What are the greatest mistakes that Marvel have made in their cinematic universe?

What are the greatest mistakes that Marvel have made in their cinematic universe?

Pic very related. Every time I think about how good it would have been, it actually cheapens almost all the other movies.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=N4yKFMrxDgg
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Flavours_Cornetto_trilogy
nypress.com/scott-pilgrim-vs-the-world
nyfcc.com/2013/08/the-worlds-end-reviewed-by-armond-white-for-cityarts/
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

It's his fault for taking ten years to make it

Iron man 3.

Bad movie.
Stuck between trying to be serious or being a comedy.
Turned Tonys archenemy into the butt of the movies joke.
Wastes Guy Pierce's talent on a shit villain.
Literally only made a shit load of money because it was riding on the coattails of the Avengers.

Shouldn't have taken 8 years to start working on it. And the changes they made worked a lot more for the movie than Wright's version

creating the whole fucking thing

it's all trash you pleb

The Marvel formula just isn't very filmmaker-friendly. Just do what you're told, collect your paycheck and fuck off. Say what you will about BvS but at least it was Zack Snyder's complete vision in all its horrible glory.

Just pretend iron man 3 is lethal weapon 6. It makes it a better.

MCU does alright because Kevin keeps the tight reins on the studio unlike WB.

>Actual Marvel comics fan
>Successfully maneuvers around stubborn Marvel execs to let him try MCU
>Idea seemed bananas crazy at a time because Marvel was nearly bankrupt and most popular characters were splitted between other studios
>Takes the risk and produces Iron Man
>Proceeds with creating $10 bln franchise from nothing
>Revolutionized the concept of movie franchise
>Runs things so efficiently that there were little to no scandals or production misfires for the project this large, namely all top stars are willing to continue filming
>No movie or script leaks like retards at Fox or Sony regularly do
>Of 13 movies he oversaw 13 are financially successful with 13 of those having positive critic reception
>Slowly returns Marvel characters to their home from other studios
>Excellent relations with Disney board as well as lots of Hollywood people
>Cucks Paramount
>Cucks Universal
>Picks up the fight with uncooperative CEO when the time comes
>Wins the fight and becomes co-CEO himself
>Cucks Sony into Spider-Man deal
>Humiliates WB/DC at capebowl of 2016
>MCU steamroller is going as strong as ever
>Starts war with co-CEO over Marvel TV
>Starts it just at the moment when Civil War is breaking its billion while TV ratings are declining - a move that will undoubtedly make him look good and co-CEO bad
>Looks like he is going to win this too
>This is the man who made Iron Man and Captain America larger cultural icons than Batman and Superman
>This is the man who produced a comic book movie about Rocket Racoon, a movie that was more profitable and critically successful than a movie featuring Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman

You beat me to my own post. Totally agree

I guess that's what I definitely prefer about DC movies, they have a distinct tone and feel based on who is creating them, for better or worse. Marvel just gets stale because it's all the same.

Compromising so heavily with Thor. magic is advanced science and trying to "ground" it with all the Earth and humans shit.
Thor should have been Marvels LOTR series with Thor 3 earning well over 1 billion just like their other trilogies not the 700m it would be lucky to get at this point.

>Runs things so efficiently that there were little to no scandals or production misfires for the project this large, namely all top stars are willing to continue filming
That actually is pretty impressive and i never thought about it.

Iron man 3 is 100% a Shane Black movie. How did that work out?

That's also why the movies are such boring cliche shit.

Feigi gets way too involved.

Whilst I agree, I wonder what Thor Three will be like with Taika Waititi at the helm of it. Whilst TW is by no means as distinctive as Edgar Wright, he still makes movies that have a very personal visual style and tone.

Marvel actually intervened a lot as usual. Black wanted the main villain to be female for example. It's still the best Marvel movie by far.

trying to explain how Ant-man's suit gives him powers. makes everything that happens surrounding him make zero fucking sense.

I liked Iron Man 3. It has some problems but it's still a lot more watchable than most Marvel shit imo. I've always liked Shane Black's style though so I'm probably pretty biased.

On the contrary,he prevents movies from turning into chaotic artsy Snydershit

BASED KEVIN

>>This is the man who produced a comic book movie about Rocket Racoon, a movie that was more profitable and critically successful than a movie featuring Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman

>distinct tone and feeling

So does a root-canal. Distinction for the sake of distinction is edgy emo high-schooler garbage.

i think the only problem is announcing so many movies so far in advance. we don't need to know that they're doing a black panther movie four years from now. let's see black panther as a supporting character first and then tell us he's getting a solo film. and setting up so many sequels make the current movies seem pointless, because obviously the main characters aren't in any real danger now, because we already know they'll be in avengers part 4 in 2019 or whenever. each film has to stand on its own, not just as a puzzle piece in the greater marvel universe. this was the big problem with avengers 2, it felt like half the plot points were only there to set up later events.

>I guess that's what I definitely prefer about DC movies, they have a distinct tone and feel based on who is creating them
Yeah, but when we're talking about movies like Green Lantern, how much is that really worth? Yes, it has a distinct tone from Nolan's Batman movies. It's also much shittier.

I love how this pasta triggers DC friends

Phase two as a whole was a bit of blunder in my opinion.

> Iron Man 3
A big disappointment. Ruining the Mandarin, ridiculous jokes mixed with an overly serious tone, Pepper turning into a superhero, and the entire ending sequence.

> Winter Soldier
It's a good movie but it's consequences are completely ignored.

> Guardians of the Galaxy
It's a decently entertaining movie but it's really overrated. It's completely skippable if you're only wanting to watch MCU movie that matter.

> Thor 2
No one liked it and most people have forgotten that it exists.

> Ant-Man
Mediocre the movie.

> Age of Ultron
It completely ignores the events of the other movies and Joss Whedon filled it with completely unbearable quips. It felt like Sensitive Joss Whedon had a lot more control in this one, and the movie suffered for it.

I really like IM3.

Swings and roundabouts.

Arguably turning the MCU into a large group of extremely high budget TV episodes. The Phases are really just Seasons of TV.

That's why Avengers worked when AoU didn't. Instead of being a culmination of intertwined movies, it's just a part of it. Now we have Civil War, which is really just Avengers 3.

I'd much prefer and Ironman verse, a Captain America verse. etc.

Phase 2 was miles better than Phase 1. TWS is the best Marvel movie yet. You say the consequences are ignored, but how? There's no more SHIELD and Rogers found about Bucky, which heavily impact the MCU. I guess you can say the helicarrier showing up on AoU, but it's probably Whedon's fault as you said.

GotG is good and only "skippable" now. When Thor 3 or Infinity War pt. 1 comes around and Thanos is stealing the stone from Xandar and the Guardians meet the Avengers it will be more connected to the rest of the universe. And I liked Ant-Man and Iron Man 3 way more than Thor and Iron Man 2.

This line of thinking is why we never had a movie like the Avengers

>I'd much prefer and Ironman verse, a Captain America verse. etc.

This was how the old superhero movies worked. Its why Batman and Superman were never in the same movie. People legitimately thought that superheroes were best self-contained.

Than the Xmen challenged that. By showing that you can have more than one superhero in a movie working togetehr as a team. And X2 showed you can have continuity. And when Nick Fury turned up at the end of Iron Man, it hyped people.

Because you see, unlike movies, people always knew that, in the comics, Batman worked with Superman. Spiderman had hung out with the Avengers and the Xmen. Superhero stories could be bridged, they were just hampered by an old way of thinking.

Marvel made things You just have pleb taste

In a way Marvel has turned comic book movies into comic books. Now you need to have seen all the storylines to fully understand what's going on, and they introduce new characters and stories periodically to fund new big events. I don't like a lot of the Marvel movies but I give them credit for doing something a little different.

X men have ALWAYS been an ensemble though. Wolverine aside no one on the team can carry a movie solo. I mean who the fuck wants a cyclops movie?

>it's an user still believes Wright's Ant-Man would've been good, or that Wright himself is a good director episode
Why don't you just kill yourself user, if it's that painful to you?
Would do the world plenty of good.

>Ruining the Mandarin
youtube.com/watch?v=N4yKFMrxDgg

>Ruining the Mandarin
>MUH MANDARIN
>Pepper turning into a superhero
She didn't
>ridiculous jokes mixed with an overly serious tone
It's like you've never seen a Shane Black movie
>the entire ending sequence
What ending sequence?
The final fight or the one with Tony's voiceover?

You need to that his dick is craved by Amy Pascal

>those leaked emails

75% of Civil War is fucking boring.

Ant Man would have been freaking great with Wright at the helm. It is still better than a lot of Marvel movies (i.e., the first Cap, both Thors, Hulk, and every Iron Man that isn't the first one), but it could have been awesome.

You forgot:

>technological virus somehow turned people into lava monsters
>ending heavily implies that Iron Man will quit even though we know that is not fucking happening.

IM3
>Mandarin not having rings of power
>Mandarin being Camcorder Terrorist
>No chance at Fin Fang Foom

Just fuck my shit up

>ending heavily implies that Iron Man will quit
No it didn't.
The movie LITERALLY ends with Tony Stark stating that he is Iron Man.
The ending of Iron Man 3 was him letting go of his obsession of building a suit for every single little event his mind could think of.
The ending was Tony getting over his PTSD, until Whedon fucked that up so he could get his quipbot.

>>technological virus somehow turned people into lava monsters

Which is what happened in Extremis comic from which the modern Iron Man movies are adapted from.

The only difference - Tony never took the extremis procedure. Which was a big deal in the comics

>>Ant Man would have been freaking great with Wright at the helm.

He wanted it to be a self-contained movie. It would not have worked.

>the first Cap
Neah bruh. The First Avenger holds its own. Its pretty comfy.

Originally there was a plan to do a solo Magneto movie, much like with Wolverine. Also consider Deadpool held his own movie.

Yes the Xmena re ensemble, but elements of the Xmen can make their own movies. If Fox were more competent and did it the MCU way. We could have had Deadpool way earlier.

>The First Avenger holds its own. Its pretty comfy.

The First Avenger sucks dick after the war bonds scene. It essentially became a slapstick WW2 movie that tried to hide the fact that Nazis existed by using Hydra--probably the least intimidating villains of all time.

Thor one was okay. Hulk and Thor 2 were forgettable. Iron Man 3 was still entertaining besides certain plot points. The First Avenger was good in the first half and shit in the second. When the conflict is so ridiculous and watered down, how can one give a shit about what's happening on the screen? The only things that I cared about in the last 45 minutes were Bucky falling off the train (even though we all know he was going to get better) and Cap "sacrificing" himself for the greater good. That's it.

They don't ever use The Hulk except for The Avengers. I know the last two movies bomb but do something with him.

Universal still owns the rights to Hulk, he's on loan to Marvel.
And Universal doesn't want to do/won't allow Marvel to do a solo Hulk movie.

Hulk is a shitty character, desu.

Filmmakers are given a degree of control over their movies but ultimately Marvel rules supreme. If you play ball and are willing to bend over backwards to follow the creative vision of a dozen other people and let them guide you then it's a very effective and great experience. However if you have conviction in your work and want to stand by it or feel that Marvel's approach is wrong on something, then the entire process is a pretty awful. That's what led to a lot of issues with Iron Man 2, Thor 2, and Age of Ultron. Interestingly enough, Whedon didn't like the studio's approach to further Marvel-ize Guardians of the Galaxy and went to bat for Gunn with the studio to give him more control over the film and allow Gunn to inject more of his style into it, leading to one of Marvel's biggest surprise hits to date.

Because Cap was fighting Fascism.

The Red Skull may have been made into a weaker version of Hitler, but he was still a tinpot Fuhrer. A Fuhrer with laser weapons. Cap fought Nazis on two fronts -a s a patriotic symbol in the main war against the AXIS, and as an agent in the small offensive against HYDRA. Cap was needed on the HYDRA front, even though theyw ere watered down Nazis, because they ahd a more powerful arsenal than the Axis.

The Red SKull was not just a fascist, he was a fascist that truly embodied the type of elitism that defined the intellectual landscape of the era. Its why, even though Adolf was inadequate, people as great as Heidegger joined his side - they truly believed they were fighting for the superior side.

Its why Cap's fight against Hydra mattered.

>Its why Cap's fight against Hydra mattered.

I didn't claim that it wasn't important; I claimed that the movie didn't make it feel important, and I won't be convinced otherwise.

If you want to have your silly laser wielding villains with skulls for heads, fine. You gotta make them more intimidating to compensate. Winter Soldier shits all over the first Cap because its villains weren't laser gun shooting, mustache twerking bad guys; they were spies from the inside with a job to do.

>how dare the people spending a quarter billion have a say

That's what gets me about directors. They know what they're getting into with big budget flicks, then bitch about it.

Whedon is someone who has to be kept on a leash. He's worse than Snyder.

The Mandarin never would have made a legit good villain.

Remember that monologue about how fortune cookies are an American invention? Well it's also a metaphor for the Mandarin character himself.

>Winter Soldier shits all over the first Cap

That I will agree

>If you want to have your silly laser wielding villains with skulls for heads, fine.

You have to bear in mind this was SCHMIDT's plan.


>You gotta make them more intimidating to compensate.
Scmidt saw himself as intimidating with his superior technology, but of course

>its villains weren't laser gun shooting, mustache twerking bad guys; they were spies from the inside with a job to do.

This is why the Winter Soldier improved on The First Avenger. Not just because it ahd a betetr villain, but it actually made use of a villain of the previous movie - Zola.

See, Zola was the opposite of Schmidt. Whereas the Red Skull espoused Total War and Blitzkrieg tactics, Zola took advantage of Operation Paperclip and the mad scramble for German intelligentsia the US and the Soviets were vying for. By contributing to SHIELD, Zola was able to implant an ideology, a betetr one, within agents in SHIELD than he could under Schmidt.

Its why Zola was, arguably, the second best villain in the Cap series (the best is still Zemo). Zola was almost close to success, if you think about it.

Nice shittaste familam. You fuckers are why im necer gonna fucking see the real mandarin on the big screen. Fuck you!

I've read what he intended.

Didn't sound better at all.

It wouldn't have been good, he took too long and all his ideas were not in conflict too.

no one gives a shit about The Mandarin's rings

who is that unrecognizable nobody

The problem is a major shift in the way films are being produced. Creator rights are being stripped away by studios at an alarming rate and more power is being put into the hands of studio executives. Studios should absolutely have a say in the process but it should be more along the lines of collaboration and less like hiring directors and writers to be contract workers.

Because of Marvel's success with this approach it's making it harder for creator owned content to be produced in Hollywood. Studios want more and more control and therefore they're more interested in making movies to which they control the rights to so they can hire people out as contract workers and dictate the process. It's a very toxic mindset and is already making it very difficult for any but the best and biggest directors to make original films with a decent budget.

I don't think Whedon needs to be kept on a leash, he's definitely works well when given some boundaries but if he says a wall needs to be broken down then I say trust him on it. Whedon is definitely talented but even more importantly he's got a great eye for talent and knows how to groom them. There's a reason so many of the writers and producers on Buffy and Angel have gone on to such major projects.

>It's completely skippable if you're only wanting to watch MCU movie that matter.
>The only movie that explain what infinity stones are
>The only movie that shows people as powerful, even more powerful than pity Avengers
>Totally skippable

>That's why Avengers worked when AoU didn't. Instead of being a culmination of intertwined movies, it's just a part of it.
I thought Age of Ultron was great, but I will agree that it wasn't a culmination of the intertwined movies. However that's because Phase 2 was utterly directionless and the studio had no idea what they were doing or where they were going. None of the films really build up or lead to any sort of bigger story, they're all utterly disconnected.

But.... whedon left

I don't deny this. But I really think Marvel's bubble might burst after Thanos.

And even if it dpesn't hopefully - with Uiversal's monster CU failing, and with other people cinematic universe failing, people will realize not everyone has to copy Marvel and try to make a cinematic universe. Marvel can do their own thing. And we will still watch movies like District 9.

It's simple though: You don't want to be micromanaged by execs? Don't work on a superhero movie. We still have creative tour de forces like Ex Machina and Sicario getting made for a cheaper and cheaper budget

Phase Two has three good movies--Winter Soldier, Ant-Man, and Guardians of the Galaxy--while Phase One only has Iron Man and The Avengers. Every other movie in Phase one was either a commercial or instantly forgettable.

If we're talking about movies I would actually watch for their individual merit, Iron Man, Winter Soldier, the first Avengers movie, Ant-Man, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Civil War are the only ones that come to mind. All the other movies just do not stand up either execution-wise or as individual films.

>The problem is a major shift in the way films are being produced. Creator rights are being stripped away by studios at an alarming rate and more power is being put into the hands of studio executives.
And that's exactly why Marvel works as a Universe.

If studio executives were getting their hands into a standalone movie (Capeshit or not), it would be really bad, because you would ruin their creative vision they had. But when you had 12 movies to be connected, you need someone to keep people in check, because.
-You need continuity
-You need congruence
-Movies can't contradict each other, etc....

He literally would've ruined the movie.
I don't get what obsession you shitters have over this guy, he hasn't made anything good in his career

Winter Soldier heavily impacted the MCU. Firstly it led to the closure of shield and the formation of the Avengers as an independent body, which sets up both Ultron and later civil war. It establishes both Bucky and Falcon as well as adds further characterisation of Cap and black widow.
Its also a major setup to the second season agents of shield TV show, which deals with the direct aftermath of the collapse of shield.

Ant-Man was really good. Top tier Marvel, Wright's loss.

>It's completely skippable if you're only wanting to watch MCU movie that matter.

You are joking, right

The Solo Magneto movie became the intro for First Class , where he was hunting nazis.

That could have been a really interesting to watch an expanded version of what is by far the best part of the new xmen trilogy.

>Its why Cap's fight against Hydra mattered.

Edgar Wright
Fuck off, the Cornetto trilogy is better than every MCU movie.

>Literally only made a shit load of money because it was riding on the coattails of the Avengers.
i seriously doubt that, pretty sure Iron Man 4 will make a shitload of money too, people (esp. China) just loves this tech suit things

I can't hate on Shaun of the Dead or Hot Fuzz...but his Ant Man probably would have been terrible.

We'll never know for sure, but what we did get was pretty good for capeshit. I find it serviceable; not like a 'watch it once a month' movie but in a year I might be like "yeah...lets rewatch that Ant Man movie".

Ant-Man was fucking great.

Which is insane, because it's fucking Ant-Man and the lead is Paul Rudd. By rights that should have bombed.

Marvel is a fucking force of nature

I love that bar scene with the nazi's in Argentina.

>The Cornetto trilogy
Literally what? Fuck outta here with your meme trash

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Flavours_Cornetto_trilogy

He wanted Wasp to have a smaller (ie, pretty much no) presence in the movie and for there not to be that short sequence where Ant-Man jacks the device from Avengers HQ.

Literally every change I've heard about being made was for the better, so assuming that he didn't drastically improve the quality of the rest of the movie (a fairly safe bet) the overall result of him directing the movie he wanted to make would have been worse.

>mfw plebs say Edgar Wright has never made anything good
nypress.com/scott-pilgrim-vs-the-world
nyfcc.com/2013/08/the-worlds-end-reviewed-by-armond-white-for-cityarts/

Reminder Edgar Wright is indubitably talented and his speed and humor are authentic and irresistible. Armond White loves to be a contrarian but even he can't deny Wright's immense talent.

>scott pilgrim
>the worlds end
>good
Oh boy

Evangeline Lily better look at least as good as Ms Jupiter in her costume

>>implying what is being written in the comcis now will happen in the MCU.

What happens in 616 is so retarded, I stopped giving a shit

>The World's End
>bad
I bet you love the MCU movies.

IIRC they don't/didn't have the rights to make a solo movie

>wolverine movie
>wolverine does not have claws

Yeah, characters not having their iconic weapons is fucking bullshit.

Hulk was too hax for Civil War

He'll turn up in Ragnarok as SPACE HULK!!

>It's completely skippable if you're only wanting to watch MCU movie that matter.

This is film criticism in the millennial age

>he goes to Asgard to study their magi-science
>when Loki is revealed he stays to smash the puny god

I'm hype

>assuming that he didn't drastically improve the quality of the rest of the movie

Wright is amazing at directing humor, both the timing of the dialogue and visual humor like funny cuts or angles.

I bet you're some faggy yuropoor

Why would Sean Pegg movies be popular outside of Blighty

Of course I al

fiege is a good guy
ike perlmutter and the rest of marvel corporate was the real villains. he had to listen to them but bob iger did some changes in the company and ever since civil war he's basically his own boss now.

Where's John Travolta?

>The Red Skull may have been made into a weaker version of Hitler

He came closer to doing real damage to America than Hitler ever actually did...

Remember that Marvel's WWII is different from our WWII. In the Marvel universe what started as a war against the Axis became a war against HYDRA.

>Winter Soldier shits all over the first Cap because its villains weren't laser gun shooting, mustache twerking bad guys; they were spies from the inside with a job to do.

Different genres. First Avenger is a war movie so you fight war movie villains. Winter Soldier is a spy movie so you fight spy movie villains.

For my part I love both, but for different reasons. Personally I liked Red Skull because I'm kind of getting sick of pathos in villains; it was novel for awhile but it's long since worn out its welcome. I want villains to just be straight up EVIL again.

In Marvelverse, WW2 had Vision (at the time the Human Torch), Namor and Cap fighting Hitler and Red Skull

That shit was intense

>People know who Wolverine is, even normies
>a ton of comic book fans don't know who the Mandarin is because he's that niche

okay senpai

All the really good stuff from Ant-Man came from the other writers after Edgar left though.

Any chance of getting Fin Fang Foom in the movies?

I like it when media that was invented X many years ago remembers little continuity things.

Like, in Star Trek. The Eugenics Wars were a series of nuclear world wars between 1992 and 1996 that ultimately killed 30 million people. Obviously in the real world that never happened, but no Trek series has ever tried to retcon them out of existence, either. In fact several events have *confirmed* the Eugenics Wars as having still happened.

(Easiest way to make sure it still meshes up with certain VOY episodes taking place in the 1990s is to say that the Eugenics Wars were conflicts fought in Africa, Asia, and maybe South America, that didn't involve the USA directly).

the parts with that comedian mexican dude explaining the stories felt like edgar wright

Iron Man 2, Mickey Rourke looking like absolute shit.

Civil War, more like Office Scuffle, I loved the action-comedy but I didn't feel any stakes at all and basically Tony was fucking wrong about everything, even to blame for bringing down War Machine lol. Also hated the fucking bvs-mom shit at the end. But airport fight was awesome.

Most villains, how hard is it to build up a villain, and have an interesting final fight. Crossbones should have been given a bigger role.

Some retards dislike Ant-man? reconsider your fucking life and start slappin da bass.