How do i become as good a lyricist as him

how do i become as good a lyricist as him

raise a son to be about 16 years old and have him tumble off a cliff

he looks like he reads a lot of books

>Nick Cave
>good lyricist
You are a fucking retard if you seriously believe this

To answer your question, wear trenchcoats, read 18th century literature without understanding it, be an edgelord, don't learn to write above a middle-school level, and overuse outdated metaphors.

>Henry's Dream [Mute/Elektra, 1992]
>Cave's admirers crow about his literary virtues--a rock musician who's actually published a novel! and scripted a film! about John Henry Abbott, how highbrow! Then they proffer dismal examples like "I am the captain of my pain," or the bordello containing--what an eye the man has--a whalebone corset! (Whalebone is very literary--it hasn't been used in underwear since well before Nick was born.) If this is your idea of great writing, you may be ripe for his cult. Otherwise, forget it--the voice alone definitely won't do the trick. C

>scruffy

>Christgau's opinion on anything.

Christgau.

murder your son

He hit the nail on the head right here.

Sometimes xgau doesn't know what he's talking about, but when he does, he just GETS IT.

Nah, Christgau's a presumptuous idiot. Scruffy is the real deal.

SHE WAS A CATCH
WE WERE A MATCH
I WAS THE MATCH
THAT WOULD FIRE UP HER SNATCH

Scaruffi is a cringy avant-teen who never grew up, he just rates albums based on how artsy they seem

This is opposed to Christgau? Who praises brainless rap and pop music.

>all rap and pop is bad
>I can't tell the difference between good and bad rap and pop artists
>implying he doesn't shit on tons of pop and rap
you haven't read much Christgau obviously

came here to post this

I began to warm and chill
To objects and their fields,
A ragged cup, a twisted mop
The face of Jesus in my soup
Those sinister dinner deals
The meal trolley's wicked wheels
A hooked bone rising from my food
All things either good or ungood.

Nice quads tho

God I hate music reviws

...

Oh god, that is awful

Yeah I'm sure that you have much more literary insight than an old, nerdy rock critic.

Call him many things, but he has an excellent bullshit detector. Try to develop one yourself.

read and/or listen to this stuff


listed reasons for why his writing is bad:
1. it's bad
2. he has a literary style

good argument

I don't even like Nick Cave but using someone else's opinion to back up your own when it comes to the merit of art is really pathetic, especially since you'll never even know my name or what my face looks like

Also I reviewed music for years and music journalists have zero qualifications that the average person doesn't meet

So basically christgau is right only when he agrees with you

>Sup Forums

>excellent bullshit detector.

Wait...I'm picking up something...

>he's right because he's a rock critic

What? I just posted it because it's witty and insightful.

Read some Christgau. It's obviously that the dude is well-read.

fuck me had a good laugh at that

>muh 18th century tropes is "a literary style"
let's not kid ourselves

>I just posted it because it's witty and insightful.
it's neither

>It's obviously that the dude is well-read.
it's obviously that you aren't

>it's neither
Well I wouldn't expect a Nick Cave fan to understand it.
>it's obviously that you aren't
lol

>Well I wouldn't expect a Nick Cave fan to understand it.
see do you plan to continue being a fucktard or are you going to stop posting

kek, Nick Cave fans can't even defend their favorite artist
>u hurt my feelings, stop posting
how about refute my opinion
oh no, you can't

>implying and the ass saw the angel wasn't top-tier southern gothic

i do agree that he's not the world's best lyricist, though. being overly wordy in music takes it out of it being lyrics and more like a prose poem sung over music

david tibet is a lot more exceptional at what cave does though

You do know Moby Dick was released in the 19th century... right?

yes

here's your reply

So you can't.

Really makes you think...

>Also I reviewed music for years and music journalists have zero qualifications that the average person doesn't meet

Having known many music journalists I'll say this is fact, they are the most spoiled, self-important, petulant children I have ever known.

Even prima donna musicians aren't as insufferable, because musicians usually do some real work to warrant their reputation.

read books and drink a 5 oz bottle of delsym cough syrup every day.

its what helped me!

Scaruffi unintentionally crystalized the reason music critics are insufferable when he unironically stated "the critic is the real artist"

The example of a "whalebone" is not really a strong example of an 18th century trope in regards to Cave. It's most likely a way for Cave to reference Moby Dick. For one Moby Dick had a metaphor about girls wearing baleen skirts, and Captain Ahab had a whalebone leg. A whalebone corset is likely a fusion of those elements.

I mean he's right in the sense that sometimes Cave writes absolute bullshit, especially within the last 10-15 years since his shtick grew kinda old. However, sometimes he's pretty decent, "lay me low" is an example in my opinion, I find it quite compelling how he portrays his death in a hyperbolic manner, mocking the idea that our eventual demise somehow has inherent meaning and/or is important.

>david tibet is a lot more exceptional at what cave does though
Cave is not good at being wordy. Cave is good at small, simple lines. His verbose work bores me, because it's verbal padding in place of meaning.

I'd say that Michael Gira is on par with Cave at moments, but Cave is good at eliciting emotions from well-written lines, not the muck of his overwrought material.

>he doesn't realize that art only has value in relation to the value that consumers of the art place onto it
>he doesn't realize that artists' intentions mean jack shit
>he doesn't get what Scaruffi was trying to convey
>instead he complains about critics on a Taiwanese drone metal board
I typo'd, sue me

>Scaruffi unintentionally crystalized the reason music critics are insufferable when he unironically stated "the critic is the real artist"

This doesn't even need to be said, it's fact.

Critics are presumptuous douchebags, and leeches on the people with actual talent. Thank you and good day.

Still pretty cliche. Anybody who's gone through their undergrad existentialist phase should realize that Cave has nothing to say.

it's time for bed

yep

>it's time for bed
you're painfully lacking in self-awareness right about now

>I typo'd, sue me
No, you very clearly were under the impression that it was an example of an 18th century trope. You didn't just accidentally hit 8 instead of 9, in two separate posts.

>caring about Christgau's opinions
Fucking pathetic. Reminder he shit all over Spiderland, In the Court of the Crimson King and other groundbreaking classics.

yes I did

So crumpy needs a nap

>Anybody who's gone through their undergrad existentialist phase should realize that Cave has nothing to say.
That is not what Cave is good at. Cave is a one trick pony who's tact is in writing love songs.

He is a poor man's Leonard Cohen, he's not Townes Van Zandt.

>you're painfully lacking in self-awareness right about now
You're L I T E R A L L Y defending Scaruffi, a man with no talent, for claiming he is the one who makes every piece of art he enjoys truly special by saying nice things about it and comparing it to other albums he likes

>he had an opinion that differs from the establishment
>therefore he's a bad critic
wew lad
also
>posting the most pretentious, worthless critic in the history of rock criticism
I bet you've never even read a Lester Bangs essay, plebien

Christgau is a poptimist hack who frequently gives high ratings to laughably awful shit. If you're gonna be a mindless drone who steals his opinions from other people then you should steal your opinions from people who are respectable.

You didn't, and it's embarrassing that you are trying to make it seem that way. Though I guess you have to, considering it's also embarrassing that you were criticizing Cave for "not understanding" 18th century literature while simultaneously not understanding it yourself.

I'm defending one thing he said, not the person himself, calm down
>poptimism is bad
Pretentious tard detected

>If you're gonna be a mindless drone who steals his opinions from other people then you should steal your opinions from people who are respectable.

>any critic
>respectable

Come on...

It isn't really a cliche as far as music goes. Granted, there are a few poems doing something vaguely similar but arguing that it is a cliche in a musical context either implies that you have a weird conception of what a cliche is or you're wrong. Also stop with this "anybody who" bullshit, you're not 13 anymore. At least physically that is.

What an impressive display of pure autism

I typo'd dude, calm ze fug down
It is cliche

>backpedaling
>projecting your panic
keep it coming bb

literally you rn

Oof, you've been proven wrong. Better call me autistic.

sad!

>Pretentious tard detected
the ironing

christgau is aggressively wrong about everything

>>therefore he's a bad critic
No, he's a bad critic because most of time he doesn't actually review music. The vast majority of his "reviews" are one or two "snarky" sentences that don't tell you anything about the music.
>posting the most pretentious, worthless critic in the history of rock criticism
You've confused Scaruffi with Christgau.
>I bet you've never even read a Lester Bangs essay, plebien
I've read Lester's work, you faggot.

>It is cliche

Holy shit, you're boring to talk to. Have a good day.

When was I proven wrong? I've been right the entire time.
Reminder that no one has actually given me a reason why Nick Cave isn't complete trash. Another reminder that the reason they haven't defended him is because they can't.

Someone bring up Dylan, I want to trash Bob Dylan.

>wojack
retro meme

Bob Dylan.

Nick Cave doesn't have to not be trash for Christgau to be a hack

>No, he's a bad critic because most of time he doesn't actually review music. The vast majority of his "reviews" are one or two "snarky" sentences that don't tell you anything about the music.
>muh music
I bet you're one of those losers who "don't listen to the lyrics". Christgau is a pop reviewer. Learn what that means.
>You've confused Scaruffi with Christgau.
no
>I've read Lester's work, you faggot.
>read Lester Bangs but thinks Christgau is bad
liar
no u
heh, nice refutation, I won't stoop down to your level of autism and pedantry. Go to reddit for that shit.

>When was I proven wrong? I've been right the entire time.
Remember when you sauntered into this thread, casually implying that you're informed on 18th century literature and understand it? And then you showed us that you don't?

>Christgau is a pop reviewer. Learn what that means.
it means he gives generous scores to contemporary music for women who were your age in the 80's and tells them to stay far away from the icky bad music that has substance

No, because that never happened. You're grasping at eggshells here.

> user 1 raises valid point
> user 2 lmao xD its cliche lmao
> user 1 fuck off
> user 2 like lmao xD no refutation

You haven't even made a point to begin with.

This single example you used as an 18th century trope was actually 19th century. Moby Dick was released around 1950; you were at least half a century off. You were wrong

The most important voice of the decade was probably Nick Cave, the Australian expatriat (ex-Birthday Party) who created a unique style of emphatic, metaphysical storytelling. From Her To Eternity (1984), featuring the Bad Seeds (Einsturzende Neubaten's guitarist Blixa Bargeld, Magazine's bassist Barry Adamson and Birthday Party's guitarist Mick Harvey on drums), revealed Cave as a preacher of the moral apocalypse. Over the course of several psychodramas, Cave agonized undertook an expressionistic odyssey in a nightmarish atmosphere which was sustained by a subtle texture of sounds at the edge of dissonance. Cave's paranoid crooning or hysteric whining soared towards the negative absolute in the middle of grotesque orgies of hammering instruments or propelled by funeral marches. The Firstborn Is Dead (1985) perfected Cave's harrowing narrative art while emphasizing the bluesy and gothic overtones. His "murder ballads" wrapped in increasingly dark symbolism, Cave proceeded to carve a metaphysical hell within the real hell of the human world. His morbid fantasies ideally bridged a werewolf's call of the wild to Verdi's requiem.

Harvey switched to keyboards for Tender Prey (1988) and helped sculpt a more powerful sound. That sound (truly a voice of the apocalypse) propelled Cave's aesthetics of universal sorrow to the spiritual frenzy of Good Son (1990). Its hymns (which drew from spiritual and gospel) were still lugubrious, spectral and demonic, but at the same time drenched in visionary folly and rescued by a sense of redemption and salvation. Parallel to his Christian conversion and his relocation to Brazil, it sounded like Cave had reached a cathartic point: his inner ghosts were mutating into guardian angels, and his music was transformed from a soundtrack of hell to an anthem of the universal judgement. This breath-taking synthesis of Jim Morrison, Tom Waits and Bob Dylan, of William Blake, Walt Whitman and William Faulkner

A pretentious hack who's fame is based on hiding behind meaninglessly obfuscated lyrical riddles, and pointlessly memorized overwrought songs on top of forgettable melodies.

He is the genesis of the worst cliche of folkies, because of him we have the sore garbage of the likes of Joanna Newsom to contend with.

Alright, anons.

What do you consider great lyrics in the context of rock music? Examples appreciated.

>he's buttmad that one album that he likes got a bad review from xgau, HOW DARE HE HAVE AN OPINION
>he thinks his avant-teen trash has more substance than average pop
>he read a few reviews of recent artists by him and thinks he knows the guy
Calling it, next you'll bring out le music theory and tell me that pop uses too few chords and that you don't like classical but still recognize it as "objectively" better music.
If you don't see how that is cliche you're a retard
pedantry
>dude it sounds artsy so it must be deep
typical scaruffi

>grasping at eggshells
what the fuck does that mean

Lou Reed
Van Morrison

>If you don't see how that is cliche you're a retard

If you don't see how that isn't a cliche you're retarded.

it means ur a fagot
woah thanks dude, guess im too stupid to grammer

Bob Dylan started this entire cliche where to be considered a good folk songwriter by plebs, you have to write an overwritten, bloated epic of a song, where the meaning is diluted behind walls of needless imagery, and concision be damned.

>he's buttmad
projecting

>HOW DARE HE HAVE AN OPINION
calm down, sally. he can have an opinion, but that doesn't mean it has value (it doesn't)

>he thinks his avant-teen trash has more substance than average pop
pop music is great, Christgau can eat a dick

>he read a few reviews of recent artists by him and thinks he knows the guy
are you literally Robert Christgau

>Calling it, next you'll bring out le music theory and tell me that pop uses too few chords and that you don't like classical but still recognize it as "objectively" better music.
I think you're arguing with someone entirely different in your head so you can just cut out the middleman and talk to yourself tbhfam

>pedantry
Your main point was wrong. Not pedantry. Quit moving goalposts.

Here's a chance for redemption: Name a reference he's made to 18th century literature. Or 19th, I'll give you 200 years.

lmao, why are you still here, this is my victory lap

Hopefully that bought you enough time to do some frantic googling. I'll be here.

great argument, even if that were true that's the saddest little victory lap in history

I'm just imagining you doing a little cheer for yourself before you twist the sweat out of your ponytail

What are you hoping to accomplish? Nick Cave's entire shtick is his literary references.

>Christgau's entire assessment of Nick Cave is a short paragraph of "DUDE PRETENTIOUS LMAO"
>you act like Christgau's shallow assessment is the word of God
>Scaruffi's assessment of Nick Cave is far more in depth and intelligent
>you dismiss his assessment as "dude it sounds artsy so it must be deep"
Fuck you and your double standards. You poptimists really are the most cancerous assholes on this board.

Name one from the 18th or 19th century besides moby dick

>I'm just imagining you doing a little cheer for yourself before you twist the sweat out of your ponytail
I think you're arguing with someone entirely different in your head so you can just cut out the middleman and talk to yourself tbhfam
>he think I worship at the altar of the Xgau
nah mane I just thought he was spot on in that particular review, didn't realize avant-kids got so triggered over him
>poptimism is bad
wew
autism

to be fair you're a faggot for liking Scaruffi

>MY BABY CALLS ME THE LOCH NESS MONSTER
>TWO GREAT BIG HUMPS THEN I'M GONE

One of my favorite lines of all time
I love how perfectly he accepts being a sleezy middle aged ex-rocker with Grinderman