There will never be a balanced faithful and critically acclaimed adaptation of Frank Herbet's Dune series in your...

>there will never be a balanced faithful and critically acclaimed adaptation of Frank Herbet's Dune series in your lifetime.

is there like. a point to living, that isn't built upon suffering.

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>dune finally gets a miniseries
>it's based off the prequel novels because "lol not enough action"

I'm imagining a future where Zack Snyder directs Dune and makes it an objectivist wank fest and it's going to make me throw up

More liberal, muslim propaganda?

How about fuuuuuck no.

my poor son. my dear, son.

>Islam gives you super powers

Allegories have limits.

Not him but I finished the first book and wasn't that impressed.

I mean, it's alright. But the hype made me expect something more remarkable.

It has giant worms mechanical aircraft, that flaps its wings to fly, hallucinatory drugs that fuel the universe, prophecy within conspiracy, conspiracy within prophecy, coups within prophecy within conspiracy, intrigue, and questions on the political ramifications of decadancy, giant worms, science fiction without technology, nuclear explosions, revenge, and a deconstruction of the traditional hero narrative with how it constantly fucks with your sense of moral code as the protagonist falls deeper into alien logics that aren't understandable by man creating him into a monster responsible for endless genocide he suffers everyday recalling in memories from future not yet occurred, and is considered the most seminal classic science fiction series of all time, unrecognized in size scale and scope above even Tolkein

but I don't want to see it it's liberal it has people in the sand who aren't even portrayed in a positive or negative light.

It's the combined series that makes it work. The first three novels, Dune Vanilla, Messiah, and Children, that make it work as one cohesive narrative. The other are just completely alien but if you've gone that far you might as well.

Anyone who truly appreciated these books will never EVER want movies or tv series about it. Fuck your millennial hivemind

People have wanted to see this movie adapted since the 70's, from Jordorowsky to Ridley Scott to Lynch who actually tried but couldn't make it. It'd be almost impossible to really adapt properly, but they said the same for Lord of the Rings.

The only thing medium I don't want to see it adapted in is tv series or miniseries, like that scifi channel tripe. The first novel was built as a deconstruction of what a hero is, and a heroes journey fits into film well. That's why it was attempted to be adapted more than say, Lord of the Rings. It isn't really new to want it adapted is what I'm saying.

The setting as been a hot bed for conceptual design since the 70's attempt, design that would influence film years onwards. It wouldn't be hard to nail a good vibe and atmosphere, the novels ooze with it. In many ways it's a novel made for an impressive adaptation that's just impossible to adapt.

It's bullshit enough Jordorowsky's with Orson Welles and Salvador fucking Dali never saw the light of day.

God Emperor of Dune is highly regarded

That'd be even harder to adapt. I think the first three, if it ever happens and it's ever good, are a good jumping off point to establish the concepts. But how the fuck they can pull off Leto II from even the end of Children of Dune I haven't a clue.

Aren't HBO doing this after Game of Plebs ends?

Source?

Well, it is literally "stranger in a strange land" + "lawrence of arabia," so I don't know what point you're getting at.

> how the fuck they can pull off Leto II from even the end of Children of Dune I haven't a clue.

Take the kid playing charles xavier and put some mud on him.

Except Dune is more highly regarded than stranger in a strange land. It's best not to say an author is ripping off someone, when the author of the book your claiming was stolen from loved Dune.

don't joke about this you fucking prick

source or kill yourself

Lynch's Dune was a good movie and was the closest we will ever get to a good adaptation. The TV series was irredeemable shit. Jardo Dune would have been a trainwreck. There will never be a faithful and critically acclaimed adaptation of Dune because the universe is too thick and the themes are too complex to be expressed in film in any way that wouldn't put 99% of the audience to sleep.

I did not say this. I am not here.

this
hur some older dumbasses wanted it adapted too
kys

kill yourself
books are for faggot
dune was made to be a film

No it wasn't my dude. You should really consider suicide.

Wait a second, didn't he already play leto II in sci fi children mini-series?

Are you people in grade school. All I was lamenting was Dune never being able to fully, fully be brought to the screen. It's possible but it's a herculean task for anyone nobody would ever fund. And that's just disappointing.

>All I was lamenting was Dune never being able to fully, fully be brought to the screen.

I never said otherwise, I said earlier in the thread that the universe would be nearly impossible to express faithfully in film. Watch your mouth next time lil nigga.

>Watch your mouth next time lil nigga.
no

Ima give this lil white nigga AIDS

Who will play him in the inevitable biopic?

The bloated corpse of Orson Welles.

thatsapenis.gif

that's the baron

It can play every character, for all I care.

>adaptation of Dune

hmm let's see
>young boy is an outsider
>most family dead
>has to go on adventure through harsh environment
>meet mystical super nomads
>turns out he's The One™ that the prophecy predicted
>also turns out he has superpowers
>fights with swords
>has absolutely no character flaws whatsoever
>in the end overthrows the evil king and takes his place

you're right OP I absolutely cannot even think of anything similar

yea that's what I'm talking about. It ends with leto's transformation, and the "transformation" is "uh, leto, you've got some mud on your shoulder/neck."

I don't get it

no, clearly not

You're missing the point of the book. It's a deconstruction of the traditional western hero and why you shouldn't trust politicians and real life counter parts who follow such path, as they are deluded as seen through the fall of Paul into self justified prescient madness.

... stranger in a strange land was published 20 years before dune, yo, and its pretty much a cornerstone of the entire science fiction genre, with dune making regular callbacks to it.

that's not even in the first book though

>oh wow a piece of pizza

hmm let's see
>sauce spread across dough
>cheese sprinkled over sauce
>covered in Toppings™
>baked in an oven

you're right OP all pieces of pizza are exactly the same with no difference whatsoever

That being the case, Dune is still a better written and meaningful piece of fiction than Stranger and it's regarded as such universally.

The first book is all about the not-jews trying to create a messiah to lead them all into absolute power, and having that blow up in their face.

that's just a framework for a very predictable and formulaic plot though

Yes it is. Herbert described it as such. The entire series is based upon the premise, as said by Herbert himself "I am showing you the superhero syndrome and your own participation in it." As well as, The bottom line of the Dune trilogy is: beware of heroes. Much better [to] rely on your own judgment, and your own mistakes."

That was when Dune was still a trilogy, even.

the first book ends with Paul on top, right after his triumph. He's a perfect warrior and hero

>i've never read stranger in a strange land
>let me tell you about why its shit though

... son, really.

Well, he did kinda commit genocide

No it isn't lol Herbert himself said that he conceived Dune at first to be a sci-fi universe in which he could discuss concepts of ecology and the organism/environment relationship and that he eventually got carried away. The point of the book is, first and foremost, to express concepts relating to the environment/organism relationship, according to the author.

Don't assume or else you make an ASS outta' U and ME! :^)

Hes a perfect tyrant tearing down galactic civilization.

not in that book

not in that book

yea but they started it

Books can do more than one thing at once.

I don't care!!

You're simplifying the narrative for ease of description, but it's much more complicated. It's about how no one man can handle the emotional stress and responsibility of the powers Paul acquires. The book is filled with quotes, and false meanings that speak out at your moral compass, and what you do with the information is entirely up to you. Whether you buy Paul as the hero he becomes despite his pleas that he isn't, or his hypocritical acceptance of it later.

Paul in many respects is worse than both Shaddam IV and the Guild and the Bene Gesserit. But he does it because he cannot see a future for humanity that he can't set in motion himself with his vast awareness.

But prophecy is always a double edged sword. As the Cretan Epimenides saying, "All Cretans are liars.

An the second starts with him comparing himself to Hitler.
The first was the construction of the hero as a way to fool the audience into trusting Paul, the second and third totally deconstruct him.

>paul doesn't take absolute control of dune, in dune.

... uh, why are you acting as if you've read the book when you clearly haven't?

of course he does. That's not what you said though

Uh, yes he tackled ecology, that was his point of inspiration. But Dune is far more than its point of inspiration. It's a gigantic ocean sized series of ideas, settings, Baroque to Nouveau to Eroticism.

It's a great beautiful series of ideas put into a blender that still feels functional. If not magnificent in its function.

Leto II does a pretty good job of handling his powers though

You're not quite right there. Dune is the most creative science fiction ever written, Stranger is the most immersively believable science fiction world ever built. The best science fiction book ever is pic related, but most of you scrubs probably have no idea what this even is, which saddens me because I'm not an edgy hipsterboo

the description of what is going to happen is all in the first book though. In the first chapter the Fremen are impressed by Leto caring about saving sand-workers more than the spice, and then by the last chapter Paul cares more about hurting the Harkonnen than his own warriors. When he's first in the desert Paul sees visions of the coming jihad that he's going to lead, and at the end when he's confronting Gaius Mohiam he admits the jihad is coming and cannot be stopped. There's also the long exchange between him and Stilgar where he realises that Stilgar doesn't see him as an equal and a man who can make mistakes anymore, but that even he has bought into the messiah myth and now blindly follows Paul's mistakes.

The second and third book flesh out Paul's fall, but the first book has plenty of references to how it began

You said "THE point" as though it was the encompassing and ultimate point of the series, when it is actually only one small aspect of it and far from what anybody would call "the point of the book." Maybe learn how to talk my man so you don't end up saying things that you don't mean.

>And the second starts
I guess it's a good thing I wasn't talking about the second one

>the entirety of galactic civilization relies on dune
>paul takes absolute control of dune
>this doesn't result in the collapse of galactic civilization

... ya funnin wit me boy?

He also throughout the novel calls himself everything from monster to bastard to devil. He hates the power he has no choice in aquiring. He becomes a hero only in the minds of the weak he's terrified of influencing but has no choice in.

His legions conquer the stars in rape, murder, and jihad.

Paul is the protagonist, and the antagonist.

Give us information

You talk like a shitposter. Maybe you should learn proper diction so you don't come off as a cunt.

That is certainly not the best science fiction book. Maybe Neuromancer or something by Lem, but certainly not Bester.

>let's talk about a book series adaptation
>oh yeah but only the first one :^)
Son, please...

he really doesn't, he just chooses a future that is brutal and tyrannical for the sake of saving mankind in the long run. Paul saw the same future and the possibility it held but rejected it because he didn't think the means were worth it and hoped there could be another solution. Leto also suffered from massive loneliness and lost track of time and a basic sense of being human by the start of God Emperor. He could get lost for weeks at a time in his ancestral memories or prescient views which is why he stopped relying on them by the end.

I'm gettin there, I'm kinda stuck on Heinlein right now.

Why are you being so combative. I'd love to talk about this book, but the primary point, at least to me, is the deconstruction of the science fiction hero and western fantasy hero at the same time.

There are many points, but this remains the primary one. Paul isn't deconstructed as a character, as he is being deconstructed, it's all described by his character; losing his mind as he goes along to a universe that is always one step ahead of his logic.

Regardless of his motives, all his visions end in the same climax, his eyeless corpse floating in a sea of blood and bodies he's responsible for killing by doing what he believes must be done.

A point from a shitposter is still a point. If you don't watch that blabbermouth I'll teach you a thing or two about diction.

The future Leto II chose for humanity was a future that prescience could not see, predict, or influence. A future controlled by no one person or group. That was his golden path. The thousands of years getting there were just was was necessary to reach the golden path.

I never said it was shit.

right, but that doesn't mean he could handle the power and responsibility better than Paul could.
Paul tried his best to struggle against it and use his own life as an example for why people should reject the oracle.
Leto embraced it and became a tyrant whose brutality would leave such a psychic scar on humanity that they would have no choice but to reject him.
But in the end both suffered greatly and were destroyed by their power, whether or not they succeeded in their goals

Spot on. Leto II was playing the long game. The real question is: did he know he was going to die and just went along with it? Or was he legitimately fooled by his foes?

It's called "The Stars My Destination" by Alfred Bester, and does the best job of channeling rage into the written word of any novel I've read

Neuromancer is one of the most imaginative, but Bester took tragic opera and flung it onto a canvas the size of the universe. There is no more potent scifi novel. The author's willingness to go where other authors did not, contemplate extremes of human experience we cannot imagine, makes Stars a horizon-expanding read, and Neuromancer doesn't quite do it as well.

Which Heinlein? Read Stranger, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and Starship Troopers if you want. Nothing else is as necessary, although if you find you really like him I recommend The Cat Who Walks Through Walls

Teach me, sempai.

I'll get on that.

Holy shit, I gotta read this

youtube.com/watch?v=m4SwFhfNh1w

Brian Eno should have at least done the entire score for the Lynch version. The Prophecy Theme alone translates the feelings of reading the novels into a sound giving the same emotion perfectly.

I have a major issue with books where "intelligent machines are forbidden"

like, ok, so that navigational computer that can traverse FTL pathways is pretty dumb right? Or I guess because it doesn't need a hug or doesn't have a face means it's all cool to use it

you can maybe use the "self-aware" excuse but as computers become orders of magnitude more complex that self awareness is probably inevitable anyway

>did he know he was going to die and just went along with it?

Yes? He described the aftermath of his death in what dune would become. He never let himself look past a certain point, and that point was falling into the river.

>did he know he was going to die and just went along with it?
of course he knew. He referred to Hwi as "the perfect god-trap" and knew exactly why the Ixians made her, but he still took the bait. Besides, by then he had the Siona gene, had the Ixians developing No-spheres and machines that could navigate between planets without spice, and had setup the conditions that would lead to the Famine Times and the Scattering so it didn't matter if he were still alive anymore. Duncan and Siona's rebellion in killing him was basically proof to him that humanity was strong enough to survive on its own now

Red stranger and moon, currently on time enough for love, gotta hit troopers next. I'm stuck on him in the sense I'm thoroughly enjoying his work and thus, obsessed to keep reading.

In Dune they really, really, distrust computers in any form with a religious fervor.

If i remember, it's not computers that traverse FTL but in fact people that use a shit ton of melange so they can see into the future and do FTL travel with no worries.

I think Leto succeeded. Human civilization did spread throughout the universe after his death after all.

They use thousand year old mutated human beings warped by spice prescience. The engines to use a Heighliner are all there, the systems are monitored and controlled by guildsmen. And the navigator itself helms the ship by being aware of all objects simultaneously as it folds space, shifting the massive craft away from planets, asteroids, objects. Fuffiling the role computers used to onboard the craft itself.

It's a hard concept to grasp and explain, but that's what makes Dune so fun to read. It's full of just, imagery and ideas that make you stop for a second and reread to make sure you read what you just read.

they don't have machines that can traverse FTL. that's the whole point of the Spacing Guild because their Navigators are the only ones with the mental capacity to do that.

In Dune the technology to move an object faster than the speed of light is apparently pretty widespread and not banned, the problem is moving faster than light means you can't rely on any normal means of navigation: the light you see from your destination doesn't correspond to what will be there when you finish your jump.
So you have to rely on either:
1: highly advanced computers to correct for gravity, stellar movement and the various other deterministic physical forces that could affect your trajectory (which are banned)
2: narcotic-fueled navigators that can basically see a simple straight-line computational path into the future to predict how an FTL jump will go.

ok I get it but at the same time how does it make sense to trust a horrifying mutated brain blob more than a computer? You can't connect to the blob like a person and it doesn't have emotions, I assume? It's basically just a meatball computer

Their rejection of computers was mainly so herbert didn't have to wrestle with obsolete (or ridiculous) concepts before the first chapter was written.

The in-universe reason was how creation of machines that could reason as a man, lead to machines that could reason better than men, which made man obsolete. Therefore destroy all machines and improve man.

>how does it make sense to trust a horrifying mutated brain blob more than a computer?

Because it works without issue. I'm assuming the navigator has no reason to rebel, as it feels entirely pleasant in its state, pleasurable even, grasping the dimension and size and scope of the cosmos is its job, and its addiction.

I mean, Leto II formed a plan, stuck to the plan, increased his capacity as a sentient entity when necessary to better articulate the plan, and accomplished the plan completely.

Paul lost control of the jihad almost the instant it started then spent the rest of his life... well, whining about it.

>there will never be a Culture series adaptation because the normies won't get how a utopian classless society has problems

The blobs are addicted to Spice, they don't have any reason to rebel.

There are plenty of books where the use of intelligent machines are overused, so a setting where the omission of "thinking machines" is not only deliberate, but woven into a plot point, is a breath of fresh air. Not only that, but the void left by thinking machines is what germinates so many of the unusual, innovative things about Dune. The use of melange to give humans consciousness-expanding insights that let them approximate AI computational ability, the seemingly ancient way people fight with knives and shields, and the deep-seated, nearly religious paranoia with which the inhabitants of the universe view the idea of AI, as well as the definitely religious history that was imbued by the Butlerian Jihad against machines: all that would not be found in a series with artificial intelligence, nor would it be equaled.

Navigators definitely have emotions.

The blobs are people, just mutated through generations of spice usage. And Expanding on the concept of improving man (), there are human computers known as "mentats" that are trained from a young age.