''punk is right wing''

''punk is right wing''

is he right?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crass
theanarchistlibrary.org/library/the-anarchist-faq-editorial-collective-an-anarchist-faq
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism
youtube.com/watch?v=rTDcZo8FsJA
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_Not_Bombs
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

Well he certainly wasn't left

interesting question. I think the answer is "punk is left wing, punks are right wing."

It's very political, but it is more to do with the individual. Johny Rotten couldn't say that he'd never vote conservative. I'm not sure if anarchy is outside of politics in the left right dialogue. To me we are in anarchy and punk's politics are a swerve looking for an angle to kick off of. Ramones always seemed more of a party band

Musicians who claim to be economic-right generally only do so because they're assblasted about royalties or because they heard about libertarianism at a party once and it sounded good. When they claim to be social-right, it's only because it aligns with their self-image of being aloof/elitist/rigid personality-wise.

Anarchism is a real and established political philosophy that has seen wars and revolutions fought for it. Punks may or may actually be anarchists, some only support it for the image, as you say, a "party band".

I've never understood anarchy, "no gods, no leaders" but what if you beleive in gods? It never makes sense. It sounds like law by gun.

BAHAHAHhhhHhHhhahaAHAHAHAHAH

Punk is just about going against the status quo

At this point punk bands should be right wing

...

>law by gun
There is no other kind of law.

it all depends on the group and the bands.

on one hand you have people like jello biafra who is the most liberal person in the world.
and on the other you have people like henry rollins that take a hardline stance against liberals

>implying it isn't

>supporting the status quo
>punk
wew

Interesting point. That's why I hate punk, it's full of glib plattitudes when it should be boozing and fagging and not being bothered

I'm gay and I'm not 'oppressed' or 'marginalized' in the least bit, and I live in the American south. Fuck off back to Tumblr with your victim complex.

>"i don't experience it so others never experience it as well!"
also yes an anonymous post on Sup Forums totally solidifies that, thank you sir

being called a sexist over the internet isn't oppression

This.

>being called a sexist over the internet isn't oppression
Potentially it could be

Ramones is the shittiest punk band of all time.

kill yourself whore

Screw me till I beg for more

Help, I'm being oppressed!

it's guess it's my fault if she/"he" actually does

I'm such an internalized-oppressor!

Agreed. Anarchism is attractive to people who are generally anti-authoritarian but just being a punk doesn't ipso facto make you an anarchist. See Crass for more "serious" anarcho-punk. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crass

Are you suggesting that right-wing is against the new status quo of the Trump presidency, the most right wing platform in US history? Even the US liberals in the form of the Democratic Party have been center-right for years. Bernie and Warren are the most left that we have seen in US government and they are barely center-left.

Jello Biafra is an asshole but he's not a liberal.

"Law by gun" would describe the nation-state with the addition that only the state has the "right" to use the gun, also known as a "monopoly on violence". On the other hand, a common thread of anarchist thought is that society should be organized with as little coercion as possible. Some ideas related to this include "free association" of individuals with each other, where you don't have to interact with anyone or give anyone else authority unless you consent to it.

For more reading on Anarchism as a serious political philosophy and not just some vague anti-establishment sentiment see the Anarchist FAQ: theanarchistlibrary.org/library/the-anarchist-faq-editorial-collective-an-anarchist-faq

>fuck off back to tumblr with your victim complex
>person he's replying to was criticizing people with victim complexes

> It sounds like law by gun.
There are right-wing anarchist views you could describe like that, but anarchism is much more complicated. Most left-wing anarchism is kind of similar to socialism and democracy, it's not just "no rules and total chaos"

>Anarchism as a serious political philo
No thanks it's in a post with the word Crass in it.

There's always a vegan

>Even the US liberals in the form of the Democratic Party have been center-right for years

Don't argue with these people. They seriously think that the Democratic party is left-wing. Their argument is that the left-right coordinates have now shifted in a way which makes Democratic party the new left

>New York Jews support right Wing Zionists

No fucking way!

with A baseball bat

this is honestly the lowest effort bait ive seen in a long time

I saw that bloke that didn't get his painting back. He was such a bastard about it.

>right wing anarchist

...

>it's not just "no rules and total chaos"
What else then? Dreadlocks for white people?

>right wing anarchist

Anarchism is literally meant to smash capitalism. AnCap Americans are illiterate and fat

>the "i'm a self-hating white collectivist who thinks everyone ive grouped is the same" post

>the "butthurt white guy" post

I approve of this and I don't even like The Flaming Lips that much
For example
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism

>who thinks everyone ive grouped is the same

sounds like people who whine about sjws

Anarchy just means statelessness.

What do you think capitalism means, and why do you think a state is needed to enforce it?

To prevent monopolies

yall a fucking joke. punk is inherently left wing. real punk is DIY, has a non profit ethos, and defies any central authorities even within itself. everything that makes punk punk is rooted in anticapitalist and anarchist thinking (e g the far left)
the ramones and crass are hardly a status quo for punk today, get involved in ur community and u would see this.
right wing "punks" are posers and have always been largely rejected by the culture as a whole

So nobody acknowledges my trips? I know a guy doing 80 years who has an anarchy tattoo on his heart and a swastika tattooed on his dick, and he's more punk than any of you.

The real answer is in the 80s punk gangs became very real. The ensuing racial split between Hispanic and white punk gangs pumped a lot of racism into the "punk scene". It never quite made it into the music though, and by the time pop-punk took over it was too late. "Punk" and all relevant sub-genres took a sharp turn left. These days ultra-left anarcho-liberalism is so much a part of Punk Music that it's like a backdrop, it's just THERE. So what we have today, we have swastika-tattooed skateboarders with meth and guns on one hand, and we have vegan acosustic saw-playering train-kids on the other, and they're both punk.

Monopolies only exist through one of two ways, either the business lobbies for preferential legislation that forces competitors out (which wouldn't exist in a stateless society), or the product is literally so perfect in quality and price that there's no excess money for a competitor to make (in which case what's the problem exactly?)

Crass isn't contemporary but I brought it up as an example of a band that embodied some of punk's stated ideals in that time period, in contrast to bands like the Sex Pistols that were a bit more self-centered and didn't do as much to construct new social relations. I still recognize bands like the Sex Pistols and the Ramones made significant cultural contributions which I value very much, but they don't go far enough into the political is all I'm trying to say.

The status quo has been left for a long time.

No.

>or the product is literally so perfect in quality and price that there's no excess money for a competitor to make

yeah mcdonalds is the best food chain in the world

B a k u n i n

those faggots have been running the world for decades
we need to end the faggots and trannies and feminists and eradicate them from this world. we cannot have a fair and proper society with them around.

R o t h b a r d

You do have a valid point. I think that these violent authoritarians are borrow stylistic elements of punk but do not live up to the punk ethos. Remember, skinheads were originally a ska subculture until their style got co-opted by neo-nazis.

Your reddit """philosopher""" is lowbrow

In what world is the status quo based in anti-militarism, anti-statism, anti-capitalism, and social equality? Stop eating the trash from the right-wing media, they don't even get basic facts straight.

Anarchy means "without hierachy" which includes the state, but also economic systems such as capitalism which are inherently hierarchical.

>Remember, skinheads were originally a ska subculture until their style got co-opted by neo-nazis.

This.

People need to remember that dumbasses ruin everything by going retard.

Skinheads were basically hippie dippy folk until a bunch of mongoloid racist trailer park fucks stole that shit and mutated it into something unrecognizable from its original incarnation.

>Leftists
>Not sucking off the state for any little scrap tossed at them

This isn't the 1800s.

You think that there's no preferential legislation keeping McDonalds in power?

And secondly, McDonalds is probably very close to an ideal in term of Quality vs. Price, for the market they're trying to reach. McDonalds doesn't hold a monopoly on all food, in the same way they don't hold a monopoly on shoes, or electronics. Those aren't their markets. Their market is quick, easy, and about as cheap as you can go while still being palatable, and who would argue that they've failed in a way that hurts the consumer?

Literally just type "anarchism" into google, "belief in the abolition of all government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion."

Wikipedia: "Anarchism is a political philosophy that advocates self-governed societies based on voluntary institutions. These are often described as stateless societies,"

Webster: "a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups"

>You think that there's no preferential legislation keeping McDonalds in power?
the "small government anti regulation" types in congress who give taxpayer money to these coporations, sure

that's corporate welfare though, when people promote socialism they're against something like that, since the taxpayer dollars should go to things that actually help people and advance us as people, such as health care, education, science and space funding, food safety regulation, etc

I was referring to "anarchy" not "anarchism", in response to a post that seemed to open the door for ayncrap ideology by trying to say anarchy is simply "statelessness"

Socialism is not to be confused with social democracy. The former is a position on how social relations of production is structured while the latter is a position on state policies (such as the ones you described).

Anarchy is the paradigm of having no state; no solitary ruler or group of rulers.

Anarchism is a leftist, communist ideology that supports the establishment of anarchy.

Anarcho-capitalism also supports anarchy, but can make no claim to "anarchism" as leftists can. Read Bakunin, Kroptkin, Malatesta, et cetera to learn more.

"the "small government anti regulation" types in congress who give taxpayer money to these coporations"
If this is true, then why aren't the obscenely rich funneling money into the libertarian party, since they want the smallest government (of any major party) and are more anti-regulation than the either of the two major parties?

Those regulations the republicans and the dems love so much are simply ways to raise the entry bar into a market. Secondly, " the taxpayer dollars should go to things that actually help people..", why should the government decide how best to spend people's money for them? Decentralization works so well in a market because people tends towards their best interests, and lack of regulation allows a greater diversity for people to choose from.

The whole reason monopolies are bad is because they reduce quality and increase price, by putting that power in the hands of the state, you get the same side effects, except now everyone suffers the cost.

Punk has a cult of penis & is very scared of women, which makes it reactionary no matter what it feels it is.

pardon?

...

somebody send her rectal hygienics

Yeah, I like playing music. I'm not sure where the sound comes from.

There was this woman, and nobody even knew how she had survived till they came for the property which on discovering it must have taken their minds to bits. I took my guitar to go and see her,

A commentary on how punks can not live up to the ethos:

Bomb The Music Industry - (Shut) Up The Punx!!!

youtube.com/watch?v=rTDcZo8FsJA

You're an idiot if you think that being right wing is counter-culture immediately after someone with Trump's record is elected president and Britain votes to leave the EU (a vote which showed that peoples right-wing views there were so strong they were happy to fuck the country in order to, supposedly, meet them). The Front National are in serious consideration for being the biggest party in France. Sure seems left wing to me mate.

Punk at its heart is the emotion of teenage boys.

>"FUCK THE GOVERNMENT, ANARCHY!"

>but we still want that free healthcare and huge taxes on the wealthy yanno?

For the bulk of the western world throughout most of its history, the status quo has been some form of right wing.

Only within the last twenty, thirty years has this changed in Europe, and only in some places at some points. The US has been largely right wing throughout its entire history.

The only real place right wing is against the status quo is Scandinavia.

Anarchists =/= Socialists

Both are far left, but one if statist, the other libertarian.

Anarchism by itself is neither left nor right wing.

The bulk of anarchist movements are grounded in leftist politics, however.

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of that, I've seen people saying that before

you're conflating social democrats with leftist as a whole. Social democracy is the welfare state.

Socialism is an economic system and isn't inherently statist, although Marxist-Leninists are.

I approve of this and I fucking LOVE the Flaming Lips

Yeah, the public are voting for weakness as they have a suprssed desire for it to all go down the pan and have a wine with someone they love

Let them steal it all so they can go hallelujah in the rain

Also it's politically consistent for anarchists to advocate for social welfare programs for pragmatic reasons while still ideologically opposing the state. One such (oversimplified) logic would be something like "if the state exists at the moment it might as well use its immense power and control over resources and labor to serve the people as much as possible, especially the most in need". An anarchist, however, is unlikely to stop at this point, and would go on to say that direct action for social welfare is paramount, which is basically to enact social welfare programs without the state's help. See: Food Not Bombs en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_Not_Bombs

Because you can get apples from the motorway sidings

Henry Rollins is a pretty liberal dude.

>leave EU
>right wing
Tell that to Peter Shore.

"National Anarchism". Primitivist shit like Peste Noire. Pretty out there desu lol

I'm very much on the left but I admit I was thrilled about The Donald's protectionsim and hardline stance against NAFTA and TPP. That is, until I found out my cozy civil service job is in jeopardy.

That's a male who went on tumblr, put lipstick on, and recast themselves as the oppressed lmao

Yeah, he goes a little against neoliberalism by not agreeing that we should H1B all our workers and such. He is still a Republican, so he'll do shit like cut important funding on principle.

>enemy of the state
>spends all his time being paid to be on government and political think tanks
American ""anarchism""

This. I have no idea why they are popular. They are truly terrible

>all leftist are socialist

goldman sachs literally does that though

You're posting in the wrong squat

That's a pretty tough sell, man. I grew up on 80's punk. If there is a right wing message in those albums I fucking missed it

Hitler was the original punk rocker. Punk is about telling PC to go fuck themselves. The alt right is the punkest thing ever. We live in a SJW world. being white straight and proud of it. Respecting cops and going to church every Sunday. That's punk. Hail Victory!

>howdoyoudofellowkids.jpg