I am of the view that language will only be learnt with a necessity. When you are native at the lingua franca...

I am of the view that language will only be learnt with a necessity. When you are native at the lingua franca, there is little reason to waste your time learning anything else.
Everyone you encounter will speak your language unless you travel, and if you do travel, most will prefer to speak English with you unless your grasp of their first language is superior to their grasp of English. And to that extent most people who don't speak English have greater incentive to learn it than an Anglo has to learn German, French or Spanish.

The only exception is a young child, who can learn often without any effort on their behalf. It's a tragedy when you hear of immigrants not teaching and using their first languages with their children, for example.

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I gave up to be honest.
Although I think there are languages that are easier to grasp for an anglo.
I accidentally can read a little French and Swedish without any study.

>The only exception is a young child, who can learn often without any effort on their behalf.
Ageist suka.

You have to travel.

Here, unless it's someone's business to work with tourists or they have worked abroad. Then the languages skills are very weak.

If you are an English native and you work in a non-English speaking country. Then you would have to learn the local language to survive.

Learning a language in a vacuum is impossible, which probably explains why you make no progress with learning in an English speaking country.

It's still a good thing to learn new languages because it widens your perspectives and teaches you about mankind.

>If you are an English native and you work in a non-English speaking country. Then you would have to learn the local language to survive.

Nope, most brits don't emmigrate and then look for work. They get sent to a non english speaking country by their company, which means they still use english. You can quite comfortably live in a place without speaking the language

The opposite is true with poles. They move to a country clueless and end up cleaning toilets. This means they have to be able to interact in english or any other language to some level

this is ridiculous and rude kurwo

Learning stuff broadens the mind.

Your company may pay your salary but you need to interact with regular people still.

>cleaning toilets

Maybe this generation, not the coming ones. :)

You will be second class citizens in your own country in no time.

English has a huge downside though. It's primitive and cold emotionally.

Sorry it is true

Not really, you need to buy groceries, pay bills and tax. That's about it. The company also provides you with assistance. Do toilet cleaners also get this assistance? No, because the job is for poor uneducated people

>kraut parents
>kraut citizenship
>they made sure that i didn't learn any german
>if i started learning now i would always sound like a foreigner

You can git gud amigo. It's all about setting clear goals and staying motivated.

Professional translator from seven languages into English here. I disagree. Most of them I learned just for fun initially, but besides giving me access to a broader range of jobs, I have access to so much information and culture that I wouldn't otherwise—foreign news media, books, music, etc. It's great.

>groceries

All of that is in the local language. That's not factoring in things like restaurants, cafes, bars and so on.

>bills/tax

You need to use accountants, lawyers, doctors and other people who speak the local language.

>assistance

They don't give you a 24 hour interpreter who follows you around every day. They will give you someone who you can direct any issues to.

You really don't know anything about this stuff so you should shut the fuck up before you look like any more of an idiot.

Why are Australians so insufferable ?

>widens your perspective
>broadens the mind
Secondary languages are useless unless you achieve at least some fluency at them, but that takes a lot of effort, particularly for someone who has never studied a language before, and as the pole said, a majority of people can't do that in a vacuum.

The same work could be put into something else and your efforts would be a lot better spent. Studying history, for example. Particularly for an English speaker, for whom a significant portion of materials are available in translated form.

How do you actually learn a language? I can speak 2 from birth but would have no idea going about learning one apart from just using it. Additionally, technical and business speak can be a lot different to regular interaction in a few languages, can you cope with them?

No reason you can't do both. Renaissance man, dude.

I like Australians. I can't stand the self-loathing ones and the wannabe Brits though. They are such losers. Every conversation is just bashing Australia and talking about how they were cheated by their country.

Don't listen to that deluded ethnocentric brit. He's probably even monolingual.

>How do you actually learn a language?
My approach is pretty rigorous. I start off learning pronunciation and enough grammar rules to at least figure out the function of words in a sentence, and then I sit down and try to read what language teachers call "authentic texts" from the get-go, i.e. texts not written for learners. It's hard initially because there's so much to look up, but trying to read at a higher level and just generally use the language as much as possible from the beginning produces better results for me, because I'm not just learning lists of words in order to pass a test. The material has immediate relevance.

>Additionally, technical and business speak can be a lot different to regular interaction in a few languages, can you cope with them?
It takes some adjusting to, but it's not impossible. You just have to take the time to do your research on the terminology, in both languages (if you're not already (e.g.) a lawyer). After you work with some of those texts, they get easier, because it's the same terms and phrasings over and over.

Groceries require no language at all. They scan your items and point to the number on the till. Same is for restaurants, just point to a random thing on menu.

Again, they give you help to pay bills, not a 24 hour interpreter as you seem to think people need.

It's all well and good coming from the perspective of a toilet cleaner that actually has to interact with customers, employers etc But for more educated/normal jobs this simply isn't the case for the vast majority of people. My family lived in Taiwan for 3 years without knowing a single word of chinese. There's really not any need to project your biterness over having to learn a language because of your occupation and country of origin. It's unhelpful to the conversation

>wanting to learn some useless wog language when you already speak the world's objectively greatest language

>being stupid

You're the worst kind of brit

Is your name a reference to the Tarkan song, by any chance?

>living in melbourne

Ahmed-tier mentality right there

I guess i just have no motivation, which partly stems from having no real need to learn another one. It's pretty interested that a pretty much bilingual person like me couldn't pick up french at school to save my life. Think i got an ungraded (U) result for my high school tests

Originally, like 10 years ago yeah

Japan begs to differ

Ahmeds have a better grasp of english than brits do of any other language. However, that's slowly changing. They're living in larger self contained neighbourhoods with no need for english, they are hired by ahmeds, customers are mostly ahmeds. They're beginning not to need it

>no language for shopping or restaurants
>bills are sorted out by the company and they really give a shit that your taxes are done correctly

You can't be saying this with a straight face.

>more educated/normal jobs

If anything, you need more language skills with these jobs as you are dealing with local clients who would want you to speak their local language with them in addition with English for the home office.

>lived in taiwan for 3 years without knowing the language

I have to call BS on that one.

I don't really know why you are so upset. If you don't want to learn a language or experience other cultures, then don't. You are never forced to take a role abroad.

>professional translator
That plays a big part in it.
I think the only reason people don't learn is because they don't have any interest or need to learn… which was my whole point.

Vague shit like "expand your cultural whatverthefuck" doesn't translate into tangible motivation, and that is often the only type of reasoning people ever give for learning a language.

This is part of why I don't support mandatory foreign language education. The classes have too many students in them which encourages a one-size-fits-all approach instead of giving a smaller number of students an individualized experience. On top of that, 90% of the students are there to get a requirement out of the way, which means they're going to put forth the minimum effort to get whatever grade they want, memorize some vocabulary lists, spit them back out on a test, forget it all, and never use it.

>I have to call BS on that one.
As much as he is a cunt, there are many Anglo expats in HK, Taiwan and Singapore

I should mention that the thought of becoming a translator didn't even occur to me until after I had learned several languages. It started off as a fun project, and translating came about as a way to get paid for the effort I had put into my project.

>I think the only reason people don't learn is because they don't have any interest or need to learn
Yes. See for why I don't support mandatory language classes.

>Vague shit like "expand your cultural whatverthefuck" doesn't translate into tangible motivation, and that is often the only type of reasoning people ever give for learning a language.

Expanding your cultural whateverthefuck can be very rewarding, but the effort it takes to get to that point also means that most people don't understand that benefit until they can actively experience it themselves.

I learned English in a month, it's so easy.

Why would they not care that you function properly in the country? If you don't pay taxes you go to jail, they then have to pay all the expensive costs to relocate and hire other people. It's clear you have never worked for a multinational company before. I doubt there are many multinational toilet cleaning companies either

Nope, the locals do all the interacting with customers. The white people are the literal brains behind the whole operation. When the top managers do meet customers, they have locals interpreting for them

Also lived in Japan, can't speak Japanese. As well as Singapore, although they are native english speakers.

that's not what I meant at all
living in a foreign country (even short-term) and not even bothering to grasp at least basics of the local language (no, no one expects you to get fluent after 3 months) is super fucking arrogant

not to mention that you can still get into situations where English is simply not enough
what are you going to do then?

>is super fucking arrogant
Who cares, it's what happens. Reality.

See above posts about assistance.

HK and Singapore I would have believed but not Taiwan.

What are you trying to convince me of? If you don't want to work abroad, then don't. It's pretty simple.

I'm sure that management wouldn't force someone against their will to work abroad or even offer it unless you had an interest in the country or culture, and even if they did you have the option to quit.

>locals do all of the interacting with customers

If you are working for a multinational, you don't have customers you have clients.

Using an interpreter is a really bad look. It makes you look completely lazy and disinterested.

As a senior manager, by the way, the way you justify your big salary is by bringing in new business by pitching to clients and doing product development with clients. That actually requires understanding companies and being able to talk to people natively.

Back office sperg work doesn't get sent abroad.

For children, language shouldn't be taught as a topic, but provided as an environment. Particularly in the case of younger children.

If you consider how poorly language was taught when I was a student in High School:
It was two hours a week.
The classroom had only one speaker of German (the teacher).
She would speak maybe a combined five minutes of German per lesson.
We would refer to a book with at most a handful of simple German sentences.
This all culminated in simple tests with often fewer than ten questions.

In the entire year, I would have been subjected to at most two or three hours of actual language.
It is no surprise that I for all intents and purposes learnt nothing.

The only language programme that did work, was an experimental one that one local school did about the same time.
They did an entire day each week and were allowed to do anything they wished in the time, so long as they only used French. The room was also absent of as many English materials as possible.
Apparently the students ended up speaking French well, although the programme cost quite a lot.

remember this next time you will be whining about Poles in UK not speaking English
>b-but that's different!!!
no, you are literally the same and the fact that you work a white collar job doesn't change anything

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Sinply stating that learning languages is not needed for most brits.

Clients and customers are used interchangeably. With clients having the added connotation of recieving services, not goods. So, wrong there.

No you don't seem to understand how businesses organise. Every manager does not need to pitch. This unsurprisingly is the job of the 'sales' manager, or even director.

>although the programme cost quite a lot
Which is a big reason you don't see more of this. More rigorous programs using the kind of techniques I do are also pretty rare in schools because they take a lot of dedication from everyone involved. If you went to a university using the typical format with a textbook, teacher, and 30 students and replaced it with that, 3/4 of them would probably drop the class in a week because it's "too hard". The university will then cut the program because there aren't enough students passing it.

Why would i whine about poles? If they can't speak english well they don't get as many jobs. It's up to them to learn it. Same can't be said for british expats.

>simply stating that learning language is not needed for most brits

Sure. Learning English isn't needed for most Poles unless they want to work in the UK.

>used interchangably

I stand corrected. I wrongly thought that you were talking about some white collar job which is what most foreigners are sent abroad to do in multinationals.

>every manager does not need to pitch

What kind of companies have you worked for?

In consultancy, if you aren't winning clients through pitching then you will be fired.

At one point there was early talk about rolling it out to every public school in the state, working on the thought that it would scale reasonably well (each staff set could work at five different schools or classes in a week) and that the kids would love the opportunity to do whatever they want for an entire day.
Then we had a change of government and it was all scrapped.

>It's up to them to learn it. Same can't be said for british expats.
same can't be said for anyone who speaks English decently

the difference is that most people try to learn at least some phrases/basic grammar when they work/live abroad, whether it's out of curiosity or they just find it respectful towards locals

you apparently have no grasp of this concept (from my experience most UK expats don't, although I know two who actually do) of "respect" for the locals, so instead of acting like a good guest, you act like an arrogant asshole expecting foreigners to speak your language in their country

did I make myself clear enough? you seem a bit thick

>unless they want to work in the UK.
There we go, now you agree with me. Great to see we are getting somewhere

Me personally? Just the one, network rail. I mostly just look at controlling cashflow and other ways to fund projects, along with looking at the risks associated.

Do i expect them to learn english? Of course not, i would not expect myself to learn polish. Do i need to learn the other language? Again, no, i had no need to.

Essentially it's all about need. Someone like you would need to.

Don't bother, honestly.

His perspective is so narrow he thinks participating in a society is about being a good corporate cuck and buying groceries.

He doesn't mind missing out on the things that make being in a foreign country interesting.

>in sweden
>try to learn some swedish
>get to a point where i'm reasonable, but i wouldn't consider myself to "know the language"
>everyone keeps trying to speak english
jävlafan

People will do this to you in many other cultures, too, if you don't look like one of them. My family had a garage sale a few years back, and I had to handle all the Spanish-speaking customers. I don't look like I speak Spanish, so a lot of them tried to speak English to me at first, even though their English was bad. They seemed relieved when they realized that I was actually fluent in Spanish, not just some guy who had taken a year of it in school.

Granted, it's a bit different in Sweden. Most Swedes who don't speak at least decent English are older people who didn't have mandatory English in school.

stop posting

t. RASHEED
I'd take a pole over you any day

it really seems like I'm talking to a brick wall here

you don't expect them to learn English but you expect them to SPEAK IT
do you understand? do you understand that expecting them to speak English in their home country only because of your ignorance/lazines is disrespectful?

>need
you truly don't
and neither do I, I only speak English because it's world-wide lingua franca and as such is taught in school (and when I went to school it wasn't even mandatory)
that being said, it could go my whole life speaking only Czech without a problem

however, when I go abroad (even on vacation, but especially for longer periods of time) I still try to learn at least some basic phrases/vocabulary to use when I interact with locals, because I can appreciate when tourists/expats do so here

it's not about need, it's about being a respectful person, but I guess this concept is unknown to you

*laziness
shameful display

tfw i only learn constructed languages because they're vastly more interesting yet no more useless for me than natural languages
im thinking of learning Hungarian lads

>learning hungarian

I tried this. The biggest problem you are going to have is the lack of useful materials.

You would be better off learning a Slavic language, IMO.

I think not expecting them to learn english by default means i don't expect them to speak it.

Good for you, learning a couple of phrases really shows your thirst for cultural knowledge. How enlightened of you to do this. Although utterly pointless.

it seems interesting and it's potentially useful. My grandfather is Hungarian so if I ever decide to visit relatives there, I guess I can talk to them in their language (or try to). Also I just like it on it's own merits. It doesn't seem too hard.

As bad as it seems, OP is right. Learning a language is not difficult, the problem is maintaining it. Like he explained even if he learned another language people would probably prefer speaking to him in english. So he would have no chance to practice his newly acquired language. Also, all the relevant media is in english anyway. So what is the point? The only way to reach a high level of fluency in any language is out of necessity, be it for that hobby you are passionate about or for being able to live among the natives, otherwise you won't be getting exposure and will end up forgetting much of it, basically wasting all the time you put to learn it in the first place.

People say chinese, arabic, whatever is hard, of course it is, we don't need it as much as english. English only seems '' easy'' because we are exposed so much to it that it is impossible not to learn. The day our chinese overlords take over, mandarim will be as easy as english.

>conveniently leaving out the part when I mentioned speaking English in their country
top

>some more butthurt spewing
I don't do it for the sake of "cultural knowledge" or whatever, I do it because it's a nice thing to do and I can appreciate when tourists do it here
it's called being respectful, but again, this concept probably doesn't say much to you
you can google it tho, it will blow your mind

Meanwhile, in Australia.

youtube.com/watch?v=R2uZyTm_w0M

English in their own country? I already covered this point. I don't expect myself to learn any other language in my own country, nor would i expect others.

Ah yes, looking at a phrase book and memorising a few words. Very nice, very useful, very cultured.

it doesn't matter that they learn English, they don't do it so that your noble ass can come to their country
I already said, it's the part when you require them to SPEAK ENGLISH in THEIR HOME COUNRTY (I capitalized it because it seems that you have some reading issues) that is cringy and makes you look like an ass

>some more butthurt spewing while completely disregarding what I said
k

You bring up speaking english in another country, and now say it doesn't matter. Okay.

For the third time, i don't expect them to learn english in any country.

>English only seems '' easy'' because we are exposed so much to it that it is impossible not to learn
That's all language learning is.
Exposure.

Most speakers learn through exposure, rather than active learning.
The amount of Spanish that is yankee language and culture means that many American speakers could probably communicate simply in Spanish.


You keep looking at it as "foreigner expects someone to speak their language". This would be the case for a German expecting someone in Eastern Europe to speak German, but it doesn't apply to English Speakers. English is the lingua franca. It's not simply another language.
It's more a case of "foreigner expects someone to speak the generally excepted universal language, which also happens to be their own language".

There is a whole world behind a language.

sure, you only expect them to speak it
or how are you going to communicate? by pointing at things and making sounds?

it's not about that, it's about "foreigner comes to my country and straight out refuses to learn even the very basics of grammar and vocabulary thus forcing me to speak his language"
yes I agree that this is somehow speacial case due to English being lingua franca, but the point still stands

That's the thing though.
I don't see the problem with expecting people to speak the lingua franca. Particularly when one is as clearly defined as English is in Europe.

It doesn't seem unreasonable that a Spaniard or a Frenchman should be able to speak English in the Czech Republic, nor should it that an Englishman should be able to speak English there as well.

That being said, I would probably try to learn a local language if I was to go overseas. Not out of any respect or anything, but because it'd probably be the only excuse I could find for using a two year working holiday visa.

>It doesn't seem unreasonable that a Spaniard or a Frenchman should be able to speak English in the Czech Republic, nor should it that an Englishman should be able to speak English there as well.
I agree, I also appreciate when people speak English when I go abroad

the problem is when you have some people who straight out refuse to learn the local language (even after living in the country for a long time) because lol English is enough
disrespectfulness (jesus, is that even a word?) aside, you can get into many situations e.g. post office, any kind of state administrative office, foreign police (I wish I was kidding) where the person behind the desk simply doesn't speak English, so knowing at least the basics can save you (and your company, interpreter, partner, whatever) a lot of trouble and time

> Not out of any respect or anything
it's not just about the respect but also about what mentioned, you are missing out a lot if you only speak English/ live in your expat bubble

>young child, who can learn often without any effort on their behalf

You cannot prove that it is without any effort.

that's simply not how it works
you don't learn a language because you have to
you learn it because you use it
I could have not learned english if I stayed away from anglo literature, movies and music
many people do exactly that, most in fact
it's a choice, not an outside imposition

We don't know enough about the brain to explain it, but there does exist that studies have proven it.

When taught at a young enough age (with the period generally considered to end between 4-7), children will acquire as many languages as you can throw at them.

The children of clever immigrants here will only use their native language at home. These children will know this language as their first language. The children will then learn English through kindergarten and interaction with other children and wider society. This will be for all intents and purposes their "second first language".

This doesn't require any conscious effort, because children of that age aren't capable of such learning yet.
You don't see a kindergartener going through vocab cards and grammar readers. The mind is temporarily wired to do all the heavy lifting for you. Without this, you would never learn a first language.

Another important point of difference is that most who learnt at that age will speak both of their languages better than most older learners who have 'actively' learnt for years. In many cases without distinct accents.

>I could have not learned english if I stayed away from anglo literature, movies and music
That isn't nearly as easy as you make it sound.
I'd happily bet $100 that I could grab a radio most world cities and find at least three radio stations on FM playing English music at any given time. Even if the stations themselves otherwise transmit continuity in non-English languages.
Just look at ABBA. They are seen by the world as the quintessentially Swedish band, but all of their combined Swedish releases fit onto a single CD (ABBA på Svenska) which is dwarfed by their English releases (eight albums and countless singles).

That's not to say that learning English doesn't take effort, but there is more incentive to learn it, and almost infinite resources available (even if you try to avoid them).

Communicate however you want. I won't hire you, and others won't as well if you can't speak english if you frequently interact with outside people.

You're probably right. The only reason why everyone speaks English is because Western Europe (and by extension the world) got cucked by the US after WWII. Everyone has to worship burger cock or fall behind

Protip: unless what you brainwashed amerislaves seem to believe, most people in the world do not speak English.

"English is the current lingua franca of international business, education, science, technology, diplomacy, entertainment, radio, seafaring, and aviation. After World War II, it has gradually replaced French as the lingua franca of international diplomacy."

english is the new french
of course plebs don't speak it (except for the lucky angloplebs), but they don't really matter