Why is he so praised by neckbeards? He's basically the Weird Al of the 60's

Why is he so praised by neckbeards? He's basically the Weird Al of the 60's

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Is the usual response to someone who has not heard Frank Zappa's music.

Musically, he was pretty ahead of his time desu and he had a lot of ideas that would become commonplace in the future. Also, most great musicians only make a few great albums. Zappa probably put out at least a dozen great albums.

To be honest I'm just baiting, I like Zappa, specially the first records with The Mothers

You don't have to bait to get people to post man

Because it is supposedly "smart" music. His music is on par with how retarded Rocky Horror Picture Show is.

That movie sucks ass and the normies fucking LOSE it when you tell them so.

I don't care I just like to antagonize people

I feel you everyone is butthurt nowadays it's fun

1. Weird Al is good.
2. He's not similar to Weird Al beyond writing light-hearted lyrics.

I'm glad you agree. I don't understand why it's so popular. Don't even get me started on the theatre showings they do of that movie, where all these assholes cosplay as movie characters and do dumbass shit.

I went to go see The Room in a theatre a few years back. I had seen the movie several times and thought it would be fun to see it on a big screen. However, I wasn't aware there was fan bullshit to go along with that movie too. As soon as it started, people started shrieking and throwing plastic spoons and reciting every line of the film. I waited for a full two minutes and got the fuck out of there.

Good to see likeminded people on here. Fuck the hype.

Just started really listening through Zappa maybe a week or two ago. So far I've been loving Hot Rats and Joes Garage. Where do I go from here?

check out absolutely free and sleep dirt. these are GREAT albums

Check out the mothers stuff, were only in it for the money is goat and weasels ripped my flesh is a close second

This is an outright lie, independently of whether you like Zappa or not.

Weird Al is famous for *lyrics*, sang over music that he did not create. Zappa created innovative music and pushed forward multiple genres in a lot of original releases.

The only real comparison is that both were goofy and tried to be funny.

His early psych stuff is good as is his instrumental stuff. Zappa later became too much of retarded novelty artist for my taste

He's not even as good as Weird Al. Frank Zappa is entertaining and all, but his whole "art" shtick is nauseating.

youtube.com/watch?v=SMhwddNQSWQ

This is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read here.

It is 100 percent true. You are very stupid.

good ruse my main meme man!
you really had everyone steaming before you revealed your initial post was not in earnest! :*)

...

He definitely wrote lots of parody pastiches, just like Weird Al

Freak Out!

Frank Zappa is incomparable to Al.
Zappa was innovative and original
Btw Joe's Garage is fucking excellent, and I listen to rap/trap music

>psych

?

Zappa did psychedelic rock?

>le libertarian values
>le smarter than you satire
>haha parodies just like family guy
>wow so jazz so cool

his music in the 60s was psychedelic whether that was his goal or not. and it was his goal on we're only in it for the money

Nah, he's shit regardless of how you look at him.

Mother Of Invention is dumb gimmicky trash which has no good actual songwriting and lives off of novelty tricks and muh post-irony.

His "solo" stuff is just really weak jazz fusion because the dude has no clue how to play good jazz leading to weak voicing and technicality.

Then there's his later stuff where it's just straight up instrumental wank.

The only thing he ultimately offers is a gateway to more relatively atypical forms of music or a gateway to jazz because he offers watered down versions of both, but once you have acclimated to listening to experimental/jazz he's worthless.

>Mother Of Invention is dumb gimmicky trash which has no good actual songwriting and lives off of novelty tricks and muh post-irony.
fucking how? dont give me an answer thats anything like "lel doowop parody group xd"

If you honestly think this you unironically have shit taste. I am not joking. Develop a little bit then come back and you will realize how much genius you are actually missing and hw foolish what you just said was.

Some weak Jazz Fusion

youtu.be/nTSBR7eHL_I

People always forget that Zappa was a lot like the American Fripp and the launching point for a lot of world class musicians.

You are what you is

Sleep Dirt and Waka/Jawaka are spiritual sisters to Hot Rats. For something in a similar vein to Joes Garage, Apostrophe and Overnite Sensation are hard to beat and are generally considered to be great starting points into Zappas discog.

neckbeards do NOT praise Weird Al

fuck you

OP never claimed that

This

>He's basically the Weird Al of the 60's

So you've never actually listened to his albums, just heard one of his "funny" songs once? Half the stuff he does is instrumental jazz fusion.

Who praises weird Al? 9 year old boys back in 1989?

congrats you're a sociopath

people who dismiss zappa for his humor without hearing his music are the ultimate plebs

agreed. zappa is by no means meant for casual music fans. the dude is a total genius, completely original, prolific, diverse, and complex.
his R&B roots give him a completely unique approach to the genres he explored but his music is pure artistic expression at a very high level

this, he just happened to be a lil edgy and like dick jokes so people just consider him weird al tier

His earlier stuff is basic bitch blues/doo wop surrounded by "avant garde" bits that are a heavily watered down version of his influences. Everyone thinks Brain Police is some kind of masterpiece when it doesn't even come close to the electronic works of those that influenced him like Varese or Stockhausen.

>le "you just don't get it" meme
Fuck off. Listen to some real electric blues legends like the Kings, Hendrix, the guys in the Magic Band, Stevie Ray Vaughn they are all far more proficient at it than whatever the hell Zappa was trying to do. From a jazzy technique perspective Zappa is also as easily outdone by the likes of Wes Montgomery, Dennis Sandole, John McLaughlin, the same guitarists from the Magic Band, etc.

His more experimental sounds are nothing compared to the massive collages of Edgard Varese, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Iannis Xenakis, etc. not to mention modern artists like Autechre that just take it on a whole new level.

This is the part where you'll be "b-but he puts it all together!" well shit, why not listen to Faust I instead then? Unlike The Beatles who will do 10 seconds of experimental sounding stuff then go back to pop, or Zappa who does 3 minutes of pop 3 minutes of experimental, they actually cohesively put together all the pop, jazz, and electronic.

So why don't YOU get some taste, and actually explore the musical qualities/styles that Zappa tried to work with and failed?

No he's not.
What Weird Al does is take popular songs and re-writes the lyrics to make a spoof or a parody. While Frank Zappa on more than one occasion took passages from popular songs and incorporated them into his original compositions he did not make a career out of writing parodies or spoofs of popular songs. If anybody could be credited with being the Weird Al of the 1960s that honor would have to go to Allen Sherman.

how did he fail? he's highly regarded and respected by his peers and millions of fans around the world. using other artists work as a means to dismiss your opposition is such a weak argument anyway. zappa wasn't trying to do what any of those other guys you listed did. he made the music he wanted to and he spent his entire life doing it for the love and the joy he got from creating it and he did it an insane rate.

its clear you don't get it, and its fine if you don't. i didn't really at first either but he did some serious growing on me and now consider him one of the great american song writers no question.

I thougtht people liked it ironically

None of those are anything like Zappa. You really don't understand him at all. I mean, you think he plays electric blues, lol.

>and i listen to rap/trap music

way to entirely discredit your opinion

enjoy this stale meme while we're on the topic of Zappa

Apparently it's impossible to have a good thread without some ridiculous bait. It's sad, really.
>Mother of Invention is dumb gimmicky trash which has no good actual songwriting and lives of novelty tricks and muh post-irony.
Do you realize that The Mothers of Invention were the first rock band who incorporated social commentary into their music? Do you realize that Zappa was the first first ''rock'' musician that used satire even in some of his instrumental songs? If you're triggered by humor, maybe Zappa isn't for you then.
I can understand that you didn't enjoy his guitar solo albums. I didn't either and I'm a fan. Music isn't a competition - sure, John Mclaughlin could play incredibly fast, Wes Montgomery had a unique sound while playing with his thumb, etc. There is no correct way to play the guitar and no one's mastered it yet, because of the nature of the instrument and therefore ranking guitar players is pointless.

>muh you don't get it
I used the comparison to other artists because I don't care about recognition, I don't care about how it makes you or anyone else feel, I am looking strictly at the music itself, which is clearly lacking in comparison to the true masters. Dude doesn't have the organic feel in rhythm of his blues peers, doesn't have the variability in technique of his jazz peers, nor does he have the variety in sounds or knowledge of putting together collages of his experimental electronic peers. People only liked him because he put it together, often getting love from those who don't have a clue about the intricacies of varying musical styles.

>Can't for some reason hear the overt electric blues influence on Zappa's stuff
Never knew Zappa fans were deaf. Either that or you trying to intentionally misconstrue my statement, then I say that I never knew Zappa fans were this fucking mentally dumb.

>Do you realize that The Mothers of Invention were the first rock band who incorporated social commentary into their music?
Bob Dylan beat him to it and had a wider influence.

> Do you realize that Zappa was the first first ''rock'' musician that used satire even in some of his instrumental songs?
Nope that goes to Stan Freberg.

>If you're triggered by humor, maybe Zappa isn't for you then.
We are talking about music here dumbfuck not muh humor themes.

>John Mclaughlin could play incredibly fast, Wes Montgomery had a unique sound while playing with his thumb
I mentioned those guys because of their versatility in technique not necessarily how fast they can play. Unlike Zappa they don't rely on samey techniques for multiple situations, and know when/how to change it up. Zappa never had the tools initially, and once he had the tools he never used them right.

This is the only way teenagers know how to express themselves. Sad!

>John Mclaughlin
>versatility in technique
Ha!

Of course music is subjective so you can interpret the work of Zappa however you want. However, nearly every significant music critic as well as a vast majority of music listeners praise Zappa as a genius. You have your opinion, however it is an extreme minority. Books and books have been written analyzing what is usually considered to be an extremely high amount of quality ideas among his vast discography. By stating that Zappa is not a musical genius, you come as close to "wrong" as is possible in the world of subjective criticism.

Bob Dylan is a folk musician. There may have been many musicians who used satire before he did, but given that Zappa is for the most part obscure by today's standards, who'd even know who Stan Freberg was?
I'm not even going to dignify the ad hominem attacks with a response.
And how do you think Zappa failed as a guitar player? What do you think he should've done? Do you realize that he always played songs and guitar solos differently live? And I'm not sure what do you really expect - tapping, drop tunings, bebop solos, slide guitar? There are many extremely technically proficient guitar players, but again - it's impossible to master the instrument. Was John McLaughlin not good enough in your eyes because he didn't know use and master every single guitar technique known to man in his work?

Because he hasn't used and mastered*

Might wanna give his stuff outside Mahavishnu Orchestra and his collabs with wanky guitarists for that one.

>the tyranny of the majority
I am pretty sure I can find far larger amounts of people that'll say that Taylor Swift is a genius than Zappa. Hell I can find larger amounts of people in general saying that a good number of artists are bigger geniuses than Zappa. And if you really care about "significant music critic" love, maybe actually read some of the views on the guy when his music was still relevant like Lester Bangs calling him out on lack of interesting technique.

Highway 61 Revisited came out in 1965, before Zappa.

>People don't know Freberg as well so he's not important
You have no clue who San Freberg is do you? Typical Zappa fan who has no clue what he's talking about.

>why he failed
I would expect Zappa to do more than just basic tier guitar soloing. Change up how to do movement along frets, speed up/slow down, all that kind of stuff. Fuck, have you never listened to jazz music in your life? Zappa sounds like someone who has just acclimated to the jazz style; actually talented musicians sound like John Coltrane and before you say it: this isn't about Coltrane just being able to play fast, but play variably thus being able to offer a variety of situations/emotions from the music itself.

Lester Bangs may have levied minor criticisms towards Zappa's music (as any good critic should about any music), but I only need to direct you to his 5 star review of Hot Rats to remind you that you are being misrepresentational about Bangs' views on Zappa's brilliance. Secondly, perhaps I should have been more specific. When I say "music listeners," I was not referring to the general populous. I was rather referring to people who practice active listening, and who regard music as a genuine hobby rather than as a passive interest. This is the group you and I and many other who visit this board would belong in. Among this group, Zappa is overwhelmingly acclaimed. Now that I have clarified, you should be able to see that I was correct in my original statement, that among the landscape of subjective music criticism, your personal opinion is disagreed with not only by hundreds of other music listeners, but also many critics of extreme repute. Therefore, for lack of a better term, you could be considered to be "wrong" in the context of subjective criticism.

>People don't know Freberg as well so he's not important
Where did I say that he wasn't important? And where did I claim that someone who's not widely known isn't important or influential? Many musicians cite Zappa as an influence, even though he's generally unknown to the general public today.
>You have no clue who San Freberg is do you? Typical Zappa fan who has no clue what he's talking about.
I'm not from the US, so it would make sense that I don't know who he was, but I've informed myself now. I'll get to that ''typical Zappa fan who has no clue what he's talking about'' part later.
>I would expect Zappa to do more than just basic tier guitar soloing. Change up how to do movement along frets, speed up/slow down, all that kind of stuff.
All the kind of stuff, move up and down the neck faster or slower, speed up/slow down... For someone claiming vast knowledge of guitar playing, this sentence doesn't sound very convincing. And if your whole reasoning is that a music critic didn't like a particular artist makes said person's music not worth listening to, I'm not even sure what to tell you. Have you ever taught of getting educated on guitar playing techniques, scales, modes, rhythms and forming your own opinions?
>Fuck, have you never listened to jazz music in your life?
I'm a jazz listener too, but I also enjoy Zappa's music. And Zappa wasn't a jazz guitarist. Therefore, I don't expect to hear bebop runs, altered and tritone scale patterns. Let's actually hear some examples:
youtu.be/wqp71DOJ3aY?t=2m8s
Does this sound like something a 70's blues rock guitar player would do?
youtube.com/watch?v=qi37ziNab_g
This has to be one of the most unique guitar sounds. That's achieved by using on-board parametric equalizers. I don't think many guitar players from the 70's even thought of having those. His guitar sound is noisy, weeping, brittle and unique.
youtube.com/watch?v=B9DqykUsqRY
A polar opposite to Chunga's Revenge.

One Size Fits All

all i know is that the lolol i use bad words albums have some groovy fucking riffs

>hey guyz this is totes overrated
>half the board listens to a low frequency repetition of someone flushing a fucking toilet

honestly fuck you Sup Forums

Given that there are multiple Grimes and Beyonce threads every single day, you shouldn't set your bar too high.

Zoot Allures

So you listen to someone and think they are good because a lot of people think they are good? Like shit do you not see the problem with that? Also you think that the main internet fanbase of music fans is all that entails music fans? Your Pitchforks, Rolling Stones, Sputniks, and RYMs? I can't believe someone is actually using this as a reason.

>For someone claiming vast knowledge of guitar playing, this sentence doesn't sound very convincing.
You know exactly what I meant. I shouldn't have explain the idea of having limited music vocabulary over and over again.

>that Chunga's Revenge bit
Holy shit that's so boring. Like repetitive phrases that don't even have the rhythmic variation to feel like a hook, generic scale runs, the usual shreddy crap, etc. Not all that great. Guitarists that just wank on like that have ruined music.

>Watermelon
This shit sounds like smooth jazz, but is given the jazz fusion excuse because of his backing arrangement.

Also I saw what you tried to do there, claiming I think a certain way because someone like Lester Bangs said it. Don't put words in my mouth shitty Zappa fan, Bangs hated metal but I love it, I don't dick ride his opinions or anyone else's.

Mothers > Zappa

Great ad hominem attack friend. Those really made your points valid.
>I shouldn't have explain the idea of having limited music vocabulary over and over again.
So, where do you get off dismissing someone's music without having even the basic knowledge of music theory? Can you even form coherent sentences without ad hominem attacks and ''like(s)' '? I'd really like to know who's not boring to you (given that Zappa somehow is).

Attacks*

That's great, except it's not ad hominem because I have already hit the point. Ad hominem is using the attack as the argument. As usual Zappa fans are next level retarded (note how this isn't an ad hominem because I already explained in the previous two sentences.)

>Don't put words in my mouth shitty Zappa fan
I'm done here.

I called you out for making a false claim about me that could not have possibly been reached through the words in my posts. Yeah I shit talked you after that, too cuz Zappa fans tend to be that worthless, but still, the ad hom isn't an ad hom because it's not part of the argument itself.