Any Computer Science bros? How hard was it to major in it in college? What job do you have right now...

Any Computer Science bros? How hard was it to major in it in college? What job do you have right now? Is it true you have to know a lot of math? What programming languages do you know?

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Hey CS here. The math sucks dick. Im about 75% of the way through. Got an internship a few months ago, making 12/hr. Its hard but so worth it, lots of fun. Currently pretty good at java, php, c#, JS, and pea thon.

Word of warning though, major is full of mouth breathing weeb aspie neckbeards, you'll need to meet peoplr outside of your classes to go to parties/have sex

I received my BS in CS in 2003 where I meaning did work in C++ and Java, then promptly got a job doing web development in PHP.

Probably 90% of what I use on a daily basis I learned after college.

Regarding math, you'll probably be required to learn some Calculus as part of your degree, but will never need anything beyond the simplest algebra unless you're programming something that actually involves math. In my case, I had to take 3 Calculus classes and hated it. Calculus was the worst part of my CS degree because it was something I totally did not need.

As far as programming languages, it doesn't matter what languages you know. What matters is your knowledge of general programming best-practices. Once you learn one language, you can learn other easily.

In my job, I primarily use PHP, with some JavaScript, MySQL (not a programming language but important) and a tiny bit of HTML/CSS (if you consider those programming languages). Specifically, I use a framework/CMS called Drupal which takes care of typical stuff most websites need so you can focus on stuff specific to the website in question.

No matter what aspect of CS you get into, there's a good chance you will benefit from a familiarity with Linux.

Some general advice:
- Always test your code
- Always save and backup your work
- Always keep security in mind
- Always ask for help when you don't understand something
- Never make assumptions

One more thing--

Make your code as easy to understand as possible. Just because you can reduce 5 lines of code down to 1 doesn't mean you should.

What's important is that when somebody's troubleshooting a problem, they can easily understand what your code does. Part of this is by providing clear, helpful comments.

Thanks, anons.
Is there anything I need to do before going into CS? Like learning a programming language? Strengthening my math skills?

Nursefag here, what's the money like with a CS degree? I'm pulling in 60k a year but I need a bigger check, what are my options?

funny tho first thing I do is remove all annotations whenever I work with someone else's code

just doesnt look clean, and the gibberish he wrote isnt explaining shit either 95% of the time

Typically you will take classes that teach programming.

Went to college with no prior knowledge of programming and got a BS in Comp Sci. If you are good at critical thinking and logic you will be fine. Also, you won't learn shit until you get out of college and get a real job. So just try and impress all the people you need to get a basic programming job and you'll learn what you like and don't like

Lol what a fucking moron...

How difficult is college Calculus?

Also,

I mainly work in Java, Javascript, AngularJS, HTML, CSS. I do mostly front end development but when needed I have to switch to the mid tier too. My math has always been decent but you won't be crunching numbers like you do in school while programming. I work for a financial company.

Become a hobby programmer. Doesn't even have to be too hard core. Just a mess around learning Python/Java (quite common in first year classes) and making your own random shit. There's a lot of free tools online to help you, such as codecademy.com/

Definitely was incredibly helpful to be experienced with general programming basics before I got into University.

It's not fun. I had the choice between calc 2 and stat 2 and took stat haha. I failed calc the first time and had to retake it. Made it by by the skin of my teeth but my other grades brought my gpa back up

I make 73K/year working from home. I could pretty easily make over 100K if I was willing to move to a big city or, probably in general, work harder.

It's cushy as hell. The challenge for me was finding a company run by non-douchebags

lol "make it easier to read because i'm too lazy to take 20 seconds and properly read your code" fuck off

It might be better to correct inaccurate comments rather than remove them all.

I'm pretty young and new to all this, user. Starting college soon.

We had timed tests and were not allowed to use calculators. So basically, all of my grades were lower due to rushed arithmetic errors.

To be fair, I never did any homework because I hated Calculus and thought (correctly) that I'd never need it.

I passed my final Calculus class with a D-, and I'm pretty sure the professor was just being nice.

I'm graduating with my associates degree in computer systems and network technology in 3 weeks, and we haven't gone over any programming languages. Am I fucked for the real world?

What you should be asking is Is getting a CS better than a SE degree

I was a nurse for 20+ years making your money. I got a job is a software qa engineer and increased my pay immediately by 7k. I am in my final year of BS in IT and from what my employer pays, I'll be getting a 20k raise from there. Needless to say, I'm firmly of the opinion that nursing can fuck off for how little it pays.

Haters gonna hate.

What kind of work do you do? Do you get paid through contracts or are you salaried? I need a good stay at home job.

Not sure what alternate reality you're coming from, but well-commented code is standard practice everywhere.

Either you're a troll or you think you're better than you are.

Comments are guidelines. You're meant to read them to know what the previous programmer was trying to do.

Obviously, both comments and code should be well-written.

In my job, there are coding standards that *require* me to use comments.

Good luck telling your boss you refuse to comment your code.

Have you ever actually held a programming job or are you just full of shit due to lack of experience?

One advice is that don't let the failed neckbeards doscourage you, give it a shot. Yes, math can be hard but it isn't as hard and impossible as many people say. If you're interested and go to classes you should be okay

>- Always test your code
This is worth it's time in gold.
>- Always save and backup your work
Even better:
Version Control System every fucking text file you ever edit (via git, svn, whatever).
It's irreplacable if you need it, and almost no effort if you end up not to do so.
>- Always keep security in mind
But don't do your own crypto shit. Use what's available, and:
>- Always ask for help when you don't understand something
StackOverflow, etc are there for you. IRC with the devs, and mailing lists, too. Nobody benefits if no questions are asked. Expect to be asked yourself.
>- Never make assumptions
And don't let others make assumptions, more than one system failed because of lacking documentation and wrong mental models.

It's a salary job. I tried contracting but didn't like it due to the instability.

I'm a Drupal (PHP framework/cms) developer supporting a Drupal-based product.

lol, sorry you have a shitty dead end job that REQUIRES you to write comments on your code than actually have an articulate group of programmers who are constantly talking instead of stuttering "J-j-j-just write it in the comments" fuck off weeb

Indeed. There are many things that can be done for reasons that are not obvious in code, and for that commenting is crucial lest that knowledge get lost, especially in a cleanup later.

Yeah, fair point. I completely forgot to mention version control. We use git.

CS is applied mathematics. If you suck at math you're gonna suck at CS. Don't need a CS degree to code though. I mean, you'll probably suck, but that's ok too. Still can make ok coin and I make big bucks fixing shit done by idiots. Plenty of people with degrees that can't code. I've met people with advance degrees that can't code worth shit (masters, phd). Not uncommon. There is a class of people that end up taking advance degrees because they can't hack it in the real world. They just hang out in the lala land of academia.

There are a few unicorns out there that are god tier coders that don't have a degree. The couple I know are god damn geniuses. One dropped out of uni at 16 to make crazy money in the dotcom era. Never ended up finishing a degree but gets tons of contract work based off his skills. People seek him out.

I code whatever the job requires. If you know your shit, you should be able to pick up any language quick. Currently I do stuff in gambling. It pays six figures, so that works. It's also slack as fuck.

readability > performance
Ensure that the guy that maintains your shit after you're done dosn't foam with rage at Chances are you're maintaining someone else's old shit anyways.
Programming is a requirement (so you should know at least one language really well), but that's not really what (non-academic) CS is about. It's more of a documentation/organization/solution/architecture development and implementation discipline. Management and communication skills may even be more important than programming ability.
CS/nettech? You'll most likely do 90% server/network maintainance. Learn any scripting language well; it'll save you hundreds of hours.

>How hard was it to major in it in college?

Not really. It helps if you get study groups together - I had a real fun time hanging out with others and getting the concepts. Also helps if you do extracurricular things like ACM.

>What job do you have right now?

software engineer, making $100,000

>Is it true you have to know a lot of math?

Not a whole lot. I actually liked the computer science-specific math courses like computability theory and discrete math. Embrace it. Again, you have lots of friends to help you. There probably is more math now than when I studied 20 years ago.

>What programming languages do you know?

By end of college I knew C (most everything was C back then), C++, Java, Perl, Visual Basic, Pascal. Again those are ancient skills. Now you might add Python and C# to that list and a functional language like Haskell, while maybe dropping C++ and more likely dropping Perl and Visual Basic.

Oh, and you'd definately drop Pascal, which was kind-of a stupid thing to learn even back then.

I'm like 90% sure you're trolling.

For anybody else reading:

There's nothing wrong with including comments within one's code.

Nothing's stopping you from reading the associate code to make sure the comment is accurate.

Nothing's stopping you from changing an inaccurate comment.

And, "programmers who are constantly talking"? How do you expect that to scale?

Dialogue associated with code should take place within a ticketing system to so it's documented and backed up.

Comments are nothing more than inline documentation.

When you have a programming job, your will likely be assigned tasks via a ticketing system. After you commit a change, you have to explain what you did.

What do you think happens if that explanation is incorrect? It's no different than an incorrect comment.

Your seemingly trollish logic is very flawed.

Is this all with a AS in CS? Or did you get a BS or higher?

Kind of guy I was talking about. No. Unless you plan to graduate from a world-class University, CS and programming degrees are far from applied math.
There is math, but not as deep, not as much. This guy was bad at math, but this does not mean that you have to be a genius or talented to get a CS degree.

What languages did you study? And do you work from home or commute?

Any anons like distributed programming?

BS in CS. But in my line of work, you don't actually need a degree at all, you just need the right skills.

I have an old boss who ended up working on whitehouse.gov. Guy never went to college, yet helped build a site such as that.

College helps, but knowing somebody who already works somewhere so you can get a good recommendation is probably as good as a college degree, if not more so.

In fact, I got every single job I've had, except the first one, based on knowing somebody at the new job.

Nobody has asked me what my college GPA was except during my first job, when I had almost no work experience.

In the end, people care about what you can do and if you can be trusted.

What's the different between programming and scripting? I keep seeing stuff about compiling codes and such. Explain please?

The math is actually sort of fun if you don't go in looking at it as a chore.

My advice is put your pride behind you for a bit and start with the basics (even if that means going back to the very beginning). Use Khan academy and Paul's online math notes, or get a text book

Started as a SE major, switched to pure mathematics because it was cooler. An engineering curriculum will have way less math. A CS curriculum _is math_. But if you want to work as a programmer the vast majority of your work will be simple arithmetic.

Currently a senior cloud architect, 145k. A few tips:

- if you're going to be a developer learn something in the operational space. DevOps is hot shit right now and you'll make way more there. You don't need to be an expert, just some basic networking and Linux admin will go a long way to get you hired
- stay way the fuck out of major tech spaces - you'll get eaten alive in San Fran or NYC. Find a large city with low cost of living, you will be a huge fish in the small pond.
- don't be afraid of big companies. Lots of programmers turn their noses up but they pay well

Oh yeah - currently use Go and Ruby mostly, with some Clojure where we already run JVM stuff.

>How hard was it to major in it in college?
US work load was a joke, germany had large theoretical foudnations
>What job do you have right now?
Library architecture and API design.
>Is it true you have to know a lot of math?
Algebra will be most of what you do, but you absolutely must understand the concepts in the higher stuff to understand otherwise opaque processes and journal papers, even if you never use any of that math yourself.
>What programming languages do you know?
Scheme, Clojure, Haskell, Perl, C, FORTRAN, Java, Python and bits of some others. It gets to the point where picking them up is almost trivial. You'll get projects in the weirdest languages that you're expected to integrate with.

>COBOL
once. for a banking backend thing. please never again.

This is either bait, you've never worked with anyone else's code, or your documentation sucks ass.

I'm British so I dunno how much this'd help you, but I did a Comp Sci degree, currently earning £30k been in industry just under 2 years. Professionally I deal with Java, but at Uni I learnt C++ and C#, with little bits of other languages.

The degree wasn't too bad, as most of the maths in applied so it's interesting stuff like programming fastest routes and stuff.

Anyway go for it, I enjoyed it and it lead to a frankly easy career that earns you plenty of cash.

user there is something you must not forget.
Computer science is not only programming.
There are numerous branches you can choose such as network,hardware,software and even more sub-branches such as subneting,software developer,studying algorithms,artificial inteligence,distributed programming,web developer,game developer and it goes on forever.
College is not going to make you a master.
You have to find what you like mostly and go on with that.

What kind of shit tier uni is CS not applied mathematics? Nearly all my courses were thinly veiled math courses. My DB course was mainly lambda calculus.

With the people I work with, a software engineering degree seems to be a better base for coding. CS is good if you want to do research. Seng is better if you want to actually make software.

End of the day you just have to be smart. Anyone I know that can code worth anything is smart. It's problem solving and acquiring new skills quickly.

Currently reading after doing Erlang shit for a while:
>Copy of Distributed Systems: Principles and Paradigms.
It's kinda neat.

So obvious you don't know the real world

Someone's gonna give a technically correct answer that talks about compiled machine instructions vs a VM interpreting instructions, blah blah blah

Here's the real meaning, if you hear it in the world:

"Scripting" is what you pay stinky Indians $20 a week to do.
"Programming" is what you call it when it's way above Rajit and Krishaswarmathy's level.

Do you work on linux or windows?

google.com/about/careers/students/guide-to-technical-development.html

It was quite challenging. But if it is for you, you will enjoy the hell out of it. The amount of math you need, depends on what you plan on doing. More like applied mathematics. A lot of the programming languages are the same, only difference is some style or syntax.

Not the same person but I think having a good descriptive naming convention when it comes to variables and methods is more useful then having blocks of comments describing what the code is doing.

Comments are useful when you need document a decision made but you shouldn't be commenting every API call.

Massively simplified:
Programming is telling the system or anything in it what to do automatically.
Scripting is telling a program on the system what to do automatically.
You've got text files that must be translated before the computer can read them. If you do this before the program is run its compiling, if you're handing them to a program that runs it directly its scripting.

this user is absolutely correct

A real CS degree is math. It will help you with solid fundamentals of algorithms that most self-taught programmers and many software engineer students don't have.

That can be an advantage but only if you have a solid understanding of programming already.

Clojure's the shit, man.
Try out Rust if you ever feel golang lacking. It may be an alternative

agreed with most of these points except

>you'll probably be required to learn some Calculus as part of your degree

where the fuck did you go to school? For my CS degree half the classes were discrete math, linear algebra and in the last year or two a fuck ton of finite automata and mathematical proofs. On top of the standard 3 years of calculus etc

dude I was a physics major until like halfway through junior year, never programmed a single line until then. You'll be fine. Besides, most people on this planet who work as coders are absolutely shitty at it, so if you can even do basic algorithms and write decent code you'll have a job forever

691295968 here
>good descriptive naming convention [...] is more useful then having blocks of comments
Yes. Ideally, code should be self documenting, and language constructs should support that code. I'm not arguing for javadoc-like comments on every single thing, but that comments have a place and a time to be used and should be required at those times.
It's more of a less-is-more kind of thing imo.
I think the user was implying to do all documentation verbally with coworkers instead of keeping in-code docs as needed and detailed external {design,architecture,requirements} documents on the side.

In school? Fuck, that was a while ago. My school was heavy on Java. Did some C and some C++, did some assembly, scheme, OCaml, matlab/octave.. I didn't really study any language. Just used what was needed for the coursework. Matlab/octave is incredibly useful though. Glad I got to know that a bit. Quite useful in an R&D group.

The one thing I'd recommend to anyone in school is wrap your head around functional languages. Procedural is easy. Functional has a learning curve that I've rarely seen anyone get over in the working world.

Currently work from home mainly, though I do have to travel for work (in my current job). Guys who work for me work from home too. Used to do the whole 9-5 office shit. Fuck that. One guy working for me was most productive 11pm on. Good luck getting him to show up to a physical office by 11am. Meet up for coffee every few weeks and just delegate shit via email or im. That's the perk of being reliable and fucking good at what you do.

linux 95% of the time privately and at work
win7 and below otherwise, on rare occasions

how the fuck is this college level math? Didnt you guys take calc through 2 in hs, and stats? College level math should be far more fucking advanced than hs level stats and calc 2 if you plan on programming for a living

I took AP Calculus. Is that good enough?

Not leaving these unchecked

>thinly veiled math courses
perfectly on point

CS is pure theory, which is necessarily all math-derived.
SE is mostly management, code integration and maintainance, and lots of writing docs, sepecifications, etc.
Both require the problem-analysis-design-solution cycle and just happen to use the same tools. It's like equating carpentry and plumbers' work because they both need hammers.

yeah hes trolling, just ignore him

Sorry for assuming that you were taking a javadoc-like stance but I've had a lot co-workers like that and I've had issues in the past working on projects that were poorly written and had plenty of comments that were misleading.

There definitely shouldn't be a reliance on verbal communication since often you'll come back to a project that no one has worked on for a few months.

My typical usage I guess with comments is to document why it works a certain way and not how since the code already describes that.

very true

also to add to that - don't get into super low-level so-called "programming". This includes:

>basic level web designer
>image to html developer
>basic wordpress stuff

These are good skills to have, but much of the billable work is being done by slaveshops in india and thailand and poland for people working for 1$ and hour, pumping out fuck tons of projects. They can do anything simple cheaper and faster. But if there is even a hint of complexity or nuance to the project, they will fuck it up. The sort of thing where you get a finished project with "Translated string goes here" on the actual output because their brainless workerbees, not thinking humans.

Instead, try to specialise or focus on a field that requires some thinking. Things involving high-level design, complex architecture decisions, artistry and creativity, complex algorithms, tough bug finding and fixing. These jobs are super well paid and actually will continue to exist in first world countries for a while

I make 120k/year working with Clojure and Scala. I majored in CS and had shit grades/no internship, but did really cool shit on the side and put it on my github, and contributed to oss.

CS degree was fucking hard, fuck what everyone else says. I'm glad to be done with school and would never ever go back.

That's the big difference. It doesn't matter in all jobs (e.g web monkey), but it makes a huge difference in doing things right and knowing the difference between premature optimization and doing something right. Self taught coders are often going to write the equivalent to bubble sort for most of their algorithms. There are educated people that should know better that just don't understand complexity theory.

>That can be an advantage but only if you have a solid understanding of programming already.

Not sure I agree there. Depends on what you mean. To me there are two classes of people: those who understand writing software and those that don't. There are people who just seem to get it and the majority that bumble along (many who think they get it). People who see the details and the overall picture at the same time (forest and the trees).

I use math every day. Sometimes indirectly, but I lean on my understanding of discrete and combinatorial math, linear algebra etc every god damn day.

First, you learn boolean logic operations
then, you learn transistor logic
then, you learn how to build functional units from logic gates
then, you learn CPU design
then, and only then, you learn assembly language
then, after you have mastered assembly language (not dabbled, but mastered it), you learn C
then, after you have mastered C, you may learn the higher-level languages of your choice, but you will always use C and assembly as your primary languages because everything else is unnecessary bloat.

To truly understand what's going on and to make you a more competitive applicant when looking for jobs, you should also make it a goal to learn linear algebra, number theory, and at least the equivalent to a first course in abstract algebra. Good luck op.

>if you can even do basic algorithms and write decent code you'll have a job forever

THIS

Plenty of jobs. Most employers have no clue. If it works, you are awesome. You do magic.

Agreed - but counterpoint:

I got a degree in CS from a top-25 school, learned all sorts of theoretical shit but our professors couldnt actually code for shit. So, when I actually started working, I had to learn all the programming pieces

However, all those years of methodical algorithms and data structures and math meant that once I figured out version control and best practices and workplace stuff (which took like a couple weeks) I was immediately better than many people who had been coding for years, because they were pros at the details but never really had great fundamentals

when you're used to struggling with fucking theoretical computation proofs, figuring out how git works is trivial

I feel you, user.

Verbal comm is nice when the original devs are still around, but I do mostly maintainance of old code, and it's almost never the case.

>why it works a certain way and not how since [...]
I wish more prople would do this.

Most of my comments reference other resources, or describe why a certain ugly/unintuitive/strange/hacky bit of code or implementation was chosen, usually with with W3 links or bugtracker references. It's like an Implementation commentary for me.

Also: Outdated docs are often worse than no docs.

lol ok gramps

Another argument from set-theory:
If you can do 'hard' programming it's trivial effort to 'get' the 'soft' programming. On the other hand, when you're fixed on the special case of 'soft' programming, it's infinitely harder to accept and internalize the general 'hard' programming.

> CS degree from a top-25 school

See that's the thing - op clearly isn't in a position for that. Or else he clearly wouldn't be asking about how hard the math is.

So for him, the choice is a CS degree from bumblefuck state, or a SE from bumblefuck state. and if his resume came across my desk (lol as if I'd work at a shit company but anyways) I'd almost certainly take the shit-tier programmer over the no-tier programmer

Is scala worth the runtime performance over clojure? Or are you too tied to the JVM to use haskell-likes? What makes scala attractive to you?

I've interviewed a few dozen people at this point for various programming jobs... this in one of the major tech hubs in the USA, for a decent software company, for well paying jobs.

YOU WOULDNT BELIEVE HOW SHIT MOST PEOPLE REALLY ARE

Ive interviewed people who had 10 years of senior developer experience, yet when I asked them to write a simple string parsing program, just said "No, I cant do that"

I just found an issue from a guy we fired years ago, where to determine whether an object was either a mobile phone or home phone, he was SCRAPING THE HTML PAGE AND PARSING THE INPUTS, LOOKING FOR A STRING. If he didnt find it, he just defaulted to home... instead of just asking for home/mobile

About 50% of the people I've hired I end up letting go within a year, because they're both incompetent and overconfident and argumentative

I may love building things with code but I fucking hate most coders. the only place I've ever been where I thought hey these people know what theyre doing was Palantir and that's like the top 0.1%

>IT
>dl Adobe Reader

Just finished my first year and so far it's pretty easy, really digging it

programming is mostly discrete math (Think placing objects into bins, not sliding scales of numbers) but at least you won't be wasting time taking calc 1 and 2 in college

>However, all those years of methodical algorithms and data structures and math meant that once I figured out version control and best practices and workplace stuff (which took like a couple weeks) I was immediately better than many people who had been coding for years, because they were pros at the details but never really had great fundamentals

Coding is easy when you know your fundamentals. You are just implementing the solution in a particular language using particular tools. How do you implement a particular data structure in language X? It's a google search away. The tough part is knowing what you need to implement, not syntax and tool commands.

Not sure I agree. I didn't to it this way, and thus cannot quantify the merits, but is it not also reasonable to start in the middle and work both ways?
In addition, choosing only C and assembly seems almost like bait. Is it not your duty to use the "best" tool for the job as a developer? Do you see no improvements in the work of academics and businesses over the last few decades?

what city

One point to add - I may enjoy the more complex problems where I have to come up with something clever and elegant... but 90% of problems are more easily solved just using a standard library and getting it quickly, because what algorithm you use to find a word in a rarely used textbox in the settings window of some enterprise program isnt worth optimizing, and I have a million deadlines to hit

lol

he's trying to get a job making intranet HR applications, not building an OS from the ground up

> it's pretty easy
Nice that you think so. Use that spare time to get ahead; read papers, attend the research work being done, etc. Really, I recommend it.

definitely - sorry if that came off as pretentious or reducing - what I meant was, even at a place that is generally considered to be producing great CS graduates, we didn't learn a whole lot of "programming". Most of the best students and professors there would make terrible developers actually

So wherever this guy goes, he should focus on the fundamentals and math just enough to have a solid foundation on which to add the programming pieces, because those pieces are easy

Anyone here cybersecuirty?

yeah I feel like every time I tell some stranger at a wedding or dinner or something that I'm a programmer their response is

>Oh cool - so what language do you use?

I'm always like... uhhh whatever I need to at that moment?

Its like asking someone who drives what roads they use

Nigga im gonna drive wherever i have to to get to where I have to be, roads are mostly the same and if I come across something really different like a river or mountain or something I'll figure it out

best greentext

or, even better, work on your own side projects. The most successful coders have things they build in their freetime and are passionate about

cybersquirty

>"Oh, you're one of those computer people."

>YOU WOULDNT BELIEVE HOW SHIT MOST PEOPLE REALLY ARE

Oh I believe. I know first hand.

Was interviewing candidates for a position senior to me. One candidate with "20 years" refused to write code or even pseudo code for grabbing matching ints from two arrays.

Good candidates would be all like, "Normal intersection or bag intersection? Are there memory constraints or is pure speed the goal?"

This guy refuses to do it. It's below him or whatever. Also refused to participate in our stress test technical questions (really hard one we make you sweat out and drop better hints every 5 minutes.. fastest solution was 30 minutes and the test is how you do under stress).

Anyhow.. guy is a dud. His resume has some spottiness (I later get the truth on), poor hygiene.. lots of red flags.

Management insists we hire him due to "20 years". Yeah 20 years of fapping.

The guy breaks the code base. Commits shit that doesn't compile, deletes working code (accidentally) and commits. Doesn't understand merging, shows up late, leaves early.. The last straw was an easy project that was his. He had 2 weeks to do 2 days work. Didn't do it. Leaves for long weekend. Buddy catches it, we rush in (I cut vacation short), write the shit in half a day to meet the deadline.

This guy had pulled similar shit before. A friend that owns a company knew him, "Oh fuck, him?" Unfortunately he was out of town when I was verifying the resume. That means either he had pulled the wool over most employers' eyes or they were too afraid of lawsuits to say shit (defamation).

But.. he wasn't the exception. Exceptionally bad, but most people couldn't pass the simple "grab the like ints from these two arrays". A first year student should be able to do that. Fucking masters students couldn't. We passed on all those candidates though.. the "20 years" was too good fuck management to pass up though.