Trans-Pacific partnership

Now that the USA is out, is this dead?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Comprehensive_Economic_Partnership
youtube.com/watch?v=lw5LjZ3Q7j4
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Yeah, China is going to pick up the scraps.

Pax Americana is finished.

I thought so to. The fact that one of the articles says that the partnership won't exist without America is another nail in the coffin
Like you said, I feel like trump did exactly what China wanted too

dead. that wouldve only benefited big exporting companies. and disneys shitty copyright treatment was gone with it as well. good riddance.

>dead
Along with Abenomics

So the jap's opinion of this were in disfavor? Interesting
Most Latin American anons whose countries signed this talked about it like it's their pass to development

>Along with
i havent been all for it, in the first place. i think i hate it.

tpp wasnt part of that shit. a lib party was going ahead with it for a shitty reason and the con party just took over it pandering to riches.

>it's their pass to development
mightve been for you. but for japan, it was nothing but for riches.

I remember my hippy history teacher complaining about TPP and now Trump's put it in the coffin. What is it and why does Trump as well as my old history teacher hate it?

A year ago literally everybody was opposed to TTP and TTIP but now that Trump is binning them, everybody is now a free trade fanatic. Didn't expect anything less.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Comprehensive_Economic_Partnership

god i hated the left chimping out against the TPP.

they wouldn't listen to anything, just shut their ears and kept yelling.

A honest debate about the TPP could have been good, but instead we got ''LALALALALALA, YOU SUCK, YOUR IDEAS SUCK''

I'm pretty neutral to Trump, but honestly, all sides being against free-trade so much this year depressed me quite a bit.

Anyway there'll be another one, just with China leading.

It's time for Australia to step up and become the dominant player in the pacific they were always destined to be.

Thank god. The only time I'd thanked the US.

most likely they'll become semi-Chinese cucks.

depending on how much the USA retreats from the area.

Actually, it seems like it's not completely over yet.

Especially Australia is pushing to keep the deal alive even without the US. It would include China and South Korea.

All nations, with the obvious exception - Japan, seem interested.

it's a paint-job. Nothing more.

only good could come if they combine the 2 agreements somehow, Australia may want this so they could try and keep some special clauses.

What are you talking about? It's completely different ffs.

TPP would've been centred around the US and this alternative one will be lead by China. There will be no other agreement, so they can't combine it with anything. US will be excluded from this.

TPP, which was completed and only needed approval from the US Congress, is now dead and TTIP, which was still being negotiated and would take years to complete, was killed by European countries.

If Japan is not in then there really is no point after all. We already have an FTA with the US, the rest can go die

i was talking about TPP and RCEP

yeah if China wants a FTA with the other asian countries, it will be Japan that they'll need to bring on board.

Japan is afraid of China and hates South Korea. It's natural that they're going to stay out of it if their colonial master and protector isn't on board.

TPP was included in the American Pivot to the Pacific, which was only about containing China. That's dead now and you have to accept this new reality.

Tr*mp gave Paicific Rim countries (40% of global GDP) on a platter to China without gaining a single concession.

But ya know #MAGA #winning and all that

Honestly, I have no problem with our new chinese overlords.

its not development for anyone m8
its just a bunch of ip regulation bullshit and corporatism

countries only develop with education and fostering creation of wealth

>education and fostering creation of wealth
Which doesn't happen if all your companies do is illegally duplicate foreign IPs.

>fostering creation of wealth
How would you aproach to do that?

>It's an Anglo surrender away their Empire episode

Good God, it's 1945 all over again

It was a deal aiming to get American influence into the booming Asia market which is great for America and their allies in the long run.

But at the same time it would've have grossly disrupted and displaced millions of American workers.
It would be fine if the people who stand to gain immensely from this would cut a percentage of their profits to retrain all the workers they've displaced like a civilized country.
But helping someone like that for free would commie pinko shit so those people would be shit out of luck.

It's a double edge sword. It would've be great for America in the long run but at the same time your telling millions of your own citizens "lol, good luck idiots. I gots mine" by pulling the rug out from under them with no system in place for them to get back on their feet.

NOT AGAIN :^(

>Latin American anons whose countries signed this talked about it like it's their pass to development
We've been hearing, "X is 's pass to development for how many decades?

Latin America will never be developed

Yes. Ultimately the biggest issue isn't the TPP itself but more like all current and future partnerships with America now that they've proven they value treaties like toilet paper and are clearly not trustworthy.

this.

few will trust America fully from now on, in this region at least.

>Trump hates NATO
>we already betrayed Eastern Europe once, to the Soviets
>millions raped, hundreds of thousands killed or disappeared, millions arrested and/or enslaved in the gulags
>but today they are free
>they are the only people actually grateful for our help
>they are happy to see our soldiers
>but we don't care apparently
>"WHY SHOULD WE CARE WHAT HAPPENS ALL THE WAY OVER THERE"

I-I'm so sorry. Idk why Americans are so cold and callous. I mean NATO is literally unironically about freedom, freedom from the Russian yoke, and Americans don't seem to care. It actually makes me sad, knowing that we're selling little countries like the Baltics, who don't stand a chance on their own, down the river. And for what? Closer ties with Russia?

FUCK RUSSIA and fuck Putin.

Tbf America's never had a populist in charge before, hence the surprise.

honestly not sure if this is sarcasm or not.

It was bound to happen. At it's core the US is as third world as the rest of americas.

>America's never had a populist in charge before

never in modern history, had some earlier but even those were more experienced then Trump is right now.

ISIS seem to have Americans quite scared, it's somewhat understandable that some (and in this case, the majority) will abandon higher ideals for their more immediate concerns.

Yes, and good riddance.

yes and isis will stop trying to attack the USA if they retreat from the world...

>Pax Americana is finished.
Exactly my thoughts. Hopefully he will also crash TTIP too

That's what some seem to believe, as silly as it may sound.

>US is as third world
How is being populist third world?

they'll be proven wrong, sadly.

i understand the feeling though.

I can't but hope europe will try to stop being a USA vassal..

i can dream..

Andrew Jackson was a genuine populist though.

Meanwhile, Trump's cabinet contains people like Tillerson, DeVos and Mnuchin.

One can dream,

TTIP was dead even before Trump.

he was a senator, he was a military man...etc

read only his inaugural speech, he was not a ''negative populists'' as Trump is.

There are different kinds of populism.

Trump's populism is about scapegoating minorities.

We'll it hasn't formally failed yet

When USA had the high ground why did it accept such bad trade deals ?

you'll never be friends with Russia anyway.

Bush tried to be with his ''i saw a soul in his eyes''
Obama was so ready to ''restart'' that he completely threw Georgia under the buss in 2009

2 superpowers can't be friends.

the only one who was actually friends with Russia was Clinton, but that was because Russia under Yeltsin collapsed and couldn't stand against the USA, so he accepted American domination.

Putin doesn't and the only way for him to ''rise'' back again is at Americas expense

And then when they fuck you without lube in the ass, you won't get to blame the US like always

Gonna be so fun seeing how our "allies" react to having to fend for themselves

They weren't bad for corporations, just normal people

it's because of your allies that you are the superpower of this world.

It's actually due to our GDP output and massive amounts of intellectual capital, but I suppose they play a small part.

Not like being the sole superpower has benefited us all that much. We were doing fine before we got involved in world politics

>Pax Americana is finished.
Just because America stops looking out for Yuropoors and island chinks doesn't mean they're not calling the shots on the planet. They still have a military as large as that of the next ten militaries combined, and they have both the largest and second largest airforce (US airforce and US navy respectively). Pax Americana won't go away until China seriously tries to challenge it, which will take a few decades.

Come on man, we've definitely had some form of divine intervention to get where we are today.

One user wrote a fantastic post about it and all the crazy wealth we've found on this continent

what we should look at is Chinas FTA in the area

if they could get it done then those countries would produce around 28% of the worlds GDP, this is without the SA countries Mexico and Canada.

While NAFTA produces around 26-27%

Also the USA army is wortless if there isn't a will to actually use it.

They're already thinking aloud how China may take the place of the US in TPP.

Cool, they get to be cucked by Chinese companies and corporations and we don't get our labor unions undermined even more. Sounds ideal

The TPP would have fucked up our copyright legal system even more than it already is. Not to mention it would have meant yet more jobs leaving us.

It was the smart move to make. Hopefully we can negotiate a different trade deal between our pacific allies.

this

i'm curious about Canadas

They just got a very anti-Russia foreign minister. Who can't even enter Russia btw.

Also they changed the ambasador to China to a Vancouver guy married to a chinese, who comes from a chinese majority area of the city and speaks Mandarin.

Not to mention the FTA with the EU.

I could see Trudeau, trying to make Canada a bit less dependent on the USA.

I know it's very difficult to understand from a European perspective, but there's a big difference between a trade treaty and a country.

Also, with America out, all the countries that fear China's influence (most notably Japan and South Korea and Taiwan) are most likely out as well. Those three are already a significant loss, leaving China behind with only the already pro-Chinese countries of South-East Asia and maybe (though highly unlikely) Latin America. And something tells me that if forced to choose, Latin America will choose the USA over China.

As for Canada, don't make me laugh. 80% of their trade is with America, are they really going to risk that for that other 20%?

Chances are that with America out, TTP isn't going to continue at all.

this one took 15 years, they won't go for another 15 year long negotiating.

Not if China promises something quicker.

It's gonna be picked up by China to make lotsa moneys and business along with all the other Pacific partners, and Make America Manufacture Transistors Again and sell them to themselves. Or to Canadians. Because cut out of the loop and locked out of most relevant international markets.

NAFTA basically benefited everyone in the US besides people in manufacturing because it lowered the cost of most products.

The biggest problem with it is that nobody in the government properly warned or put in place a transition plan for factory workers in the Midwest and just left them out to dry.

The initial idea behind TPP is good. It's main goal was to squeeze out China in trade in the pacific. The problem with it is the deal was loaded with all sorts of absolutely bullshit power leases to corporations, instead of just reasonable incentives. I still want a new TPP deal with the same goal of marginalizing China, but without provisions like the right for Corporations to sue countries willy nilly for simply suspecting intellectual theft.

That's basically impossible without dismantling Albertas oil sands, which would tank Canada's GDP

iirc there was also backlash in many of the other TPP countries who didn't wish to have US copyright imposed on them.

You're telling me that China, a place who's media merchandise market exists because of lax copyright laws will just jump on board with all of this without trying to change things?

our GDP hit the shitter as soon as we decided that relying on oil exports like some sandnigger country would be a good economic idea.

>The biggest problem with it is that nobody in the government properly warned or put in place a transition plan for factory workers in the Midwest and just left them out to dry

this is never stressed enough. Manufacturing jobs are dying anyway, local governments should try and reform, educate...etc The days when you worked all your life in the same factory is gone. Without TPP they simply delayed the inevitable.

> Corporations to sue countries

Any corporation, yours included, could have sued if they were discriminated against unfairly.

to ensure a true FTA something like this is needed.

>I still want a new TPP deal with the same goal of marginalizing China,

perhaps in the next 20 years then. but i doubt it.

Not to mention China has basically lost every single war in its incredibly long history that wasn't vs itself.

China has looked strong as fuck multiple times throughout history, but they always collapse when they actually have to demonstrate their ability to be a superpower.

Not until they kill NATO I think (which the madman Trump might actually do)

many developing countries had clauses, that made those laws softer for them, as not to restrict them.

There was little protests of the TPP outside the USA, Canada and Australia.

only the leftists being against it, in the last 2 countries.s

I wouldn't call historical tendencies a valid argument. Remember when the Germans thought WW1 would be a walk in the park due to France's atrocious performance in the Franco-Prussian war, and this mistake spelled their doom? And how based on this they overestimated France in 1940?

I remember some backlash in Japan too, and usually from the right who wished to avoid any sort of interference by US policy making.

The countries that stood to benefit from this were large populated ones such as Indonesia and the Flippies. The rest were likely to lose industry jobs in the process.

when they were a medial kingdom perhaps.....

they fought 1 war since WW2, against India and they won easy.

Don't underestimate China, it would be a mistake. Their military is extremely strong, and they have huge manpower.

Also the government is no longer hardcore communists, they are a simple dictatorship with a huge dose of nationalism thrown in there.

also there's a new government every 10 years, this reduces preasure from within.

Larger countries will bleed industry no matter what.

American manufacturing boomed because it was the only one left after WW2, and everyone bought from them.

It's not the same anymore.

you need some serious reform in your economy,

especially in areas such as the rust belt.

Alliances are more important. Just think Germany under Bismarck. It's all alliances, alliances, alliances. All his political work revolves around them. And the result was Germany's phenomenal rise. After him idiots thought, because they were so strong, they could do it all alone and that alliances don't matter that much. They squandered them and ran blindly into WW1. The rest is history.

This

I don't know how would Trump stop automatization

If he did that, then America would simply fall behind the rest of the world

>Pax Americana is finished.
I hope not

We're too large of a country to rely on white collar like Europe does. There is too large a portion of the population that is classified as unskilled workers, and schooling is too expensive to shift to skilled labor like Europe has, nor are there any good historical trends to suggest that such a shift would be sustainable in the long run.

well in theory they could do this

>no more importing
>producing at home

this would create millions of manufacturing jobs, but mess up the economy massively.

It's directly dependant on their position as main international trading country and main finantial guarantor and provider.

Remove the dollar from the position of de facto international currency, especially in relation to commodities, and the leverage provided by US or US led financial institutions from the equation, and they will have to fund the maintanance of all those carriers, subs and shit with charity donations from the miliboo lads in Montana.

Autarky never worked in the long run.

Japan, China or Spain...

>>no more importing
This isnt even feasible in america

So instead of the US getting a foothold on China's doorstep, China may get one on America's. "Brilliant" foreign policy move...

Hell, just look at North Korea

Also automatization wouldn't kill many jobs if the education system would be improved to produce higher skilled workers.

but we know how the education system is there.

>There is too large a portion of the population that is classified as unskilled workers

then you first task would be to reform the education system, to try and lower the numbers in the long-run.

honestly that was your biggest mistake.

san oil dependent economy brings quick prosperity, but it's hell in the long run

The thing that makes the US a valuable trading partner doesn't hold as true for China.

You're forgetting about the fact that the US is the largest consumer market by a long shot. You need someone to buy all the goods.

I definitely don't take China lightly and assume history can't change, but East Asia has always had a problem standing together long enough to make a run at imperial conquest outside their own continent, and it's still true today. Asians have a tendency to hate each other too much to look further than their neighbors.

The US has done a phenomenal job bringing in countries all over the globe under their sphere of influence, while China has struggled to even bring bordering countries in to their power circle. They couldn't even form ties with Vietnam despite us having just fought a war with them a few decades ago.

The US has Japan, SK, Taiwan, and Vietnam all under its dominion, while China's best ally in the area is an impoverished North Korea run by a crazy man child dictator. China certainly has the economic and military power, but their diplomatic game sucks.

>you need some serious reform in your economy,
>especially in areas such as the rust belt.
That's what Trump is doing (or at least trying) and that's why the Rust Belt is what landed him in the White House. He's bringing American business back to America and wants to focus on export rather than import as well as boost domestic sales and increase job opportunities. Perhaps I can't play 4D chess and all of this is going to blow up in his face, but for now it sounds like a really good plan.

Hence America's many foreign interventions. They're very, very serious about protecting the petrodollar and that's not going to change just because they don't import Chinese goods tariff-free.

To be fair, you rely on your oil for your internal integrity as well.
youtube.com/watch?v=lw5LjZ3Q7j4
Like this guy says, Canada is basically the Federal Government using Alberta's oil to pay Quebec to not leave. If Alberta were to join America (which would favor it incredibly in economic terms), the Fed would lose its last means of pressure on Quebec. That would mean Canada would lose two provinces and the East, Middle and West are no longer connected, meaning they might split up as well and you end up with four or five countries (depending on whether or not BC joins America too).

You need to be oil jews to survive.

Apple, to give an example, sells more in China then the USA.

Chinas economy is changing, into a consumer one, sure right now it isn't at the USA lvl, but in 5 year? 10?

it will get there and beyond.


Funny enough, with the loss of huge amount of manufacturing jobs loss, i mean cities with milions of people becoming ghost towns, a Trump like guy campaigning on a ''Bring back our jobs'' could do well in China, if the country was a democracy that is.

>And something tells me that if forced to choose, Latin America will choose the USA over China.
Why would LatAm choose the US over Chine when China is our biggest trade partner by a long shot?

What's TPP again? Can someone explain?

We already chose China senpai, USA hates us and our products and before Trump.