/bc/ Bandcamp Thread

[Jace Mitchell]

New bandcamp thread.
Recc, love each other.

Tells us how do you record your stuff.
Do you play live gigs? What about your gear?

[Jonathan Brown]

ex-yugoslavia.bandcamp.com/

>electronic, post-punk, IDM, psychedelic, kinda krautrock at times.

This is our first album as a duo, we also have our both projects separately:

lucasmaino.bandcamp.com/

>psychedelic, funky, warm, tropicalia.

pipomolecula.bandcamp.com/

>electronic, krautrock-ish, post-punk

[Jackson Baker]

If I did play live gigs it would be me pressing play and maybe singing.

recc

erictaxxon.bandcamp.com/album/ode-to-rob-schneider-ode-to-the-people

>NEW ALBUM
>sound collage
>negativland

I said I would return feedback last thread, but I didn't get any feedback from anyone I hadn't already given feedback to. Anyway, returning all feedback.

Don't forget to rate/review on RYM: rateyourmusic.com/artist/eric_taxxon

[Joshua Morales]

daremr.bandcamp.com

>Lo-fi hip-hop
>Abstract beat
>Jazzy shit
>Perfect for smoking

Just starting to play live gigs where I'm living using a Novation Launchpad and some regular midi controllers + guitar.

Heavily influenced by Nujabes, Madlib, Dilla, Fly-Lo, DOOM

[Hunter Gomez]

windowlistener.bandcamp.com

new release: windowlistener.bandcamp.com/album/infection

sc: soundcloud.com/windowlistener

>experimental electronic, inspired by Xenakis, Autechre, etc.
>metaphysical and dystopian themes

>tell us how do you record your stuff
long process of mixing and arranging tracks (which are either made by synths or noise)
>do you play live gigs
nah

[Austin King]

Hey cool to see you've put out something new.

dave-roland.bandcamp.com/album/the-original-music-to-the-last-ride

>ambient, synthpop

A new EP should be coming soon.

[Jaxon Davis]

biggoose.bandcamp.com/releases

>some shoegays
>also some comfy minimal acoustic stuff
>working on a new record album

[Justin Edwards]

melrosee.bandcamp.com/album/melrose

>Slowcore, shoegaze, recorded on handheld cassette

love this, kinda reminds me of like elliott smith mixed with some attic abasement

[Liam Martin]

rex

noriginal.bandcamp.com

>boom bap
>rap

sumn new on my soundcloud

soundcloud.com/nathanoriginal/tracks

[Sebastian Morales]

marsupialsuit.bandcamp.com/track/hawaii

Newest Release: open.spotify.com/album/63usSSJI1NhQ4q3bmfxaJ5

>noisepop, shoegaze, dreampunk

Record shit with tascam 488, try to limit overdubs....played a few live gigs hopefully more to come

[Wyatt Perez]

>dave-roland.bandcamp.com/album/the-original-music-to-the-last-ride

shit, loving this shit, digging those synths. fav tracks are opening titles and chilling at franks

[Gavin Wilson]

inselfdefense.bandcamp.com/releases

>Minimal Stuff
>Instrumental

EP coming soon.

Any feedback is welcomed. Will give some feedback and recs later.
Listen and enjoy.

I'll also ask you, users. Have you ever tried some unusual song estructures or foreign ideas on your tracks?

Not actually playing gigs, and gear...well, I work with mi iPad and my PC, just that.

Recs

[Noah Jones]

cont. >Tells us how do you record your stuff.
Mostly vsts for Lucas Y Los Mapaches and actual synths with Ex-Yugoslavia.
Do you play live gigs?
>Yes, last friday I had my first gig on my own and it felt really good, gonna do it again.
What about your gear?
>Volca bass, padkontrol, ms-20, guitar, some pedals and Live 8. Adding a Boss Dr550 and a volca fm soon.

what a beautiful dreamy atmosphere. Nice choice on the cuts and reverb. Sometimes it reminnds me of old meditation cassettes (I got lots of those). I'll download it so I can listen to it tonight with earphones.

I like this. I would totally gig with you. Cool samples and continuity. Jazzy vibes really nice as well.

I like the concept behind this, as you can actually hear that. Second track is really tense, I rec this.

I feel like I kinda underestimate singer-songwriters with just an acoustic guitar and their voice and I don't know why, because I love guys like Jandek and Elliott Smith, so I gave this a try. Your work feels really honest and I really apreciate that in music. Your voice is pretty sweet. Reccomending this.

More reccs:

[Ayden Taylor]

Hottest Dungeon Synth release this year.

Check it out guys

pagodamast.bandcamp.com/album/kingdom

[Adam Lewis]

>tfw you will never produce anything as good as these
this is why i dont post anymore

[Jeremiah Long]

They all took hard work

[Luis Collins]

>comparing
you're wrong dude, you don't have to compete with anyone, just enjoy what you're doing and nothing else. Who else than you to enjoy your music. Also, stop wasting time thinking that and work more on your music, to a point that you'll be happy with.

huge rec here.

>Have you ever tried some unusual song estructures or foreign ideas on your tracks?
Yes, I had a friend from a label once in my studio and he gave me some ideas I wouldn't had used if it were me, and they came out pretty good. Also, I use oblique strategies cards a lot.

[Landon Hernandez]

hypergiantsasmr.bandcamp.com/album/as-repeating-rthyhms-pt-ii

>s p a c e

r e c s:
I did two live shows, basically just a laptop and some candles
>but incredibly loud

[Ryan Davis]

Loving this. Saw it a few threads back and never responded but I haven't stopped listening to it since. Really awesome work.

[Asher Campbell]

you just gotta scoop the mids bro

[Adam Cooper]

maxoverheight.bandcamp.com/track/sleep

let me know if any bits are good

[Connor Bell]

firstbasetapes.bandcamp.com/album/mermaids-dont-exist

>bedroom noise
>lo-fi
>bummer rock
>cassette

this is fantastic!

[Xavier Davis]

destroyah.bandcamp.com/album/the-annunciation

>stoner metal, stoner punk, doom/hardcore

[Chase Rivera]

the new song is on the christmas its not christmas themed tho

yamir.bandcamp.com/album/yamir
>post-rock
>guitar ambient // dark ambient
>experimental electronics
>my music is available on iTunes, Amazon, Spotify, and others

>you can rate all of my releases on RYM if you're into that:
rateyourmusic.com/artist/yamir_c_

>please follow me on spotify, it really doesn't matter if you listen to me or not:
open.spotify.com/artist/3s2BQA0wYsNqPZmR3kAN2p

>music video i made [bad]:
youtube.com/watch?v=LCXv3ANqDWw

>Tells us how do you record your stuff.
for field recordings my phone, for acoustic guitar i toss my ipod inside of it and record, for everything else my shitty mic or connect my guitar directly to the PC.

>Do you play live gigs? What about your gear?
no. barely have any gear outside of an amp and a footswitch.

>negativland
please be good

recommendations

[Grayson Thompson]

hiddensongs.bandcamp.com/
hiddensongs.bandcamp.com/
hiddensongs.bandcamp.com/

> Lo-Fi, progressed to more electronic and little more Hi-Fi
>Los Angeles/Florida
> Described as authentic as fuck
> Described as bizarre
>Probably not that good compared to others

(reply from last thread cause it was archived)

Dreamy, i love any band influenced by slowcore. Your album could use some better artwork... Id even offer to help with this, cause the music is excellent (obscured in that cassette sound )

I would say you sound more like surf pop, kind of like the 2010 wave of Beach Goth, Best Coast, Burger Records, Wavves. Fun in the sun vibe, not exactly my thing but still really well recorded and performed. I do like the noisey and fuzzed out guitar

Probably my favorite pick from this thread. You have a really 90's era sound that i love, especially the clashing of guitars and feedback swells. Bookmarked for later listening.

Other Recs
> Some extra art I made if you want to check it out (sorry for the giant double posts before)

pc-98.tumblr.com/
pc-98.tumblr.com/
pc-98.tumblr.com/

[Elijah Baker]

benjaminhickey.bandcamp.com/album/princess

>bedroom pop/dream pop
>feels/starwberry jam era animal collective inspired

follow on spotify! open.spotify.com/artist/4PsSSA9Z2hYBH8bulN3IiL

reccs

[Lincoln Walker]

Hey Sam

We're gonna start recording the new album this week. It's going to feature some guests that you may or may not be familiar with...that have posted in these threads...

Our most recent full length
>emo
>alt/indie
>progressive rock
>psych
>post-punk
>ambient
petalportmusic.bandcamp.com/album/eye-contact

Our most recent EP
>alt/indie
>lo-fi
feelssoreelmusic.bandcamp.com/album/short-run

Check out epyllia, jr adelberg, joplin rice, cobwebs, clothes, turtlenecked, wept

[James Johnson]

keithcrystals.bandcamp.com/album/pink-horizon

>Ambient Electronic, IDM, Neo-Psych

[Austin Campbell]

I hate uploading tracks on bandcamp, literally takes hours for me..

totinoboy.bandcamp.com/

>trap
>dark
>noise

[Zachary Thompson]

pierchan.bandcamp.com/

>annual avant-garde Halloween themed synthpop EPs

[Matthew Walker]

Hello guys!

sleepoverintruder.bandcamp.com/releases

>80s electro
>Synthwave

I just released my first EP. Any feedback is welcome. :)

I'll give feedback in a while

[Ryan Hughes]

Guy, dig your EP a lot. Probably downloading it tomorrow if my PC works. lol

[Gabriel Jones]

Here

These guys I've already listen and they have a really awesome work, recommend everyone.

Your voice is beautiful and really fits the music you're trying to do. Sounds like a home studio album with profissional studio quality of production. Love it all, congrats! :D

Somehow reminds me of Daniel Johnston work, short, straight to the point, a little caotic, nostalgic and really honest. I like it :)

[Adrian Rivera]

Thank you! I'm glad haha

[Parker Morris]

just bought your EP man, really digging your shit

[Samuel Wood]

Oh man, thank you so much!! You made my day :D

[Julian Russell]

bup

[Caleb Kelly]

depoco.bandcamp.com

psych post punk experimental
just me in my apartment

[Adam Scott]

augustopiccinini.bandcamp.com/album/xmas-album

> xmas_album
> made last year during christmas
> sound collage, plunderphonics, experimental music.

Fuck christmas.
But i do want people to listen, even if it means for you to come back here and spread your hate over it.
cheers

[Dominic Richardson]

This is interesting, I've never really listened to sound collages. Feels like it goes out of control slowly throughout Rob Schneider
Ode to the people is like I'm watching a film, pretty entertaining kinda like a scrapbook of memories.
Now lo-fi hip hop is totally something I love. This is very nice and reminds me back when adult swim bumps were extremely interesting. Props to you. Downloading

nickkeeling.bandcamp.com/album/scarfer
>experimental, 8-track tapes, piano, lo-fi

I did experiments with 5 separate 8-track machines all hooked together in tape loops. I also released it on 8-Track and cassette.

[Jace King]

not high but really vibing with these tracks

[Lucas Miller]

Thank you, I appreciate it, and Daniel Johnston is great. Thats a big compliment. Maybe just because both our stuff is kind of outsider music

[Adam Anderson]

digging the spotify one more, really fucking catchy actually, used to use tascam 488 but too much work/tedious......

[Isaac Smith]

Oh whoops, sorry for the wait. I really like this, the things playing on the tape loops really mesh. This album has an odd atmosphere about it, it's kind of sad in a way I like a lot.

[Gavin Gray]

garminder.bandcamp.com/

>Experimental
>Synth
>Mixed Genre
>Improv
>Funny Comedy
>Scary
>Avant Garde
>Joy

New Christmas tune to put you in the holiday spirit! My bud Pete is working on adding the lyrics to all our content for folks to sing along! And for one of our newer songs play along in a choose your own adventure style musical joyrneu! make sure you bring along your finest full stereo listening equipment! Cee ya now! please

[Camden Barnes]

awkwardbullshit.bandcamp.com/album/buried-in-the-bed

Hours of recording and re-recording. I play e-drums live and then make loops. Lotsa loops.

Catch our dumbass set this fri at shirley's temple

[Parker Richardson]

Tapes coming soon also :)

[Chase Turner]

thecleanupcrew.bandcamp.com/track/movin-bass

Electronic, more dance based, With some hip hop influences.

[Anthony Myers]

polysemy.bandcamp.com/album/ambedo
>experimental, psychedelic
>jizz-jazz

check out this music video:
youtube.com/watch?v=2yLNdf-VOuw

recs

[Jace Bell]

wackysoutherncurrent.bandcamp.com/

>ambient-rock, jazzy, soundtrack, slow-core

All previous albums are now on bandcamp for free or name your price.

Cheers!

wsc-music.tumblr.com/

>Tells us how do you record your stuff.
with microphones, I have a pretty old school approach

>Do you play live gigs?
Not yet, I am searching musicians for this purpose

[Eli Morales]

igetbye.bandcamp.com/album/still-monsters
>prog
>metal
>punk
>riffin
>goofin n gaffin

[Juan Harris]

stickyrecords.bandcamp.com/album/disease
>black metal
>lo-fi

[Brody Hall]

avantier.bandcamp.com/album/solitude

>synthwave, chiptune, chillwave

The album is free to download, but you can support me by buying it if you want to

[Adam Wood]

retrieval.bandcamp.com/

>indie
>alternative
>rock

>Tell us how do you record your stuff.
I run everything through my multi effects pedal and into my pc.

>Do you play live gigs?
Used to

Recs

[Tyler Reed]

I recorded the tracks in my room using nothing but guitars, i get most of my influence from warm bossa chords and alt riffs so if ur into tht stuff then listen

heartcenter.bandcamp.com

RECS:

[Isaac Fisher]

this is some good shit

[Joseph Cruz]

duuuuuuude
I wish I could make stuff like this

recs:
My shit:
varsas.bandcamp.com/
>noise music, music with noise and sometimes noiseless music too

My newest recording I want to put on the next album. What do you guys think?
clyp.it/qfg2jho3
>drone metal
>The Goslings cover

[Christopher Thompson]

great stuff

[Michael Campbell]

frozenzoo.bandcamp.com/track/joy-void-3

Long track ive been working on for a while. Hard to balance music with the military but I'm slowly making progress. Miss you guys.
>prog, shoegaze, early modest mouseish

[Eli Rodriguez]

audiotrainwreck.bandcamp.com/releases
>Indie
>Classical
>Christmas
>Let me know some more tags pls

[Owen Baker]

eichinschmeichin.bandcamp.com/album/nature-versus-nurture-complete-except-for-tracks-7-12-25-and-26

>still incomplete cuz of college finals
>not as good as Senioritis
>the beginning of the end for my music career
>lo-fi DIY avant pop experimental song things
>amateur walls of sound, crunchy
>esoteric instrumentation as always
>melodies and chord progressions and such

RECS IN A SEC

[Nathaniel Nelson]

This one is an anomaly. I downloaded it because of how good it was. Give it a whirl, folks.

Gonna have to check this out; I've been gettin into Negativland lately. It's not even funny.

This appears in every single one of these threads, but it deserves it.

[Brandon Cook]

absynthe1.bandcamp.com/track/i-just-want-to-be-cool
>garage punk
>lo-fi

[Leo Bailey]

Not really in the genre, but the new reording sounds amazing!

[Julian Bailey]

hiddenbayrecords.bandcamp.com/album/brainchild

yall can order my EP 'Brainchild' on tape here! shipping out tomorrow! thanks for the love.

[Colton Myers]

Here's a question, /bandcamp/ers. Why are you making music? For me personally:

The good reasons

>Music is a good tool to transfer emotions, whether used by the artist or the audience, and prevent the emotions from lashing out later
>I've become more disciplined while doing it...many times, I have forced myself to work on it even when I didn't want to
>Very passionate about it
>Field recordings capture fleeting moments
>Has improved my social life (???!!!)
>Excellently rewarding hobby when I'm bored
>One of the more productive things I do with my life
>Some people, as much as I can't believe it, have sent me messages of encouragement to keep making my music because they like it...maybe this is a bad reason
>I never feel out of ideas- quite the opposite in fact

The bad reasons

>Desire to amass some kind of fanbase, however small, that cares about what I do
>In the back of my head, there's always a hope that I could make a career off of it, no matter how improbable that is
>Stupid fantasy of old acquaintances from school one day seeing me as a successful artiste and thinking "Hey, he wasn't such a loser/creep/dummy after all"
>It's amusing, it entertains me, for me it's the equivalent of just sitting around watching TV
>I get a buzz whenever someone compliments it
>Stubborn, irrational, impulsive challenge to myself to not quit and just push it as far as it can go

Thoughts that make me want to quit making music

>I've only been into music since eighth grade. It doesn't feel like a lifelong thing to me, not yet anyways
>I worry about how much I'm distracting myself from things that matter more, like trying to grow as a person, improve my morality, master my emotions, investigate philosophy, establish more of a definition of what I believe religiously, etc
>Feeling that music has limitations and there are things I want to say that I might not be able to say with it
>Self-awareness of all of the bad reasons I've posted above

[Camden Jackson]

seppuku-grindcore.bandcamp.com

>industrial metal influenced grindcore with noise elements

this is a split i did with fellow noise musician seishintekikutsu. he unfortunately does not have a bandcamp.

all instruments are programmed and vocals are recorded just using a voice recorder on my phone. i will eventually start doing live guitar tracking and only program drums. I would hope to play live shows eventually but i don't think anyone would be willing to play my awful noise.

[Joshua Edwards]

seaaseaa.bandcamp.com/track/paj
>sitar
>drone
>freeform rock

it's good, but I don't get any dungeon feel like I would from say, depressive silence or mortiis.
I really like this, wish more people would do stuff like it.
this is really sick, the vox could use a bit of work but everything else is real tight
this is real cool, definitely sounds bedroom though, not that thats a bad thing
I like this more and more each time I listen to it. Wish I could come see you guys
beautiful stuff, I'll keep an eye out for more of your stuff
love it
R I F F S
if I have anything negative to say, it's that its a bit too well produced. digging it though
I do it because I don't have many other hobbies anymore, I love discovering music that few have heard and I like trying to get some new sounds from that. I don't think I'm really good at it but I'll be damned if I'm just going to give it up, spent too much time and money on it. Also, my "art" compliments the music quite well.
I record with my phone, it's cheap, effective, and I'm pretty lazy so it just werks. I don't play gigs since I'm not in a band per-se, I have a friend who plays drums but we don't write together or anything, just jam every now and then.

[John Walker]

Good and bad reasons:
>I'm passionate
>I find peace and challenge at the same time coming up with something
>I'm developing my production and instrumental skills
>I want to bring new tastes into the noise genre
>I think it helped me improve as a person (and become a pretentious douche whenever it comes to art)
>I just like trying out myself in the genres I usually listen to

Things that made musig hard for me
>I quickly realised learning an instrument might be easy, but coming up with your own shit all by yourself is hard
>There's literally no active noise/drone/experimental/indie scene in my hometown, I can't make this kind of noise with others, only my friend who helps me out with his poems
>I'm poor and my current gear is absolute shit. Even though I have an SM57, my cheap laptop won't do justice to the music I usually make
>As for noise, I have to record at a high volume, which damages my hearing
>I'm too lazy to actually commit myself to the stuff I'm making, I want to put field recordings into my music, but I don't know how to do it. All I have is a cheap phone, I can't carry my laptop, mixer and SM57 around.
>I don't have enough inspiration and I can't come up with lyrics. I'm a shit songwriter.

[Landon Lewis]

Yeah, I just use my iPod for field recordings. I could probably getting a much better sound but I don't care that much. It's the same with the gear I use. I've been using GarageBand for years and feel no need to upgrade.

[Jace Wright]

Good Reasons

>I find it pleasing and amusing.
>Studied music theory by myself, so I need to use it. lol
>Great thing in my free time.

Bad reasons

>Stardom
>Stardom
>Stardom

Thoughts that make me wat to quite making music.

>Melodies are complicated as fuck.
>The fear of my work stations dying.

[Ayden Scott]

junedarby.bandcamp.com/album/june
>animal-collective-ripoff
>Denver
>devotional
>rockabilly

Recs:

[Jose Gonzalez]

Do you mean that the melodies you write are too complicated, or that you find it difficult to write melodies?

[Tyler Allen]

izetskal.bandcamp.com/

>power electronics, ambient, some drone. loud and noisy

izetskal.bandcamp.com/

[Jaxon Watson]

The second. Rythm and chords are pretty easy for me, but I struggle with melodies.

[Jordan Allen]

possuminmyroom.bandcamp.com/releases

>folk, lofi, bedroom folk, slowcore

ffo: the microphones, duster
I go into these like intense writing and recording things where I basically record as I write and eventually put together a song. I record everything on a multitracker app on my phone and I edit it on there and on my computer. I play all instruments. Working on throwing together some gigs next year, if you're from north jers hit me up.

[Bentley Hernandez]

umm good reasons
>music isn't a competition (unless you're entering one or trying desperately to get famous)
>when people line up after your set to tell you how much they loved it and where they can buy your stuff
>playing brings me out of a bad mood like none other
>made hundreds of dollars in door money and merch/album sales. gives me motivation to continue
>when the best band in your city asks you to play with them, feels like you've reached a new level and your work paid off.
>make friends with cool people, possibly travel with them

bad parts
>honestly none
except
>willneverbearockstar.jpeg
and maybe
>embarrassing equipment failure
>when you have to play to the wrong crowd and wonder why you're even there and whose idea it was to book this sh it
>the singer of my band is really REALLY talented and an insecure part of me thinks I hold them back.

[Noah Brown]

I listened to Quiet
you lied to me

bretty harsh though, not the type of noise I prefer, but the aesthetics are great. I like the album cover.

[Samuel Myers]

haha.
thank you for taking your time to listen to it and give feedback, it's much appreciated.

that's fine, i'm still working on my style and trying to improve.

what type of noise do you prefer? out of curiosity.

[Austin King]

recommend this, i really like it

grogorgan.bandcamp.com/releases

> lofi, folk, ugly, ambient

here's my ugly lofi demo tape from summer, it's similar to earlier Smog and the Microphones

[Nolan Nguyen]

Sharper tone, with complementary clean (not distorted) sounds in the background to make a contrast (like tape loops to create a base rhythm, musique concrète)
with high-pitched feedback occasionally to break the listener out of his comfort zone even more

[Gavin Taylor]

deepwoods.bandcamp.com/
>tape label, experimental artists

deepwoods.bandcamp.com/album/deepwoods-transitions-vol-1-autumnal-atmospheres
>autumn mixtape, featuring most of our artist roster

>deepwoods.bandcamp.com/album/ambedo
stoked to be putting out tapes for Polysemy's latest release

[Christopher Wright]

Hmm...I'm gonna check out your music in a little bit. If you're interested, I might even consider a low-key collab because I love writing melodies.

[Colton Thompson]

highly recommend

[Brody Parker]

That sounds great, user. :D

[Angel Rivera]

Do you have a link to your music? Sounds like you guys have a real professional thing going on. My curiosity is piqued

[Michael Flores]

Cool, listened to "Crimson Leaves" and already have some ideas in my head. If I come up with something worthwile, I'll shoot you an e-mail. Could be fun

[Jonathan Richardson]

Wow, thanks, Eichin. And it surely could be. ;)

[Liam Rivera]

good:
>releases myself
>is something that i can do rather than falling into NEET-esque tendencies
>always want to something progressively better and better
>want to implement emotions and ideas that I feel
bad:
>it feels as if people misunderstand my message
>i can't fully make what i want, due to my bad memory
>i don't have good equipment, only a laptop, so my work is hindered
>my work is never fully "correct", and it will never be recognized by any publication, or fanbase

[Julian Nguyen]

nice digits

Good:

>helps me release my tension after a stressful day/week
>is a way for me to improve myself
>i can progressively find new and better ways to make and create
>i can explore the random stuff that floats around in my consciousness
>i can have fun with friends

bad:

>i want some recognition for it
>i want a career out of it
>it makes me feel like maybe people will like me more

I will never quit music

[Nathaniel Cooper]

Thank you for finally noticing the nice digits

[Jayden Flores]

Aren't all those (You)'s enough for you? :^DDDD

[Gabriel Lopez]

Listen bub, I worked HARD for those quads

[Ian Rivera]

bump

[David Lee]

pmub

[Brandon Williams]

now THIS is a nice indie album cover
I can't listen to the actual music rn though, I'll check it tomorrow

[Matthew Gray]

hey man thanks. me and my girlfriend made it ourselves. hope you like the music

[Gavin Myers]

kind of looks like a paysage d'hiver cover

[Jordan Garcia]

luciddreamboys.bandcamp.com/album/a-pleasant-surprise

new single, check it out Sup Forums

i use a laptop microphone, an acoustic guitar, VST instruments and a drum sequencer

i've been asked to play live gigs but i don't know many drummers and i don't think my stuff would translate well

recs
comfy as fuck
perfectly sad, really like it

[Hudson Gray]

^^
meant not OP