Why is it that any time someone criticizes this film, 90% of the time it's literally made up complaints?

Why is it that any time someone criticizes this film, 90% of the time it's literally made up complaints?

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Isn't that in the nature of criticism?

>criticisms aren't complaints

Because you're a tryhard pseudo intellectual autistic retard that ignores all valid criticism to circlejerk over meaningless buzzwords like Kino

Its the type of movie you need to watch twice

Not that it's so deep but the problems seem less bad when watched again

>critics aren't pseudo intellectual retards

Bzzzzzzzz try again

>diversion tactics 101
Pathetic neckbeard fuck, at least those critics have a job.

The commoner's mind is a mystery.

Watched it recently for a 3rd time. What a steaming pile a shit it is.

Nothing.
You fucks have spent 3 years trying to explain why this movie isn't trash and now you are obviously tired and just outright saying that critics aren't valid.

3 years of crying about the completely deserved awful reception MoS got and you have changed nothing, maybe it's time to move on, don't you think?
And no, with move on, I don't mean move on to spend the next 3 years trying to explain why BvS wasn't trash.

>buzzwords and memes

Thanks for adding to the discussion

Superman fans are autistic and hate that this Superman isn't like the one they grew up with.

Same with the whole "B-batman doesn't kill!" complaint with BvS

This

plebs hate this movie just because of their preconceived ideas and retarded expectations. when faced to the truth, there's actually nothing to hate there, so they make shit up to avoid the cognitive disonance.

the first 20 minutes was good

it's shit because dubs man isn't in it

>inb4 MCUcks chime in with "stop invincible son", as if a meme based on a single scene that they clearly didn't understand is enough to discount an entire film

>why?
>nothing

> all valid criticism
it's not though

>awful reception
fresh 163
rotten 130
50/50ish isn't even remotely a awful reception.

The 195 rotten vs 19 fresh the new Fantastic 4 got is!

>and you have changed nothing
Actually we have almost no one still claims "Superman destroyed the city" like they were screaming when it first came out. Because he factually fucking didn't!

No you haven't.
Man of Murder will always be a meme.

Great, 30 more years and people might start thinking the movie wasn't trash, keep it up.

youtube.com/watch?v=1ZZIEkFk_NQ

Reminder it's just the same dozen people or so that stubbornly hate this movie and continually shit on it

When I first saw the movie, I hated it. But after rewatching it before BvS, I learned to like it. A 7/10
And then I watched BvS. I liked the movie. There's no doubt it's flawed to the point it's a 6.5/10 in my opinion, but the hate for it is vastly overblown because it's not "fun". I had a lot of fun personally.

Because you refuse to acknowledge the validity of any criticism of your precious "kino"

such as?

Still Sup Forumss favourite sueprhero flick

>Sup Forums's favourite movie
Just more proof of how bad the movie is.

ITT scenes that make you think

yeah everyone knows that reddit has the best taste in movies

/r/movies said Bvs was shit and that marvel/disney is the best

Everyone but 10 DCfags still clinging to some hope on Sup Forums thought BvS sucked.
Reddit is shit, but I don't think the opinion of blue Sup Forums is relevant at all.

>mother and baby whale
>next scene is about Martha comforting Clark
K I N O

What's the difference between Sup Forums and Reddit?

>nuh muh X!
>man of murder!
>stop invincible meme!
>but what about when [easily explainable part of movie if you have 2 braincells]? the movie sucks!

when the movie came out 3 years ago i skipped it in theaters, pirated it and really disliked it but seeing the all the retarded complaints made me like it more honestly'

take out the smallvillee fight sceen and its a 8/10

>No you haven't.
>Man of Murder will always be a meme.
No it won't because killing in self defense or defense of others isn't murder.
And Clark never took his eyes off Zod when he jumped over the truck, it could have been a milk truck for all he knew. The fact that he looked back up in horror when it explodes proves it was unexpected proving he didn't just ignore it not caring if it exploded.
And the fact that Zod almost instantly is upon him punching him down justifies his not taking his eyes off him.

>doesnt realize its a gas truck in time
>literally looks turns around out of shock

man of murder at work

A meme it's a meme.
Baneposting has been a thing for 5 years already when the ''For you'' has an easy explanation.

But it was a billion light years from trash, it had extremely few technical flaws.
Just because the dark tone, non mary sue Superman, lack of slap stick, camp or romance doesn't appeal to the majority of people doesn't mean it wasn't a great film.
Gangster films don't appeal to everyone that doesn't mean the Godfather isn't fucking superb.

>no response
everytime.

I'd really like to hear some of these valid complaints that don't seem to exist.

What was wrong with the Smallville fight?
And don't say because he didn't take the fight out of town, he tried to drag Faora out but Non tackled him and He punched Non into the train yard which is not ideal but still better then continuing to fight in main street.

I'm with you. I have high hopes for what the director's cut will bring.

Possible spoilers in the suppositions to follow:

In light of the growing possibility that at least some metahumans are going to arise from a Kryptonian strain within humanity, how do you think that will affect the way their abilities are handled?

the problem is that for some reason people expect clark to act with some cold tactical state of mind that he is not implied to have.
even in the last fight against zod, he's clearly outmatched, overpowered, and out maneuvered at every turn and only wins because zod loses his focus


what makes this movie "bad" is that it played its story mostly straight (of course barring some small details that aren't explored)
that's it
instead of taking the premise, and what happens within people are saying it's bad because it's not x or y. people have told me its shit because superman doesn't smile which not only is not true but is bullshit anyway

what got me into bvs while watching it was the realism, not in the premise that it's exceptional people exist but in how the world reacts to them and how they fit into the world


the 'other guy' makes movies that read like happy fun hang out time with at most maybe some sort of question posed and the titular good guy saying "no! bad!" which is absolutely fair game, but there's no reason to expect or hold any one else to an obligation to be like this
the whole conversation around these movies is completely hypocritical, not only because things are blown out of proportion and taken out of context and twisted around, but because comics themselves do the very things these movies are criticized for and no one ever even brings those details up in say, storytimes or other forums but they run these same plays with even more added in within
BvS is the most comic book capeshit so far, yet it gets shit on for all those same details that make it so. let alone the talk about muhh symbolism and muh allusions as if comics don't pull that all the time with no more 'subtlety' than snyder
i've had a guy tell me to my face (so to say) that the was some panel drew an association between superman and jesus was subtle even while it was the same shit snyder does ie some depiction of jesus in the background with clark/superman in the foreground

I know what you mean, and they even pulled that same thing in "Superman Returns," except there, the message was literally "Superman's like God listening to our prayers," which, frankly, doesn't really say anything at all interesting about his character.

Care to post some examples of these made of complaints?

Made UP complaints. Fucking touch typing.

Pathetic excuse to get big fight scene in [iconic location]. Superman brought the fight into town!

Just like Metropolis, there was no real reason to bring the world thingy there. At least Metropolis you can rationalize it by saying like Zod wanted to fuck up the biggest human city or something, but Smallville is hopelessly terrible

Not OP, but I will:

>Superman never says anybody(he does, both personally and globally)

>Superman never smiles(he does, only not when he's facing grave circumstances, which is most of the film. He smiles a lot as Clark)

>Superman doesn't try to minimize the damage(true, he doesn't, but he's kind of inexperienced facing a threat that's nearly his equal in terms of power alone)

>Pa Kent's all wrong. His death is supposed to teach Clark the lesson that he can't save everyone(how would Clark not already know this? That is, and always has been, a lesson to the audience, not for Clark himself, and it injects some pathos into his origin, also, see pic related)

And lastly,
>Too grim, too dark, Superman shouldn't be like this(because mindless escapism is all a cape movie can ever be, right?)

>never says anybody
*saves*

The only thing I will say about BvS is that the directors cut will raise it from a 4 to a 6, tops. It has so much wrong things in it, it would take forever to write it down and no one would read it, so I won't. Instead I'll write whats wrong with Man of Steel and take that most critscism over that passes over to BvS.

Story:
>convoluted, unnecessary plot about the Codex and Krypton being divided into "specialists", which is briefly mentioned but never truly realized in the film (i.e. jor-el fights toe to toe with zod).
>the attempt to update the character was poorly made - his main conflict is wheter or not he should help people, and its impossible to relate to that - the conflict should be, "am I up to helping people and having a 'normal' life at the same time?". Instead he restrains himself for fear. The same problem goes for Jonathan Kent. Superman as a character serves only as a hope ideal, it doesnt go far when you look at him from another angle. He is a character who should "inspire hope" and yet the movie tries to inspire fear.
>the Zod threat (and therefore all the destruction it brings) rises from Superman presence, so it would be better if the hero didnt exist at all (which is never a point in the film)
> forced romance between Superman and Lois Lane
>Jonathan Kent's fear that the world will fear Clark could be interesting but its taken too damn far at the point of making the character a raging lunatic
>it does not estabilish that the character is advert to killing
>filled with expository dialogue and one-liners
>filled with little plot-holes

Visuals, directing
>the destruction in Metropolis goes way too far; a Superman movie should not be drawing parallels to 9/11 in the moment of "heroism"
>filled with forced christ simbolism done in the most blatant, obvious ways possible
>product placement
>"snyder visual style" consists in slow-motion, high contrast and muted colors and close-ups.

Re watched this yesterday for the 6th time I think. It's a gloomy, boring mess that sucks it's own dick constantly despite some mediocre performances from at least 3 of the actors in it and the music is lackluster and very underwhelming/disappointing.

That didn't bother me. He's new enough at that point that he's still overreacting to Zod threatening his mom.

At this point, I'd normally provide an image that explains what the religious imagery is there to convey, but I'm tired of being called a troll and those images being "bait."

no.

It's where Superman's mom lived. That's not a "pathetic excuse", it's the reason. That's why they were there.

This is why these threads are so shit. Dumb niggers like user here womble along complaining in ways that don't make sense. But you can't explain to them, because to have made the complaint in the first place they have to be so detached from a condition of reason and logic that it is literally impossible to communicate ideas to them.

Overreact in literally any other cardinal direction

that being said I think its a 6/10 movie, do not like this misconcieved Superman but he has little moments that saves it from completely sucking, and I also like the strong "alien invasion movie" vibe. BvS was absolute garbage tho, if the extended cut has some more character development maybe it will make it a little better, but you can only do so much with misconceived main characters, misconceived sense of heroism, a first story that adapts deconstructive stories from the 90's and tries to play it straight and the only thing the movie has going for it is a shitty christ metaphor that they take too serious and think its way smarter than it actually is.

>Superman tackling Zod through miles of farmland into Smallville

You ever read an old comic called "Star Brand."

thats the point, everyone knows what its trying to convey and its not smart, its not a big deal and it certainly doesnt require an "image" to explain it

What's it conveying, then?

>Instead he restrains himself for fear. The same problem goes for Jonathan Kent.

Every thread. FLAWED CHARACTERS DO NOT INDICATE BAD WRITING. "Should be" DOES NOT APPLY because THE FILM IS ITS OWN STORY. It's not impossible to relate to Clark in MoS because fundamentally his issue is about making decisions for himself rather than letting his life be dictated by others. That's the thematic exploration of the film, not whether or not he should save people, but that he should make up his own mind on whether to save people or not rather than simply doing what was expected of him.

>(which is never a point in the film)

But it fucking is or else how

I mean what the fuck user you just pointed out how it was a point in the film, did you want a freeze frame with a paragraph explaining what was happening every 10 minutes

>it does not estabilish that the character is advert to killing

What about his fucking SCREAM OF HORROR AT KILLING

FUCK YOU user

YOU ARE SUCH A FUCKING FAGGOT

>SHOULD

>SHOULD

>SHOULD

CHRIST ALMIGHT JUST END YOUR FUCKING LIFE

basically working on two levels, the burden of being a supposedely godly persona but with a human mentality and the nietzschian complex of superman. Thats subtext to almost every superhero story, the problem is that the movie spits this shit out in dialogue

What if I were to tell you that it's there to indicate when the people around Clark are thinking of him as a god, and that it's not exclusively Christian imagery?

it is bad writing when the movie is trying to make conflict be relatable and it isnt, user. Sorry. About you little bitch attack about the scream, thats exactly the point, it comes and it goes with a scream instead of working the theme and the decision not to kill throughout the movie.

The thing is nobody gives a shit that some shot in the movie has a religious reference to it.
People go watch a Batman vs Superman movie to get Batman vs Superman.
Why would anyone come to this movies to see random religious references?

Sure, it's pretty, but nobody cares, nobody asked for it and it doesn't add as much as just making a less convoluted plot.

/thread

Another user here, but how do you assume the overwhelming majority of people you pass on the street feel about murder?

>and that it's not exclusively Christian imagery?
So?

Thanks for actually replying with some examples. I haven't seen the movie in a while so I can't remember enough to refute/discuss specifics.

I think Superman himself was fine, but the overall tone was sort of nolanesque which I found not appropriate for superman.

I want those posters

Why was teen Clark reading Plato? I mean kids that age normally just fuck around

that it would be fine in the context the movie presented it, even thought it was poorly done. A more skilled writer would make the hero solve the problem dealing with the villain in a creative way; you make the hero kill to make a point, and the movie doesnt do that - and in BvS the heroes continue to kill with no problem.

>Superman brought the fight into town!
By accident he genuinely was looked down at Zod's face while punching him not where they were flying towards.

>Just like Metropolis, there was no real reason to bring the world thingy there
The black zero was already above it, remember it was visible to Lois in the sky when Zod sent out the warning.
The World Engine itself went to the indian ocean opposite it.

>when the movie is trying to make conflict be relatable and it isnt

I found it relatable. It's about father figures and changing attitudes to their authority, who can't relate to that.

>Be Kryptonian in MOS.
>Apparently able to breathe in fucking space.
>Give a shit about Earth's atmosphere.

OP here

>mfw not a single credible criticism has been posted about this movie yet

feels good

MoS and BvS are just the result of Snyder trying to one-up the seriousness of Nolan.
Thing is, that's all Nolan had, seriousness, it wasn't dark and gritty, and that's what people don't like because I wonder who wants to see sad, dark and gloomy stories about superheroes.

It's pretty weird.

>>the destruction in Metropolis goes way too far; a Superman movie should not be drawing parallels to 9/11 in the moment of "heroism"
Yes it should if this is a darker world around Superman that he has to actual strive and struggle thru to accomplish things instead of it just coming easy and effortlessly to him.

>be hell bend on revenge and filled with hatred
>people question your motives outside of that mindset

Perry White's question to Lois:

"Do you know how people would react if they knew someone like this was out there?"

Pete Ross's mom after the bus rescue:

"It was an act of GOD, Jonathan." (Jonathan immediately goes to find Clark and set him straight about that)

The imagery's there to convey how people react when confronted with proof that not only does extraterrestrial intelligence exist, it is superior to us in almost every conceivable way - they try to make a god out of it.

On another level entirely, it's a visual metaphor for what being Superman is: being a guy trying to be a hero when your nature(alien) and your environment(Earth) conspire to present you as a god.

If they'd really wanted to be pretentious and transparent about that, they could have made him wear a hat with "GOD" embossed across the front. Instead, they gave us some beautiful visuals.

Bad bait. Not even OP.

You have some points but I disagree with some of the things you say.

>Jonathan Kent's fear that the world will fear Clark could be interesting but its taken too damn far at the point of making the character a raging lunatic
We've seen the things Clark is capable of. He could literally destroy the planet if he felt like it. Kent has every right to believe in what he does. Not only does he love his son but he doesn't want the world to corrupt him like Batman. Kent doesn't want Clark to get to a point where he's branding people with heat rays.

>it does not estabilish that the character is advert to killing
He did not have a choice. It was either a family of innocents or Zod. Zod made it clear he was not stopping and he had to be put down. Afterwards, Clark screams in agony over killing his kin. It's not something he ever wanted to do but it happened. This is Kent's fear coming into play.

>the destruction in Metropolis goes way too far
It gives a sense of scale to Superman. It was beyond perfect because this isn't boy wonder running around in underwear.

>product placement
This is unavoidable.

you do realize Dick Donner's Superman was released during a shit time, right

>you make the hero kill to make a point
Or you do it just because its emotionally powerful and adds consequence to this battle.

>People go watch a Batman vs Superman movie to get Batman vs Superman.

Then the problem is the audience, not the film.

1:
Yeah, but letting children die? I mean, what the fuck. What a hero.

2:
I dont have a problem with him killing zod, I have a problem with him screaming afterwards and then brushing it off without the movie stabilishing he despises killing people.

3:
I think thats a matter of opinion but it gets way dark and way brutal, making the movie shift in tone aggresively

4:
its really fucking excessive

Because Jonathan thought it might be a good idea to introduce some high-minded discussion about society and civic responsibility into the mind of the invincible alien that happened to be his kid.

Exactly why it was bright and uplifting, you got your 5 happy Superman movies.
If Batman can have Adam West vs Killing Joke differences in tone, so can Superman.

Thing is, I don't give a fuck about religious imaginery.
Seriously, who cares?
Post all the examples of religious symbolism you can, I just don't care.
I want DC to make their own cinematic franchise, to see those heroes and their villains on the big screen.

I don't care even the slightest about what Zack is trying to do or what he has done.
You want to put religious imaginery?
Do it, as much as you want, just as long as you ensure the rest of the movie is fine.

A problem?
Is it a problem that people want to see a movie of Batman vs Superman when the movie is called Batman vs Superman?
Who the hell comes watch a superhero movie to watch recreations of random religious symbolism?

The rest of the movie is fine, it's probably the most entertaining superhero movie in terms of actual superhero shit

>Who the hell comes watch a superhero movie to watch recreations of random religious symbolism?

People who want a little more out of a film than flashing lights and colours.

This is supposed to be a serious movie that contains one scene where a crew gets into a bunch of dicks and fly's off into the sky. They don't even bother making it a cheeky scene where it's only vaguely a dick, it's a full on dick. This scene was engineered by the CGI team, approved by the director, and made it through editing with nobody saying "why are they flying away in giant dicks"

The Joker sewed a cell-phone bomb into a schizophrenic's body cavity and told him the "pretty colors would make the voices go away."

That's not exactly sunshine and puppy dogs.

>Yeah, but letting children die? I mean, what the fuck. What a hero.
But that was the entire point HE DIDN'T let them die and thought the notion was bullshit.
And Pa wasn't seriously suggesting it, he spit "mabye" out in desperation to get his point across.
If Clark and his Alien heritage is revealed to the world society could throw a shit fit that could cost thousands of lives, Genocides have happened over far smaller things.
The point of Pa's argument was to see the big fucking picture because their is far more lives at stake then the ones Clark saved on the bus.

>Who the hell comes watch a superhero movie to watch recreations of random religious symbolism?
No one. Hence why the symbolism takes up all of 2 scenes/moments in mos that make up no more then 2 of its 140 fucking minutes you exaggerative fuckers!

>People who want a little more out of a film than flashing lights and colours.
And this is what you get.
Random, pointless religious symbolism.

A movie about superheroes that focuses on making references to another, completely unrelated story by forcing mirroring between the two of them.

People like it when these movies are something more, like The Dark Knight, not when they just replace it with something absolutely no one cares about.

Someone will argue these are not dicks.

>No one. Hence why the symbolism takes up all of 2 scenes/moments in mos that make up no more then 2 of its 140 fucking minutes you exaggerative fuckers!

Which is funny because symbolism is all people talk about.
Hell, this one said that the 2 scenes of symbolism makes the movie be something more than flashing lights and colors.