How did the Russians lose the First Chechen War?

How did the Russians lose the First Chechen War?

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Because we are the strongest nation on earth

Wtf there is a manga about chechens?

Yeltsin was a retard, that's why.

We had some incredibly retarded military planning back then. Although we actually captured Grozniy.

Terrible command structure, empty ERA bricks, tanks had little to no infantry support, sending in half-strength units as though they were full strength...

Retarded commanders, corrupt rulers behind them, pro-chechen bias of social media, foreign funding.

google MVD that was russian military 95% fighting in first chechen war they were literally policemen given rifles without proper training and low morale.

chechens still did good to stay united.

What social media?

Excuse me, I meant the usual mass media, like TV and papers.

So where was the Russian military then?

They are part ubermench

Weasel words. Especially you Georgian, don't forget 2008

I'm just being honest. The only sane general was Lev Rohlin. The only pro-federal major journalist was Nevzorov.

that was part of russian military
i am sorry we didn't want that war to turn into 2 year urban warfare and later get ruled by russia with "autonomy" we had enough manpower losses and genocides in south ossetia and abkhazia done by if i recal correctly "chechen mujahedeens" so much for caucasian brotherhood eh ?

Typical fucking russia. You couldnt beat us, you couldnt even beat chechens. "russia threat" is a joke

I spy, with my little eye, something that begins with C

Oh right that makes more sense

>chechen mujahedeens
They were probably 200 - 300 of Kadyrovs men fighting, not Ichkeria or IK. (But they were enough to win kek)

Do you think Chechens had generals like Patton, Eisenhower or Rommel? All these excuses sound like ChIASSR was actually ruling over the former major power

What?

> "chechen mujahedeens"
Don't forget that those "Chechen and North Caucasian mujahedeens" and the whole "Confederation of Mountain Peoples of the Caucasus" was a russian project made to make that war look like Abkhazian rebellion, to hide the russian invasion.
Russians always used Caucasian native soldiers to fight against other Caucasian nations. Like in the Tsar times native Georgians fought against Chechenia and Dagestan.
Don't be a fool, dear Georgian brother, don't fall for the same imperial trick again. We all know that kadyrov scum is a traitor and that Bassajev served in russian Main Intelligence Directorate.

>Do you think Chechens had generals like Patton, Eisenhower or Rommel?
No. But if you have a crowd of undertaught conscripts led by drunkards and complete retards like Pavel-Mercedes, then you shouldn't expect much.
And remember that there were many arabs, palestinians and afghans fighting for Ichkeria.

How's your fight going, Movladi Udugoffson?

>kadyrovs
kadyrov changed allegiance after you became full allahu akbar's and crossed into dagestani border expected them to cry allahu akbar with you. after dudaev was killed u started to loose hard both politically and militarily.
it was basaev's brigade along with other north caucasians, russians, armenians lmao you hate them still you fought with them against us my brother and later you got annexed by the ones you shared food with.
>only 200-300
it's not like it was chechen military that beat us lmao you guys just killed innocent civilians in the name of allah. russian military and this time there was no MVD shitty policemen it was VDV
and navy.

The Anime posting Chechen is back

So the major power that was in the duel with the other only super power (US) for the world power for half a century just turned into a mess, all equipment and training became dust?

>remember that there were many arabs, palestinians and afghans
There were maybe 100 foreigners in Chechnya.

You can find a bazillion excuses, but fact is, they defeated Russia in the first war all on their own (barring logistical support from CIA/etc.).

In comparison: Albanians, our Balkan Muslims, are utter cowards and subhumans who couldn't win a war on their own in a million (maybe even trillion) years.

All in all, it's good that Chechnya is back in the Russian fold. They are Sunni Muslims and good at fighting, which means they will be useful in the upcoming wars against (((globalists))) that could likely take place in Jordan, Oman, or Saudi Arabia.

kek, never seen a Chechen faggot before

>and crossed into dagestani border
Most of them were Dagestani, and Basayev didn't act in the name of Ichkeria.
>it's not like it was chechen military that beat us
Zapad and Vostok actually played a big part of the fast victory.

>Mountain Nigger
kys

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_Dudayev
>Major General
>Battles/wars Soviet war in Afghanistan

what he said is true tho
oaky seems legit dagestanis went into dagestan from chechnya under arab general you lost that war as soon as you invited religious idiots and became islamic it was not much of republic after death of dudaev.

he was air force general -_- in a land war chechnya had literally no planes, don't mean to disrespect him ofc. it was chechen people's unity that won that war and your low morale, police soldiers and inner tensions that costed you it

>There were maybe 100 foreigners in Chechnya.
Chicken's not a bird, Ukraine's not a foreign country?
>So the major power that was in the duel with the other only super power (US) for the world power for half a century just turned into a mess
At least in this very region. It was turning into mess since the 80s.
>all equipment
Yes. If you have to fight chechens in valenki and with old radios while some street bums have warm boots and small Kenwoods, then there's something wrong, isn't it?
>training
Obviously, the soldiers weren't well-trained, at least in the very early stages of the war.

You had hundreds of generals experience of Dudayev.

No. Dagestanis armed themselves and tried to seperate Dagestan under the command of Khattab and Basayev.

I think Chechens are pretty cool guys eh, kills russians and doesn't afraid of anything

>in a land war chechnya had literally no planes
Because "unidentified" air force made one strike that has destroyed 3'5 working planes.

And this guy.

wow, a nationalistic weeboo chechen immigrant in sweden, the shit you see nowadays lel
lemme tell you the truth,
they (and not only) were trained in georgia (pankisi) by CIA to try and rebel all north caucasians against russia cutting all their oil supplies later they would make it a war torn zone like afghanistan while exploting resources of north caucasus oil included, your president dudaev knew it all and was actually against it basayev was not russia's agent if he was agent at all and wasn't religious idiot it is fair to assuem he was cia's agent just like most islamists during taht conflict, but oh well your islamist rulers faield north caucasus provines didn't rebel and russia suceeded, if russia did fail there would be no peace in caucasus not after dudaev was killed.

>Chicken's not a bird, Ukraine's not a foreign country?
Eh?
>At least in this very region
Makes no sense
>If you have to fight chechens in valenki and with old radios
Are you implying Chechens had better equipment? It was worse. Look at the pic, this is how the average Chechen looked like.
>soldiers weren't well-trained
They had at least the same training the Chechens had.

Do you really believe this bullshit? Basayev was a hero.

Pasha-Mercedes. The only reason he got his post is because of his actions during 1993 riots

don't you see that ? you were pawn's of usa and now you are pawn's of russia we both were/are
do you really think that americans are your friends ? if i ask chechens from chechnya nowadays they will say that russia is their friend whether basayev was a hero or cia's agent he actually served usa's intentions. in this world you have no friends especially no superpower.

Russia and USA are both marionettes.
>if i ask chechens from chechnya nowadays they will say that russia is their friend
Because they are forced to think like this.
>in this world you have no friends especially no superpower
Thats why Chechens refused to approach the US while fighting against Russia.

>Eh?
Old saying. In original it goes "Chicken is not a bird, woman is not a man".
>Are you implying Chechens had better equipment?
Yes, they had warm clothes, they had lighter radios, they had better knowledge of the region. Damn, they even had tactical vests, while feds got theirs only few years later.
While federal troops had to use partially old 60s equipment.

>Thats why Chechens refused to approach the US while fighting against Russia.
now tell me when they refused to approach the us (dudaev's time) and when they got (cia and cia trained wahabists from all the world) and that happened after dudaev was killed.
dudaev was opponent of both russia and usa and he got killed. you guys had dzokhar who was really commited to build chechnya all others taht came after him were just muh america's puppets.

We sent smth like 15k soldiers to capture Grozny with 5k chechens.

it IS retardness

I remember also best units didn't fight and shitties fought. Total chaos!

dude why they had to use partially old 60's equipment when during 80-s whole soviet union got drastically rearmed. how you know what kind of radios chechnyans had ? you had better or at least your decryption knowledge was much better that killed dudaev and granted you victory in 2nd war

> if i ask chechens from chechnya nowadays they will say that russia is their friend
Russians and their puppet kadyrov are trying hard, there are many pro-russian cucks there. They even made an "IT-center" where paid shills sit all days shilling for russia and god emperor putin and his son kadyrov, father of all chechens.
But until now the vast majority of people there hate russians, putin and kadyrov, they just are afraid to oppose openly occupants' rule.

>they had warm clothes
Jackets, regular Jackets.
>they had lighter radios
Not every fighter was equipped with a radio.
>Damn, they even had tactical vests
Which were sewed by their wives or sisters.

>cia and cia trained wahabists from all the world
The hundred foreigners under Khattabs command? Khattab was surely not CIA trained or even had symphaty for the USA.

no no no that's a lie whoever told you that or are you merely assuming that ?
you see i've talked with chechens from there and they actually told me that they were spared the fate of syria. it really makes sense that they like russia since they try hard to join russian military while russians themselves don't want to

>1993 riots

It's mind-blowing how much crazy shit happened during the Yeltsin-period. I'm so glad Russia is back on it's feet.

Chechens participated in genocide, be happy that you're far enough from Ch*chnya, probably you will avoid slow and painful death.

albanian ?
why you post anime always, are you half swedish half chechen ?
>The hundred foreigners under Khattabs command? Khattab was surely not CIA trained or even had symphaty for the USA.
sure and isis aren't created by usa/isarel ?
just google "pankisi gorge wahhabis" all international wahabis were trained there by cia and later were sent in chechnya. that arab general actually died there

You know they watch over the Internet? There were several teens punished for having a picture of Khattab on their phones.
And they are joining the Russian military (or the Chechen part of it) to train themselves. The key aspect is training them for an emergency case and not for fighting for Russia.

>Chechens participated in genocide
Bullshit

>how you know what kind of radios chechnyans had ?
Because it's common knowledge. Soldiers knew it, journalists knew it. Soldiers were facing the results of successful chechen desinformating interruptions in the radio talks during battle of Grozny. Chechens could easily coordinate their little squads with little personal Kenwood radios while federal troops have been using old soviet backpack squad radios.
>you had better or at least your decryption knowledge was much better that killed dudaev and granted you victory in 2nd war
1. Dudaev got killed not because of decryption, but because of his phone signal. Probably radio telephone is not as safe as some people thought it to be.
2. Dudaev was killed during 1st war. The second war was won because of better equpment, better planning, pro-government bias in mass media and successful attempts to separate the chechen troops and commanders.
>Not every fighter was equipped with a radio.
But many.
>Jackets, regular Jackets.
In Grozny's close quarters all that means is how warm you are, not how well camouflaged you are (if you're not a sniper).
>Which were sewed by their wives or sisters.
No, they also had the factory-made vests. Like Chicom vests which were used by afghan mujahedeens.

> i've talked with chechens from there
You talked with pro-russian kadyrov supporters. I know there are many of them, and they are disgusting.
> they were spared the fate of syria
They had it worse than in syria actually
> it really makes sense that they like russia since they try hard to join russian military while russians themselves don't want to
Occupied Chechenia is poor as fuck, only rich people there are kadyrov, his relatives and his close friends. Most of the people there are uneducated and stupid, they wan't to serve in army cuz after that they can find a job in police or stay in army as officers and get money.
I do not justify that, but you can't argue with many of those people, some do it just for money, some are really brainwashed cucks.
Come on, there are many propidorussian cucks, face it

>implying i talked them on internet
i talked to tourists in georgia, wrestlers in 2015 if you want to know exact date

I post anime cuz I like it.
No, I'm Chechen.

you see if dudaev hadn't died in 1st chechen war there would be no 2nd chechen war because no mujahediins would cross in dagestan and if there would be 2nd war the war would be vastly different from what happened.

> Bullshit

That's what would hero Basayev tell you.

stfu if not you there would be no genocide because we would've won taht war

By the end of the 1st war Dudaev already was more of a puppet in the hands of guerilla commanders. Aslan Maskhadov also had little control of his own commanders.
The second war would happen anyway. Either because of someone's political ambition or because of Ichkeria becoming Al Kaida's training ground or because of any other probable reason.
And it wouldn't be that different.
So, people of other nationalities shouldn't even attemt to settle around Ichkeria to begin with?

>likes anime
>is homo
hmmmm

>isis aren't created by usa/isarel
They are not.

>The second war was won
Not because of the things you listed, but because of the heavy bombardement of Chechnya. Chechens withdraw from Grozny for the safety of their civilians, meanwhile one family was attracted by money and power and changed the sites. Then their power was established and since then it is a Chechen vs Chechen war.

They were still not in the position to tell their own opinion.

No, thats what the reality is.
The drastic withdrawal of Russians living in Chechnya was not because of a genocide on them, but because they just left the country since there was a war-like situation and in the end a war. The mass graves discovered in Chechnya were only full of Chechen civilians, no Russians. A genocide on Russians in Chechnya is a lie to justify the war.

The second war was initiated by Putins false-flag bombings of Moscow.

Why aren't you busy planning a Coup in niggermountain?

>ichkeria becoming al kaida's training ground
you see it would like never happen under dudaev
>By the end of the 1st war Dudaev already was more of a puppet in the hands of guerilla commanders
so they thought about our president eduard shevardnadze about being controlled by generals whether it was lie or truth we may never know we only know that all generals got fucked and all generals including tengiz kitovani and jaba ioseliani of infamous "mkhedrioni". and so would happen with dudaev most likely
>So, people of other nationalities shouldn't even attemt to settle around Ichkeria to begin with?
what does us winning war without you intervening have anything to do settling around ichkeria ???

Heavy support from Saudis and Americans. Weapons, vehicles, MBTs, IFVs, AA-systems, EW-systems etc. etc.

Why don't you inform yourself first, and then comment?

Chechnya was well-bombed even before.
>you see it would like never happen under dudaev
Dudaev wouldn't have much of a power.

>The second war was initiated by Putins false-flag bombings of Moscow.
nope casus belli was of you getting into dagestan
>They were still not in the position to tell their own opinion.
so they were in georgia and still controlled ? you are being ridiculous
>>isis aren't created by usa/isarel
wow...just wow you are being ridiculous again everyone know that it is.
dude just think about all of this throughoutly it is irrelevant whether you "win" this debate or not and if you'll thiunk about it on clear mind you'll realize i am speaking truth

>But until now the vast majority of people there hate russians, putin and kadyrov

Are you upset because you can't find a boyfriend?

Ich bin mir 99% sicher das isis entstanden ist dank den usa uesz.
Wenn ich mir nicht täusche hat der usa Afghanistan waffen geliefert in der sovjet-afghan krieg (1979).
Usa hat das gemacht so das der sovjet union nicht mehr grund sammeln könnte. Genau das gleiche wie mit nord/sud vietnam.
Die waffen sind dann aber dort geblieben und rebelen aus afghanistan haben die benutzt für ihr eigene burgerkriege. Das ganze geld / waffen von USA ist benutzt durch rebelen um ihre krieg möglich zu machen.
Clinton hat vor relativ kurze zeit noch finanzielle hilfe gegeben an rebelen in Aleppo wenn ich mir nicht täusche, dassorgt dafür das es sowas wie isis gibt

Schreibe dir das auf deutsch an sodas die andere das nicht verstehen und ich dir nicht peinlich mache

well during 1939-1940 winter war finns were highly supplied by germans and italians with tanks planes small arms food camouflage clothing and motorized vehicles

>plot twist: neither chechens nor finns were supported much they were both expected to loose fast.

Calm your tits. This is the point here Russians always go full bwah when they get told and start making up things.

-Foreign support
-Poor leadershi
-etc.

> The drastic withdrawal of Russians living in Chechnya was not because of a genocide on them, but because they just left the country since there was a war-like situation and in the end a war. The mass graves discovered in Chechnya were only full of Chechen civilians, no Russians. A genocide on Russians in Chechnya is a lie to justify the war.

Yeah sure. Fucking azeris massacred armenians in Baku but glorious chechens dindu nufing.

No, they didn't revenge for 1944 to people born after these events.
No, they weren't full of nationalism.

You may brainwash western idiots, not me.

You lie like there could be ONLY huge graves as a sign of discrimination. No, people might be vocally harrassed, some kidnapped, robbed, beaten.

It's a fact your country mass murdered innocent Chechens during the wars. Grozny '95 is a prime example of your savagery.

A reaction like this couldn't have been a surprise.

We recieved next to no aid. Germans blocked all the aid that other countries wanted to give us.

>Chechnya was well-bombed
It was, but Kadyrov switching the sides made the possibilty of installing a new leader with many fighters on his side.

>so they were in georgia and still controlled
Yes. There is a saying in Chechnya that Kadyrovs spies are everywhere. Chechens are even under threat in Germany for being against Kadyrov. He threatened them, especially their relatives living in Chechnya, in a video for participating in a demonstration.
>ISIS
ISIS is the radical variant of the natural reaction of Sunnis being oppressed by Shia

Sicherlich dank der USA, aber nicht durch die USA. Die USA hat die Mujahedin in Afghanistan unterstützt, das war auch damals öffentlich, so haben sie auch die Süd-Viatnamesen und Süd-Koreaner unterstützt. Alles was die Welt weiß. Doch haben sich ein Teil der afghanischen Mujahedin, unteranderem Bin Laden, gegen die Amerikaner gestellt weil sie nicht für die USA gegen die Sowjets gekämpft haben, sondern für die Muslime und Afghanen.
Clinton und die Bewaffnung syrischer Rebellen ist auch nichts geheimes. Die Amerikaner bewaffnen dort säkulare Kräfte um gegen ISIS und andere "islamistische" Gruppen zu kämpfen, und nicht um sie zu unterstützen.
Ich bezweifle dass du mich in eine peinliche Situation bringen würdest mit deinen "Argumenten"
>No, they didn't revenge for 1944 to people born after these events.
Well, they didn't. Just a fact.
>No, they weren't full of nationalism
Well, they were. But that doesn't include random killing of 200 000 Russians. The wife of the "Chechen nationalistic leader Dudaev" was a Russian (and Jew).

you took your own bait finn
L M A O

Eben, also man kann glaube ich schon sagen das ohne der USA es sowas wie wir isis heute kennen, gar nicht gegeben hätte.

Wife of dudaev supported chechens. She chose to stop being russian. Sure, why would chechens kill her?
> Well, they didn't. Just a fact.
> Well, they were. But that doesn't include random killing of 200 000 Russians.

Stop lie! It's non-sense. There were many conflicts in post-soviet space. Nationalists of all nations finally revenged. But glorious CHECHENS didn't revenges, no they were innocent dindus.

Even in fucking baltics people were called occupants and insulted, there were huge fights between estonian and russian youth but you say there wasn't any discrimination.

Yeah, she stopped being Russian, right. Yes.

There is a difference between a fucking genocide and "revenge". Chechens didn't hunt Russians, they didn't imprisoned or enslaved them. They were focused on stabilizing the situation of Chechnya by disarming pro-Russian warlords and overthrowing the pro-Russian government. The Russians just left the country. Why should they stay in powdered soon-going to be independent/or in a war Republic? Most of them were forced to move their in 1944

> Chechens didn't hunt Russians, they didn't imprisoned or enslaved them

They did. They kidnapped girls, they were robbing, killing and beating.

your diaspora is notoriously known for being dangerous and criminal people. Do you say they behaved different way in Chechnya?

Are threads like this proof that the Soviets should've just used the Caucasus region as a nuclear test site/waste dump?

+15 roubles have been added to your bank accounts, tovarischtchi

okay so you denied to me that usa had to d oanything with creating isis later you told your german compatriot that isis was armed by usa didn't want to "humiliate" you by saying this but you speak a lot of shit and lie, oh chechens did kill rape and pillage it is just a fact which is not much used in russia because you guys are friends now. why are you denying it ? are you saying some bullshitty chivalric chechen propaganda on fucking Sup Forums ? grow up nobody gives a damn about chechnya and caucasus and even portraying chechens as knights in white armor's won't change atitude towards you.

>called occupants and insulted
i wonder why?
youtu.be/j-w_ZEONsDs

They didn't. Some warlords did, but they were deceased during the stabilization of the situation.

Fuck off New Zealand.

I said that ISIS have been created by American actions in Iraq, not by America itself. And I didnt tell the German something different. I told him the same thing I told you.
What the fuck are you talking about you retard?
I am denying something that never happened. It might be true that some warlords did kidnappings, but they were enemies of the Ichkerian government and the Chechens in general. They were not supported by Chechens. Quite the opposite, Labazanov was supported by Russia.

Caucasians are subhumans and must be purged
No matter how much will die, maybe in future when our government will change this would be our holy mission to wipe these niggers.

The reality is that your population is going downwards while we are increasing. "Churkas" will take over Russia sooner or later.

you said that isis was created thx to usa which can have 2 meanings, whether you meant that isis got created thanks to american armament or isis got created thanks to american actions would be hard to understand if you hadn't mentioned that clintons armed isis that makes wonderfully clear what you meant, stop playing with words and playing cat and mouse how old are you ? 17 ?

I said that ISIS was created by Sunnis because of the American invasion and their support for Shia.
What I didn't say was that Clinton supported ISIS, I said that America is arming and supporting other secular groups to fight against ISIS and other Sunni groups. Dude, either your German sucks or you should way less trust into the Google translator

Not him but the person that wrote him in German.
Google translate seems a bit off, not quite sure how well it translated our sentences, judging from your reply, not very well.

Chechens fought back their attacker, despite being outnumbered and not having pretty much infinite supply on weapons and ammo like the Russians (hence why Chechens mostly had to fire in short bursts, otherwise they'd run out of ammo too quick) the fighters still managed to save what could be saved.

Russia responded by killing everything they could in horrible ways.
They destroyed many innocent families lives and killed many innocent.
They widely tortured Chechens "for fun", and now you come here to say it was wrong of Chechens to fight back?

Chechnya wanted it's independence like many other countries after the collapse of the S.U.
Russia didn't want to lose more ground, because that'd mean a sign of weakness to the rest of the world, so because of that many innocent had to suffer.

Then when fighting back those who attempt to destruct their civilization, Chechens are labeled as "bad guys".

Not very fair t b h.

Things being the way they are now are in my opinion better, a war is never good for a society. So it's good Kadyrov restored relations with Russia.
But in my opinion Chechnya still does deserve the independence and it surely does not mean it's right what Russia did to Chechnya, even if now things are calm.

Oh wow. Yet another muzzie in Europe. Fuck off and die.

Based Chechens stood up to their evil opressors.

Ah fuck off you faggot, fucking keyboardwarrior

Thanks Brazil

i am half german you faggots there was 1 same person taht said both and it was that chechen german prntscr.com/dstt4k
what will you say about genocides done by your hero basayev ? or was he also a traitor ?

Eternal glory to Russia.

Sorry to say that, but your German sucks bro

Fuck you Brazil

>you will never run around innawoods with an as-val, hunting mountain chimps

sorry to say that but you are retarded i am born in germany i have lived in germany until i got 6 years old and sure as hell i can speak geramn very well because i am visiting germany quite often and speak to my mother. i might make some fast speaking mechanical mistakes talking german but i would never misunderstand something major.

>be chechen
>get so cucked by russia you fight their wars for them while claiming you won

Thats BCК94
i served with that :^)
Imagine subsonic bullet coming throught churka body