Why do other composers even try?

Why do other composers even try?

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Bach>all

however
Beethoven's 9th symphony was worth an effort

>exclusive use of tonal scales
Bach didn't even try.

>some freshman posting Schoenberg every thread
Pro-tip for later years: atonal music is shit

Bach used the first 12 tone row.
Schoenberg was 300 years behind the ball

You accidentally posted Bach instead of Vivaldi. Simple mistake though don't sweat it

>in 50 years the postman will whistle my music guys haha i swear this is the future of music 2deep4u misunderstood gneius haha the future will get me haha i'll be really popular some day when they understand my denius

>atonal
>music

That's not his fault. We're the ones who failed him.

#IStandWithSchoenberg

I don't even think the issue is with atonal music, he was just a shit composer.

>exclusive use of the chromatic scale
try harder

topkek, so some people actually think such a primitive composer as vivadi is the greatest?
I guess I would think so too if I only listened to "BEST TOP 10 CLASSICAL MUSIC FOR RELAXATION AND STUDYING" on youtube

b8

b9

you sank my battleship

your taste in music looks pretty badass

i luv u gais

c:

4chins is gr8

Beethoven?
tchaikovsky?
Vivaldi?
Brahms?
Wagner?
[spoiler]you listened to one composer and think you're smart fuck you[spoiler]

>tchaikovsky?
pop music

Literally not even the best Bach.

Bach sure is great, but only Beethoven showed the world that absolute music can carry deepest emotions

Beethoven's emotion in music more superficial, Bach's is nuanced.

I find Bach grating to listen to sometimes, whereas I could listen to Beethoven all day. That isn't to say that the former isn't the absolutely grand daddy of fucking music though.

Not superficial, not at all. It's more personal, more intimate. Beethoven was more egotistical, but that's not a bad thing when you're as brilliant as he is, and when you're dealing with music that was written 200 years ago.

>le Bach was the master of complexity meme

reminder that Bach by today's standards is not much more complex/innovative than a top-tier Beatles or Brian Wilson song.

Bach being the GOAT is literally a meme by people who have never studied music composition in college.

Schoenberg and Stockhausen are/were the true masters.

>you need to study music theory to appreciate music
>you need to study cinematography to appreciate movies
>you need to study drawing to appreciate paintings
>you need to study food science to appreciate food
Go away retard.

>Stockhausen
>master
Avant-teen detected.

>never studied music composition in college
>in college
I actually don't know what you are going for

Schoenberg came up with a system and stuck with it. Not that much different than what Bach was doing.

>Stockhausen

quote me where I said that

I just said that on a *technical* level, Bach is not as impressive as people make him out to be. that doesn't mean you can't appreciate him/other music. I never said that.

He was the most innovative composer of his time. You have to be completely historically and musically illiterate to deny that.

How come other composers of his time sounded so similar, then? Where did he innovate?

that's true but that's why I said by TODAY'S standards he is not as amazing (compositionally) as people claim he is.

but yes he was innovative for his time, I will give you that. However, that time was like 500 years ago.

>cherrypicking

also that's brilliant honestly

>other composers of his time sounded so similar
Like?

If you think other composers of the baroque period sound the same as Bach, you have proven you have literally no ears.

>by TODAY'S standards he is not as amazing (compositionally)
His works are a reference for Classical composition. The emergence of other composers with different styles, does not in any way change their quality.

As someone has pointed out your relentless Stockhausen/Schoenberg posting coupled with inane babbling gives away a teenager who discovered modern composers last Thursday.

I'm 22 and I've been listening to classical music for years.

What the fuck is wrong with Stockhausen and Schoenberg?

literally classical pop artist
fuck off poptimist

Holy fuck the avant-teen meme was real the whole time

Like this e.g.

youtube.com/watch?v=8lOPAy8wq04

youtube.com/watch?v=OuTQWyS5pAc

Please explain the differences.

Nothing wrong with them per se, but your imblyign pics coupled with pitiful attempts to critique Bach with retarded argumentation are rather cringeworthy. If you are actually 22 and not just a cat pretending to be human, consider growing the fuck up.

unrelated question, could someone(me) use the entire tableture to jesu meine freude in a song without getting in legal or paranormal trouble?

>he doesn't want to hold musical discussions with the ghost of Bach

it'd be fucking spooky dude, have you never seen a ghost?

Care to explain what are you talking about? What legal/paranormal trouble?

like, if I played it note for note on a synthesiser for spooky dungeon music, would I get haunted and or arrested for theft?

did he actually think this or are you just memeing?

>he doesn't know I'm a ghost

22 is teen now? Wtf?

I'm not saying Bach is bad, in fact I love some of Bach's pieces, but I'm just saying he is overrated.

meant to quote

Please tell me what is this meme. Sounds interesting.

all pleb-tier composers

Stauckhausen was a hippy fuck who made terrible music and was a complete eccentric, as can be seen in and his Licht cycle. Not to bring up other dumb shit like in Stimmung where he asked performers to sit in very specific cushions in a circle.

Nothing wrong with Schoenberg though.

I don't know, honestly. When I realize how fast he worked, how much knowledge he posessed, that he could practically improvise whole complex pieces in a single take... I don't know why am I even thinking that I could ever be a composer at 22, without any finished works and just a passable knowledge of theory. Life is slipping by and it's probably too late. /rant

what meme, I really just don't want to be haunted by any ghosts but I think the song could be really great in dungeon synth. I just need to know if I should take any preventative measures towards any hauntings that may occur

Biological age doesn't necessarily correspond to psychological maturity. As long as you keep using absolutely pointless buzzwords like "overrated" you will be a teenager. As long as you keep applying them to one of the absolute greatest composers of all time you will be a retarded teenager.

Very well, you don't have to give away your meme secret, but I will find it.

>Stauckhausen was a hippy fuck who made terrible music

kys

>as can be seen in and his Licht cycle. Not to bring up other dumb shit like in Stimmung where he asked performers to sit in very specific cushions in a circle.

hurr a few questionable examples are supposed to discredit him when he has made dozens upon dozens of compositions amirite

also Licht was brilliant shut the fuck up

>overrated is a buzzword
>Bach is GOAT

I think you are the teenager here

>Brahms among actually good composers
Come back when you're less pleb.

>Licht was brilliant
Nothing can cure your bad taste user.
Maybe one day you'll see how great Bach is.
youtube.com/watch?v=OzerJmdStq8

its not a meme, please tell me if I need to worry about any spooky consequences of using the music

You've been listening to classical for years, so at 22 I'm extrapolating that you began as an avant-teen and never saw any reason to abandon that mentality. And now you're trying to hide behind the "I never said he was bad" excuse, but you were
>implying
it very strongly in your original post, in the kind of contrarian dismissive language that's typically used by people on this board when they want to call things bad. Language befitting of that "avant-teen" label.

>I think you are the teenager here
>"no u"
Brilliant argumentation. Seriously either start growing up or kys already.

You WILL have spooky consequences if you don't give me the source of your meme RIGHT NOW.

The Well-Tempered Clavier is literally just a training guide for people who are learning to play piano. Bach didn't even intend for it to be artistic, he was just writing something that would sell. that's a horrible example.

and once again there are some Bach pieces I love. I love Art Of Fugue and Mass In B Minor for example. at no point ITT have I said that Bach was bad or I didn't like him. learn to fucking read.

I promise its not a meme, I'm just worried, I don't like ghosts very much. They're really scary

Stockhausen is shite who made ridiculous compositions in his later life and mediocre. Why listen to Klavierstucke XI when you have Boulez's 2nd sonata?
>doesn't like the WTC, ignoring that it has some of his most original and beautiful music, for being an exercise
>like the AoF, also an exercise
Nice meme opinion

>doesn't intend for the piece to be artistic
>it becomes one of the most well-known and loved
>somehow it's a horrible example

I'll make some phone calls and send them to your house. The best way to get rid of a fear is to embrace it. Don't go to sleep tonight.

youtube.com/watch?v=7ykQFrL0X74
>Stockhausen apologists will defend this

what the fuck user, I'm burning sage now, thanks a lot. I just wanted to make dungeon synth with jesu meine freude

Beethoven was a more complex composer, if you believe complexity means anything, which is silly.

>people ITT taking a Stockhausen imbecile seriously

Stockhausen didn't care what critics thought. He lost his hold of the "establishment" shortly after he announced that he was born on the star sirius. The reason he uses helicopters is to explore the possibilities of music in space, because most music is about time but not space. So the movements and positions of the helicopters are all totally related to the musical content.

google "sound art" and educate yourself

>Stockhausen didn't care what critics thought
He also didn't care his music was bad and ridiculous either.

Art is visceral. Lengthy pseudo-intellectual explanations are indicative of hacks and delusional cretins.

Stockhausen wasn't trying to make good music in the conventional sense. He was trying to push the boundaries of sound and composition in general.

once again google sound art

>Stockhausen wasn't trying to make good music
/thread

>He was trying to push the boundaries of sound and composition in general.
And he did it in a dumb, impractical way that sounded bad.
You do not need to put your performers in helicopters to do what he was trying to do.

>pseudo-intellectual
it's not pseudo-intellectual, it's merely intellectual, even a moron can comprehend what he's saying

>fugal elements
youtube.com/watch?v=pYIBkC-pqzQ
>dissonance
youtube.com/watch?v=MAD6lUivz10
youtube.com/watch?v=xwfMSJiSFl0
>alternation of fast and slow motifs
youtube.com/watch?v=khcUhxwUc18
>clashing styles of the BC and soloist
youtube.com/watch?v=GUDnY4J8wtA
>syncopation
youtube.com/watch?v=UgfJTMCfHQc
>creative manipulations of boring motifs
youtube.com/watch?v=oPFHEim8ZcA
UNDERRATE

>hurr muh helicopters

stop cherrypicking and go read about the actual genius/innovative things he did.

nice post 10/10
would tickle your boipucci

>genius/innovative things he did
Such as?

A moron would actually believe them to be sound. Anyone with a shred of intelligence can see it for idiotic New Age-esque pseudo-scientific babble that it is.

WHAT STOCKHAUSEN DID FOR ELECTRONIC MUSIC:
- Wrote banal chamber pieces featuring electronic instruments vaguely exploring acoustic space
- Did some really crappy generative pieces
- Made a slightly more scientific version of Messiaen's shit.

PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY MATTERED:
>Pierre Schaeffer
The grandfather of electronic music. Pioneered the current dominant thought of thinking of sound objects (Treatise on Musical Objects)
>John Chowning
FM SYNTHESIS.
>Miller Puckette
Created extremely user friendly and commercially viable software.
>Jean-Claude Risset
Waveshaping, FM, invaluable in terms of psychoacoustic research.
>Iannis Xenakis
GRANULAR SYNTHESIS, wrote proper, scientific process pieces.
>Lasse Thoresen
Codified Schaeffers thought into an easily communicateable system for education and realization of electro-acoustic scores.
>Denis Smalley
Early digital synthesis, elaborated on Schaeffer.
>Michel Gerzon
Ambisonics.

>pseudo-scientific
>art
here we go again

>go read you pleb (c)

youtube.com/watch?v=khcUhxwUc18

Hey, did I just hear this at the beginning?:

youtube.com/watch?v=uGQq3HcOB0Y

>go find my evidence for me
"no"

>Miller Cuckette
>Worth literally any recognition

>I don't have any arguments so let me post something vague irrelevant and contrarian

the regret will only grow, start making music now. It doesn't have to be perfect, just do anything. Your style will evolve while working, not while thinking about what you could do.
Don't trust the paper, only write down what's already done in your head

OK, then answer these plain questions. Can art be pseudo-scientific? What are relations between art and science?

>basic composition techniques
>better than Bach

Pseudo-scientific was relating to the explanation and motivation behind his work like "explore the possibilities of music in space, because most music is about time but not space". How the fuck do you even dare discussing this shit if you can't comprehend a simple sentence properly?

>reminder that Bach by today's standards is not much more complex/innovative than a top-tier Beatles or Brian Wilson song.

That's not even approaching a true statement

>explore the possibilities of music in space, because most music is about time but not space
This is a correct intellectual inquiry, since orchestras are always static when it comes to space, have you ever seen performers whose location in space is a part of a piece they're playing? What exactly is pseudo-scientific here, can you demonstrate us?

Thanks, man. Will do.