He was right

He was right.

Well duh.

>Maria
>Why'd you say that name?

You posted the wrong pic

Literally admitted he was wrong

First time he's ever had the high ground

He was right about what he said to Hawkeye.

Hawkeye was a real prick in this movie.

I agree. Putting the Avengers under UN oversight was the lightest possible authority (basically meaningless) and Cap still acted like a fucking sperg.

This movie was basically made for people who have no idea how the UN operates.

>I should be allowed to do whatever I want because I - an unelected individual - know best; the rest of the world should bend over and accept my decisions
More like Captain Fascism.

with agendas?

kek

I think marvel pretends the U.N. is more powerful than it actually is

>Don't sign the treaty
>They come after you if you do anything

>Sign the treaty
>They come after you only if you keep pissing them off long enough and hard enough
>You can essentially just do what you want and maybe you will have to answer to some panel if they don't like it
>They can't and won't ever imprison you

>muh agendas

Whose agenda? The whole point is that they can't get anything done because they can't step on the toes of any of the 5 Security Council members with veto powers.

Everyone has agendas, the UN is the one organization where no agenda actually dominates.

He's always right. Even when he's wrong. Go back and check ironman/Stark/Downey Jr. In every movie he is always right even when he's not. They won't let him be wrong

This. At worst they'd get a sternly worded letter.

>we don't like the few causalities while Avengers saved the whole world multiple times.

>we prefer nuking rather than have the Avengers do their job.

IF he was right why did he break his own law in the last portion of the movie.

The safest hands our are own. Also, cap's stance is libertarian.

The funny thing about movies is that in movies UN is always described as some badass organization with the ultimate power. Someone says "I'm from UN." and everyone goes "UN in here to save the day! We're saved!" 100% seriously.

If the US nuked some country the UN would 'denounce' the US and then do... absofuckinglutely nothing. They might even denounce the US a second time to really mean it. But when the UN really, really means it, they condemn actions.

Explain me those high ratings! Just watched the movie, not a bad one i must say.
But i found it a bit boring, i give it a 7 out of 10
I completely disagree with higher valutations

He's king of bros. You lib?

What has cap seen?

Let's let government do what they want
>German Fascism in WWII

Ok, well maybe the world can come together from this.
>Let's just nuke New York and kill 'em all

Well maybe just the American forces?
>Oh look it's just Hydra again

Ok fuck it, no one can even do this right and only we seem to be able to stop it.

The UN is corrupt. Their basically the Star Wars cantina scene, except each alien let's their own people rape and murder, all while pointing their finger at the US.

Yeah, remember in Ultron when the only defense for creating Vision was "I know it can work this time Steve, it's totally different than last time!"

This desu. The UN is a complete joke.

You just said it yourself--nothing will get done. Cap can't save anybody waiting on these 3rd world idiot degenerates to sign a go order.

>Also, cap's stance is libertarian.
No, because the Avengers themselves are enforcing their own personal ideas of justice, and Cap wants no limitations on that power.

By libertarianism, do you really mean what our founding fathers would do? Just say it. Have courage.

Imagine how much more could get done without those pesky checks and balances!

I mean that he supports individualism over the government making the choices for you.

Guess you would have sided with the office manager, not Mr Incredible.

No

Heroes are to be the personification of Good. Revealing the identity and working for others removes that and makes you nothing more than a bitch boy. Heroes would be humanized and families/loved ones targeted by villians.

Heroes should be thought of as Good and not as human.

And government officials are a better option? I mean even when they do send them in there will still be collateral damage.

its over anakin

Oh, I thought you said libertarianism. You meant conservatism.

of course tony was right

but would that have stopped the ultron stuff? ultron came from him dicking about.

they'd only have effective oversight on a few superheroes anyway, all that it would achieve is that they'd ring Thor or someone else and say 'look, these UN cunts are taking too long, sort this out would you?'

I know I could never change your mind, but two examples. One, the EPA, is really just a tool to fuck up US businesses, crippling them, while everywhere else in the world they play dirty. Two, Flint Michigan. Even after Roger and Me, that city, run by pro-government Dems for half a century, with all their checks and balances, still poisoned their own people.

No he wasnt. Almost everything that happened in this movie is Tony's fault; both because he created Ultron and alienated most of the Avengers

Not only that, but the whole "Superheroes are out of control and can be a danger" thing is still there

Even more now that more superheroes like Black Panther, Ant-Man and Spidey came to the light

he was blacked

But the Avengers are acting as a government, enforcing "justice" without unlimited authority.

Libertarianism is a nonsense philosophy because it assumes that the state is the only group capable of restricting your freedom.

So I just saw CW

What was the point of the "there's more Winter Soldiers" plot when Zemo just kills them?

Why did I see Sharon Carter on Late Show and she talked about how she was on Team Iron Man when she clearly was not?

Why was Peggy's funeral being held in London?

Why was Crossbones killed in the first ten minutes.

How can little human dicks even compete with Vision?

being chased by the whole free world is kind of a limitation

and they would've hardly be made more accountable for casualities working under the government than they already were

This. Captain doesnt want to do the bidding of a bunch of chinese and Africans

>Libertarianism is a nonsense philosophy because it assumes that the state is the only group capable of restricting your freedom.
non-aggression principle m8

The issue is balancing power between entities so that no one group can abuse their power. The Avengers having absolute authority over everyone else is not balance. It's overlords.

>117 countries sign Sokovia Accords

> Real UN has 193 member states, Marvel universe has God knows how many additional fictitious countries like Sokovia, Wakanda, Latveria, etc.

So who didn't sign? The usual suspects in these treaties, ie the Landmine ban w/China, Sudan, Saudi Arabia and such?

Which the Avengers violate. They're hopping into sovereign nations without that nation's permission and hunting down terrorists.

>How can little human dicks even compete with Vision?
I've been wondering this for ages. Only thing I can ever come up to justify that is that Vision is only getting to know his powers. He doesn't even know what the Infinity Gem he has in his head is; so he hasn't really unleashed his full potential, and he doesn't really want to know how far can he go
>What was the point of the "there's more Winter Soldiers" plot when Zemo just kills them?
Decoy?

You do remember that the UN secret council fucking launched a goddamn nuke at New York in the first movie, right?

To be fair if they acted as the government they would be doing what was for the best interest of the government, not the people.

>They're hopping into sovereign nations without that nation's permission and hunting down terrorists
So the Avengers are basically Team America

Vision is gonna have to die in Infinity War 1 anyways. Sucks that nigga has a death sentence. I would have liked a stand-alone Vision film.

>What was the point of the "there's more Winter Soldiers" plot when Zemo just kills them?
Bait.

>Why did I see Sharon Carter on Late Show and she talked about how she was on Team Iron Man when she clearly was not?
I dunno.

>Why was Peggy's funeral being held in London?
Because that's her home.

>Why was Crossbones killed in the first ten minutes?
Because he tried to take down Cap with him. His purpose was served.

>What was the point of the "there's more Winter Soldiers" plot when Zemo just kills them?
As a trap

>Why did I see Sharon Carter on Late Show and she talked about how she was on Team Iron Man when she clearly was not?
To fool you

>Why was Peggy's funeral being held in London?
wasnt she English ?

>Why was Crossbones killed in the first ten minutes.
Bad choice by Marvel

>How can little human dicks even compete with Vision?
he doesn't have one?

Venezuela, Russia, Iran, United Kingdom, Switzerland, China, United Arab Emirates, Netherlands, Iceland, Cuba, Colombia, Niger, Pakistan, Mauritius and Norway

Or MSF.

You're confusing serving an existing government with acting as a government themselves. They're doing the latter.

>No, because the Avengers themselves are enforcing their own personal ideas of justice, and Cap wants no limitations on that power.

Well who should limit that power? The U.S. Government, which literally stole one of caps suits, and helped Hammer get Ivanko out of jail to build them weapons? Other governments that spent all of IM2 trying to make their own weapons? Or How about SHIELD, which was completely infiltrated by HYDRA? Or maybe the secret UN security council that launched nuclear weapons?

There are literally no good people to put limits on the power in the MCU.

That wasn't the UN. That was the WSC.

So by that logic they either do the former or the latter then.

All of the world's governments working together, as was proposed in the movie.

>MSF
Medicin Sans Frontieres? No doctors in the Avengers matey

>As a trap

You have these supersoldiers at your command but instead of using them to kill the avengers, you just use them as bait.

LEGIT.

BRAVO RUSSOS

The Accords would have the Avengers listen to over 100 different governments working together, not any one government. The Avengers should have to cooperate with international law just like any other superpower.

Zemo was using them to manipulate Captain America into going rogue and luring him to the Siberian outpost.

No idea.

She's British, bro.

Because he has no point if he doesn't kill Cap. Might as well go out with a bang.

>movie comes out, no one mentions anything about UN
>RLM does review and mentions UN
>everyone starts arguing using their argument
good job you fucking parrots

Not that MSF.

>this is what idiots believe

next you're going to say we should abolish law enforcers because there are no people adequate for that job

Zemo hates superhumans, he doesn't want any more of them around.

Zemo doesn't like super people.

It's okay when it is the ubermensch.

fuck you, I made treads about this before the RLM review came out

Zemo knew that
>Cap and Stark would team up to defeat the Winter Soldiers and that would unite the avengers again
>The Avengers beat both Loki's and Ultron's Army, pretty sure they'd beat the winter soldiers as well
He even said that in the movie fäm

>You have these supersoldiers at your command
no one could control them tho...it's like you didn't even watch the movie.

SUUUUUUUUUUURE you did.

Then why doesn't he use the supersoldiers to kill the Avengers and then kill the supersoldiers after they served that purpose?

It makes no sense because if he just wants the Avengers to fight each other, at least some of them are going to survive, right?

None of it made any sense. Stop defending this shit.

They even had Tony explain that the UN is bullshit because they can easily pass legislation that would allow them more leeway

>The Avengers beat both Loki's and Ultron's Army, pretty sure they'd beat the winter soldiers as well

Iron Man had problems dealing with just one of them.

Zemo could have literally killed all of them systematically if he didn't use bond villain tactics.

Yes cause the UN has a history of stopping real world atrocities even when they had the power to do so. They would have been constrained by bureaucracy listening to over 100 countries which would have been a detriment in a world where millions of lives are at danger in an event that last only a few hours.

>Then why doesn't he use the supersoldiers to kill the Avengers and then kill the supersoldiers after they served that purpose?
He says exactly why in the movie. You can always rebuild from an external attack, but falling apart from the inside will destroy the team permanently.

It also means they could act on their own without consequences. All they had to do was sign the accords and get the red tape out of the way.

This is so simple but I guess a retarded child like you needs it spelled out.

Dude, I even made threads about the accords before the movie came out and said that anyone who's opposed to them are literally implying they want people who take the law into their own hands.

But yea, you're right. RLM are the only ones who thought of this. Fucking retard.

It's about whether or not you think it's better to err on the side of not doing enough, or to err on the side of giving them too much power.

Remember the Justice Lords?

>idiots who have no idea what they're talking about

not the user you're fighting with, but I bet captain was scared of another organization like hydra controlling the organization that would be controlling them. A legit argument.

>What was the point of the "there's more Winter Soldiers" plot when Zemo just kills them?

Bait for the heroes, but more importantly they were a red herring for the audience. We were supposed to focus on the blue packets of serum in the trunk and not think about the car crash itself.

No he wasn't. The Winter Soldier (the movie) was about how the in universe government was corrupt and couldn't be trusted with all their power. As a sequel to that its unjustifiable to try and let them manage more superhero shit. And what exactly would change if the Avengers were under government control? Literally nothing except the possibility for corruption, as Steve said they all have motives and as long as that's the case they cant be trusted to control the Avengers. They already try their hardest to prevent casualties, nothing would change. Steve was right but the movie is great for making each character have good motivations.

The extra Winter Soldiers were the driving force behind the airport fight, silly. Were you not paying any attention whatsoever? Zemo killed them because he hates Hydra as much as everyone else, knew the Avengers would simply defeat them, and in his own words getting them to kill each other was more effective.

Just because he says it in the movie doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

Option A: Kill them systematically.
Option B: Make a contrived plan that hinges on so many variables you might actually just kill yourself for even thinking this is a good idea, like for instance: Why does Iron Man, even after being confronted with the truth about the brainwashing (he's literally in the room with the people who got brainwashed), he still blames Bucky.
How did Zemo know that Iron Man would react like that? Why didn't Cap warn him about it? What if Cap did warn him about it would Zemo's plan still have worked?


It makes zero sense senpai. Stop it.

Zemo's plan was overly contrived and you know it.

Are we forgetting even Stark believed the Accords were stupid and was only playing ball because he felt challenging the U.N. would damage their reputation further? He had all intention of scurrying out of it after a few missions under the belt.

You could read the moral of TWS a pro-Accords, too.

Trusting SHIELD with all that power turned out to be a huge mistake. In-universe, who's to say the Avengers are any more trustworthy than SHIELD was? For all the public knows, they could all secretly be HYDRA.

>Why does Iron Man, even after being confronted with the truth about the brainwashing (he's literally in the room with the people who got brainwashed), he still blames Bucky.

Because he just saw a tape of Bucky murdering his parents!

Zemo is revenge-obsessed so he would expect anyone to react as he would, i.e. vengefully.

That's what any reasonable person would have done.
All Cap had to do was sign and do whatever the fuck he wanted anyway. Just like Tony.

Damn this movie is stupid.

>Why does Iron Man, even after being confronted with the truth about the brainwashing (he's literally in the room with the people who got brainwashed), he still blames Bucky.
Because people aren't rational. Tony's reaction was very natural.

Except you're only hindering them by having them regulated. They already had a history of fighting for the general welfare of the public even when the public turned against them(winter soldiers).

They are heroes who actually fight in the frontlines, particulary against insidious forces such as HYDRA.

So was SHIELD.

Cap would never compromise his morals because it's easier than fight for what he believes is right.