Rappers and those involved in hiphop are not actually musicians, but are entertainers

Rappers and those involved in hiphop are not actually musicians, but are entertainers.

A musician is defined as someone who either plays a musical instrument, or is musically talented. A rapper does not play an instrument, and he is not musically talented.
The rapper does not use his voice as an instrument, as the voice is not an instrument (an instrument has many definitions, but each of them imply that an actual physical object or thing is being spoken of, eg it is manmade and something disctinct, not part of the body)
A rapper cannot be musically talented if he does not play an instrument then.

A rapper cannot be a poet, as the definition of a poet is one who writes beautifully, imaginatively, and his writing indicates elevated thoughts. A rapper does not write anything beautiful or that is indicative of elevated thoughts, however it cannot be denied they have imagination (they are original)

Hiphop, rap, r&b: are they cool to play at your house party or the club? Hell yeah it is.

However, if you are seeking to truly learn about music and understand it, you cannot call a cow a duck. How can someone who does not play an instrument, be referred to as a musician, the definition of which is one who plays a musical instrument? It simply isn't possible. Therefore, rappers and hiphop artists are entertainers, and damn good ones at that, but they still are not true musicians.

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hip hop is music though, so what else does it make them

Why do you care

>A rapper does not write anything beautiful or that is indicative of elevated thoughts
that depends on your own perception of beauty and 'elevated thoughts'

I just told you, they are entertainers. I am not denying that they are good at what they do, but they are not musicians. What instrument do they play?

They use their voice to make sounds. Some rappers' sounds sound good. Some rappers' sounds sound bad. What's the name of the skill that describes this gap?

Hint: music is defined as organized sound

Musical sound, any tone with characteristics such as controlled pitch and timbre. The sounds are produced by instruments in which the periodic vibrations can be controlled by the performer.

>The sounds are produced by instruments in which the periodic vibrations can be controlled by the performer
The voice is not an instrument

Musician is anyone who creates or manipulates sound to create a musical composition.
Rappers use their voices to create sounds appropiate to a specific instrumental.
They are poets too, because the words they use are picked specifically to evoke a certain ghetto aesthetic. That shit about beauty and elevated thoughts is retarded because you are negating almost every major poet from the XIX century onwards.

fuck off to reddit

Is Tony Bennett a musician?

Yes, but musicians do so using an instrument.
Yes, the rapper uses his voice to create rhythmical noise, but the voice is not an instrument.

They are not poets, because a "ghetto aesthetic" is an oxymoron. The definition of aesthetic is "concerned with beauty or the appreciation of beauty".

Is what a rapper writes concerned with beauty, or the appreciation of beauty?

but a musician is also anyone with musical talent.
using a voice to create rhythmical 'noise' is a musical talent.

beauty is subjective tho, and it is pretty factible to be fascinated by the gritty reality of the ghetto life.
decadentist poets are poets too, even if they write about things not considered beautiful.

Entertainer

Musical sound is defined as being produced by continuous and regular vibrations, as opposed to noise.
The rapper produces rhythmical noise which is highly entertaining, but cannot produce musical sound without the usage of an instrument (which the voice is not)

>>

>they took the bait

Have you not heard of Eyedea? he's definitely a poet. Aesop Rock aswell.

I just looked up the lyrics of Eyedea's Paradise, and Aesop Rock's None Shall Pass

I was genuinely surprised to be honest, but still, this goes back to the original point

I would agree that Eyedea and Aesop Rock are poets then, but is a poet a musician?
What instrument do they play?
The voice is not an instrument, as an instrument is a separate, distinct thing

I agree with the music part, but note that being a musician is worthless if you are not an artist.
The poetry part is archaic.

Are you suggesting Pavarotti isn't a musician?

At what point do we stop this "everything is subjective" bullshit, and finally acknowledge that not everything is art?

Do you remember this video, interior semiotics?
Is this art?
youtube.com/watch?v=8RM1oTw6fPg

Is Chris burden shooting himself in the arm art?

then no vocalist, rapper or otherwise, is a musician by that definition.
that's all well and good, but rappers, singers, musicians, etc. are all music artists, and that is honestly a more useful term than "musician" if you're going to be so anal about the definition.

That is unrelated to what I wrote.

It's true though. Everything is art, not because everything is subjective, but because there is no definition for art that cannot be subverted. As a consequence everything is art.
The question whether something is art or not is irrelevant though since it diverts the attention from the actual matter. Honestly I don't see why the question matters at all unless you have a problem with people making money of art. Just take it for what it is and discuss it.

>I just told you, they are entertainers. I am not denying that they are good at what they do, but they are not musicians.
Does it really bother you that much that people call rappers musicians? It seems like you're holding back something else.

>A musician is defined as someone who either plays a musical instrument, or is musically talented

Rappers are musically talented.

>A rapper cannot be a poet, as the definition of a poet is one who writes beautifully, imaginatively, and his writing indicates elevated thoughts. A rapper does not write anything beautiful or that is indicative of elevated thoughts, however it cannot be denied they have imagination (they are original)

Qwel & Kip Killagain - The New Wine
Illogic: Celestial Clockwork
Aesop Rock: Labor Days
Sadistik: The Balancing Act
Billy Woods: History Will Absolve Me
............etc

and Scroobius Pip and Kate Tempest were both spoken word poets before they got into rap, and used those very spoken word pieces and made them into rap songs.

you're not gonna successfully change anyone's opinion bud soz

Dessa is another good example.

Imo, there's moments in hiphop that do work, just as there are in metal, and those moments are better than anything, because they are contrite in their effort [as nifty moments, that is.]. #heynonnynonny

cant spell hip hop without faggot

>The voice is not an instrument
Singers aren't musicians?

>as if definitions are hard and unchanging

>A rapper does not write anything beautiful or that is indicative of elevated thoughts

how to tell someone that knows nothing about hip hop desu
I bet you heard a Lil Wayne song on the radio one time and that's it.

>Does it really bother you that much that people call rappers musicians?

Yes, imagine spending years training at something and working towards it, and this guy comes up and shouts "nigga" in a mic and is hailed as a musician

do you have a dictionary in your house, or an encyclopedia?

This is a troll post that is obviously trying to start a flamewar. I hope this fucker gets banned. Make Sup Forums great again.

>A musician is defined as someone who either plays a musical instrument

DROPPED
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>expressing concern about degenerate art
>"reddit"

Welcome to 2017 guys.

What about MPC? I'm pretty sure Eyedea could play like 5 instruments but you're right most of the new rappers can't even use a MIDI keyboard let alone use a 'real' instrument

the use of the word "degenerate" in respect to the artistic merit of a piece of music implies there is any integrity within a piece of "art" to begin with
i don't know what establishment lied to you but that's simply not the case
art exists to communicate thought and emotion and nothing more than that, and whether or not that specific thought or emotion is particularly nuanced is irrelevant
you can say the quality of something is lower because of this but there is literally no measure of "artisticness" like you autist shits seem to believe

...

...

no singer is a musician

ITT: we post poetry

Rob me a nigga
Rob me a, rob me a nigga
Cause the bills too high, this nigga right here too fly
Right now I just might rob me a nigga

The liquor got me lurking and looking for a lame nigga
To set up for my next lick
In the Chevy, about to roll up the stress, with a Tec
And what he got on his neck, got him a death wish
It's kinda funny cause he used to be my nigga tho
We was breaking bread, flipping bricks like a year ago
Shit can get into a nigga's head when his digits low
Make you wanna send one of your friends to his funeral
Maybe me and him was never friends in the first place
Don't mean a thing cause we share the same birthplace
Same city, same hood, but we down to kill each other for a dollar
Cause we want it in the worst way
Money talk and bullshit gon walk a marathon
And I ain't scared of getting killed cause I'm getting mine
And if they ever try to raid, I'm a hit the fuckin pigs with the K's
I ain't tryna do a lick of time
Spend all my last money, the bills too high
His jewelry, his whip game, the wheels too fly
I'm thinking about murder every time we cruise by
Heard he got like 84 elbows of blue fire
In the basement, muthafuckas still think basic
Thinkin' I'm a show up and erase 'em, but I ain't gonna chase 'em
I'm a be up in his crib waiting
"Bitch where the cash? I can taste it"
Put em on their face: what you know about kidnapping
And holding a nigga's whole family for ransom?

I have tears in my eyes right now, THIS is beautiful

>ghetto aesthetic" is an oxymoron. The definition of aesthetic is "concerned with beauty or the appreciation of beauty"

There's beauty in the struggle as well

we wuz makin music n shiet

many rappers are producers as well. is a producer not a musician?

>The voice is not an instrument

simply false