Tfw classical music is literally just rules and conventions

>tfw classical music is literally just rules and conventions
>tfw it took us centuries to get to something as free and innovative as Velvet Underground and Nico

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having some trouble with your music theory there friend?

>i am grossly ignorant of art music's history

having trouble with your taste there friend?

I mean, guitars have been around for such a long time, there must've been someone playing punk on a shitty acoustic in the 19th century

>folk punk
no thanks lmao

literally this
classical music is way too static and composed, not free enough

>despite this being a shitpost, 90% of this board unironically thinks something like that

Why would I need theory to appreciate art? That's how circlejerking works, true pieces of art stand by themselves.

Fuck off, Beethoven and Mozart sounded like everyone else.

maybe music like that did exist, it's just way too ahead of its time so it didn't get known

...

They are right.
True innovations stands in tone. Guitar is better than piano to make new art.

guitar is shit tho

Ahw... it's a clairejohnfruscianteredneckretard eccehuomo

Guitar can achieve way more than piano.

I will give you that usually virtuosistic guitars sound like shit, truly vulgar. If you want to develop your music through complex melodies you should stick to violins and pianos. if you want to create a great image tho an electric guitar is perfect,

>Who is Stravinsky, Arvo Part, Stockhausen, Cage, etc.

Also no, Beethoven and Mozart did not sound like everyone else. This proves that you are musically incompetent and that you should find another artform to enjoy.

>if you want to create a great image tho an electric guitar is perfect,
a computer is even better

Not him but

>Cage

Fuck off.
This is now a John Cage hate thread.

>He doesn't know that these innovations came from classical composers

Cage may be a hack, but he is important nonetheless.

Given the range of sounds you can achieve on guitar through pedals I see them as equals. You're basically comparing minor infinite of tones (guitar) to a major infinite of tones (computers).

damn
it takes talent to be this retarded

The only important thing about his career music is his written definition of music.
That really doesn't justify how uninteresting all of his music is, especially considering the successes that the Musique Concrete movement achieved.

>Fuck off, Beethoven and Mozart sounded like everyone else.

two completely different composers with completely different backgrounds, contexts, ideals and strengths
you're an idiot

nice argument you've got there.

>The only important thing about his career music is his written definition of music.
This matters though. I don't like Cage, but he is very important, hence i quoted him.

the self-righteousness in this thread is overwhelming

goodbye

your foundation barely exists so i don't think it's an argument you're looking for

thanks m8

That may matter but it still doesn't justify his music, hence he shouldn't be quoted among the best composers of the century. At best he is one of the shallowest aesthetic philosophers.

>Why would I need theory to appreciate art? That's how circlejerking works, true pieces of art stand by themselves.
Why would you venerate innovation as the end all, be all in art? That's just as circlejerky as judging everything by the criteria of theory.
If I go shoot my Labrador Etsubatsu in the balls with a BB gun and make a field recording of it, it would be incredibly innovative but still objectively garbage to everyone but people like yourself who want to appear refined to anonymous posters on the internet.

>it's a rockists gets mad he can't understand stravinsky episode

It's worse than that, he can't even understand Beethoven and Mozart.

yall retarded

I wasn't quoting the best, but the most important.
(Stravinsky is one of my favourite composers though)

You dont need to understand him to apprwciate something like Petrushka though.

As a somewhat uninformed and ignorant listener Stravinsky is way easier to listen to than Mozart.
The latter is way more uniform and it is percieved as boring way more often. I guess people just mistake the melodic perfection they're hearing with bland formalism.

This, really

>I guess people just mistake the melodic perfection they're hearing with bland formalism.

I've been there and can confirm.
I really started to appreciate art music when i started composing

You are fucking retarded.

There are way too many high schoolers, blacks and women on this board.

>classical music is literally just rules and conventions
>classical music is way too static and composed, not free enough
>Fuck off, Beethoven and Mozart sounded like everyone else.
>maybe music like that did exist, it's just way too ahead of its time so it didn't get known
>True innovations stands in tone. Guitar is better than piano to make new art.
>The only important thing about his career music is his written definition of music.
>I really started to appreciate art music when i started composing

>greentext

>greentext

The only good rock musicians are some of the ultra-classical esque prog ones, and even then they're not very good. Rules and conventions and exploring why they exist is what makes beautiful art that we can all enjoy. Dissonant atonal wank only serves to please degenerates who enjoy watching the common man suffer.

>no argument whatsoever

Nice shitpost.

>>I really started to appreciate art music when i started composing
what's wrong with that statement ?

>understand instrumental music

there's nothing to understand, it's just music, formulaic one

CONTAINMENT
Are you triggered big guy? Have visions of a burly black adonis slinking out of your mother's bedroom come flooding bsck? Do you smell his cologne? It makes you hard doesnt it. You jacked off to the sounds of your mother getting rammed through her bedroom wall. You alt-right beta-cuck nu-males make me laugh. If only you knew how obviously insecure and frustrated you are!
Top kek
O e
P k

>tfw classical music is literally just rules and conventions
if this is true then how did Beethoven manage to write first ever black music?
youtube.com/watch?v=uQMCfqFr4XA

Give it a break you classical-obsessed idiots. Learning how to play, say, a Chopin Etude on piano is about as hard as learning C++ or something. It's just a bunch of rules/muscle memory. Sure you can add a little flair when it says "espressivo" in the sheet music or something but come the fuck on. It's 2016.

Half of the mouth-breathing morons that call people "degenerates" for liking Schoenberg or something probably couldn't even draw a tone matrix

lmao where do you think the music you listen to now comes from?

COME ON PEOPLE
ITS
THE
CURRENT
YEAR

Name the rules and conventions that apply to all classical music then.
Everything that gives the modern electric guitar it's many different ranges of sound is not everything but the guitar, it's basically computers. Add a computer to a piano and you'll get thesame of not better results.

Oh wait they already did that.

Obviously you know nothing of phrasing.

>Everything that gives the modern electric guitar it's many different ranges of sound is not everything but the guitar, it's basically computers. Add a computer to a piano and you'll get thesame of not better results.

Guitar offers way more dynamics than a normal keyboard.

incomparable regardless

You can imitate a syntethizer with a guitar, you can't do the reverse.

virtuosic classical guitar is pretty cool though user, listen to some segovia or john williams

Classical is such a gentler instrument, I would never include its repertoire in electric guitar repertoire.
It's just another world.

lots of projection in this post

bait

Bending and that's it.

>Guitar offers way more dynamics than a normal keyboard.
A guitar plugged into an amplifier vs. an acoustic piano, yes. If you plug in a piano to an amplifier that "advantage" is numb.

>You can imitate a syntethizer with a guitar, you can't do the reverse.
So? you can imitate a steamroller with a plane (crush stuff), you can't do the reverse (fly).

It doesn't mean anything.

Sure, you can bend and do vibrato on guitar, so that's two. You can make bigger and more lush harmonies on piano, you can play more polyphonic (several different things at the same time), you can plug a regular grand piano up to a computer and do everything that a guitar pedal makes possible.

youtu.be/XuMSopdrWSQ
44:40
You're welcome.

>something as free and innovative as Velvet Underground and Nico
I know you're shitposting but classical music has far more progression than anything on VU&N

>this thread
What's the point of a music board if I get the same quality discussion here than with my 10 year old nephew?

shut up poopy head

Maybe this is wasted on Sup Forums, being utterly plebeian compared with /his/ or /lit/. But classical and popular music are obviously different mediums and therefore demand different critiques and appreciation.

The distinction is primarily technological and cultural. And the difference between classical & popular music is analogous to that between theatre & film, or between painting & photography, if that helps. In each case, the earlier art form was less complex technologically, and this meant that greater technical skill was required of the artist in order to bring the audience pleasure. This in some ways explains why the modern equivalents are less prestigious, the technical ability is shared between more people (people who invented the electrical tools, aid the production, etc) and therefore is less 'pure', more multi-medium.

I won't get into the cultural differences between each era, as I think that also contributes to the appearance of lesser skill in the modern mediums. But the arguments in favour of modern art are that it is more immersive and
ultimately more complex (when you total all the multiple aspects), not OP's 'freedom' and 'innovation'. The latter are ironically the kinds of cultural difference that DETRACTS from modern art. OP is degenerate, that is why he doesn't appreciate the older forms, and mistakes the true advantages of the newer forms.

wrong.

wow awful post kill yourself

my favourite type of argument

oh dear

>tfw a shitpost gets under your skin

>two completely different composers with completely different backgrounds, contexts, ideals and strengths
>doesnt say anything about sound

Maybe if all you listen to is baroque and classical era music. After that people started getting more experimental

what the fuck are you even talking about you prentious nerd

hows music and music different mediums thats like saying poetry and novels are different medium lolz kys my man

meant for of course

They really didn't.
If baroque and classical doesn't sound experimental to you is because you're not contextualizing them.

fuck skill
u right though

he''s saying the INSTRUMENTS were worse, so the PLAYERS were better
However the instruments were the fuckign same so he is wrong

>beethoven goes V-I
>dude it's not a convention you just have to contextualizeeee

Do you think conventions were the same 200 years ago or something?
Beethoven was a great innovator, all the great composers like himself, Bach or Mozart were at some degree, and some other composers like Prokofiev or Stravinsky provoked literal riots with some of their works.
And that's still somewhat grounded, not even beginning with Stockhausen or Russiolo.
Western art music has far more creativity than any other genre, and this isn't even bragging, it's just a given that a "genre" in which people that actually study music academically and compose pieces for intellectual purposes instead of purely making money would be more creative than anything else.

popular music isn't written by trained composers, and is therefor of much lower quality. Popular musicians dont really know what they're doing and stick to what "sounds good" to them.

Classical composers also use the rules of "sounds good", and many these days include improvisations or interpretation in their pieces - a piece with black smudges on the paper that a performer must interpret and could be different in each performance for example.
Classical composers then also have all the options available from their knowledge of theory, giving them more options - see pic

Knowledge and creativity are separate. Knowledge allows your creativity more options.

Mozart plays a piano, I play laptop

have you had lessons though, or are you just an amateur laptop player?

Its not really an instrument, but producing music is a form of composition. With enough knowledge you can even make classical music using a laptop.

Nah, most of the rules were established based on what the composers were doing, not the other way around as you are thinking. Not to mention that TVU&N held itself to a more restrictive version of the same rules you are lambasting with its simple progressions, and that counts for its timber based innovations, too as Stockhausen did a far more complex take on that years before that album on Kontakt.

It doesn't get more random and serialist than stuff like Game (chance) music and some of the electronic works in classical.

Nah, it's why we have a fuck ton of different interpretations on the same work released with the performances of different Symphony Orchestras and Conductors.

Kinda goes off the wrong a bit there with your technological shtick considering it was classical that was fucking with electronic music far before it entered popular music, and still does the absolute craziest stuff with it.

>Kinda goes off the wrong a bit there with your technological shtick considering it was classical that was fucking with electronic music far before it entered popular music, and still does the absolute craziest stuff with it.
If you bothered to read what I wrote instead of reactively posting to any mention of technology, you would know I wasn't referring to instrumentation. Painters (misnomer) are also likely more skilled with electronics than photographers (again) are, too.

Why? Because of sound?

Every single not you can play on a guitar can be played on a piano and vice versa

>this thread
Mozart is infinitely more interesting than Stockhausen and certainly more interesting than shit like Autechre and TVU.

Wrong-ish, wrong, right
Learn to sound design

>sound design
Doesn't mean anything.
Stockhausen is trash and Mozart was one of the most imaginative composers to have lived. He, among other things, introduced sonata forms into the opera, greatly expanded the role of winds in his piano concerti, and was one of the greatest masters of counterpoint after Bach.

Stockhausen makes terrible music that namedrops random deities and wants you to sit on specific cushions while doing so.

>sound design doesn't mean anything
Yea it does

But you know what, you are right about Mozart. I still like Stockhausen though

/thread

>If I go shoot my Labrador Etsubatsu in the balls with a BB gun and make a field recording of it, it would be incredibly innovative

no it wouldn't.

I bet you listened to a piece widely considered to be a masterpiece, didn't really like it, and instead of just chalking it up to taste you decide it's total shit and there's something wrong with everyone else who dared enjoy it.

>playing the piano involves muscle memory
thank you for this truly insightful discovery

But he also goes I VI. I III. You don't know anything.

Boo hoo go fuck yourself you whiny faggot. Go be a little self-worshiping libtard, you Satan-worshiping piece of worthless shit. You think you're a good guy? You're not. You're a bad person. Everyone is bad except for Jesus. I'm sorry for you, your parents must be complete retards. And you think you can spit on this peaceful and prosperous land built by my people who worshiped Jesus/God since arriving here in the 1600s, and you think you can worship Satan on this land? You should be hanged, faggot. Now that Trump is President, you better be a good little boy. We're a lot less lenient than that faggot nigger Obama. We want a comfy society for people who worship God. If you are unwilling to submit to Jesus, the one true God, we will destroy you. If we were like Jesus, we would let you overcome us, but we are flawed sinners, who want to live in a comfy society. If you want to worship your own power instead of thanking God and repenting, if you want to worship your own strength, I'm sorry for the pain you will feel. We don't give a fuck about the 'sins of our past', nigger. God forgives those who repent. If you think that was bad, our damage output is going to be off the charts after all these years of being held down by the satanic establishment. Try us, little bitch

Weak

>Using the current year argument
i really need to stay off this board