Any religious Sup Forumsros wanna discuss this...

Any religious Sup Forumsros wanna discuss this? My pastor has talked about how there is a presence of evil bigger than the Devil himself. After all, lucifer was corrupted by pride. But what created pride if this was before the time of Adam and Eve? There stands to reason that if God is all good, this is a powerful force out there that is all Evil. Thoughts on that?

Your pastor is full of shit
Evil is a natural byproduct of free will. Without the possibility of there being evil, there can exist no free will. God made free will a high priority when he made everything. That's all.

This sounds to me like the "who created God argument," which can be solved by saying that since you'd need a bigger God to create God, and an even bigger God to create that bigger God, and so on, it's best to believe in a God that's bigger than all the other gods and knows everything. Anyway, it's best to assume that the devil created all sin, which includes the sin of pride.

Angel's don't have free will tho. How does a fucking angel go against the one thing he was created for. How did Lucifer get corrupted. And don't tell me no bs that Angels have free will. That's one of the things they envy us for

There is no God.
There is no Devil.
There is no objective good or evil.
And the Bible is a book, no different from any other book.

Most hardcore theological questions are easily resolved by critically examining the fundamental unspoken assumption: that God is real. Since most religious people never seriously question that assumption, they go around in circles forever.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about yourself m8

if there is something like that out there, then god is not all powerful, because he can´t do shit against it. IF he won`t do shit against it , but he can, then god is not good (and therefore maybe evil himself).
Either way religion is stupid.

Congratulations, you discovered dualism.

But your logic is garbage. And your pastor isn't very good at theology, or you confused what he said. The Devil in Christianity is an anthropomorphism of "evil" to communicate with and convert pagan peasants who thought of natural forces as things with names and personalities.

Seriously. Replace every instance of The Devil with Evil, and the meaning is the same.

If objective morality exists, God exists. If there is no objective morality, then skinning you alive and then fucking you to death is as moral as eating a bowl of Cheerios, if I say it is.

Pick one.

Or, for the classically minded, Thomas Aquinas offered three proofs of God. Disprove them and become internationally famous. Otherwise, keep your arrogance under wraps. Your arbitrarily chosen belief system doesn't make you superior.

Holy Cringe. Pls proceed to fuck your sister and cut your dick as your skydaddy wants.

This should explain it user
kek
but seriously though, think about it

This is gonna take some time.
There must be an prior evil than Lucifer. He's a fallen angel and before that, must be the snake of the garden.
Even though, the snake couldn't have been created by any other than god. That's way, god is the source of all evil.

Also, this
According to those 2 Sup Forumsros, evil is in god's plan, so he made Lucifer proud, and the snake evil, and gave mankind the chance of being evil, and even being evil and unpunished.

So, the only question here is: There is a god?
I refuse to believe it, but I was raised as a christian, so, as far as I know about the christian god, he's a cunt, a sociopath and can't be trusted.

Faggot. See: You are literally too stupid for theology if all you can understand is "skydaddy." Please proceed to play your vidya and jerk off to pictures of women who are too good for you, you corrupt, arrogant, piece of shit.

The angels had one choice at the beginning when they were created. 2/3 stayed with God, and 1/3 chose to rebel with Lucifer

>It's an "athiest crash a religious thread" episode

tbh, is a fedora fag. but these proofs of god are mere wordplays. they are like calling these jokes about god's omnipotency disproofs of god.

In St.Augustine's confessions, he argues that evil is just the person's free will misdirecting God's gifts. So the farther away someone is from God, the more evil it is. Say so by example, a serial killer is farther from God than a normal human because he moves farther from God due to his misuse of gifts.
tl;dr evil doesn't exist, byproduct of freewill etc

In the Zoroastrian view of the world, which the early Abrahamic religion borrowed heavily from, there are two all powerful figures, a God that is all good, and an God that is all evil, and that the two are in constant conflict with each other. I think some of this thought carried over to the early Abrahamic religion, not the Judaism that's practiced today, but the one that the historical Abraham might have practiced.

Now just cause it's related to a game don't fag out on me and berate me cause of it
Actually think that if something as primal as a feeling which is as raw as you can get with existence was created from an event like the big bang for instance. I think personally that the big bang was first and that everything from religion possibly happened afterwards and who knows? maybe the god christ-tans believe in did exist and maybe the eastern european gods existed and Thor, Loki- The greek gods too even at one point. This is just what I believe though and no I have no proof anything did exist or may have but that's what our existence is isn't it?

Wrong on both counts re: objective morality. We humans decide what is moral, but we decide collectively. We figure out what's in our best interest as a species, then we develop moral rules to support that interest.

A question for you: if we discovered conclusively that God did not exist--never mind how exactly we would do that, this is a hypothetical--would you then feel free to start raping and murdering your neighbors? Probably not. Why? Because we know, based on empathy (unless you're a psychopath), that it's wrong to treat other people that way. And that conviction doesn't require a universal judge to scare us into compliance.

That's some bullshit. If an evil god made mankind, instead of a neutral or benevolent god, then it stands to reason that his creations are also evil.

Not more evil I mean, but rather in comparison of someone who's closer to God, and someone who's farther away, the person farther away looks evil.

do you people actually believe all this nonsense?

Actually, I wouldn't be caught dead in a fedora.

Religions are fairytales for grownups. Get over your imaginary friends.

why do you behave like one of these typical radical atheists then? why do you comment in a discussion you shouldn't even care about?

Two things:
1. Angels have/had free will. Lucifer wasn't the only one tempted.
2. God can create evil - he is seperate from it, but that doesn't mean he can't create it.

Also check out translations of 'good' from any solid koine translation

The ultimate power for good AND evil IS god you fucking moron, your pastor probably dildoes his anus

/thread

>Thomas Aquinas ... proofs of God
All of these proofs follow a number of axioms that end in "If at this point, I dont understand how to explain it, then god exists."

If this is what god is, then god is nothing but a placeholder to mark the boundary our understanding of the universe.

Antinous the Younger here -- I'm entranced by this question because of the genetics it points to. If you've unfamiliar with Manichaeism, I suggest you look it up, with an eye to how it competed with and was eventually beaten out by Christianity. As others have mentioned, its most salient appearance is via Augustine in Confessions, but there is a wider geographical context in how it competed not merely philosophically but popularly across late Antiquity. Once you see Christianity as the pastiche of Bronze-age religious tropes it was initially these theological questions will dissolve a bit.

Semi kek

Actually, I'm an ignostic. I believe that the very concept of God is incoherent, so it makes no sense to talk about it at all until somebody comes up with a workable definition.

>If objective morality exists, God exists
Morality and God are both constructs. They exist in the same way as opinions and beliefs exist. Morality and God both mean different things to different people. There is no absolute.

but what's the point in proclaiming your BELIEFS in a discussion about a topic that assumes god's existence?

I think it's important to point out to religious people that they have no rational basis for their beliefs, and that life becomes far easier and happier when you start questioning them.

And I don't consider it a belief. I've chosen not to believe in anything for which there is no evidence.

YOU'RE the one claiming to have an all-powerful invisible friend in the sky, so the burden of proof is on YOU.

yes, there is a greater evil, its called berny sanders and hillary clinton

Why does satan have 9 9 9 on his hand?

I never claimed that. I'm actually an agnostic myself. I just don't think this is a topic that will ever be scientifically explored. Therefore any opinion - even not believing anything - IS a belief.
I also think these discussions are interesting and i don't think you need to point out anything - christians know of the existence of atheism/agnosticism and there's a reason they haven't switched to that yet.