So Sup Forums ...I watched Inside Job... I watched the Big Short, I watched Money Monster... ALL these films talk about the absolutely appalling state of the economic system we all live under (in the 1st World at least)...and yet we just sit by and don't demand change. We just keep taking it up the ass, allowing politicians to keep spinning in the wind, allowing the "power" of the rich to maintain the status quo - allowing the greedy mega-rich and powerful to dodge accountability for their wrong doing because they can afford the legal representation that will throw up enough ambiguity and find enough loopholes so that justice is never served...
Don't get me wrong - I'm not calling for a radical revolution, the system isn't THAT broken, just some controls...some equity....
Force companies to treat employees as share holders? Prevent the fat cat's from earning more than 10x the lowest paid employee? Insist on transparency in the money markets and company accounts... and forbid "investements" that are actually gambles, rather make sure that "spare" money from investors is put to building and creating infrastructure for public benefit, rather than investment funds that actually do nothing....?
Why isn't there more hunger for a change to the better?
Nooo, fuck you commie and your socialism!!1111! Get redpilled, socialist scum!!1111!!
Jayden Wright
I know Reddit is.....well....I mean it's Reddit. I get comments deleted, I get banned, I get shadow banned..... But r/conspiracy and r/holofractal are the only subreddits I visit. Good, good stuff. Really.
Logan Cooper
Because a revolution wouldnt change anything. Its not worth trying. Our best hopes are that mars gets colonized ASAP and all the rich folks and stuff leave and set up a new goverment there, while plebians live in the now less crowded, and slightly less manipulated earth. (Not really, we are fucked.) Sent from my Iphone.
Hunter Foster
Gimme a hunnerd and I tells
Bentley Sanchez
...
Caleb Hall
OP here - yeah...I get it... and fair point, depressingly enough
I hear you! and yeah - communism is clearly not the answer!! - but REGULATED capitalism? No?
I'll take a look! Although I don;t think it's any great conspiracy - just people playing the system with impunity.
Yeah...but then -Elysseum styllee? I'd rather go for the Icelandic model...taxes on wealth (rather than income), transparency, and a strong intolerance to anything too complicated to undertand - science is hard...economics needn't be, it's a human creation - we could insist that it was simple?
Josiah Cooper
hunnerd - there, you gottit - now spill..
Yeah - I did think that after posting here
Also- here's a naked girl i saw on here, just to say thanks for responding!
Cooper Hernandez
1: We've been pacified and people like it. Those who do notice have no inclination to change because they're too busy enjoying their breads and circuses. 2: The System won't let you. You aren't the first person who thinks things should change and you won't be the last. But it takes an uncommon person to change The System without being subsumed by it. Newsflash: you aren't one of those persons.
Mason Young
You can never go against the goverment even the BLM that are a bunch of people cannot fuck up the goverment, you get whacked in an accident, etc. something like this
Daniel Ortiz
I was young once too. You'll get over it and join the successful or you'll fail miserably in life and join the bitter poor. Either way theres nothing you can do about it.
Landon Murphy
I agree, so you'd say it's a lack of leadership...
Which leads on to... ...So does this mean that "the System" is actually worse than just failures in economics, but rather it's a full on power struggle that will destroy anyone that threatens it? Hence..revolutions don't work, and progress is always doomed to fall short of meaningful change?
Julian Lopez
Weirdly - I'm not that young anymore, just surprised that things seem to be so crazy without anything being done - or is it that I am only just getting old enough (wise enough) to see through the veneer of bullshit now?
Is there really no way to change it? Social media seems pretty powerful, wouldn't there be an appetite for meaningful change?
Michael Williams
It's more than just a lack of leadership. People don't want to change the world. Most people are lazy. Even if you get their attention they'll cheer for you and then go home and watch TV. Even if you manage to gain real supporters who are behind you making the change they believe in the real uphill battle will begin: dealing with people who have played the system to the top and will do anything to stay there.
Jace Harris
Well let`s try to find a country that did a revolution and succeded with economics on this modern age. Yeah they are too powerful unless you probably get rid of them the system is rigged to be what they want you to be, and to earn what they want you to earn, we all know the U.S it is one of the biggest money launder in the world but nobody says anything because of the consequences that could bring. In this probably country and world you need connections to aspire to something good.
Gabriel Hernandez
Right wing propaganda has brainwashed people into thinking one day they'll be rich and then they'll be able to benefit from that corrupt rigged system. So you end up with people voting against their own interests and rabidly defending an economic system that is fucking them.
Also the religion of capitalism states all regulation is bad, so the fact that we have laws which prevent multinational oil corporations from putting lead in gasoline is viewed as blasphemy. The idea of any amount of common sense regulation is met with fanatical resistance from these zealots. How do you have a reasonable discussion with this type of fanatic? Modern capitalists display an ISIS level of fanaticism and zealotry.
Furthermore, those same people have pushed a warped morality that makes greed into a virtue -- employers fucking over their employees, and businesses fucking over their customers is a good thing if it means you can turn a profit in the process.
Perhaps worst of all is the right wing war on science, which has created a base of conservatives who are so ill-equipped to fact check anything that they can be duped en masse as long as the lie plays into their political quasi-religion.
Adam Robinson
If you want something changed, then go fucking change it.
Begging for someone else to step in and take control, pathetic.
Got scumbags that won't listen to reason? There's an app for that. It's called dox and a gun.
Ayden Stewart
>Why isn't there more hunger for a change to the better?
Because when the platform is:
>Force companies to treat employees as share holders. >Prevent the fat cat's from earning more than 10x the lowest paid employee.
Basically amounts to: "The government is so corrupt maybe if we just throw more power at it, it won't be so corrupt."
Think harder.
Carter Hall
Social media were created to occupy the young plebsters with meaningless shit like farming likes on facebook and searching for pokemons. Between sending snaps and watching HBO they are essentialy braindead. If they ever wake up, they are already wage slaves concerned only with making the ends meet and sending their little brats to school instead of looking at the full picture and thinking where did it all go so wrong for the society.
Chase Hernandez
>Prevent the fat cat's from earning more than 10x the lowest paid employee?
That's a pretty fucking radical revolution, considering janitors are sometimes paid ~10% what top employees (non-CEO) make.
Personally, I want my CEO paid well so that the position attracts a top talent. That one person is in charge of keeping everybody else employed for a long time. Pretty goddamn important if you ask me.
Samuel Watson
Hope you never get to work with hispanics, also asian people, they fuck you up with the employer been themselves employees, Niggers and white people are ok.
Luke Jones
>Right wing propaganda
Lol
>implying Wall Street, academia, unions, and almost all media isn't leftist
Kill yourself.
David Gonzalez
>How do you have a reasonable discussion with this type of fanatic? Well, isn't that just the pot calling the kettle black?
Andrew Collins
propaganda doesn't have flavors, it's all the same
all comes from the same place, our masters the money men
Parker Flores
The sad thing is that you Americans still think that you have any choice in your retarded 'democratic' system. Just because one supports feminists and the other hates gay people doesn't change the fact that for the last 30 years you've been getting cucked by the top 1% into the oblivion.
Connor Kelly
Wall street is very much conservative financially but they find the social bullshit that comes with the republicans to be silly, which is why they do what they do. If you pull the social bullshit out of political parties and they focus on actual policies that matter, things would be a lot different, but idiots like social issues cause they are easy to mindlessly argue and have a lot of emotion charged into them.
Jaxon Wright
> and forbid "investements" that are actually gambles
The problem is that insurance essentially amounts to gambling. From one perspective all these insane financial products amount to buying new and selling insurance against various outcomes. You can't get rid of it.
Nathan Rodriguez
It's because both parties want to expand government power in some directions, and reduce it in other directions.
It never actually gets reduced, so we just end up with an ever-expanding government; and It's idiots like you and OP who want the government to have even more power, y'all're the problem.
Anarcho-Capitalism is the correct answer.
Jordan Parker
Spot the jidf kike
>pic related, the cause of all world problems
Jack Watson
I see this - but even still... what about the Arab spring, what about the "velet revolution" in the Czech republic, what about the Icelandic revolution? All these things (ok..maybe not the Arab spring) seem to have been possible... creating sustainable change...or is the point that, it's not THAT bad, not affecting THAT many people badly enough? And like you say - wage slaves - raising kinds = zero imagination or appetite for risk...I'm kinda losing hope...Your plan is working!
It's a good point..I'm a britbong, but thinking about the US is scary (especially with to think about)...but smaller countries? With the UK voting to leave the EU I felt like that mght be the kind of message to the politicians that might spark change, but I'm wondering now if my first question was hopelessly naive.
Again - yeah, but what about the open-source software movement, bitcoins, groups of people that rally together to challenge loopholes...not everyone is brainwashed - you aren't for a start - nor is anyone who is posting in this thread as far as I can tell...so...do we just throw our arms up and give up? Feeling clever about how well we can argue that nothing will ever change?
Nice trips! Also - don't remember asking anyone to fix it - just wondering WHY...but thanks for the contrib..it was worth it for the trips!
This is interesting...so - even though the people in government (in the UK at least) change every few years, you think that they are incapable of introducing legislation that genuinely benefits people? I'm not so sure, I think stuff like the Human Rights act (as shit as it is in some ways) and Environmental acts have sought to improve things without there being a major economic (or power) gain for those individuals...It can't be ALL bad.
Luke Bailey
>post is anti greed >must be a jew
makes perfect sense
Matthew Edwards
Yeah - I've heard that argument before, along with the idea that high taxes will drive all the talent out of a country - but i don't think it washes - we all know CEOs that are thick as shit (I've met quite a few prior to getting the fuck out of the rat race), so it's not "talent" that they have, it's ambition, and thirst for power, that doesn't necessarily make them good leaders of companies.
Chase Wright
There was a big study done on the fortune 500 companies that showed there was no correlation between CEO pay and company performance, which makes sense. I mean, obviously they need to get paid for doing well, but the outlandish sums many get does not correlate to better performance.
Christian Williams
Yeah, let's lead to creating endless monopolies and the richest doing whatever the fuck they want without the society having any control over them. Starving your employees to death? No problem. No safety regulations? Great! Not having to pay any insurance for the people you employ? Sounds like a deal! Your product caused cancer in massive amounts of people or completely ruined the enviroment and it was easily preventable if someone actually had checked it first? What a beautiful world! I feel sorry that you are that delusional. Protip: Selling your WoW account won't amount to starting a great business and getting to eat the cake with the other greedlords. And even better tip is for you undereducated drone to learn some history and see how well lack of any regulations worked for society during the industrial revolution.
Charles Russell
Government is the only entity strong enough to resist corporate power. Anarcho capitalism is a de facto oligarchy. Government sucks but it is by far the lesser evil compared to corporations and oligarchs.
Asher Sanders
I guess that's true to a point, but again, IF (I know..big fucking if) financial instituations were properly regulated, then you could cash in premiums against unclaimed insurance policies (i.e. the insurance fund set up by all the participants wasn't depleted) and if the payouts exceed the fund, company reserves would be used, and replenished by a second tier insurance system (between banks) that would increase the follwoing year's premiums across the board...I'm no expert - but if I can come up with ideas like this then I'm sure there would be a way..if there were a will - I still think it's POSSIBLE, IF there was an appetite.
Alexander Gutierrez
If that's all it takes to dissuade you I see no hope for your ambitions, user.
Parker Perez
Hey you stupid faget Trump supporters.
He FLIP FLOPPED on immigration and deportation today.
What if we made a thing just like JIDF but for americans ( whole continent ) thing ? not even drunk or high something like all lives matter.
Bentley Murphy
>This is interesting...so - even though the people in government (in the UK at least) change every few years, you think that they are incapable of introducing legislation that genuinely benefits people?
The scope of this conversation is about Banking and Business regulations.
>I'm not so sure, I think stuff like the Human Rights act (as shit as it is in some ways) and Environmental acts have sought to improve things without there being a major economic (or power) gain for those individuals...It can't be ALL bad.
Environmental protections are all written by corporations anyway. They basically amount to "We'll let you pollute a little, because we enjoy all the jobs your business creates."
Carson Rodriguez
Humans are just smart animals. The majority of people are basically only slightly smarter than a chimpanzee that understands language.
Intelligence is not linear, it comes in the form of levels of awareness and the accuracy of your internal simulations of the world.
With those points in mind, most people are not aware of the corruption and instead rely on others for their awareness.
There is no true solution right now, greed will have to viewed as a mental illness akin to psychopathy.
>Humans can become more than animals but it won't happen till the age of abundance.
This is a start. The government doesn't work because it represents business interests when it's supposed to represent your interests. People do seem to be waking up to it though somewhat.
Adam Lopez
Still not clear when I said I wanted to expand government, or it's power, rather to REDUCE government, by increasing regulation...the reason we don't have to each have voltage regulators in our hoses is because it makes sense to REGULATE the voltage across the distrubtion grid, voluntarily - because it makes sense- yeah, you have to police it, but we're at a point where technology can assist in alot of that - so no expansion, or throwing more power to government, just application of regulation for the purpose of equity.
Evan Harris
>Government is the only entity strong enough to resist corporate power.
Isn't that what the argument is all about? That the Government cannot resist corporate power?
Thomas Parker
alt-right trump-sjw detected
>mfw
Nicholas Ross
The problem is even when we acknowledge the problem we can't seem to agree on what the problem is. Mostly this comes from absurd levels of stupidity or a lack of education.
Its important to remember that solving the problem relies on identifying the true source first. If you're kitchen sink is leaking, the only real solution is to plug the leak, any talk about buying more buckets to catch the water, or change the fixture or shut off the water are nothing but a waste of time.
An example of the stupidity I see from my perspective makes me want to slam my head through a brick wall. The last time I heard anyone in politics talking about increasing taxes on people who make more than $500K/yr and suddenly the MSM is filled with a bunch of 3rd gen buck tooth trailer park pot bellies screaming for their right to be free of government burden. The MSM knows not to get the 1% on the news belly aching about tax increases. So instead they find your typical American against tax increases and put them on wall to wall coverage. The average American who is CONVINCED that they will some day earn $500k/yr and don't want some hippie LIberal fucking up their future for them before it happens. Never mind the fact that they are the equivalent of 3rd gen trailer park rat. Literally everyone I know has such out of blown grandiose ideas of what they will earn in 5,10,15,20 years.
And nobody is smart enough to recognize that if that were even remotely true then everyone ever 30-40 you be a millionaire. But they fight tax hikes like its life and death and all tell you about how the business they just started will make them boat loads of money... Visit these people in 10 years and their still less than broke with the same irrational dreams...
Its not even funny even more its so fucking sad it makes me sick...
We are past the point of fixing Capitalism. Look to something like the Venus Project.
Carter Myers
Something like FREE SPEACH ANTI DEFIMINATION LEAGUE Where you can call anyone a faggot, nigger, kike, spic, and it wouldn`t be a crime who is with me ? Nobody I guess
Cameron Moore
I'm not really surprised to hear that tbh
Levi Scott
1 way to end a lot of corruption will be when guns are banned.
thankfully, in about 20 years, our liberal govt will repeal the 2nd amendment, ban guns, and confiscate them.
Virtually all corruption in the US is perpetrated by conservative fascists (and they reside in both political parties).
Oliver Nguyen
open up the internal markets, and abolish democracies. They are the root of all evil. The monarchies of old did well because it is in the interest of the Kangz n sheit to not mistreat the land.
Elijah Torres
>REDUCE government, by increasing regulation
>lose weight by eating more
I don't think you understand that regulations are government power.
Anthony Wright
Hehe! I'm still here, and the fact that this little post has managed to spark such an interesting and articulate discussion (for the most part)... on Sup Forums... makes me wonder if there might not be *something* to be done...the question is ...What,,,and How?
Justin Nelson
How much does ctr pay for something like this?
Do you get paid per post or hourly or some other way??
Leo Robinson
no regulations = massive corruption.
I see you don't understand the problem.
Look at healthcare costs in America for example. It's one truly free market system. And the corruption is palpable. It's the most expensive healthcare market on earth.
so again. more regulations = less corruption. less/no regulations = massive corruption.
Logan Morales
kek
I don't think everyone will get that bit of satire.
Joseph Jackson
economic illiterate
Xavier Lee
If you really want to do something then dedicate your life to becoming a billionaire.
Once you achieve that, give it all away and fuck the system.
Mason Thompson
So close
Thomas Ward
Rich people are just a drain on society, they provide nothing but debt to others while not doing any of the work.
>If all multimillionaires died nothing would happen, every business would still operate like nothing happened.
Luke Richardson
>just so happens to be the best healthcare on earth as well
more regulations = autismo less regulations = idiots die and smart people succeed.
Noah Evans
Hmmm - not sure it is...check out the OP, it's certainly at the core of the conversation, but legislation is still clearly relevant. And as for "pollute a little" evolution rather than revolution is reasonable, as long as the evolution is ongoing, and so far, it seems to be, I'm still optimisitc, sorry!
Samuel Campbell
where were you when trump flip flopped on Mexicans and muslims?
>be me >wake up, trump-supportin', eating pancakes >turn on fox news >"and now some breaking news. trump has decided not to deport the 11 million Mexicans who are in the US illegally." >drop fork with pancake >cry >"HOW COULD U LIE TO US TRUMP!!!1" >end the day.... Hillary-supportin'.
Asher Williams
no regulations = no corruption
when there are no regulations there is nothing to corrupt.
This is the fundamental problem: you believe a power can exist without being corrupted.
Alexander Cox
but why do Americans travel to south America for surgery.... if murca has "the best healthcare on earth"
why do they go to Canada to get prescriptions filled.
and why do you rape children?
Aaron Anderson
irrelevant point, we know 100% Hillary will not deport them, so why shouldn't we choose the guy who might deport them.
Elijah Roberts
Unless you can raise awareness of the problem in a comprehensible way? hence the need for leadership (see )
Jason Collins
yeah, you clearly suffered massive head trauma at some point. how's rand paul these days? trump will save you, don't worry.
Very few people understand the problems well enough to even begin debating a solution.
Ask any idiot off the street and their first idea will probably be something retarded that would tank the whole economy. >give everyone equal money, perfect communism >no laws at all, lynch all bankers >switch over to bitcoin >make government responsible for all major industry
And then you have a whole sector of industry (the financial sector) devoted to understanding the rules very well, and exploiting whatever circumstances to minmax their returns, even if it means destroying useful companies, ruining lives, etc.
Personally, I think a good first step would banning corporate donations to political campaigns (let the wealthy decide between making a donation and buying a new yacht). Instead of slapping a company on the wrist for massive, destructive fuckups (like the BP oil spill), auction off their assets and don't be afraid to throw executives in jail when malice or criminal negligence can be proven.
Sebastian Walker
might?
well who knows, he's flip flopped on muslims and Mexicans so many times now, who knows what the fuck he wants to do.
but what kind of a dumb asshole... would vote for him? that's the question.
Joseph Stewart
Yeah, we know, you read Friedman, profit is all, you must be a true scholar.
Jose Clark
What party was it that backed Citizens United? The GOP? Yeah, that party. And you're a trump-voter?
You've lost all credibility, and you are blocked. Don't bother responding, I literally won't be able to see any more of your posts.
lobbying should be ILLEGAL.
Cameron Allen
Yeah, I see similar trends... >Venus Project Interesting, thanks,
Caleb Watson
>college helps, >you clearly suffered massive head trauma at some point.
I see where your brain trauma came from.
Gavin Barnes
>college helps, just saying liberal arts graduate detected.
What about regulatory capture? Bureacrats picking winners and blocking competitors from entering the market? Why not have the government regulate everything if regulation is always better than letting market forces determine outcomes?
btw, I'll have a tall latte, with a little cinnamon on top.
Caleb Russell
The problem with modern economics is that at one point they just generate money from having money. There is a line where upon crossing you become a whale that cannot sink but only grow. And they just drain the money from the system because there's no way to spend it all unless literally giving it away.
Cameron Mitchell
But like I said it's not just awareness, its also ones ability to understand and reason, which I referred to as ones accuracy in their internal simulations.
Leadership is a work around to the problem, as in you are still relying on anothers level of awareness and not your own.
>The only fix is to force high education on everyone.
Grayson Perry
you shut your fag mouth. the rich create jobs! we're responsible for all of the jobs in AMERICA.
without us, the USA and every other country would devolve into 3rd world anarchist shitholes.
we're the heroes you don't deserve. and yes you chastise and lambaste us at every turn. shame on you.
Isaac Fisher
woahoho, I'm not muslim. My guess is the fact that overseas its less expensive. An example of capitalism. Btw ""surgeries"" could be counted as nose jobs, something that's not a necessity for health.
Can't speak on the prescription filling in Canada.
Alexander Powell
This post confuses me.
>lobbying should be illegal So congressmen will have to be locked in solitary confinement for their entire term, lest someone breathe a word that might change their opinion on an issue?
Grayson King
Social media is garbage.
Asher Sanders
Again, Hillary won't. 0% chance.
Landon Perez
lol you free-market amateurs are always amusing.
but seriously, get a degree in economics, then get a job working in economics, in any capacity.
your eyes will open, and you'll see just how blind, ignorant and myopic you've been. yes, breitbart has led you down a dark, narrow pathway of stupidity, racism and utter ignorance.
Adam Garcia
Nope, those who demand the product create the jobs. The rich only lends the money and makes money.
Dylan Jackson
If you think that jumping from one extreme to another is a way to prove your point, then it's no wonder that you get triggered so hard when someone mentions your probable lack of education. You know who supports anarcho-capitalism? The stupidly rich and the stupid. Make a guess where you belong.
Michael King
Because thinking is hard.
And because we're too busy binge watching the first 8 seasons of "People doing retarded things (A netflix original)," texting fuck buddies and playing Pokemon while complaining about how life sucks waiting for weed to show up in exchange for the cash we earned working 39 hours in retail + unpaid OT.
Jordan King
well trump won't either, per his stance today (after meeting with the latinos last night).
Xavier Lee
ONLY lend the money?
If we didn't LEND you the money - there would be no production, laborer.
have some respect.
Liam Smith
OP here, and yeah, I agree, politics *should* be personally finded, not corporate funded, but this relates to my idea of forcing companies to treat employees as shareholders (of some kind) it would potentially dilute the corporations political agendas as well as sharing economic success more fairly.
Tyler Lopez
I was probably watching some crap on the dvr from the 50's or 70's.
Trump's stooges are actually getting more entertaining. I just watched some fatty laughing at another fatty over her support while a blond bimbo looked on in dismay on cnn.
If i recall correctly, she put forth the idea that hillary hitting her head was comparable to nfl players getting concussed.
Kevin Johnson
If it is always this bad, then why are we still alive? We're never going to be truly happy.
Joseph Reed
Because im part of the rich caucasian overclass in power, and let me tell you, life is nice
Mason Adams
>people who demand product create the rich
Let me explain:
People demand a product. I spend money to make this product. They then give me money for providing them this product. I am now rich.
I now pay people to make the product exactly the way I would have if I were making it myself. Now, people have jobs. Somehow I'm the asshole.
Tyler Stewart
probably the people who got him $20 million in small donations last month
Parker James
Sure you are, buddy.
Jose Lewis
If the rich didn't exist everyone would have more money and several people could come together to start a business that they help operate by actually working hands on at the business.
And without loans from the rich it would just take a lot of saving to start a business, not impossible and in fact if it wasn't for the rich taking far more than their fair share, the average person would make enough to start their own business.
>TL;DR Without the rich the world be a better place.
Easton Hughes
mishmash of facts and bullshit that you just made up while typing them out.
Intelligence comes in the form of levels of awareness? What are those levels?
Animals have systems of simulation that are for motion and have nothing to do with intelligence. What simulations are you talking about?
Connor Cook
it is what humanity has been conditioned into for the most part, it will likely take a several events to realize how foolish we've become developed to undeveloped nation states it doesnt matter...we are headed the same course. also, at any given moment the vast majority are shitty, self absorbed and petty.