There's no reason there should be a division on the issue

>There's no reason there should be a division on the issue.
>Iron Man's side just makes so much more sense in every conceivable way.

Well, he's right.

Your liberal is showing you fat ass.

>there's no division because my side is right

Jesus christ.

I closed the video off at this point.

The entire film sets itself out to make Iron Man be a complete prick and villain, whose arguments are purely coming from an emotional standpoint of his past experiences.

>muh dead black son
>why didnt you save every single person in sakovia instead of trying to prevent a meteorite sized mass of land crashing into the earth killing billions more
>MUH CASUALTIES OF WAR

Rich, you fat dumb fuck.

>RLM likes a new Marvel movie
>Sup Forums shits on them for it

>RLM dislikes a new Marvel movie
>Sup Forums shits in them for it

Why should anyone take you contrarian babies seriously?

fuck you Rich Evans, you're so wrong. Uh Oh, 16 people died because of our super actions. We should get the UN to approve every time we take a shit, so that the bad guys have all the time in the world to fuck shit

>whose arguments are purely coming from an emotional standpoint of his past experiences.
Cap was treated the exact same way. He was being influenced by the shit that happened to him in Winter Soldier. He was also more concerned with protecting Bucky than he was with doing what's best for the team.

That's the main reason why there was such a division.

If it were really just about the issue and not emotional standpoints of past experiences, then they could have just easily talked it out and came to a compromise.

>lets have super powered beings, easily capable of genociding us on a bad day, go around completely unchecked doing whatever they want.

It's literally no different than batman keeping tabs on superman all the time.

The reason Tony supports the Accords is because if the smartest person in the world, which is Tony according to himself, is not infallible then no one in the world is.
And super powered people making mistakes can lead to devastating results, which is why they should be regulated and supervised.

So who is going to regulate the bad guys? What incentive would they even have to be regulated?

Iron Mans side makes NO sense.

What if the UN had been incharge during the alien invasion of Avengers? How many more people would have died while The Avengers sat around waiting for the UN to pass the paper work so they can go stop it

This movie sounds terrible. Glad I gave up capeshit after Avengers 1.

>What are emergency procedures

Ultimately what's the difference between the UN and SHIELD?

>No, Goku! Stop, you can't fight Cell! We at the UN have sanctioned the great Mr. Satan to do it, instead!

Take a good look. These are the same people that complain about police overstepping boundaries.

Ending was memekino

>the last governing agency that the Avengers operated under was SHIELD and ended up imploding on itself due to corruption and Hydra infiltration, almost killing millions of innocents in the process
>"Hey Cap we need to join the UN RIGHT NOW there's no way THESE guys are corrupt"

Yeah how about fuck off

It's almost like they're shit.

They did a great job of making the Accords a difficult decision to make, and that's why this movie is such a huge fucking pain in the ass to discuss.

It's just like fucking bipartisan politics in the U.S. right now. 40% of americans believe one side is so obviously right that there should be no argument. 40% of americans believe the opposing side is so obviously right that there should be no argument. 20% of americans believe that the solution isn't nearly as obvious as the other 80% think it is.

In a debate like this, the only people who are just undeniably wrong are the people who think that either side is so obviously right that there's no reason for a division.

Why haven't The Avengers done anything about ISIS or North Korea?

all the destruction and mistakes are just as likely to happen because the un will,still deploy heroes to fight villains, only more slowly which means more destruction takes place before the hero can stop it

Because Nick Fury formed ISIS

It says a lot about the deepness of Civil War that people can argue endlessly about the moral code of the movie but Batman vs Superman is so shallow that it alisits no discussion like that. Which is kino again??

Given the current state of comic book writing, Captain America would probably just end up making a speech about how ISIS is just a bunch of misunderstood minorities that are fighting back against white oppression and need acceptance.

stop bashing DC, it's already dead

>a single organization that was literally co-founded by Hydra members
>117 nations
Infiltrating a 100 nations is a lot harder than an organization you've been in for 60 years.
No one in Civil War was right or wrong, and no one did "nothing wrong".

You are a retard. Due process is literally a bipartisan philosophy.

Not to mention checks and balances.

I like how they both argue that the debate about the accords didn't make sense because one side was too obviously correct...
Both argue for a different side.

I think that shows that the disagreement was founded.

It's literally impossible to bring the Avengers into any public command structure, they did SHIELD's work voluntarily and that only worked because Fury could give them direct orders.

Having a committee decide where they can and cannot go is pointless, how do stop Thor and Hulk from intervening? Send them an angry voicemail?

The Accords were pointless and infringed on the rights of the Avengers as individuals, if the Committee decided for example they should act on Israel's behalf against the Palestinians, and they decided not to do it? Would they then be criminals.

Whilst the Avengers acted with "null supervision" in the earlier films, nothing the did was criminal, trying to treat them as rogue vigilante's simply makes no sense.

It does make a lot more sense in the comics, as shitty as the civil war comics were, because basically the whole regulation thing is spurred on by super heroes acting retarded and getting a bunch of people killed when they try to take down a villain who is way out of their league for a reality tv show.

>Doesn't even know what his gem is but realizes it's incredibly powerful and not from Earth
>Agrees to basically let a bunch of bureaucrats direct him
>"We need to be controlled, our presence breeds calamity."
>Confrontation with Cap's team
>Cuts an airport in half and almost kills Steve and Bucky
>Shoots the wrong guy and almost kills Rhodey
>Literally looks down at Wanda and says "See? Calamity."

was he the dumbest person in this movie?

Maybe it's because the reasons they have to do so are shit.

Rich was the only one trying to argue that one side was too obvious.

Mike gave his argument for Cap's side, but never tried to act like either side was too obvious.

Jay pretty much avoided giving his argument for either side and just told Rich that he's wrong about there not being a need for a division.

He's just a 1 year old autistic faggot.

...

Jay thought there was enough of a reason for a division, Rich disagreed.

Nobody ever accused them of doing anything criminal.

They were accused of being overly destructive in their methods, which is accurate.

I know. That's what I just said.

>doesnt realize his own presence brings calamity as he is one of the most powerful beings on earth.
>the very gem in his head is going to bring calamity to his planet before he can even foresee it regardless of control and oversight.

Vision should be doing what Manhatten did, leave Earth. Realize what he has is a higher power than Earth can comprehend and control. He's better served to protecting Earth before anything happens to it as opposed to hanging around there.

So yeah, he's a young baby man sized purple dude. He's a bit dumb.

Is Rich a simpleton?

>doesn't understand that fastfood is bad for him
>Randian (although I don't think he has ever read one of her books)
>does nothing but play video games unless Mike is making him do simple tasks
>the streams show he has the worldview of an average 15 year old
>very rude and aggressive towards people who disagree with him, even when it is something extremely simple and factual that he's objectively wrong about, such as the location of an item in some game he's playing
>used to read children's comic books but doesn't really understand them

I like the guy, but he's pretty insufferable in the streams. However, I haven't watched the streams in a very, very long time so he might've changed/adapted.

He a big guy.

>tfw Jessi will NEVER EVER appear again because of retards and their Patreon conspiracy.

He has to stay on Earth so we can get the dramatic death scene when Thanos rips it from his head.

Makes sense in the movie though. Dont they leave out the whole part about their identities being recorded, and tony wanting peter to unmask himself for the world? That was the real decisive issue in the comic story line, not the vigilantism aspect.

what?

>>Randian (although I don't think he has ever read one of her books)
How is he Randian?

ah yes, the plot beckons it.

It's almost like Sup Forums isn't one giant hivemind!

It shouldn't be hard for you to understand that some anons will hate something while others love it. I mean you demonstrated that in your own fucking post, but apparently everyone but you is an unthinking sheep who shares the exact same opinion as every other person on Sup Forums

what am I looking at here?

>UN
>quick and decisive action
pick one

what?

They could have just signed the accords, still did whatever they wanted, and got an angry letter from the UN every now and then whenever there was collateral damage.

That's literally how these things work.

Cap didn't know this because he's been out of the geopolitical loop for too long.

UN oversight was nothing but a way to make the public feel better and it's retarded no one ever points this out.

Halfway into the movie Tony does point that out and Cap agrees to sign it.

Then Cap immediately changes his mind because he finds out that Wanda has been under house arrest ever since the incident in Lagos.

Really, the disagreement in this movie comes less from ideological differences and more from emotional fits of rage because somebody crossed somebody else's personal line.

The UN in that situation would've been the legal cover the team needed to get shit done. Basically doing damage control when people complain about losing friends and family when the Avengers start avenging.

They'd be like that police chief you see in every cop movie that complains about the hero being a loose cannon but doesn't actually do anything about it.

It was the perfect solution to the Avengers needing to seem like they're regulated without actually regulating them.

>organization that ostensibly exists to defend the public
>zero public accountability or oversight

explain this unlicensed vigilantism cucks

>people are robots that always follow what I see as the most logical path
>opinions can't divide based on multiple reasons inside a person's mind and personality
>characters can't be flawed

Fuckin' Rich Evans

Yeah it's really retarded because just talking it over would've solved just about everything. Yes Tony should've probably just let Wanda walk around on her own, maybe with Vision chaperoning but then Steve was stupid for pulling a 180 just over that.

I blame this stupid bitch and her feminist speeches from beyond the grave influencing Cap to do retarded shit.

>I want to suck NSA's cock

Go ahead then.

what's to say that the UN doesn't just label them as rouge and rallies military power from participating countries and taking them out because of political agenda or UN being hijack by hydra or whatever?

also you're forgetting what kind of precedent this is actually setting for the whole super hero community at large, if they can force the Avengers to be soldiers for a bunch of suits, what makes you think they can't do that to everybody else who has powers?

the movie doesn't do enough to portray what would eventually happen when a bunch of people with powers work for the government, the comics did a much better job illustrating that

>I'm just going to conveniently keep this from Steve so he doesn't wig out, no biggie right?

Fucktards.

2 years in iso cubes, muh 99% weed citizen.

Steve keeping the fact that Bucky murdered Tony's parents a secret was way, way worse imo.

Tell that to Saudi Arabia you retard.

>they did long storylines better in a couple years of comic books than one movie did
No fucking shit.
Civil War started the Phase 3 of the MCU and it's going to influence every single Phase 3 movie.

>one country/organization is comparable to LITERALLY a hundred
Sure thing buddy.

He didn't try to keep it from him. If he were trying to keep it from him, wouldn't he have just never told him? Instead, he did tell him.

It was pretty obvious that the reason he didn't tell Steve about Wanda's house arrest at first is because it wasn't relevant until Steve was about to sign the Accords and then Tony would explain what would happen as a result(i.e. Wanda's house arrest being lifted).

Steve, on the other hand, did keep the death of Tony's parents a secret for no reason other than because he wanted to protect Bucky.

I agreed with him on BVS because I thought it was a shitty movie and happened to have a bunch of the same issues but watching the other episodes he's appeared in he's actually kind of a dumb fuck.

>watching the other episodes he's appeared in he's actually kind of a dumb fuck.
You have no idea. Try watching one of their livestreams some time. Rich is beyond retarded.

Watch any given stream Rich is on and he shows his dumb fuckedness pretty quickly.

The worst part is he always thinks he's right and he's an angry old curmudgeon over it.

>what's to say that the UN doesn't just label them as rouge

Are they not already rogue? They're a supranational military organization with the firepower to level entire countries that operates openly with no oversight from anyone and without regard for international laws.

Really, the fact that the UN is being so lenient and is just pushing for an accord is kind of an extraordinary show of good faith.

Steve didn't know Bucky killed the Starks until he saw the tape.
He feared it was Bucky, but didnt know for certain.
What he did know was that Howard and Maria Stark dying wasn't an accident.

I was concerned, but surprisingly Mike explains how stupid it is later on. I have been concerned with Mike liking a lot of the big budget shitty movies that have come out in the last few years, but he just seems to be enjoying shlock more.

Saudi Arabia runs the UN these days.

It would be understandable if say there was aliens or giant monster robots attacking cities every day for the Avengers to be unchecked

But no, in the opening of the movie, they. are going up against terrorist mercenaries. They dont tell the local authorities about these terrorist plots, they invade foreign soil unlawfully and take the law into their own hands before flying off.

Thats fucked up and Cap is an asshole

What bullshit. Regulation would be a good idea maybe, if it wasn't for fucking Ross running the show. Tony was willing to hand power over to that prick. He knew it was bullshit from the start, but figured he could wok his way around the rules if needed.

The fact that Tony later dismisses the accords to help Cap directly shows they were a shitty idea from the start and he was wrong. He only began wailing on Bucky because he saw that footage.

This.
It makes literally no sense to allow the Avengers to operate with no regard to international borders, especially when 90% of its members are American citizens, and THREE are United States military officers/personnel.

The only one of them who's even come close to genociding anybody is Stark because he's a collosal fuckwit who can't stop building doomsday weapons

Precisely.

We had not even the slightest hint and what the UN rules would be. For all we know it could have just been limited to

> a massive liability slush fund
> general guidelines for action
> a UN representative overseeing operations.
> a UN agreement that the Avengers are agents of the UN and not a single nation.

The real question is: How do you put Captain America, or the Hulk into a cage? That little magic collar for Scarlet Witch came out of fucking nowhere, and only someone like Tony could have invented it.

And the Avengers are basically his organization, so...

And Thor, Hulk, Wanda and Vision could easily destroy entire countries WITHOUT creating doomsday weapons if they felt like it.
And Hulk feels like it almost every single day.

>le random shitpost

I think you're looking for reddit.

While we're on the subject, shouldn't the UN and all world governments be well aware of the attempted chatari invasion?

Stark should have been given full autonomy by the UN to build a giant Iron Legion.

It upsets me that he's losing his mind knowing what's coming, but stopped trying to prep Earth for it after the Ultron disaster.

Ultron was the mind gem acting through Tony's hardware, Tony didn't do anything wrong.

Now suddenly the only thing anyone cares about is Bucky and dead moms.

It was the lightest possible slap on the wrist the Avengers could receive, most likely because people realize they do more good than harm and the world needs them.

But you still have idiots saying any oversight whatsoever is "going too far."

Fucking retard.

Captain America would be pretty easy to imprison, to be honest.
And Tony and T'challa could make a cage from vibranium to hold the Hulk.

Wasn't The Vision supposed to be Ultron done right?

What happened to him being a protective Iron Legion network?

You have both SHIELD and Tony coming up with much needed defense networks to fend off an alien invasion and both are corrupted and never again considered.

Holy shit, it's like ID4 2 is the only movie actually taking this seriously.

ISIS is US backed, and N. Korea is irrelevant so...

>claim a member state without a permanent security council seat "runs" the UN
>call others retards

The Vision is basically Jarvis in Ultron's body.
AndI don't remember them ever saying he's supposed to be tied to the Iron Legion.
The megahelicarriers arent done because there's no longer an organization to do them, SHIELD is gone and despite Tony's wealth, the Avengers don't have the resources, nor the need, to make them.

No, I get that. What I'm saying is no one seems to be taking the threat of alien invasion seriously anymore.

Yes but in the context of the MCU, we've only seen them fight what are basically apocalyptic enemies. What were they supposed to do, not stop Ultron from destroying the entire planet?

The opening fight scene in Civil War is sort of smaller in scale and consequence, but even then it was supervillains stealing that poison gas or whatever it was.

He's not wrong in the slightest.

The problem was, in the comics, despite Iron Man's side being the obvious correct choice in any sensible real-world society, the writers ALSO went out of their way to make his whole side into "the bad guys" in the comic universe who used any means necessary and got a lot of innocents abused because of their zealotry, with Cap's side being the poor little persecuted dindu freedom fighters (despite an actual honest examination of their goals showing them to be hollow, selfish, and even more fanatical).

The movie is basically a case of attempting to have their cake and eat it too, and failing. They wanted to get that "hey look, we're metaphorically addressing a real-world issue" vibe but it doesn't work when you also insist on adhering to the comic book-world where people are nonsensically fine with identity-hidden, unregulated living weapons of mass destruction tearing apart their cities every day.

maybe because RLM is shit? that never came to your mind?

>it was supervillains
They were terrorists led by a Hydra agent in an exoskeleton.
Hardly counts as supervillains.
And Lagos is just many examples where the Avengers are wrecking shit internationally.
And they didn't even alert authorities and THEN go help them. Clearly they knew what Rumlow was doing there and when beforehand.

Clearly, people weren't fine with "unregulated living weapons of mass destruction tearing apart cities every day"
If they were fine, then the Sokovia Accords wouldn't exist.

Signing the accords and then just doing whatever they wanted would have made them criminals just like if they didn't sign at all.

Aye. This really upsets me.

One of the Infinity Gems is on Earth. Maybe two.

> The Mind Gem
Vision said "I don't know what this thing is." but Thor knows it has cosmic significance and everyone knows it came from Loki's staff.

Tony had already deduced that they're coming back.

Pepper left him because he can't stop obsessing over it. So I can only hope that Tony has been working on the next thing behind the scenes, and that's going to kick-off Infinity War.