Is anybody else critical against Democracy?

Is anybody else critical against Democracy?
Seeing Brexit and US elections made me a bit sceptical.
Maybe its better if we are ruled by a Technocracy. After all, experts can make way more competent decision than masses who have very little political knowledge and can be easily manipulated by populists.

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brexshit and that amerifat thing were all about their media, imo.
democracy isnt always problematic but media is.

I too like authoritarianism when it espouses my side of things. I don't say this ironically by the way. It's just that your technocracy would be the most unstable shithole to ever exist and you'd find after you got rid of culture and spirit total lethargy.

>experts

Who?
Who decides who the experts are?
That isn't going to be completely politically corrupt?
What's said of the "experts" of the past?
Did they turn out to be wise in the long run.
Regardless, it's still just a form of politics or maybe even more so ... religion.
How did we wind up with priests and shaman and all that?
"Hey this guy seems like he knows what to do".
The experts are bunch of stupid assholes too.

Speaking as country that had dictatorship from hell 1948 to 1989, no I am not. Only people who think this is good form of government are edgy teens. We're still recovering from it.

Isn't EU kind of technocracy? I know, technically speaking they are democratically elected, but in reality they are so far away from the election process that it doesn't really matter.
And I know that EU gets a lot of hate hear, but actually they do a lot of really good policies

scientists, university professors, nobel price winners, people like that
I mean, in every other part of life, we rely on the experience of experts, but in politics, uniformed people suddenly know the best

>anything but Athenian Democracy
>democracy
emoji_crying.jpg

>only rich landowners can vote
sounds like aristocracy to me, to be honest

Indeed, democracy is a very stupid idea

Humans are not equal and thus it is retarded to give them an equal vote.

Leftists are motivated by emotions whereas if we get to an objective truth - such as Jews being objectively harmful to society, Blacks contributing nothing, or that the races should be segregated we can build an ideal society.

Agree and support you, Germanbro.

This is an interesting one, the problem isn't democracy per se IMHO, but the lack of a principled constitutional order. Take separation of church and state, you[ve got everything from Sharia to creationists endangering what is a pretty straightforward and basic principle. People think exceptions may be reasonable and like to see their causes acomodated but it backfires because it creates double standards.

A good example is Christian democrats in Europe, something that would be illegal in my country (we fought two civil wars on separation of church and state) it all seemed to be working fine until now you'll be forced to accept Islamic parties which, no matter how moderate, will intrinsically seek to undermine Western liberalism. Politics and religion don't mix.

There's other examples but I think that's a good illustration of teh problem where you don't strictly adhere to the basic tenets of Western liberalism. Laws allowing for positive discrimination (undermining equality) against hate speech (underming freedom of expression) imposing censorhip/agendas on scientific research (Trump comes to mind) are all deviation from core values which should never be questioned by Western societies. People cannot vote to undermine constitutional order even if they're a majority.

You should read some books on democracy before assuming the position that it has somehow screwed us over when in reality democracy is rarely if ever applied where it really matters.

This.

representative and republican democracy was always about the mitigation of populous sentiments so that any "debate" would be done by the few

it has more to do with how those few make deals behind the scenes then what people know

Jews are objectively beneficial to society though.

Agree about the rest.

as much as people dislike to believe, politicians are experts in their field. It's not like the masses decides how to run their country, they choose a candidate with the most appealing program.

There's a reason they've been kicked out of every land they've inhabited.

And I doubt everyone conspired against them by coincidence.

tho politics is not about experts either. e.g. being ideological/nationalistic cant be politically an expert thing. its about an ideal. and being idealistic cant be either.

Religion and politics however are one and the same, you cannot separate them no matter what your constitution may say. Religious belief in of itself is political statement.

There's not enough democracy desu. imo people should have a direct say in every single public matter that affects them and their community. Hopefully technology will make this a feasible thing soon.

>blaming the victims
Nearly every non white group hates white people too. It doesn't mean whites are inherently evil or destructive to non white societies, it just means we're more successful and the lesser races resent us for that.

>Victims spanning thousands of years and numerous civilizations

You know what they say when someone complains about only encountering assholes...

>non whites
But they don't, at least not inherently.

Black, Asian and Arab nationalists don't hate nor disagree with European nationalists

Jews were tolerated in places like India and the US. Europeans were anti-Semitic because of Rome and Muslims are anti semtic because muh Muhammad says to hate the Jews. That's it.

You're fucking retarded if you don't think non whites aren't out to get us. They're literally waging war against us. They just shot up your country ffs.

Jews were disliked because they were insular group of people who said they were God's chosen people and live separate from rest of society. You can imagine why this cause butthurt.

I don't recall we ever had major problem with anti-Semitism here, but we never had many Jews in first place and all of them got snuffed in WWII.

>leftists
>only agree with freedom of speech and democracy when it suits them
As usual. Anti-fascists, fascists, commies, social democrats.. when will they learn?

Not according to our view, eg the written text in our constitution. Let's say you oppose contraception, you cannot argue it goes against your religious morality but in political debate must find different reasons (ethical, scientific, etc.) that are compatible with secular logic. So we had a well known right wing conservative (who we all knew was a devout catholic catering to his constituency) trying to argue condoms were bad for the environment and actually doing numbers to prove their impact on landfills to try and justify cutting funding for government programs. He was obviously ridiculed, if you can't make your point independent of the bible people who believe in something else shouldn't be forced to endure you having a say in their lives.

The principle has become threatened as of late (eg the Vatican has tried to have a say in some laws) but still holds and while we still hold it the principle of laicite remains protected. Does this mean we are not going to get cucks doing mental gymnastics to try and justify their religious beliefs? Of course not but it does mean they can't just use their values as an argument and that's the thing.

Won't work.

Democracy all the way, no matter how flawed it is. Anything else os even worse.

>Let's say you oppose contraception, you cannot argue it goes against your religious morality but in political debate must find different reasons (ethical, scientific, etc.) that are compatible with secular logic
That's fair I suppose. I notice that whenever you say you don't approve LGBT shit, first thing is SJWs say that you're homophobe only because some ancient book said so, when of course ignoring totally scientific reasons why this behavior is disgusting and dangerous.

>leftists are starting to negate their "democracy" they constantly defended because things they don't like happened.
GODDAMN YOU ARE CANCEROUS! your true face is totalitarism, you can't handle the other side but you love always calling other people nazis because things don't go in the way of your own interests.
YOU ARE THE FUCKING NAZIS! OR MORE! THE FUCKING SOVIET COCKSUCKERS!

>Technocracy
So like the EU?
No thanks. I prefer demcracy, it just needs better education against not only populism but also subversion, as the former is adressed the latter is lacking and leads to leftists retardation and foreign influences to paratize on the republic.
Also you can have a democracy just fine if the population has a strong identity and is homogenous, the swizz is still fucking awesome so is Denmark, Australia, Japan and Taiwan.
A single party fascism-democracy hybrid like in Singapore seems to do a supreme job tho for multiethnic states and makes them a viable alternative should everything go to shit here.

I agree. SJWs having shitstorm of butthurt because US elect president they don't like. Even if you don't happen to like Trump, American people clearly felt he was better choice than Hillary. Probably better for everyone since Hillary seemed determined for some reason to start nuclear war with Russia and get all of us killed.

It sucks to be on the receiving end of democracy, doesn't it

Leave it to the leaf to say the most retarded shit.

This. If you didn't realize by now that there is no actual democracy in the world, then you're a retard.
Actually iceland is the closer, maybe switzerland too, but the fact remain that a representative democracy is an oxymoron

It's not clear that he was a better choice than Hillary, he lost the popular vote but won the EC.

It's Bush all over again although Trump's win is legitimate. I would still rather go to war with Russia than be subservient to them for the next 8 years.

man, you are the reason i'm relieved trump is your president.

How are they placed in power?

>he lost the popular vote
I think it's normal to lose the popular votes when the areas who traditionnaly vote for democrats are more populated: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_population

if it was without that system, the next president always depended of California and New York's opinion and it would be unfair.

>I rather see millions dead than try to make make allies

But that's wrong. New York and California don't have enough votes to impose their rule on the rest of the country. The electoral college doesn't give representation to states like Rhode Island or Wyoming. All the electoral college does is make politicians pander to the swing states, and Florida and Ohio both have pretty large populations.

I guess you're happy about us being Russia's bitch?

Pretty much, I'm saying Trump isn't "America's Choice" because you need more than just the popular vote. America's Choice was the Republican Party, who themselves almost never supported Trump until they had no choice.

>2017
>still believe in Democracy
youtube.com/watch?v=LAg4FN_qWUI

>I rather see millions of russians dead than be russia's bitch

What's the video say? I don't speak chink.

>russians
>when america lost half a million to fucking farmers with outdated weapons

We declawed them and got'em working for us, and now Russia has done the same to us.

>russia's bitch
having an alliance with russia is being russia's bitch?
you know that the rivalry with russia make no sense anymore because they are not communist? you want the CIA continue to destroy other foreign nations just because "don't wanting to be a bitch"?????

it crack me up everytimes when i read that from lefties, they are literally using a redneck tier argument often used by people they considers "ignorant".

Russia is not trustworthy in least (believe me, we know this better than anyone) but at same time, Hillary really badly seemed like she wanted to start war and get all of Europe glassed in nuclear exchange.

Advantage: Russia ceases to exist and we can all feel 100% safe from next time they decide to "liberate" Eastern Europe from fascism.

Disadvantage: We also cease to exist and get reduced to radioactive crater

kek. We have never been russia's bitches nor we will be because poutine respects the liberty of the people to determine themselves, whereas you.. but we have been your bitch for 40 years or so now, and we're getting tired of it. fuck usa, fuck nato, fuck russia, independence for france. I guess you're still angry we didnt follow you to irak

>it's either be "friends" with Russia or war
>Russia invades all of its friends one they stop bring useful
I'll take the war, fuck Putin

>you want the CIA continue to destroy other foreign nations just because "don't wanting to be a bitch"?????

>considers "ignorant".

Russia supports Venezuela. Russia supports Iran. Russia supports Cuba. Russia supports pretty much any anti American nation with economic and military aid. All of these things are against the US.

I prefer democracy to technocracy.
Humans have the right to vote like morons.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Pretty much this, rather hit first than get hit first

you don't have to understand what he say
>be Taiwanese politican
>sing old Chinese rhyme, eat bento, clean trash, get half naked on a FUCKING CAMPAIGN SPEECH

Europes dependance on America made us weak as we were to coddled. We need the heat from russia to start manning up again or die. Our politicians will be forced to give our countries an image worth dying for.
dulce et decorum est pro patria mori must become viable again and theoretically we could have managed to stay a dangerous power if it werent for living to secure and good.

And why this cunts are anti-americans? maybe because america started the provocations first, and they are not really a menace anyway.
>Venezuela
afraid of america stealing their oil and they are right.
>Iran
Hate america because they are allies of Israel and because they contribute to create terrorism
>Cuba
Commies but actually irrelevant as fucks and recently they tried negotiations.

You seem all to be retarded barbarians wanting supremacy all over the world instead of peace.

Don't get absurd, mate.
We can befriend America or Russia depending of the context, but we can't alienate them both at the same time, it is stupid and dangerous.

You read something in my statement that isntt there. A group of countries being willing and able to get enough young males together to waste their lifes for the greater good if necessary is not contrary to keeping up good relations with both of them, as warmongering for the sake of posturing is neiter economically viable nor generally wanted by everyone with half a brain.

If we oppose them by merely becoming militarily self reliant though, then we must either accept or fate as irrelevant vassals or try to get the ball rolling one last time and achieve passive-sovereignity by taking risks.

>Venezuela
>afraid of america stealing their oil and they are right
Venezuela is a total shithole now where stores have empty shelves and entire middle class has emigrated. This looks remarkably like grocery store in Eastern Europe in 1970s, doesn't it?

Commies. Not even once.

Didn't watch the video, but where's the fault in this?

If people don't like him - they won't vote for him.

Have fun with your dead nations

Venezuela uses their oil money to buy votes from the poor in America. iirc they gave free heating oil to the poor in some cities. Or at least they used to before their economy went south.

There's literally nothing wrong with being allies of Israel. They're the only secular democracy in the region. Even Israeli Arabs are the freest, least oppressed Arabs in the region. Iran is controlled by radical Islamists. Are you really defending that?

Cuba shouldn't receive foreign aid or support until they release political prisoners and open up to democracy.

>muh western ideals
it's all a bunch of bullshit
America was founded on bullshit and the sooner it realizes that the better, and we can have a nation state

sounds fine

>subservient
Lmao kys

I'll be frank, I prefer to be USA's vassal than Germany's vassal, especially if you think (again) that you can take America and Russia in the same time.
UK already left the boat...
I start to think we should be next when I hear this kind of things.

>russia's bitch
Do you even know what the fuck you're talking about? Why are we not allowed to change out geopolitical policies into something more logical? Why do you want to perpetuate the war in syria?

Democracy doesn't work because (((they))) will just brainwash the electorate over several decades to do (((their))) bidding so anyway, you end up with tyranny. At least with Fascism you don't have to deal with all the leftist bullshit.

Hitler was right all along.

That's why he won the war.
Oh wait

He lost because he bit off more than he could chew.

That's the definition of fascism.

But college educated whites vote conservatively in the US. This "brainwashing" isn't very effective.

Can anything other than democracy exist in the modern world without heavy propaganda and likely military involvement?
Also a problem in many democracies is the fact that most media are controlled by certain parties, so people just lock onto a certain view because they are told that's the only right way.

Why are you thinking of vassalisation all the time?
An aggressive agenda for france, germany and poland to make more children and make wide use of geopolitical information and the importance of demographics concerning sovereignity in public media (pic related belongs in every school as mandatory lesson) , to ramp up patriotism and driving the message home that the current wealth is envied and not for granted while getting into serious nuclear deterence again (Everyone smiles but it also furthering research on nuclear missiles and protection of them, what the fuck are we doing??) would create a strong central european core able to keep some agency.

I dont have vassalisation in mind as no EU country alone can carry the whole continent on its back (The EU itself being incompetend at staying able to appear strong.) and a common army simply lacks the coordination and identity to seriously act on its own.

I simply want that the only countries in Europe that are able to provide some basic sovereignity for themselves and the small peoples like the balts and balkanese get into shape again. If nothing happens in the next 30 years we end as demographically utterly overaged economic prey for less benevolent powers. A society that is worth to shave your head for and go to war for does not implie the wish to dominate others. Something old europe is not able to since a long time anyway.

I think that minarchies with direct democracy are better. This way people are directly affected by the consequences of their votes.

The Swiss model seems to be working great.

I wish for the eternal german to rot in hell.

just not iohannis

This. Fucking millennials

> His "country" is ruled by a monarchy

" Democracy is the best form of government

As democracy means rule of people ... That is of the people for the people and by the people. Democracy is a form of government in which all eligible citizens participate equally—either directly or through elected representatives. Democracy is the best form of government simply because no other form of government is known to work well. Democracy may have its flaws but all in all it works very fluidly. Some plus points of having a democratic form of government:-
1. Freedom
2. Democracy represents the views and notions of all the citizens of the country, whether majorities or minorities.
3. It helps in solving conflicts and quarrels in a better way.
4. It provides a dignity to the people.
5. Democracy allows various people to rule the country through the representatives.
6. It also allows people to express themselves clearly and freely.
7. It Respects & promotes Human Rights
8. In this form of government all people are equal before the law.
9. Democracy is the only form of government where the people can voice their opinion.
10. In my view there is no other alternative form of government better than a democracy. "
Source: Debate.org

The important thing is, for a correctly work of Democracy, all people must be well-educated. Otherwise, politicians can take advantage of the situation. That usually happens in Latin America countries.

(((experts)))

>german hates democracy
Not again, please

but when it is actually applied where it matters, it does screw us over because your average citizen has no political education (see Brexit)

democracy is a meme word, it doesnt exist and never did

>It's another "democracy has failed us" when a political side doesn't get what they want episode

Brexit was a victory for democracy you fucking cuck

That's kinda what happens when you base your entire economy around one commodity and then global prices drop.
The country's chief export is now a weeaboo visual novel about the shitty dystopia of NotCaracas.

You don't know what a constitutional monarchy is do you

Without democracy the State is Ruled by the first despotic group that takes over the military, through subversion or straight up coup.

The Alternative to Trump and Brexit is Hitler or Stalin. A more authoritarian European technocracy lead by germany would possibly end up in civil war as well if the extremes felt like they could never achieve any meaningful change through a legal process. The alternative to that would be to allow extreme political movements from revolting or attempt to avoid it for a while by using censorship and supressing information and alternative political views from the public.

Tl;dr, it's either Trump or 1984 pal, take your pick

>if the extremes felt like they could never achieve any meaningful change through a legal process
There are feelings like this for our current system, though. As the OP said, he's feeling disillusioned with the democratic system and he's not alone. Arguably, the immense support for Trump and Sanders stemmed from similar emotions or at the very least, distrust for mainstream democracy.

There are riots every other week, there's violence every other week, and both of them feel more acceptable than they did a decade ago. The cynic in me says civil war will happen either way.

We're gonna end up in civil war anyway between the Trumpist People's National Army and the Woke Militia :fire: :fire: :fire: and unfortunately one side is the most armed civilians in the world with military backing and the other is at best a bunch of ancom mall ninjas with hoodrat auxiliaries.

>The cynic in me says civil war will happen either way
>We're gonna end up in civil war anyway between the Trumpist People's National Army and the Woke Militia
Because of a couple of riots? how many people died so far? That's right, none. If people start shooting each other, then you have a revolt. If the military gets involved and takes sides, then you have a civil war but that's incredibly unlikely.

In fact, if you take Colombia as an example, shit like this can actually just as well stabilize your country's democracy. All of Latin America went through a lefty populist period in the 80's 90's and 2000's, but colombia stayed pretty center-right in the last few decades. You know why? FARC

FARC is basically antifa gone pseudo-revolutionary. So because their progressive hard left radicalized, the common people associates them with violent terrorists. So, moderate left-leaning parties have a hard time existing without being associated with the FARC. you see, most people are moderates, and they don't want anything to do with radicals.

If either Tea-Party or Trumpist militia or whatever radicalizes, they will be crushed by the military and the Democrats will win for decades. If Antifa goes full retarded with the protests and start behaving like revolutionaries, same thing happens and Barron Trump will be your President in 30 years. Democracies in Nation States are more resiliant than you give them credit

>Because of a couple of riots?
Nah, not just that. The normalization of violence against people you agree with politically, it's become especially strong. There was some actor just the other day who elected for punching Trump supporters in the face, which is as clear cut as you can get. Then there are all the people who have been attacked or assaulted on the street, that mentally disabled kid who was kidnapped by four black people and literally tortured because he voted Trump. I'm sure there's plenty of discrimination going the other way, too.

>If Antifa goes full retarded with the protests and start behaving like revolutionaries
I think the idea would be to avoid coming to this point, if at all possible.

Everybody is agaisnt democracy when the party they dont like wins, it happens literally everywhere

>If Antifa goes full retarded with the protests and start behaving like revolutionaries
>I think the idea would be to avoid coming to this point, if at all possible.
If Trump doesn't make concessions, it's pretty much guaranteed to rile people up over the course of 4 years. You can't underestimate how self-righteous these people are. Of course, he can eventually disenfranchise his base if he does, even if they think he's the second coming of Christ now.
I don't think he or his administration is smart enough or even willing to pull off a balancing act.

>If Trump doesn't make concessions
>I don't think he or his administration is smart enough or even willing to pull off a balancing act.
I don't think so either, he was elected to be a man who can get things done. If he makes concessions or tries to balance the sides, then he'll just become the mainstream politician that so many people were against.

>he can eventually disenfranchise his base
Do you think so? My guess would be they're so starved for anything after 8 years of Obama that the "Muslim ban" won their hearts, in the first week.

People will just have to accept this right-wing populist period we're going through. The alternative is much worse. I don't even think Trump will be that radical, but it seems like their supporters are extremely traumatized by the drastic change with someone like Trump in the white house, which isn't too different from how the conservatives reacted with Obama (with the Tea-party, etc), and they don't realise they are actually weakening themselvfes in the democratic game by scaring away moderates. Although, this time it seems more violent.

Apparently, the far-left is feeling less guilty because they think that they are literally fighting evil nazis. Maybe they'll intimidade stormfront or Sup Forums types from manifesting themselves, but if the opposite happens it will be quite tragic. But interestingly, if Sup Forums is smart they'll keep trolling antifa and taunting them into punching people, while never fighting back in the same terms. Antifa will feel good about themselves and about normalizing this kind of violence, but that will bite them in the ass later

Fucking this holy shit you couldn't be more right. I can't stand this whole political media bullshit telling everyone how to think. I still think trump is better than Hillary but in the case of the U.S. election neither candidate was really good.

If he concedes on the muslim ban, that's a huge reneg that will anger Sup Forumsacks. and could cost him in the long run especially if the wall turns out terrible (it will), making him 0-2 on immigration. If he doesn't concede, they just get angrier and angier.
The best outcome is making minor adjustments like to let in green card holders to appease moderates. I think if there
>while never fighting back in the same terms
tell that to mosque shooter. Yeah it's Canada, but whether or not the ban stays, more shit like that is to be expected

>People will just have to accept this right-wing populist period we're going through
It's a hard pill to swallow, clearly. The Women's March a week ago had nearly 5 million people worldwide showing their dissatisfaction with Trump and his proposed policies. I think it's safe to say that we can expect more demonstrations in the future.

>Apparently, the far-left
I generally make a clarification between far-left and what modern liberals are today. I think people on the far-left are looking to impose heavy changes to society in every sense: political, economic, etc. So Communists, for example, are far-left because their demands literally require a revolution. Modern liberals may act crazily, but their demands are still very basic. Even Sanders was too 'extreme' for most of them, I feel.

>is feeling less guilty because they think that they are literally fighting evil nazis
That's pretty horrific though, don't you think? The fact that Trump and his supporters have been demonized to a Nazi standard and that any action against them, no mater how extreme, is justified.

>Maybe they'll intimidade stormfront or Sup Forums types from manifesting themselves
I think they already have. Those people don't meet up in real life (as far as I'm aware), oddly the conservatives and the fascists are making better use of technology to keep themselves discrete.