Who's your pick for most overrated and most underrated jazz artist?

Who's your pick for most overrated and most underrated jazz artist?

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Overrated - that Fukui guy

Underrated - Jimmy Giuffre

all of them

lol

>underrated
Herbie Nichols, Lee Konitz, Chico Hamilton, Joe Chambers, Booker Ervin, Jaki Byard, Charles Tolliver, Billy Hart, Dave Ballou, Luis Perdomo, Tony Malaby, Dave Scott, George Colligan, David Kikoski

>overrated
Peter Brotzmann, Pharaoh Sanders, Keith Jarrett, Ron Carter, Joshua Redman, Mats Gustafson, William Parker, Matana Roberts

>Pharaoh Sanders
>overrated

Extremely overrated.

>Overrated - that Fukui guy
people only like him because of the aesthetic cover art

also because it's babbys first modal jazz that they get from youtube recs

Overrated by whom? This board? I'm sure plenty of people here don't listen to Mats Gustafsson

I'm pretty sure a good portion of Sup Forums rates albums based as much on cover art as they do on the music

>I'm sure plenty of people here don't listen to Mats Gustafsson
That's beside the point. The point is that I think the number who do like him is more than what he deserves based on his musical output.

this

Overrated: Wayne Shorter, Keith Jarrett, Andrew Hill, Herbie Hancock, Anthony Braxton

Underrated: Sonny Sharrock, Roland Kirk, Don Cherry, Art Ensemble of Chicago

William Parker is underrated imo

>Overrated
>Herbie Hancock

True that. So disappointed when I first heard Scenery.

>Sonny Sharrock
You know what's up! There's a reason I usually shill him in chart and jazz threads. Anyone that's in this topic, at least check out

Ask The Ages
Space Ghost Coast To Coast soundtrack

from him

I knew herbieanon would come to defend him. He's better as a r&b/funk musician then a Jazz musician.

>....TFW you're completely right about that

>He's better as a r&b/funk musician then a Jazz musician.
What are you talking about, Maiden Voyage is his best by far. But then, I guess even that would still be better than pleb RnB/Funk

>He's better as a r&b/funk musician then a Jazz musician
It's bad enough that someone thinks this

let alone someone who is ostensibly an expert on Herbie Hancock

>Herbie Hancock expert
>hasn't heard the albums and live recordings with Miles
kek

He made an incredible spiritual jazz album with his wife in 1969, Black Woman. It then flew right under the radar and nobody listened to it until later in his life, when he met Bill Laswell who started producing his albums and formed the band Last Exit. Then in the 90's Ask the Ages became a hit with the help of Pharoah Sanders and Elvin Jones and become the most successful album of his career. And I still don't understand how he on Space Ghost.

over: "mild" davis

under: raymond scott, sonny sharrock

Suprised this thread isn't full of people saying Miles is overrated. The genius in Miles ins't his own talent but him bring together the best players in the world for his albums. And he was constantly pushing jazz forward to new styles to keep it fresh, he refused to let it die when rock took over. He was ever supposed to make an album with Hendrix before he died.

Nice underrated list. Only heard of a few of these.

underrated: Ahmad Jamal, Bobby Hutcherson

agreed; miles always seemed like forced-meme trane as he went on, imo. meanwhile sharrock evolved pretty nicely outward from the tightly compressed avant stuff in the 60s and let it become rock and all sorts of other in between things.

>forced-meme trane
what does that mean

>overrated
Bill Evans, Sun Ra, Alex Sipigain, Zorn, Dave Holland, Mingus, Herbie Hancock, Chris Potter, Grant Green
>underrated
Eberhard Weber, Charles Lloyd, David Murray, Larry Young, Miroslav Vitous, Tony Williams (at least his solo stuff), John Escreet

this is based on what I see on Sup Forums at least

AKA I don't like this artist

>underrated: Ahmad Jamal
This

>over: "mild" davis
True that, I could never get into his post-50s stuff aside from On the Corner

>Pharaoh Sanders
>Ron Carter
wew get a load of this guy

>Sun Ra
I will fight you right now. Sound of Joy and Planet Earth/Low Ways are some of the best jazz fucking out there.

bill evans is really fucking good though. and so is mingus. john zorn is dope as fuck too, my teacher has played drums for him for a few tours. plebs everywhere

Overrated = Miles Davis

I can't think of one melody that makes logical sense. It's all just jazz. He didn't even chop out.

Underrated = Tony Williams

He was so much better than all the other drummers back then it's not even funny.

I'll do another.

Overrated = Frank Zappa

Like Miles Davis, Frank's band mates made him what he is. Zappa is light years behind most guitar player virtuosos. He had a unique sense of melody, but his sloppiness destroyed any hope he could ever have at being enjoyable to listen to.

Underrated = John Coltrane

Not only do I think he deserves the title of best saxophone player of all time, I think as a musician, he deserves to be ranked up there with Chopin, Liszt, Tchaikovsky, and all the other great composers of our planet. Just listen to it. Any of it. It's insanely good. The energy is perfect.

Literally fuck all of you. He sounds like Bill Evans. Not innovative or daring, but it's good music. Early Summer is also a quality original.

Would not call Gustafson overrated, honestly, a lot of his masterial is underlooked.
Also, that overrated list is missing a lot of names.

UNDERRATED: The Rippingtons

OVERRATED: WPV

I'm seriously convinced you just pulled names out of a hat and tossed them into one category or the other.

People shit on miles for his playing but I think his playing really fit the music well, especially with the second quintet. Tony is my favorite drummer of all time, and many great drummers out in the world agree, tony is the man. it's mostly the plebs who can't wrap their heads around his style or how he innovated the way we think of playing time through out the 60s 70s and 80s that don't give him the credit he deserves because lol metal bro, it' so technical.

Solid list with some questionable choices.

John Coltrane is overrated, while he did release some gems, such as The Olatunji Concert. He obscured the works of others which deserved much more attention than him.
Also, first: Some of Zappa's material with his group, The Mothers of Invention, is absolutely genius, second:
>Zappa
>Jazz
He was a Rock artist that incorporated elements of Jazz into his music, not a Jazz artist that incorporated elements of Rock into his music.

>Overrated = Frank Zappa
I used to think this. But I realized I was wrong. He may not have been nearly as well-rounded a musician as the vast majority of the people he had backing him, but that's because he intentionally hired the highest caliber players. I think they made him look worse than he actually was. And he may not have been able to play over changes, but he wasn't really a jazz musician to begin with. Nevertheless, he was always a higher-end player in the rock/pop world (which is where he should be placed) with a great bluesy feel coupled with articulate phrasing. Over the years his style further matured into one of the most interesting and unique in rock music (not jazz). Listen to this album if you don't believe me:
youtu.be/C2_2SQFFYfc

Also whatever he may have lacked as a guitar player he sure as hell made up for as a composer and bandleader.

also
>Underrated = John Coltrane
Yeah, not like everybody and their mother knows and appreciates Coltrane

>People shit on miles for his playing but I think his playing really fit the music well, especially with the second quintet
Yeah he tended to have an economical 'less is more' approach. I could see both sides of the argument. On the one hand, a vast majority of his band members (especially the second great quintet) were superior to him on their respective instruments. On the other hand, I dig his playing on all his landmark recordings. I think his generally restrained and deliberate style exhibits good taste. He's wasn't virtuosic or particularly difficult to digest, but he played with good taste. Speaking of which, the fact that his catalog spans so many years and different flavors of jazz (often being an early trendsetter in said styles to boot), and that so many giants of jazz have passed through his bands is demonstrative of his tasteful and forward-thinking sensibilies as a composer/bandleader too.

>Dave Holland and Bill Evans are overrated
>Charles Lloyd is underrated

What?

Also, why are Chopping, Lisp, and Chai Latte your go-to's in terms of great composition? Or was the composers clause separate, and you were just talking about them as virtuosi?

what do you guys think of this? also anyone got more like this?

>he sounds like Bill Evans

Woah now. Come on man.

>Most overrated

Miles Davis, Chick Corea

>Most underrated

Ornette Coleman, Sun Ra

bump

terrible taste m8

I consider myself a Sun Ra fan but I'll even admit that he is vastly overrated.

>overrated:t pat metheny, bill evans, stanley clarke, freddie hubbard

>underrated: jim hall, paul desmond, gabor szabo, cannonball adderley, sarah vaughn, helen merril, kenny burrell