Was he Mary Sue?

Was he Mary Sue?

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Considering he was beaten, tortured, and captured into slavery, no.

This, he's actually been through a lot of shit and barely holds on.

Being a heroic protagonist doesn't make you a mary sue, moron.

>Considering he was beaten

He never lost a duel actually. Everything about him was perfect:
Perfect commander
Perfect soldier
Perfect gladiator
Loved by his army
Loved by emperor who treats him like son and succesor
Loved by emperor daughter who wanted his dick
Loved by gladiators
Loved by people of Rome

No.

>mary-sue

Go back to your nickelodeon shows, dear.

Hated by Commodus

He was a console of rome

So you missed the section when, after he's found his family dead, he's being hauled in captivity, beaten, and is knocked out. Try watching the movie, it's pretty good.

Bad things can happen to Mary Sues, this is all moot. He maintained his dignity and showed everyone up all along the way.

>Hated by the bad guy
You guys don't have any idea what Mary Sue means

That falls under tragic past.

>past
It happend after he was introduced

I don't think Commodus actually one-upped him once in the movie.

He was captured after being half dead, he was never beaten by anyone in fight.

>Bad shit happening to you at the beginning and Mary Sueing your way out of it
K

The movie would be pretty short if he lost a duel.

So don't say he was beaten

>
>>Considering he was beaten
>He never lost a duel actually. Everything about him was perfect:
>Perfect commander
>Perfect soldier
>Perfect gladiator
Earned through years of warfare in the Roman army. Many talented commanders existed in real life.

>Loved by his army
Good commander, knows his army, wins battles, not of royalty, sounds like someone that would be respected greatly

>Loved by emperor who treats him like son and succesor
His son was a piece of shit, and he had to interact with the emporer a lot so he got to know him. He was liked by the troops, brought fame to Rome, and was probably well know greatly. A former US military commander became a US president.

>Loved by emperor daughter who wanted his dick
As did every other woman in Rome.

>Loved by gladiators
He did save their fucking lives and didn't treat them like shit.

>Loved by people of Rome
Because he was a military commander who was loved by his troops, who brought fame to Rome through battle.

Sent from my iPhone

>tragic past

Narrative isn't your strong

>perfect in every way

So Mary Sue

He was only a good at military and was a nice dude, and it was all within reason. It's not like he was an amazing commander and gladiator while being a blacksmith his entire life.

Sounds like a Mary Sue

Sounds like you don't know what a Mary Sue is.

He was dumb as fuck and highly emotional, he was only good at combat.

Jesus H Christ, have you SEEN the goddamn movie? Did you notice the gash in his shoulder he keeps treating? Did you black out the scene where he's put in slavery? Fuckin' hell, you goddamn autistic retard.

I thought a Mary Sue was someone who was instantly amazing at everything

Like Rey, who instantly could fly the Millenium Falcon better than Han Solo, could use the force immediately even when she barely knew about it, beat a high level Sith Lord in lightsaber combat, etc

Checked

>It's not like he was an amazing commander and gladiator

He was, on top of that next ceasar and father of royal boy.

It makes sense that he would be good at fighting, which is most of the conflict he faces.

>not knowing what a mary sue is
Shouldn't you be dyeing your hair blue?

He got wound after beating centurion on horse you cretin. He was found unconcious later with that wound, nobody beats him. Apparently it looks like you never seen movie.

No, he was not a blacksmith. Did you even see the movie?

yeah, instead of that nominated for king of strongest empire in the world, but that don't count.

But he earned

You can have well-earned/explained talents and not be a Mary Sue. A Mary Sue has skills that are not well explained (sometimes borderline magic powers, inconsistent with the rest of the established world.)

All his skills are entirely in keeping with him being an experienced member of the Roman Legion.

Well he did end up dying at the end.

Can you still be both a mary sue and die at the end of your story?

>But he earned
it

Yes. He also outsmarted Commodus in every challenge, like the one against Tigris of Gaul.
There isn't one single scene where Maximus shows a flaw or makes a mistake that ends up costing him a lot. By definition, that makes him a Mary Sue.

yes, his death was a good thing that he wanted.

This: You can be GOOD at shit in a story. You can even be good at A LOT of shit in a story. It just has to MAKE SOME FUCKING SENSE. All of his skills made sense. They were consistent with the era and his role within it. It MAKES SENSE that a Roman commander with skill and experience would be on the shortlist to become the next Emperor. That's how it worked during that period of Rome.

/thread

Not true. But they wanted to make him a Mary Sue in the sequel he literally fights gods.

That's how it worked, faggot. Learn your fucking history. Up until Aurelius the last 4 emperors had chosen their successors then adopted them as sons. That was the system; find an absurdly capable man you WISHED was your son, make him your son, let him rule. Not only was it the system, it was an ABSURDLY GOOD system.

he was the Donald Trump of ancient Rome.

he was a way for the people to express their hatred for the Emperor.

This

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerva–Antonine_dynasty
Education for you, so you stop looking like an idiot

His experiences don't even condone skill as a gladiator, let alone his political and romantic maneuverings. It's entirely possible he was just talented at those things too -- some people are just good at a lot of things -- but this isn't a good idea for film. When he was leaving even the villain looking like a moron in his own context, there was little to no tension.

Yes, especially deaths like his.

You've used a lot of words in a lot of places that make no sense.

>His experiences don't even condone skill as a gladiator
Being an elite soldier is as experienced as you'd need

His near religious death was one of the most Sueish things about the movie.

Wrong. They're almost completely different skills except for the fact that you're hitting someone a sword.

>except for the fact that you're hitting someone a sword
So literally the thing he needed to do?

>His experiences don't even condone skill as a gladiator
How the fuck do you figure?

>except for the fact that you're hitting someone a sword.
Well that IS kind of the core element, isn't it?
>Hitting someone else with a sword
>Not getting hit with a sword
>???

So what, exactly, does one need to learn to be a good Gladiator that is not learned from being a soldier?

>56 posts
>0 images
This feels wrong somehow...

...

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED

Shit. What should I watch right now? This or Weekend at Bernies. I feel like I should go WaB because I saw a Times article published today called Weakend at Bernie's. But that was already after I started watching the movie. WTF.

The simulation is alive, guys. The simulation is alive.

The term is Gary Stu, and no.

Well sure. I mean, there's plenty of shit that one has to learn to be a military commander that aren't really a part of being a gladiator. Fighting in formation, leading people in combat and so forth. However, the film COVERS this. It was depicted as very UNUSUAL for a gladiator to know how to do these things.

However, there's nothing about being a gladiator that isn't learned by being a soldier except perhaps the showmanship aspect. Gladiators would learn how to take a dive and pretend to be dead, for example, to prevent actually getting killed. Is that what you are talking about?

Not a mary sue since he's clearly not a conduit for a shitty self-insert

The film represents moral virtue versus political dignity
In Roman times, philosophers like Cicero saw the worth of human life in their dignity and it was the only thing that merited respect
Dignity was obtained through political/military/administrative achievements.
This applies to Maximus at the start of the film and Commodus the entire way through

However, inspired by Chritianity, the stoics and Aquinas, a new idea of dignity as formed which was born out of moral virtue. Here, to have dignity, you had to to live a virtuous life and respect yourself. In this line of thought, anyone could have dignity by being a good person
This is Maximus after he falls from grace.
He shows courage, honour, respect, humbleness, the list goes on
This is contrasted with Commodus who is selfish, lacks respect for anyone else and is ignorant

The film is the clash of these ideals, rejecting the old way of looking at dignity and respect and showing us that the later way of looking at it is superior

Maximus' fighting skills are irrelevant to the story. His gladiatorial wins serve as a metaphor against Commodus' political loses
Because, as a slave, gladiatorial combat is the only method he has to show his character

Sorry the film was too deep for you

>gladiator
>emperor

Yeah, you are retard.

>implying anyone on Sup Forums knows anything about dignity or Aquinas
>dude, the main character never loses a duel LOL XD

Wrong

Wow great argument fagtron you sure convinced me with those hot opinions

What did he achieve in the grand scheme of things?

Still better than yours

He's just mad that you made him look like an idiot.

Pretty much everything went wrong despite his planning. Wanted to escape with his family and warn the Republic? Nope, gets nearly killed, his family suffered brutal deaths, wife raped then killed, son crucified, and then he's taken into slavery. Now he has to fight to the death as a gladiator with no support outside his fellow gladiators, and knowing that the odds are completely against him . When he tries to attempt a coup once more, he's discovered, stabbed before his final fight, and despite winning the battling and earning the freedom of the gladiators, he still dies and never gets to enjoy his freedom.