I don't tip

>I don't tip

Was he right or wrong here?

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Right.
Tipping should be abolished from restaurants as having the customer subject to how much the establishments employees get paid, rather then the establishment just paying them a full amount themselves, is fucking retarded and unnecessary.

How many times do we need this thread?

...
So

Pay servers minimum wage
And they have no incentive to do a good job getting your food or serving you

So you get McDonalds care at any sitdown restaurant

>server makes little cash
>needs to do a good job to get a good tip

>instead does a shitty job
>gets no tips

vs

>does a great job
>gets big tips

Incentive based jobs are common, whether it's carsales or restaurants. People who do a good job and make the sale or make the food set up nice or whatever get bonuses. People who dont get jack shit

Well yeah, dumbfuck. He's not even wearing a hat.

Wrong, tipping is free market at work, good service = good tip if everything goes right.

Tipping rarely has anything to do with quality of service and you faggots know it. I mean this should be fucking obvious when its treated as something mandatory.

Wrong because the group split the check and were also splitting the tip. He wasn't stiffing the server, he was making other people pay his way.

This. If you don't tip in America waiters will chase you down the street

I don't tip, mainly because I generally don't have cash on me.

But I usually feel bad about it

Very true.

Especially for pizza delivery. I slung pizzas at Papa Johns for a while and getting stiffed doesn't even phase you. Eventually someone else drops you a fiver along the way. It all evens out.

No way, you have a lot of tip-hungry waiters who will suck your dick in hopes of a tip, and I'm happy to give them a couple bucks extra.
Abolishing tips will result in "that bad waiter you give 1 cent to" every time, since they have no incentive.

He was wrong. You know who else doesn't tip? Black people. Don't act like a negroidaloid.

>yfw the waiter fakes their niceness

He was wrong. Pretending that being cheap is a statement against the system that fucks over waitresses is dumb.

until you like it

You are extremely delusional about how easy being a waiter is. Here's what it consists of
>greet the people(basic life skill: check)
>write their order down(knowing how to fucking write: check)
>bring water and drinks(know how to pour drinks and move them to one place to another: check)
>get food and bring it to the table(moving things from one place to another: check)
>bring check over
>wipe down tables(moving a wet cloth over a surface: check)
These are all extremely easy things to do, that anyone can do. Some people with autism could it. Having a incentive for a simple basic job is pure absurdism. Knowing how to fucking write isn't something you can apply a judgement to. The only reason you would tip above some basic amount which everyone does(15% or 20%), is because you thought the waiter was "friendly", in which case you're paying someone to fucking socialize. Waiters should be paid a fair wage made by the establishment, not a made up amount by someone else for doing basic life skills.

Here's something for you faggots to argue about.
If you have s $250 drink tab, are you supposed to tip $50?
What about a $250 bottle of wine?

Who cares. I fake wanting to tip them.

youtube.com/watch?v=MrQwN8JorDk

If they do an exceptional job, I tip.

I don't tip for mediocre jobs.

Yes, he was right.

Tipping is literally customers being forced to subsidize employee's wages because their bosses won't pay them enough. It's a god damn scam to get the owners more profit.

I scale that shit down

for a $25er I'll leave $30 but if it's $250 I'm leaving maybe $275

>People taking a comedic bit this seriously

who started the "waiters can get less than minimum wage so they need tips" meme? It is illegal in any state to pay any full-time worker less than federal minimum wage. If waiters don't make that from tips the employer is required to cover the difference

>Allow restaurant owners to pay servers a small fraction of your nation's already laughable and unlivable minimum wage
>Expect customers to make up the difference through practically mandatory tipping
>Autistic right-wingers see this as a form of extortion
>Bitch endlessly and take it out on the overworked, underpaid servers rather than the people making sure this system stays in place

America is truly the third world

good bait.

if you can't or don't want to tip, don't eat out. you can eat at quick eats /self-serve that don't expect tips (think shawarma places) or ask for take out. then you don't have to tip anyone.

If you can afford to spend $250 on a bottle of wine, you can probably afford to round it up to $300 at least.

In most places in the world tipping is unheard of. Just Americans being retarded really

And how would you fix the problem then?

Try and defend this shit tipping retards. I'll wait.

>Stay indoors if you don't want to tip people

Go fuck yourself. I've worked as a server ina shitty bar for a long ass time and if people don't tip they don't tip, don't fucking cry over it you elitist scumbag. Why the fuck should someone not do what tehy want to just because they can't afford to throw you a fucking bone if you smiled while you poured them a pint.

depends

azns view it as an insult, it's like telling them they're poor losers who need charity

on the other hand in the Middle East and Africa they even call charity for beggars "tipping", they have no concept of a service-tip relationship. This is also why they don't understand why bribery is frowned upon, to them it's just another tip

>who started the "waiters can get less than minimum wage so they need tips" meme
waiter probably, so you feel sorry for them and tip

Raise the minimum wage to a livable wage first of all. Then require restaurant owners to start paying their employees minimum wage and do away with the tipping meme, like the rest of the civilized world.

how much is a livable wage?

Because it's an increase in the price of eating at a restaurant cloaked in a guilt trip. One way or another, customers are paying for the server's paycheck, but rather than just charge fair prices, they can pay the servers next to nothing and then blame the servers and customers when they don't tip enough.

$15/hour is a good start, though even then you'd be struggling in most American cities.

supposed to, in theory
rarely do, in practice

Right, why should the waitress get the tips anyway if anything it should be the cook getting the trip.

that's $2600 a month, who the hell spends that if they work at McDs? Unless they live in SF or Long Island

that's why law enforcement exists

Simply raising the minimum wage will cost jobs; that's basic economics. What we need is threefold and difficult to pull off: an increase in food prices so restaurants can afford to pay their servers more, eliminating the minimum wage exception for tipped employees, and most difficult, a simultaneous cultural shift away from mandatory tipping (so that it will be done as a reward or as thanks, not as a requirement).

>Rent
>Food
>Car payments
>Gas
>Utilities
>Internet
>Phone bill
>Health insurance
>Car insurance

Would you like to know how I know you still live with your parents?

Tipping should be abolished, it's already been established that people are more likely to tip based off of race or sex rather than incentive anyway

>Tipping should be abolished

Even if he's right in the sense that tipping is bullshit, he was just being a difficult prick because the breakfast was on Joe and all he was asking for was a fucking dollar to contribute to the tip. He was being a cheapskate.

>Simply raising the minimum wage will cost jobs; that's basic economics.

t. wall street shill

Shame there's no real evidence supporting that beyond fearmongering by companies that would have to start paying people more.

>le hat meme
You sure told him

I live by myself in Italy. My rent is $650 with utilities and Internet included, food is maybe 300-350, health insurance is $200 a year. Don't have a car because the buses are very convenient and it's $200 a year for that. I can't even imagine spending $2600 a month unless I purposefully move to a much bigger apartment

Knock ~25-30% off that for taxes (federal, state, Medicare...), knock 800-1000 off for rent, knock 200 off for utilities, knock 250 off for health insurance, you're down to $500-700 for a 30-day period, or about $23 a day. And you have to pay for food and gas. You gotta make car payments too. Now imagine you have to support a kid, too.

Tipping has been almost perfectly deconstructed by Adam Conover.

youtube.com/watch?v=q_vivC7c_1k

tl;dr: You should tip, but that doesn't mean that tipping as a whole is a good idea. It'd be great if every restaurant would just charge more for food so they could pay employees enough to make up for the tips.

all those numbers should make it mathematically impossible for someone to live on current minimum wage and yet many do

>kids
don't have kids if you work a shitty low paying job

They do by taking on debt.
>le just don't do it
Like isn't as easy as you want it to be, friend.

>Italy

Ok right away you need to understand public transportation isn't an option in most major US cities. We stubbornly refuse to spend any money on it, because the wealthy don't have to use it, so you're practically required to have a car unless you're lucky enough to find a job within walking distance, which is not as easy as it sounds.

Also, $650 in rent every month isn't realistic at all outside of certain places in the south and Midwest, and for people living on minimum wage, packing up and moving somewhere cheaper isn't really an option due to the cost.

>Like isn't as easy as you want it to be, friend.
well so far I haven't accidentally slipped and penetrated a chick

>taking on debt.
that nobody collects ever?

Its called condoms and birth control. Retard.
>i barely have enough money to support myself
>hey maybe I'll go ahead and try and support another human for 18 years
Double fucking retard.

>double posting retard

>all those numbers should make it mathematically impossible for someone to live on current minimum wage and yet many do

By slowly killing themselves working long hours at multiple jobs, often depending on credit cards, payday loans, and other black holes of debt just to live.

>don't have kids if you work a shitty low paying job

Oh shit it's that easy? Quick, you'd better let everyone know.

I made a spelling mistake, calm your autism

>so obsessed with perfect spelling you delete your posts
And I'm the autistic one

it's pretty easy to not fuck Fat Ronda rawdog and cum in her. The fact that many do is not due to the hardships of the American proletariat, it's very poor education and judgement

...

I said 18 retards instead of years, it didn't make any sense as a sentence.

>poor people only have accidental or unwanted pregnancies
What about people who get married and want to start a family? Are the just supposed to just not because they can't afford it?

Here's when it sucks to tip sometimes. For like a single drip coffee. I'f i'm paying good money for it anyway, another dollar for you to pour it or a dirty look?

Even if that were always the case, which it isn't, "poor education and judgement" shouldn't be excuses to force someone into a life of inescapable poverty and day to day struggling.

What about delivery where the driver is using their own car, gas, and insurance and are the fifth deadliest job in America?

>murican problems

KEEEK

What's your fucking problem? USA is practically the only country that has a strong tipping culture anyway

Fucking yuropoors

Works in Japan so I have to agree.

>Are the just supposed to just not because they can't afford it?
umm... yes

who's talking about forcing? Feel free to try and get a better job so you can afford more things, including a normal life for a potential kid.
>but it's not easy
no it isn't

If the rich are paying for these things anyways why should they pay for something they don't use?

Friendly reminder that trickle down economics have been implemented and have failed more times than actual Marxism.

You should always tip.

The problem is the establishment getting jelly they don't get in on the action and purposely fuck the waiter/waitress's pay to begin with.

The idea of legally getting away with paying someone well below the minimum just so they have to work as hard as possible to get a decent wage is unfair.

It shouldn't even be an issue but it is in our wonderful United States. Hence why Urops don't understand.

No it doesn't go right, and I must say if you really want payment based on service then what really matters is if I could pay based on how good the food is and if there wasn't all kinds of fuckups in the kitchen.

>Are the just supposed to just not because they can't afford it?
never has a sentence captured the average American's budgeting attitude so succinctly

>implying you don't fake niceness

>legally getting away with paying someone well below the minimum
this doesn't happen. The employee has to walk away with minimum wage at the end of the week/month regardless of where it comes from

>who's talking about forcing? Feel free to try and get a better job so you can afford more things, including a normal life for a potential kid.

And if you fail? "Lol tough shit, enjoy your grinding poverty, poorfag!" Because that's not good enough. Not in a country as prosperous as the US.

Especially considering the absolutely abysmal chances of upward mobility in this country anymore. The system has been rigged for decades to ensure that if you're born poor you'll die poor, but if you're born rich you'll die richer and so will your children. The odds of escaping poverty are astronomically low. The "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" meme doesn't work when you can't afford bootstraps.

>but it's not easy
>no it isn't

So...What? We should be striving to make it easier, not defending a broken system that punishes the poor.

Because your tax money is meant to benefit the population as a whole, you don't get to pick and choose where you want it to go.

Don't go to a restaurant if you don't believe in tipping.

I don't go out to eat because of tipping. Fuck tipping.

But what benefit is there in letting poors go wherever they want?

I worked in restaraunts for ten years. I've waited tables, washed dishes, bussed tables, and cooked. Everyone works harder than the waiters. When they're not out front pretending to give a shit, they're in the back texting and goofing off. And alot of the time they bring home way more money than all the other employees. Unless someone goes out of their way to make my dining experience good, I don't tip.

>They have to deal with assholes.

The cooks have to deal with the managers and waiters up their asses any time it gets busy. Fuck tipping.

>And if you fail?
some people will always fail no matter what. The state can't and shouldn't be a cradle for anyone unless they have some disability. The unfortunate fact is that shit jobs exist because someone will do them because that's all they can do

I like Carolla's theory that tipping exists because of a collective fear of a snot in your meal. Fast food places usually have a visible kitchen area so they don't hide your food from you so no tip

Waiters are assholes. The cooks and kitchen staff deserve tips. So does a good bratender

I don't think the incentive is a good justification. I think most people would do just about the same job regardless. I always tip because I figure there's no need to stiff the guy who's getting paid below minimum wage.

Exactly, I do love when someone makes sure my bra fits just right

>the guy who's getting paid below minimum wage.
they're not

>some people will always fail no matter what.

Yes, but "failure" shouldn't condemn you to a life of struggling paycheck to paycheck, barely scraping by while grinding yourself into an early grave working two, sometimes three, high-stress, low pay jobs just so you don't die on the street.

>The state can't and shouldn't be a cradle for anyone unless they have some disability.

The state's role is to promote the common good. Allowing anyone that doesn't "make it" to live in miserable poverty is the opposite of the common good.

>The unfortunate fact is that shit jobs exist because someone will do them because that's all they can do

This is true, but that doesn't mean those people shouldn't be paid an adequate living wage.

>The employee has to walk away with minimum wage at the end of the week/month regardless of where it comes from

Yes, with the "tipped minimum wage" which is absurdly low every state in conjunction with the standard of living in that state.

Many states have that being as low as 2 bucks and some change. It's pathetic.

no, you don't get it. If you receive $0.00 in tips you have to be paid $7/h no matter what. You only get paid less when you make it in tips. There is not a waiter in the US effectively receiving less than minimum wage

They are. Google tipped minimum wage laws. It varies by state but most states fuck their employees. I'm in such a state so I'll tip.

literally the 2nd sentence in the wiki article

>According to a common labor law provision referred to as a “tip credit”, the employee must earn at least the state’s minimum wage when tips and wages are combined or the employer is required to increase the wage to fulfill that threshold.[1][2][3] This ensures that all tipped employees earn at least the minimum wage

>Was he right or wrong here?
Classic example of: youtube.com/watch?v=uQl5aYhkF3E

>Ameritips

This shit is slowly gaining traction over here in Australia, we always seem to take the shit aspects of your culture and never the good ones

Oh so as a waiter you have a choice of getting paid the minimum and getting let go in your first month or agreeing to dogmeat out back but you have to compete your ass off with all the other people on the floor?

Sound's like a real fair deal. Hence why I wouldn't touch a floor back when I put in time in restaurants.

Its been a shit deal for years.