Coltrane is OBJECTIVELY better than davis

coltrane is OBJECTIVELY better than davis.

prove me right

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Most people who listen to/appreciate jazz on the merit of how wide a variety of vocabulary of technique/delivery is used to portray emotion and progression all admit Coltrane to be the best.

Miles literally bought Coltrane his soprano sax.
Soprano sax is best sax, t. Kenny G and Captain Beefheart.
QED

the fact you chose to post that particular cover shows you're just a poser

It's his best album though. This is the part where you'll tell me to listen to more than two jazz albums, but that's where I say listen to more than 20 jazz albums.

its the first album on my coltrane list, i posted the cover from my folder. now fuck off you damn armchair detective

Are you really saying A Love Supreme is better than Giant Steps or Olé?

yes.

/thread

>slash threading your own post with such a stupid point
I understand slash threading ones own post, but with such a stupid point? Come on dude, you know better.

Giant Steps is pretty repetitive though in its themes and progressions. Yeah you can say the first part of ALS is similar, but Coltrane's playing gets more varied so it doesn't feel as samey.

Olé has a fantastic lineup, but it kinda falters because they were still new to messing with non-jazzy ideas. Still better than almost a lot of other music that exists, but not the level of insanity we normally see from the members of the lineup.

There, proved wrong. You're welcome.

jesus he looks like a fucking joke.
also that album is shit.

delet this

He's technically more talented, but I enjoy Miles fusion stuff more.

Why is he holding a fake gun?

That's not even his best album (Olatunji)

Mm. Scuse me. You're forgetting A very important factor...

....In that Herbie is the ACTUAL king of Jazz.

Aren't you all forgetting someone?

Davis was the stronger composer by a long shot. Coltrane's compositions generally tended to work as simple vehicles for the style of harmony he was interested in at the moment. Most of his melodies were kinda lack luster except Naima.

His main compositional innovations were mostly expanding upon modal styles of playing which he did not invent and free jazz something else he didn't invent. His creation of the Coltrane chord progressions are impressive, but ultimately not very useful musically except as an etude, which is what they were written for.

Miles started the following movements of jazz: Cool, Modal, 3rd Stream and Fusion. His 2nd quartet also developed a unique style of blurring the bar lines and free changing meters, which is arguably a genre unto it's self.

Miles's tunes are almost all standards and have strong melodic and harmonic cores. They're durable and work in nearly any style of jazz/improvised music.

I prefer Trane, but one of them had a more impressive career (mostly because Coltrane died so young).

you had one task

>Davis was a stronger composer
This really didn't make a big difference till Bitches Brew, stuff before that had very little to do with actual composition.

>Most of his melodies were kinda lack luster except Naima.
Would the melodies not be the improvisations coming from Coltrane or whoever's soloing and not "the main theme" or w/e being played by a bass? And not to mention that Giant Steps has a pretty cool rhythmic theme to it.

>Miles started Third Stream
>Miles started Cool Jazz
Depending on your definition, it's either Gershwin or Duke Ellington that did Third Stream. Not to mention even Mingus did third stream a couple years before Davis tried his hand at it.

As for Cool Jazz, Lester Young started the movement, being the prime influence for most of the guys that chose to do cool jazz.

>Miles' tunes are almost all standards
Dude's got quite a few, but they are far from the most popular, and I am pretty sure guys like Duke and Monk have far more either way.

>and work in nearly any style of jazz/improvised music
Quite a few of them are modal standards though. Being modal standards they don't work with many other forms of jazz.

>one of them had a more impressive career
See I don't know. Yeah Coltrane died early, but the variety in actual jazz technique and how to use it that he introduced, along with his weird arrangement stuff he did with stuff like Africa/Brass, and the wide variety of approaches at free jazz that he did (ex. hella melodies hitting you at the same time with Ascension/Interstellar Space or having a far more active rhythm section on Meditations/Olatunji, the abrasive technique used on Sun Ship, etc.) Dude messed around with the free jazz idea just as much as Davis did with the jazz fusion idea. It does help that Coltrane started messing with free jazz before Davis messed with fusion so he was able to get a good bit out of it before dying.

>Giant Steps or Olé

Those aren't even in his top ten best albums.

Fucking casuals.

okay
i'm finally going to do it

where does someone who has never listened to jazz start at

Start with Blue Train or Giant Steps for John Coltrane.

Kind of Blue. For there, make your way backwards or forwards, it's up to you.
As for Coltrane either Ballads or Blue Train

>20 albums
>not 20,000,000

Kenny G, Air Supply, Chuck Mangione

Relaxin' with the Miles Davis Quintet is a really really fun record. Or check out Night Dreamer by Wayne Shorter. I'm really into those two right now just because my jazz listening has been very non sequential in a chronological and stylistic sense. They're fucking solid though and very accessible.

thanks guys

don't meme on me brother

Miles was also one of the most lyrical players of all time. He certainly didn't have Coltrane's technique but he had a depth of feeling to his playing that easily rivaled Trane.

muh feeling

What are your fav artists/genres

Who says i'm meming? Kenny G holds the world record for playing the longest note ever recorded on a saxophone. That makes him superior then Gaytrane or Miles Dadjazz.

Maybe not the best, but better than Giant Steps or Olé.
IMO Resolution has one of the best melody/themes I've ever heard, I like a lot more than anything by Miles,

One of the best Sup Forums chart, jazzthreadguy is based.

shoegaze and cloud rap

so stuff like slowdive/whirr and bones

heh

Listen to ECM releases like Steve Kuhn - Ecstasy and Carla Bley's mid 70s shit. Very atmospheric jazz

youtube.com/watch?v=P3JtOsRLHG8

i like this a lot
thanks

Because he's gonna get you for smoking that Mary Jerony

Protip: you're a poseur.

>ITT: people disregarding his initial hardbop phase in front of his free avant-garde wankery to seem deep and intellectual

When they're not poseurs they're rockists. If you want to actually discuss jazz go to a VFW.

read davis as oasis.
i disagree.

>This really didn't make a big difference till Bitches Brew, stuff before that had very little to do with actual composition

I really disagree. He wrote or helped write a bunch of the Birth of the Cool charts. His tunes are fine examples of his writing. Bitches Brew actually has the least amount of writing on it. Most of it is improvisation on simple themes or moods strung together in the studio.

>Would the melodies not be the improvisations coming from Coltrane or whoever's soloing

Not really. When talking composition improvisation doesn't really count. I also hate Giant Step's melody one of the least favorite heads ever.

>Gershwin or Duke Ellington that did Third Stream.

This is kinda debatable, but I don't know enough to really get into the nitty gritty of dates.

Miles started cool with his Birth of the Cool session though. I've never really heard Prez be attributed as it's creator.

>Duke and Monk have far more either way.
Duke has a bunch to be sure and Monk's are cool, but some are underplayed imo. I wasn't really talking about who was the GOAT of tunes though, I was comparing Trane and Miles.

>Quite a few of them are modal standards though. Being modal standards they don't work with many other forms of jazz.

Really only Milestones, So What and Freddie. Modal jazz isn't really a genre despite how people on Sup Forums talk about it. It's a type of compositional structure. You can play So what as a Bossa, a funk tune, a big band tune, make it fusion or do most any other crazy thing to it and it sill works. That's not true for all tunes, even all great tunes, but it is true for a lot of Davis's stuff.

And to the last thing you said. Ya Coltrane did a lot for free jazz, but Miles did so much for new genres at the time. He was constantly on the edge of what's new. Not to mention his incredible ability as a talent scout and mentor for young blood. Also Trane didn't do the arranging on those albums it was Dolphy orchestrating Tyner's chords.

I love that entire album, but Resolution seems to be circling around the same ideas as Impressions. Acknowledgement to me is the best composed track on there. Also for those tracks it's really about the combination of the improvisation and the writing. The writing doesn't stand up to be anything super special on it's own.

I think the composed part of Resolution links more "out there" harmonic progressions with a much more tonal/traditionally perfect melody, while Impressions in its composition does the opposite, a much more dysfunctional and modal melody over a simpler predominantly dorian harmonic setting

>using greentext and repeating it in your reply
I mean greentexting is fine to prove a point, but to repeat it in your reply makes it pointless