM agree with some dude bashing fucking Squarepusher just because it's contrarian and gets you some (You)s. could just be me though
meant to quote
Worst offenders of IDM/circus jungle music:
>Otto Von Schirasch
>Venetian Snares
>The Flashbulb
>Datach'i
>Goreshit
>Nero's Day at Disneyland
>Renard & aliases
>drukqs
Anything I've missed?
>drukqs
You missed the part where you should stick to lurking and never post again.
But none of those are as wanky as IDM is.
igorr
it's neckbeard jungle
>goreshit
>IDM
We calling lolicore IDM too now?
>and the public personae of the makers
Like who?
Aphex is probably the biggest 'personae' to come out of the scene, but he's always gone about it tongue firmly in cheek. Most producers are quiet and keep to themselves.
I don't feel this way, but I understand where he's coming from.
A lot of IDM nowadays seems to strive in strangeness for its own sake. It follows the label of "intelligent" in such a way that it renders it obnoxious and borderline boring (not to mention that "IDM" is already a pompous as term for what essentially is EDM with ambient sensibilities)
Yeah that's my main question. Who on earth is he talking about there?
>it's all EDM or IDM
Yeehaw
I don't think any of it was supposed to be 'intelligent', maybe that's the problem
I dunno, he sounds kinda like Venetian Snares and/or Squarepusher on a couple tracks.
youtube.com
Lolicore is the vaporwave to IDM's plunderphonics.
I like dis kid