How were metallicas first 4 albums so good but the rest so bad?

how were metallicas first 4 albums so good but the rest so bad?

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Cliff Burton died.

Cliff and also Dave Mustaine for the first and some of the second album. Cliff for the third and some of the four with stuff that he wrote before he died.

James and Kirk managed alright for the black album but it all fell apart completely thereafter. Also the cover songs album was fun.

/thread

Slayer became more well known and it became apparent that Lars sucks ass.

1. and justice for all sucks
2. james started writing about his feelings instead of cool shit like cthulhu
3. james started to try and prove he could sing
4. lars told kirk to stop playing cool solos

I listened to the singles from the new album today, and they just felt so hollow. I even went back and listened to some of and justice for all and even the pop metal on there had substance. Then I went back to kill em all and got sad at how downhill they went, from a borderline 'extreme' metal band to decent thrash, and then to hollow groove shit. It's just sad man.

Also kill em all is the best Metallica record, you could argue ride the lightning and if understand why but it's just a fact.

black album has some great tracks

Bob Rock entered the mix, and Mustaine's contributions ran dry

it should've been lars

Yes it did. As far as I'm concerned it was the LAST GOOD album they put out. Other than Garage Inc which is just a covers album everything after The Black Album is shit.

Apparently people didn't like The Black Album when it came out. Good thing too cos I got good seats when they came to my town in 1991 to tour that album.They were still worth seeing in 1991.

I consider their first 5 albums to be good, they just got older, more complacent and eventually parodies of themselves

no one's perfect, at least they did a good 5 album streak

Load and Reload is two average albums that should have been one good album and delete the rest of the filler; some of those songs are great. 'The Black Album is bad' is a meme, only metal-children believe otherwise.

The music on St Anger is ok, but the production and lyrics are terrible, Death Magnetic and Hardwired are rehashing the same old shit because James is too scared to try anything new.

They should have broken up in the 90's, because they're so different as people that it doesn't work anymore. Metallica was a unit in the 80's, but they've lost that now, and it just sounds like they're phoning it in for each others sake.

sfloman.com/metallica.html

everything turns to shit given enough time

see : top gear

Megadeth were able to pull themselves out of a slump

Their consistency has been questionable lately, but Megadave's been able to do make it happen

Honestly Mustaine and Hetfield should just join forces and band together before Megadeth breaks up again

Mustaine's contributions are overstated and ran dry in 1983.

People didn't like the black album when it came out because the best thrash band in the world (at the time) got talked into hiring fucking Bon Jovi's producer and spending $1,000,000 to sit in a studio for a year and write pop songs. They went from Dyer's Eve to Nothing Else Matters in a 3 year period, and fans were understandably pissed

Mustaine's riffs were used until at least Master of Puppets

The majority of Kill 'Em All & Ride the Lightning have Mustaine's work in them also, explaining why the songs are that good and why they fell off the wagon so soon after the fact

Checked
/thread
That dude went to my highschool.

>le mustine is responsible for everything
a
hhh, a fresh new contrarian 4chanian meme

Only Call of Cuthulu was written my mustaine. Youre talking out of your ass.

this Lars revisionist history meme is funny

st anger is pretty underappreciated and lulu is a literal masterpiece (though i consider it more lou reed than metallica)

>megadave fanboys still believe this

Neither of those are Master of Puppets though.

>being unable to dispute the facts

I will tentatively agree because me and my friends were at peak Metallica phase when it came out. My friend's dad loves it, so we were listening to it the other week over there and it's not bad once you learn to embrace Lars' stupid snare. Also saw Stu from King Jizz wearing a St Anger shirt I'm assuming unironically early this year, so that also alters my perception of it as well.

>Mustaine's riffs were used until at least Master of Puppets

The songwriting credits seem to disagree with you

>The majority of Kill 'Em All & Ride the Lightning have Mustaine's work in them also, explaining why the songs are that good and why they fell off the wagon so soon after the fact

He has 4 writing credits on Kill 'Em All (not seeing how that's a majority), 2 on Lightning and zero after that.

I could see your point if he was credited on every single classic 80's Metallica song, but that's just not the case.

Burden of proof lies with the claimant

>implying Metallica is honest with ghostwriting credits

Mustaine allegedly contributed a single riff to Leper Messiah, that's it

If they weren't honest, why is he credited at all?

Dave wrote the entirety of three songs on Kill 'Em All, and every other solo on the album besides Hit the Lights

The majority of Ride the Lightning, excluding Escape & Fade to Black feature his riffs

Leper Messiah also borrows from the Dave vault

The band probably figured they could write him off songwriting credits if they just replaced his recordings with Kirk

Consider that Dave might have stole alot of the riffs from Metallica because he was a complete druggo and that's what they do?

The solos are basically the same on KEA tho, I'll give you that

>Dave wrote the entirety of three songs on Kill 'Em All, and every other solo on the album besides Hit the Lights
He also tended to write the least interesting songs there, but OK
>The majority of Ride the Lightning, excluding Escape & Fade to Black feature his riffs
Wrong, he only contributed a couple riffs to the title track and a chord progression to Ktulu, he has no other credits
>Leper Messiah also borrows from the Dave vault
A single riff in the bridge section
>The band probably figured they could write him off songwriting credits if they just replaced his recordings with Kirk
Except that clearly didn't happen since he was credited despite never performing on a Metallica album

>implying Dave "I Spread Disease Like A Dog" Mustaine could write his way out of a wet paper bag

nice story, tell it to reader's digest!!!

When they started they were making music in a relatively new genre, with honesty and all the new tools they learned while learning their instruments and listening to their favorite bands, they were young and hyped and had ideas.
There is a point where they used up all their original ideas, the genre they were in is kind of getting bland and falling out of style. They want to move on and do something different, but they don't have the skills i anything else, because they cut their teeth on classic heavy metal, NWOBHM and speed metal, there is nothing else they can do well or honestly, so it all sounds shit.
Because they were good once people think they were really talented geniuses, but really they were just good at one thing and the skills they had did not carry over into anything else, they were just doing the right thing at the right time.
So in their desire to change they showed how hacky they were, and in trying to return 20 years later their lifestyle had changed and their music tastes probably changed and skill level changed and they had nothing new to offer.

>implying Peace & Rust aren't the apex of thrash

Be fair now, Mustaine may be a tard and burned out early with all the heroin he was ingesting, but everything he wrote for Megadeth in 1984 (the near-entirety of the first two albums plus Set the World Afire) was gold. If he had left out the covers from the first two albums and took the best songs from each and made one album out of that, it could have been the best thrash album ever written

>implying Metallica is honest with ghostwriting credits

>attributing writing credits to Mustaine for song HE didn't even claim to be a part of

>Dave wrote the entirety of three songs on Kill 'Em All, and every other solo on the album besides Hit the Lights
lol who in the fuck is talking about solos
>The majority of Ride the Lightning, excluding Escape & Fade to Black feature his riffs
please provide evidence of some kind
>Leper Messiah also borrows from the Dave vault
evidence
>The band probably figured they could write him off songwriting credits if they just replaced his recordings with Kirk
and yet somehow they still gave him credits on songs where kirk is recorded instead of him, not sure how that logic shakes out

I am implying that, what of it?

>not knowing what a meme is

I wonder if there's an alternate universe where Mustaine stayed in Metallica. I'd like to hear those albums.

>If he had left out the covers from the first two albums and took the best songs from each and made one album out of that, it could have been the best thrash album ever written
Maybe, but he didn't

A universe with a Metallica consisting of Hetfield, Mustaine, an alive Burton and a competent drummer?

That'd be some good shit.

agree 100%. But Ulrich arranges 99% of the songs, so maybe keep him around to "produce"

metallica was never good

I actually thought about this.

The bus crash still happens, but Lars is thrown out the bus window instead of Cliff.

The bus doesn't crush him and kill him, instead just cutting off his legs or something.

Now you've got A Hetfield/Mustaine/Burton/Actually good drummer lineup with paraplegic Lars serving as their hypeman/collaborative songwriter

James and Lars were always Metallica's driving force, Cliff would leave the band later, but Metallica would end up the same. Green ruins everything, at least it ruins artists with no integritiy.

They should have just released the same album over and over like Slayer did

To make pointless boring albums that sound the same over and over? Nah.

Please tell me this is a bait

yes, but oddly enough those shitty same-ish albums didn't hurt their credibility as much as Metallica selling out and switching genres to hard/blues rock

Eh, both scenarios seem quite terrible.

yeah, nothing good lasts forever

But, there are always exceptions to that. Bolt Thrower being one of 'em. They stayed good untill the very end.

their new album wasn't bad. spit out the bone and halo on fire in particular were both really good. fight me faggots

It was dogshit, fuck off.

I really liked the Cthulhu song :3

Bolt Thrower knew when to stop, more bands need to learn that lesson.

True.

this is true, its not even a "its sad his dead because he was the best" meme, he was actually fucking good and was the level head of the band that told james and lars that their shit sucked and wasn't a yes man like kirk is

The Beatles knew when to stop too.

bump

>I consider their first 5 albums to be good, they just got older, more complacent and eventually parodies of themselves

Big deal, so did the Rolling Stones.

Either Cliff was the only real talent in the band all along or they ran out of creative ideas way early.

The badass Ride the Lightning riff at 1:56 is a Mustaine contribution. It's based on an old fingering exercise he would use.

youtu.be/YT516h7QwA4?t=116

Yes we know that. That's old news. That didn't stop it from being a good album.

Yes I was one of those fans that were disappointed that we weren't gonna get fast loud and thrashy and this wasn't gonna be And Justice for All part two or whatever but I admired the fact that they took a chance in going in a different direction and in my opinion they did it quite well. I was one of the few fans who actually LIKED The Black Album when it came out in spite of my disappointment that the only thrash on there was Anti Nowhere League's "So What". And one of the singles off of that album included Queen's Stone Cold Crazy which would've done Freddy Mercury Proud. (Can't remember which song was used as the single though.)

I know; it's called a spider chord. He was on Dave Navarro's radio show discussing the RTL main riff and how to play it.

See

They got too big too fast. Plus, they can't be young forever.

If Cliff had lived, the odds are that Load would have happened much earlier because he was a big blues/country rock enthusiast and always encouraged his bandmates to expand their horizons beyond just metal.

btw, anybody else think they should've scrapped the last verse and just ended the song around 5:20 or so?

Then again, RHCP are the same age as them and they stayed relevant decades after Metallica had passed their sell date.

It baffles me how the "Lulu is bad" meme is still a thing. There's some fantastic tracks on there and the whole mood and aesthetic of the album is really fucking unique. Best Metallica-related album since the fucking 90's.

why is it so inconceivable that artists' taste change as they get older? are you saying YOUR tastes are the exact same as they were 10 years ago?

couple that with reaching the stratosphere with the black album/bob rock and spending 3 straight years touring (during which james voice blew out), you can see why they went the more mainstream route.

Hetfield was always the country enthusiast. Burton was into more experimental weird shit. He probably would have ended up in some kind of alt metal band if he left Metallica in the 80s.

>It baffles me how the "Lulu is bad" meme is still a thing

I honestly can't tell if you are joking, Lulu was a shockingly bad album and totally unlistenable

Genuinely some of the worst "music" I have ever heard

They fell apart because they ran out of ideas, but just don't know how to do anything else musically.

That's just because John Frusciante is that rare talent that happens once in a generation. If they still had Hillel Slovak, I doubt they would have survived past the early 90s.

The problem is ultimately Lars because he's really just a businessman/marketer, not a musician. He was always more interested in the rock star lifestyle than playing music.

That, and I think competent bass playing has broader appeal than competent guitar playing.

Nice meme. The lyrics are sometimes wacky, but in context they fit. The riffs are a bit minimal, but catchy and maintain a groove, which you need since most of the album is spokenword-ish. There are some great hooks here and there too, how the fuck is it unlistenable? Your exagerating/parroting the media's reception of the album. It's not even that weird, it just is more of a poetry/metal crossover.

I can agree that Lulu is not as bad as people make it out to be, but St. Anger is fucking garbage.

I agree that people were too quick to judge the album and it's not as bad as everyone says, but the album is still mostly uninteresting and frustrating IMO.

Lulu is The Room of music

Dragon is the only decent track on Lulu.

HTSD was great.

HALLUCINAAAAAAAAAAAATION

RHCP were an underground alternative act in the Slovak era. They didn't get mainstream until the 90s--most people don't know about the early albums or associate that sound with them the way Metallica are associated with albums 1-4. Metallica got big with the first four albums and became "locked" into that sound whether they wanted to or not. What I'm saying is it was easy for RHCP to move away from their Slovak era sound and image because the vast majority of their fans came aboard with BSSM.

That and the two bands had the exact opposite thing happen to them--Metallica lost their best songwriter/arranger in the late 80s, RHCP gained their best songwriter arranger in the late 80s.

>decent track
>on Lulu

Good one m9

Also Metal/Metallica fans are literal retards who don't like change, whereas RHCP got famous from radio-play and mass appeal, so as long as the songs are catchy it still works.

Yeah...metal isn't really radio friendly so less chance for mass mainstream appeal.

>-Metallica lost their best songwriter/arranger in the late 80s

Cliff didn't write any lyrics or compose songs, he just played bass.

No but he was the ballsy guy in the room who stopped James/Lars from doing bullshit songwriting or business moves. Kirk is a weenie who just bends over and takes their dick.

It's radio friendly in places that have hard-rock or metal radio, but it's still very selective. Metallica didn't get much radio play in the 80's, from what I can gather, so when the Black Album came out and got them alot of radio-play all the OG fans got butthurt, and when Load/Reload came out all the faux-metalheads got butthurt it wasn't 'true metal' because short hair isn't metal.

Cliff wrote poems, but other then 'To Live is To Die' I don't think they were adapted for songs. He did write parts of songs, and he was big into composition, and alot of the complexity of AJFA was spurred on by his influence before he died.

>Metallica didn't get much radio play in the 80's, from what I can gather

One was their first mainstream radio hit.

Yeah, it was basically the end of the decade by then. Pretty sure it charted in 89 as well. Before that, they basically had word of mouth and having second billing to every other big band through the 80's.