Dawn of Justice

I mean, let's be real. There's only so many times you can see a garbage boy post about "lol symbolism" until you realize that really they have no substantive criticism against the film.

How many times must we prove the films symbology is directly tied to the narrative, character arcs and themes while wading through reductive criticisms that choose to ignore every single piece of evidence that proves said negative criticisms wrong.

It used to be art was celebrated while commercialism was derided, but here we are, it now seems how much money your film makes is the real deciding factor in what is good or bad. This has to change.

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>Snyder intends to resolve the conflict between commerce and art, power and morality.

keep it in one thread

We're beginning to uncuck the board. The world comes later OP. Join the cause.

I agree with the sentiment. OP. I'm very happy with the direction that DC and WB are taking and am really looking forward to the director's cut of BvS. I'm confident that what criticisms I do have of the film(bad editing and omitted scenes) will be made right.

I'm not looking to convince anyone else, but I hope as time goes on, more and more people will realize just how great this movie is, and how brave.

you're not fooling anyone. is an ACTION flick, and, by all accounts, a very bad one

Containing action doesn't automatically make something an action movie. This was closer to sci-fi/drama than a cape movie.

Do you even know what that word means?

Not him, but I do - both its real definition as well as the weird catch-all it's evolved into around these parts.

Also checked.

I really liked the scene where batman aka "man" is hitting the gym, getting ready for the fight against superman aka "god"

that fucking scene might aswell have been written and directed by Nietzsche the man himself

>That alone makes Jonah Hex the best movie to open this week—easily overshadowing Toy Story 3.
>Jonah Hex easily overshadowing Toy Story 3.
>Jonah Hex.

The intercut of the spear and grenades being created was well done - all weapons being honed/perfected.

>True art is watching hot-chick Megan Fox (as Lilah the hooker) fearlessly staring at the most grotesque side of Jonah’s face as if coming to grips with her own exploitation. Beautiful and brilliant.

I feel like that scene was a lot more of a direct reflection of Batman's use of.the kryptonite. He's preparing his body and molding it, same way he prepares the kryptonite and molds it into a weapon. Both to for the fight against God. Well done scene.

looool that's the same scene some women reviewers got triggered over holy shit
hahaha guess what they saw in that scene

Just guessing, but was it the phallic symbolism of the spear?

Sometimes a cigar's just a cigar.

the way people are talking about it here and the way some women talked about it put it in "scenes women will never understand" territory
some i saw were to masculine, masculine power fantasy, too fascistic etc etc they took offense to just the sight of the male body

I could see the influence of Excalibur in Batman's armor.

It's pathetic that you've actually begun to take your overanalyzing of capeshit seriously and have gotten to this sad state through confirmation bias.
My suggestion is that you either watch more films or seek professional help.

That's just sad. We've reached a point in society where people are so ready to be offended that they can no longer tell the difference between a power fantasy and something inspirational.

What I like about it is that Bruce only *thinks* he's the hero. It's how he justifies everything he's doing. He's Ahab in Arthur's armor, wielding Ahab's spear while thinking it's Excalibur.

Is it really surprising Sup Forums has started to take a meme seriosuly? Just look at how many people think theres actually a difference between flick/movie/film

Idk if it's been mentioned, but when Lex is speaking about the Kryptonite he calls it a "whale among the fishes". Really enjoy these themes and how subtlely they're mentioned every so often

You just havnt been enlightened pleb

You have to hand it to whoever started it though. They went all out, and people actually bought it

Something that I picked up on today is how at every occasion, Diana makes sure that Bruce is seeing her. I wonder if we're going to get more on what that means in the next movie.

It's almost like there's some importance to her that it's Bruce who puts all the pieces together and forms the League.

>mfw i basically started the capekino meme

reminder this guy called it

Can anyone help me define what this type of dialogue is? When Bruce is confronting Diana at the museum, he says "I can see through that babe in the woods act", which is ironic because that's a reference to Bruce himself. He was a babe in the woods as a child, but turned his innocence into a facade as he adopted the Batman persona. What is that called? That type of double entendre dialogue. It's a very clever way to explore characters.

none of these are issues unless you're a faggot desu

My main criticism lies with the director's cuts Snyder is consistently pushed into doing. It irks me that he has to regain ground among fans and critics by, what? Teasing a film just shy of what it should be?

I'm not sure there *is* a term for that. I mean, it's a type of projection in a way - he's unconscious of the fact that what he's saying applies to himself, so that's where the irony comes in.

They really did a good job showing how messed up Bruce is psychologically. That Man-Bat dream drove that point home quite well.

Not going to lie - that bothers me too. I'm hoping that working with Affleck teaches him how to work on a smaller canvas. I have no long with epic-length films, but as long as he keeps working in that arena, studios are going to keep butchering his intended vision.

>no problem with epic-length films

blame studios and ADD

Point being, most celebrated directors don't promise an extended cut a week after release. Not saying this is all on Synder, but working in the medium of comic films will have its limitations. Not because the subject matter can't handle the themes he wants to explore, but because WB probably won't let him. That's what disappointed so many was that he had to make decidedly mature takes on batman and superman into a film that's PG-13 and that anyone can walk into without having read Frank Miller, Zach Snyder, etc.

this is what kinda gets me too, I liked the theatrical release even though it obviously had some issues, and I expect to really enjoy the DC, but
>did Snyder actually believe WB would allow him to put out a 3 hour cut of a batman and superman film in theaters?
>shouldn't he have known they wouldn't?

>Snyder is consistently pushed into doing
he only agreed to the last minute cuts when WB allowed the directors cut because that was the original theatrical version. All of his movies that have cuts he didn't like have had far better director's cuts
his problem as a director is that he can't whittle down a movie to a normal length and so he's forced to because he isn't critically liked. the irony being most of his director's cuts receive better critically than the theatrical cousins

It can't entirely be placed on the studios. Snyder does shoulder some of the blame. Did I need an extended cut of Christopher Nolan's Batman films to be satisfied with the story archs and themes? No.

Why would that be his fault? He actually got a HUGE IP crossover movie and instead of going by the motions he made the best product he could and filled it with everything he had, I have nothing against him for trying that even if the final product was noticeably butchered by executives.

>criticism I disagree with doesn't count as substantive

>when zod kills jor'el
>he stabs up
>when doomsday(zod) kills clark
>he stabs down

>luther:pilate
>bruce:paul
>doomsday:longinus
>audience:judas

You do if the studios cut out necessary parts of your film

Like, lotr/hobbit movies, avatar, dark knight rises, so many movies push well past 2.5 hours and close to 3, they need to let Snyder have that full time
Fuck all the little ADD shits that ruin that with their whining

One thing that I do like is that thanks to MoS, we now know he can create a great movie that stands on its own. Watchmen was an ambitious project to even attempt bringing to the screen and so its full run-time is understandable to me.

More than anything else, I think BvS suffered from too much story all crammed into one movie. In all honesty, I think I'd have been fine with a true cliffhanger, with Clark and Bruce's fight ending as shown and Doomsday ending on Doomsday being released.

Exactly. He can't quite reach that sweet spot. May oh something to the anthology nature of his source material. A proof of this would be with what he did with an original screenplay in Sucker Punch. Pretty standard run time and only added 20 min on his director's cut.

BvS is a visual masterpiece just like Man Of Steel

i can honestly watch these movies on mute and enjoy it.

Oh and MoS would be the better example than Sucker Punch. Sorry yall

Is this the new thing on Sup Forums now? You ask for valid criticism, receive mountains of it, ignore it all, and then proceed to continue asking over and over again until you wear everyone else out?

Then, when you post your inevitable thread for the millionth time and no one responds out of disdain and boredom for your antics, you can get the satisfaction of saying "A-ha! I knew you didn't have any valid criticisms!"

The burden of proof is on you, to explain what is so great about a movie you make threads endlessly praising. So far all I've seen is simpletons lauding the most generic, simplistic, face value themes and symbolism about Gods and Jesus imagery as being some bold, brilliant innovation, when really it could be found in a wide variety of crappy student films.

You aren't alone.

Which that would come from WB trying to get their universe up and running in essentially two films BvS and Suicide Squad. Consider that Marvel had a nice slow burn of stand alone films that weren't crammed with multiple protags.

I like the fact that he obviously put a lot of work into it, but my main problem just lies with his faith in the studios; he probably knew that they would never put out a 3-hour cut of it theatrically, so instead of getting a really great 2 1/2 film and a great dc, we get a good 2 1/2 hour film and a great dc. it's annoying that I have to wait for the dc to fully realize the content of the film.
even the LOTR trilogies DC don't substantially add to character growth and content.

I'm more frustrated and WB and Snyder's faith in them, I guess

>receive mountains of it
sure.

>>wide variety of crappy student films
Who do you think is manning these threads?

It's a movie about children's characters fighting each other, directed by an idiot. Whatever symbolism is there is completely accidental.

>mfw inclined to watch Man of Steel and BvS in black and white
am i that up my ass?

You could clearly see that Wonder Woman sword was able to cut Doomsday

Why didn't they just use that to kill it?

The colors are so muted you might as well be doing it

yes

So many classic films push that long too: Ben Hur, Lawrence of Arabia. Do what they did back then and throw in a fucking intermission.

>completely accidental
>Zack "autist" Snyder
ok cuckie...whatever you say.

not really, i think the visuals would be really appealing like that actually.

>releasing films for an audience 95% white is the same as releasing action films for a global audience

(you)

>The burden of proof is on you, to explain what is so great about a movie you make threads endlessly praising. So far all I've seen is simpletons lauding the most generic, simplistic, face value themes and symbolism about Gods and Jesus imagery as being some bold, brilliant innovation, when really it could be found in a wide variety of crappy student films.

I'd say that's all in how you choose to interpret its purpose. In Superman Returns, we got an almost identical shot of Superman high above the earth in a Christ-like pose, listening as people are basically "praying" to him.

There, the message it conveys is that he's a stand-in for God. In Snyder's films, there's quite a few people who interpret it quite differently. From their perspective(and it's one I happen to share), it's there to convey mankind's unconscious deification of a man who's not trying to be anything but a hero.

In other words, it's the answer to Perry White's question to Lois in MoS: "Do you know how people would react if they knew there was someone like this out there?" Well, here's our answer - a lot of people try to turn him into a god.

I think I'll try it out once i get both of them on my hdd. Open mind uhuhuhu

JL1 RT and box office predictions?

92% RT and 1.7 billion box office

critics are getting tired of the same old marvel non risky formula

That's a great pic.

>1 billion
>65% on rt

>Visually stunning but poorly written and edited.

There you go OP, that's your seven word review that is accurate and to the point. I wanted it to be good, I did...but it sucked. Sometimes you have to just accept reality

snyder is dumbing it down so it'll probably be really appealing to cucks

So no sophomoric symbolism?
I'm down with that.

900m and 50 on RT

>1 billion
>1.7 billion

"Justice League" has less name recognition than "Batman v. Superman". BvS was their big show, if that couldn't cross $1 billion, nothing will.

It will most likely make a lot of money but I don't see it being much better than BvS, they're just trying to rush towards JL to catch up to Marvel instead of taking there time and building it up. The worst thing about it is if they had actually tried it would have been way better than Marvel.

I want to see him leave capeshit and do some avant-garde stuff. He mentioned an interest in directing the fountainhead, I think he could do it justice with a budget under 15 million

Oh wow. I clearly entered the high brow section of Sup Forums. Oh no, wait...there isn't any.

why do you get so triggered about this?

capekino really fucked your shit up lmao

Who's triggered? I simply replied to your post in a calm manner, and to call Snyder's symbolism sophomoric is not a stretch.
Again, who's triggered?

I want it to make billions and be critically lauded just so Sup Forums can go full contrarian again and start calling Snyder a worthless piece of shit

Different guy here, but what do you think it's there to convey thematically speaking?

youtube.com/watch?v=DBtd05U-irA
>inb4 every reply is either some form of ad hominem towards the people in the video

>jumps at the chance to complain about symbolism he views as beneath him
>not triggered

Just because we hate the movie doesnt mean we hates supes or batman.

WB is counting on your rekigious devotion to keep this franchise from sinking.

WB basically pulled a Passion of the Christ. They made a shitty movie and then hide behind the fans who are afraid to betray their favorite idols.

DC fans, you deserve better than this.

nah, i and some others started the deep dive but most of that first wave had no part in the memes

how pathetic is this guy


why havent you killed yourself yet?

He equates superheroes to classic myths making several visual allussions (and some mentions, not as many as people are saying and all the themes are definitely not stated out loud) to universal lit (moby dick), rennaissance paintings, greek, catholic and arthurian myths.
My reasons for calling it sophomoric is that this is Snyder's end, to make these parallels, since they hardly relate to the intricacies of the structure and work at a surface value.
If you want to see a director using the same visual resources as a means to another end, watch Peter Greenaway, whose use of symbolism and visual allussions to rennaissance paintings still attains the emotional impact of both the referenced piece and the events portrayed within the movie.
That said I don't hate Snyder for trying things differently, I respect his decision of making a BvS movie quite his own thing having everything laid out for him but as a final product I think it failed.

irony, which the movie is full of at different levels

It was directed like shit get real
snyder ham fisted the simbolysim because the story didn't made sense so they tried to woo us into believing it was grandiose and deep when it was just horribly written and in your face

M-m-muh capekino

nice reply loser

>replies in 2 seconds
Triggered as fuck.

>simbolysim

>He can't quite reach that sweet spot
i'm into both movies but this is the biggest point of contention for me, one of the sweet spots for me personally is the cuts x coverage x blocking
it slightly irks me to the point that i want to talk to him about why he shot things a certain way while also saying how i would have shot it and ask him if i'm wrong

how long should i wait?

Less

/thread
Really guys, get over it.

>/threading your own post
nice meme

avatar was a global success and was like 3 hours

That's entirely fair.

I think that the allusions to Melville and Arthurian legend spoke nicely to the dichotomy of the two principals, speaking to Bruce's beautiful lie(that he was ever anything other than obsessed) and unify nicely in Clark's wielding the spear as a symbolic affirmation to choosing the hero's role(like Arthur) and sacrifice himself, if necessary, stopping the personification of the consequences of his own past "sins," as embodied by Doomsday, stabbing away at it even as he dies(like both Ahab and Arthur at once).

All that said, I appreciate the fact that your opinion differs from mine.

Here's your first response. These guys didn't even pick up on why Lex wants Superman dead. I got it on my first viewing, and it has absolutely nothing to do with gods, tyrants, or anything other than envy.

That's 11 minutes in, and that's as far as I'm going.