Remember WW2 when we deliberately bombed TWO civilian targets with weapons of mass destruction killing more than a 200 thousand people, mostly women, children and the old? Is there any way that DOESN'T fall under the category of a war crime?
I'm familiar with the justification/excuse that a land war would have been more costly but does that really change anything? If ISIS dropped a nuke in washington and new york to get americans to surrender would it be justified because they were avoiding a drawn out conflict?
America never signed the Geneva Convention America did those acts BEFORE such things were considered War Crimes.
Michael Reed
Please consider the Soviet Union was days away from invading Japan,and the US had the same idea. Unless you wanted a THIRD Communist-Democracy split nation.The Japanese anyway were quite keen and vowed to never surrender, indoctrinated civilians threw themselves off cliffs rather than submit to foreign power.
Isaiah Parker
....sorry does that change the nature of the act in some way?
Isaac Hughes
Right, so we slaughtered a hundred thousand non combatants ourselves.
sorry, i missed the part where you explaned how it wasn;t a war crime
Leo Anderson
we are the war criminals?
the Japanese Emperor God ordered his pilots to start taking meth and commit suicide. He lost the war and refused to give up. It was 200 thousand Japs or it was gunna be +200 thousand Japs along with another +100 thousand Americans. We nuked his country and he still didnt want to give up. We had to make Japan sign a treaty including the clause: 'your Emperor isn't God incarnate'.
No we arent war criminals, we warned him what we were doing and we spread word in Japan exactly where and what we were going to hit to give people a chance to leave. JAPAN KNEW WE HAD NUKES WE SENT THEM FOOTAGE. They had their chance. And look at them now. They turned the largest food source on this planet into a dead zone. We should have turned that entire island into glass.
And btw, you don't invade anyone's Homeland on foot, look how Vietnam and Korea turned out.
Ryan Morgan
Let me see if i can sum up your argument:
>the japaense leadership/military did bad things Therefore butchering women and children is not a war crime
>We gave them fair warning Therefore butchering women and children is not a war crime
>A land invasion would have been costly Therefore butchering women and children is not a war crime
That about cover it? lol
Brody Williams
yep, and if u dont see your own life as more valuable then ur enemy, u end up taking meth and dive bombing them, ur both dead, and the species goes extinct.
are you trying to tell me the japs were right? that they deserved to live even tho they were killing themselves? dont be silly. OH WAT UR SAYING IS THAT ITS WRONG TO KILL CIVILIANS, WELL TAKE THAT FOOD OUT OF UR MOUTH ASSHOLE, UR CHEWING ON A LIVING THING AND IT DOESNT DESERVE TO BE MASTICATED.
Jack Bennett
this fred gave you really butthurt son eh!?
warcrimes still dont justify other warcrimes you dickhead murican faggot
Nathan Williams
>there are always choices yeah like war or not go to war. unfortunately in whatever instance you are referring... we went to war
Hudson Sanders
Do something about it faggot. You cant stop America unless it kills itself first
Elijah Allen
>If ISIS dropped a nuke in washington and new york to get americans to surrender would it be justified because they were avoiding a drawn out conflict no because they are not a UN recognized nation and made an official declaration of war
can't play in the game of war without the above.
yes remember that it is just a game and it has rules
Christopher Butler
Yes it does. It means legally we cannot be held accountable for anythingt hat happened in WWII unless someones forces us. And that is unlikely considering our spending.
Oliver Harris
>"You are going to vote for my daddy in November, right user?"
Aaron Baker
It's summertime again folks..
Kevin Allen
I'm no history nerd, but I think I remember one of my history teachers talk about during WW2 Japan had also invaded China, would take their women and skewer them from the vagina up. Shouldn't that be a war crime?
Carson Carter
'its wrong to use violence to stop violence.'
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listen up sonny, its called the lesser of two evils. i know u think everything is a special flower and that those civilians didnt deserve to die. but that decision wasnt with us, every general in the japs army wanted to give up. Only one person stopped that. The war criminal was, and always will be the Emperor that didnt want to admit defeat (like you right now). People were going to die, when u invade a homeland the civlian's get weapons and fight. Easily 20% of those bombed were males of fighting age. So I am gunna cut ur number down by that amount, dont say 200 thousand, say 180 thousand innocents. And 180 thousand innocent japanese with 20 tousand guilty ones is better then even one American life, because we were provoked into fight, meaning we were innocent concerning involvement in the conflict, they attacked us, we wouldnt have been in WW2 except for pearl harbor.
Henry Wood
You stupid faggots forget that war has casualties, who honestly gives a shit, nobody is gonna make America own up to it so until then its up i the air as to who is in the wrong.
Ryan Bennett
Then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
You think the wholesale slaughter of innocents is an acceptable price to save soldiers and i don't
Andrew Russell
Estimated numbers of casualties for Japan would have been in excess of a million civilians if the US and Russia had invaded by land instead. I'd say killing 140,000-200,000 people is less shitty than a million people. Besides Hiroshima and Nagasaki were considered strategic military points. It ruined Japan's war logistics
Jack Harris
Is this going to be yet another daily thread made by yet another anti-american faggot?
Go to war and defend your home, or not go to war and become a cuck as your people and bombed to death while you surrender.
Blake Rogers
you have to consider the intentions for the act and not just the act itself
anyone who tries to squeeze "morality" out of war (or love) is just kidding themselves, morality dies during war because war is the ultimate manifestation of nature, and morality is the ultimate negation of nature
therefore morality and war are opposite to one another and cannot exist in harmony, all participants of war are expected to act immorally
Aaron Wilson
Whether or not they're official players in the game has nothing to do with the rational behind the action.
Noah Jenkins
or go to war and then still get bombed to death, including women and children? man we sure showed them
Carter Johnson
Much like the US then and the US now are different.
Owen Lee
Not really, user. The fact we had to bomb them fuckin TWICE proves their dedication. They had dug in on the outlying islands and stifled US naval progress. At least those fuckers knew it was coming. Can't say the same for Pearl Harbor. You wanna pin a war crime on someone, try Churchill for Dresden or Japan for Unit 731. You clearly know fuckall about history or geneva protocols, so go read up on that instead of advancing ill-informed bullshit on Sup Forums. We've already got those banana posting fucks to contend with.
Gabriel Howard
...uh no. The fact that it was not technically illegal at the time does not in any respect change the nature of what we did...
Adam Peterson
Absolutely. And?
Charles Cruz
USA kills tons of sand people, i live in a sand people area in France and i thank you very much for the job, keep going my dear slim and clever american brothers
Hunter King
Read literally any other post in this thread and its convincing you why the fuck it was a lesser of two evils. You spineless pacifistic types dont know jackshit about history.
Lucas Hernandez
So we were afraid to fight a land war and we chose instead do glass thousands of women and children.
Sorry, still not getting how that's not a war crime
Gavin Parker
And OP is trying to give Japan a free pass for what they did wrong and only focusing on what happened to them. Probably some kind of weeb upset what happened to their holy land, Japan.
Chase Hughes
What you people dont understand and even our own people are starting to forget, is that 1 American life is worth thousands of anyone elses purely because they are American. Japan learned quickly what attacking the US would mean. We should have done the same thing after 9/11, Benghazi, and after every video ISIS posts killing Americans.
Nathan Green
Unfortunately.
Aaron Murphy
You're a fucking retard.
That crime specifically was made after they dropped the bomb. Please just kill yourself.
Tyler Bell
Nah, America hasn't done anything like Nanking. You argue very poorly. Get an education. Take some history and some logic while you're there because your shit is remedial.
Ethan Nguyen
JAPANESE MADE WOMEN AND CHILDREN FIGHT REGARDLESS YOU DUMBASS
William Turner
keep telling yourself that. keep telling yourself the americans are the good guys.
Carter Kelly
Checked.
Kevin White
Right. So if ISIS nuked washington and new york to end the conflict it would be the lesser of to evils and therefore justified, yes?
Jaxon Lewis
Well America is on its way out, so we will likely see in our lifetimes what the world is like without America looking out.
Michael Sanchez
"Digging in" to prolong a steady path to US victory that was without question isn't a excuse to massacre civilians in a terror attack to save vastly fewer military lives. Japan had zero fucking chance to win a war when its navy was about entire sunk and its oil nearly depleted. This was a time saving effort
Josiah Parker
if we're going by whats "legal", you can go to prison for a long time just for growing weed.
Lincoln Diaz
Oh wise man, please explain to me how the US is still the same.
My whole point is a war crime is a war crime, you should be held accountable for it. Sure the punishment would very depending on the crime, but it shouldn't be excusable.
Nathan Morris
>you don't invade anyone's Homeland on foot, look how Vietnam and Korea turned out. >what happened in Germany
Oliver Bailey
NY isn't a valid military target and your shitty false equivalence fallacy is shitty.
Joseph Turner
We were not the good guys. Its war. People died. Get over it. Now the U.S. is a bunch of pussies cause now we are afraid of all conflicts. Such a shame.
Bentley Baker
Justified in the fact that ISIS is trying to win, so yes. From their perspective that is perfectly justified and exactly what they want to do.
Ryan Kelly
Incorrect. The Japanese were instructed and more than capable of fighting us off down to the last man,with nothing more than sticks and stones. You look at War very simplistically. Japan didnt care whatsoever, just like the user said,it took TWO Nukes. The Firebombing of Japan killed waaay more collectively, and a land Invasion that would've resulted in USSR vs USA vs IJA combat PLUS Japanese 'civilians' would've been a lot worse. In Japan,nobody was a civilian.
Isaac Gonzalez
Moron, if the bombs were not dropped then millions more would have died in a land war, the bombs ended the war and stopped worse from happening.
Zachary Reed
You known its was kinda frowned at even then to target civilians. They didn't nuke japan then just had a sudden moral epiphany that killing unarmed non combatants is kinda bad.
Xavier Jackson
And so based on a potentiality we burned them alive. Sure japan was already on its heals and running out of resources but we were afraid of what might happen if we invaded so we just slaughtered them preemptively. All perfectly justifiable
Dominic Nelson
>Its war. People died yeah, youre right. its war, therefore its justified.
Owen White
back then the Japs were almost as fucked up and metal as ISIS they were just more organised They were fanatical to the extreme They soon packed that shit up after the second bomb hit We should do the same to ISIS, no reason why it wouldnt work again
Lincoln Thompson
its not a war crime when you give them ample notice and remind them multiple times that it will be bombed. they hid shit in civilian locations, they got warned that it will be bombed. get your shit together kid.
Nicholas Jones
1. Not a terror attack, stop misappropriating words to bolster your flimsy "point.' 2. This "time saving effort" also mitigated casualties on both sides. Had the war been allowed to drag out, death tolls would have been substantially higher. What part of the lesser of two evils don't you get? Are you dumb or just trolling?
Cameron Jenkins
All's fair in war, cuck. When it comes down to it, nothing is a war crime
Cameron Hall
So it's to slaughter the innocent as long as it gains you a military advantage? Neat.
But actually you've missed the point. Nuking american cities in an effort to make america surrender so as to avoid a prolonged conflict. whether or not they're military targets is irrelevant
Jeremiah Nguyen
i think the bombing of japan was a tragety. i wish it had never happened. people dont deserve to walk along the street and disappear forever. children dont deserve to die a slow death of radiation poisoning while they are too young to have a reason to hate. if u dont think that the thought of that many ideas and minds being blown away like a fart in the wind doesnt bother me, your wrong. what if some scientist there had the cure for cancer? the cure for aids? what if some child there was the next world leader that was going to usher in a new era of peace happiness and prosperity for not just human kind of all life on this planet.
but guess wat. when someone punchs u in the face u stop thinking about how good a person they might be and u start worrying about all the important people in ur life and how they will suffer if ur not there to protect them. and u strike back.
just cause your too scared to push that button doesnt make it a crime for someone else to be strong enough to.
Julian Adams
Would you feel that it's justified?
Ryder Ross
wow, such edge.
Leo Sanchez
Mfw you don't understand war support infrastructure..
Ian Robinson
Exactly! War is kill the other side before they kill us. Its not keep asking them to surrender or ask questions first. If you're worried about how savage or unethical things are during war, you are going to lose said war
Gabriel Smith
Based post
Adrian Peterson
>when someone punchs u in the face u stop thinking about how good a person they might be and u start
When someone punches you in the face you shoot him and his whole family.
Fixed that for you
Asher Gonzalez
Ah, so now a city's validity as a military target is irrelevant when it's a fly in your ointment? Pff. And it's not all about "military advantage" it's about MINIMIZING CASUALTIES you thick fuck. I've seen dozens of good explanations here but you don't seem to have the reading comprehension skills to get it. You argue in circles and employ logical fallacies in almost every one of your posts. I hope one day you look back on this with shame. You should.
Thomas Reed
like the choice we gave the japs: SURRENDER or ANNHILATION
Easton Perez
In every late war battle Japan lost many times the amount of soldiers to US casualty A country with no Navy, No air force and no infrastructure had zero fucking change to win, They already lost. It was just stalling. The US didnt even have to invade mainland japan. They could have just kept targeting its military until it had none. These people where not super humans. They where no even effective solders. They would have give up eventually.
There as no need to nuke anything. the US had already won.
And it doesn't even matter. Terror attacks on civilian targets to save the life of solders is just indefensible.
Jaxon Powell
yeah, because the harsh reality of human existence is "Edgy" not everything that scares you is said or done in an attempt to be edgy. go be a pussy somewhere else.
Juan Cook
No, i think its justified to nuke the entire middle east into rubble. The winner writes the history books
Cameron Williams
The Soviet Union would've invaded the Japanese Islands by itself if we hadnt dropped the bombs and annexed them ourselves. Please remember we rebuilt Hiroshima and did nothing but good for Japan afterwards. Japan never apologized for its War Crimes, Atleast we helped afterward..they surely didnt
Jayden Adams
my nig. this guy fuckin gets it.
Brandon Hill
Actually USA already won with Japan when they throw that bombs. Also USA soldiers and gov made propaganda about Japanese calling them sub humans, 99% of posters from ww2 show Japanese people as monkeys. Also lots of soldiers call them "bugs" because killing Japanese people should be similar to killing cockroach. In lots of interviews with soldiers they where really cocky saying that they kill them for fun. Also USA soldiers are well known in France for rapes in massive scale. Because they though that every women after war would run to them like it would be some sort of love story scene.
Also USA airforce was well known for bombarding their friends in the field, especially when they fight in the same line with Canada, Poland and France. They are known for sinking Polish submarine, bombarding Canadian soldiers and also well known for fucking up bombarding targets(especially in Italy)
Today USA is well known for fighting sand niggers... And nothing more. For past good few years they actually didn't encounter any real army to fight. It's good to mention Vietnam war that show perfectly that USA army is really cocky and loud but even Asian fag with AK was problem for them.
Jason Carter
I don't recall ever talking about the importance of military targets. So yeah, it's irrelevant.
>it's about MINIMIZING CASUALTIES
Exactly. And To minimize casualties resulting from a prolonged conflict, ISIS would be justified in nuking washington and new york to get america to surrender.
See, all you're saying is that it's ok to burn women and children alive (not to mention the radiation poisoning that followed) because you fear that fighting the battle would cost you too much.
Alexander Robinson
Yeah, user. For sure. A wall in Tokyo would've been fucking swell. Wonder what impact that would've had on Ping Pong Diplomacy and other subsequent events in the region.
Dominic King
Read Hiroshima. They seemed cool about it.Well, as cool as they could from getting nuked
Juan Wood
To the uninitiated, this is Japanese territory at the day of the A-bomb.
They were hardly beaten. The nukes had to happen.
Sebastian Wilson
hahah. this is the most flailing bunch of shit i've ever read on Sup Forums. that's saying something.
Juan Peterson
Is there any way that DOESN'T fall under the category of a war crime?
acceptable collateral damage to destroy ball-bearing factories
Connor Adams
So if the middle east won then it would be justified. Gotcha.
Cameron Johnson
Because it's simply war. You don't draw out a war, you end it. People die. Innocents die. It's war. Simple. It would have been a war crime if it wasn't done with a purpose to end the war.
Lucas Ortiz
laugh it off, champ Truth hurts
Jordan Wood
>686626560 The fuck are you trying to say? Are you implying a Korea-Situation in Japan is favorable compared to US-funded reconstruction and design? The Soviets didnt exactly have a good track record with rebuilding nations, e.g East Germany..which to this day, still shows its scars.
Tyler Foster
yeah, you did, faggot. "muh poor civies" the fear gambit won't work here. no one "Feared" fighting the battle, Oppenheimer and his guys made it so we didn't HAVE to fight.
you also cherry pick things here and there, but never really address your opponents. more logic fallacies. more bullshit. more faggotry. give up kid. your high school history teacher was dumb and wrong.
Hudson Hall
"Dude I'm going to kill you"
well fuck look at that your dead, but I warned you! Back to the bbq!
Isaiah Rodriguez
That isn't a justification
Also wasn't the logic used during the decition to bomb it. The fact hindsight shows that beyond all odds nuking this place twice has turned it into a pretty fucking good place to live wasn't around in the 40s
Jaxson Morgan
Right. So if you go into the city you're trying to capture and shoot every baby in the head to break their fighting spirit so they surrender then it's not a war crime because it was done with the intent to end the conflict
Sebastian Baker
The choice was hundreds of thousands of dead Americans and Japanese or just a bunch of dead Japs.
It's war the Yanks nuked those raping cunts, twice.
Kevin Edwards
More of that false equivalence thing with your shabby lil ISIS argument, I see. Some people are just incapable of learning or adapting to new concepts.
Josiah Powell
>when someone flies planes into your military aircraft carriers and declares war on you while being part of a regime that is exterminating Jews and Chinese like cattle you bomb his country
sorry i had to make ur statement factual
Logan Thompson
You are acting as though there is a unanimous consensus on what is "justified". It doesn't exist and it doesn't make sense. Who cares if it was justified or not? What truly matters is that it worked. As an American, that is all that matters to me.
David Roberts
you are a fucking troll and need to go outside....
Wyatt Walker
>And btw, you don't invade anyone's Homeland on foot, look how Vietnam and Korea turned out. and Iraq, and Afghanistan, and and and
Benjamin Diaz
Korea actually wasn't that bad, but Vietnam awful
Eli Butler
Exactly this, if the u.s didnt bomb japan, it would be on the same level as east germany.
Adam Roberts
i'm not condoning it. nuking anyone let alone civillian targets.
I find it all ironic, this world is backwards. people want peace so they start war to have peace. the young and brave fight for the old cowards...it is stupid.
america, "pretending" to get hit with the 9/11 attacks, then starting a war with iraaqwho publically had nothing to do with those attacks, then says we are doing it because they have weapons of mass destruction. like iraq, even if they had some don't know how to use them, when america is the only country to use them on people.....america don't know how to use nuclear power in a peaceful way! ironic and hypocritical