I find english football to be very charming but I'm really only educated on the big clubs cos you can only glean so much from Sup Forums.
Will yall fill me in the history of the smaller clubs, like sunderland/west brom/swansea, and the like? I'd find it very interesting for sone reaaon.
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There's not much to say really. Most football clubs were formed many years ago, and played football since then.
Sunderland were good many years ago, now they are shit. They have a dedicated fanbase and the local economy relies on their being in the premier league.
Basically our football teams are like your baseball teams in terms of history.
I see. Kind of sad their local economy depends on them being in the top flight. Guess they are well motivated to stay up
goat video comin thru, it's a disgrace what's happened to villa tbqh
Football in this country used to stable. Clubs had a familiar, comforting presence.
That has all changed. Any club is at risk of being wrecked by some arrogant businessman with more ego than money.
We aren't fans anymore, we are customers.
I blame United
I'm a West Brom fan, we've been around since the inception of the football league in 1888. We were quite a big club up until the 1990's, winning the FA cup when it was a big deal, finishing third in the league and reaching the quarter finals of the uefa cup. We also kind of pioneered the use of black players in the English league thanks to the signings of Laurie Cunningham, Cyrille Regis and Brendan Batson, known in the media as "the three degrees" - bbc.co.uk
It all went down hill in the 90's and we almost went out of existence, gradually working our way back up to the top flight during the mid noughties.
The general area of West Brom is as working class as it gets and the football we've played for 4-5 years is not particularly ambitious or nice on the eyes, I'd say we're currently one of the most unfashionable clubs in the EPL due to both of these factors. We just got bought out by A Chinese consortium though so maybe things will change.
I blame fergie
>please spoonfeed me
Fuck off
i know it's the internet, but you really don't need to be mad at everything all the time
maybe some kind british user could explain to uncle sam the history of this small club ?
They invented baneposting
Mate Sunderland's an absolute shithole it's so depressing.
Newcastle's a few miles away. They both used to be proud Northern industrial towns but that went away a long while ago. Toon's kinda re-invented itself with it's university and popularity as a place to go on a night out but Sunderland's got nothing going for it. I remember walking out of the train station there one day and all I saw were massive council estates, betting shops and fast-food joints.
The cab driver offered a pretty accurate reason why Sunderland are always shit. If you're a young footballer whose earning 20k plus a week minimum why would you ever want to live in a place like Sunderland?
Fuck West Brom though. Most painfully average team in the league. Literally has nothing going for it - name three West Brom players off the top of your head that doesn't include le Tottenham reject or le spoilt brat striker
>Sunderland
Slightly insulting to call them a small club, there are only about 10 or so with a bigger history in terms of success and fanbase. They were very successful in the early days of football but not so much now.
In the PL era they've had a reputation as a yoyo club i.e. regular promotions and relegations. They've not been too exciting in that time and there's been a lack of star players, although they had a striker called Kevin Phillips who somehow got European Golden Shoe (top scorer, all leagues) in 1999/2000. Got a reputation recently for escaping relegation with a late run every season.
Main rivals obviously Newcastle. Sorry mackems but Newcastle is a nice city whereas Sunderland is a dive.
>WBA
Have a decent history too and were usually a top flight side until the mid 80s but had no success since then. Also a yoyo side in the PL era but been safe from relegation most of the time for a few years now.
Probably the most boring side at the moment thanks to manager Tony Pulis (tactics: defend and use big physical players)
The bit user posted above about the black players in the late 70's under manager Ron Atkinson is what they're most famous for in this country.
Main rivals are Wolves - good atmosphere in these 'Black Country Derbies' even with their funny accents.
>Swansea
Always been a smaller club than the other two so this is their golden age to date. Only had 1 other spell in the top division in the 80s and spent most of the last 50 years in tiers 3 and 4. They won the league cup a couple of years ago and I think that was their only major trophy.
To be fair they have a decent amount of fans now compared to the clubs they used to be compared to. Being Welsh it's probably easier for them to draw more fans from further afield in Wales.
Rivals are Cardiff City who had 1 season in the Prem recently. Everyone had assumed Cardiff would be the Welsh team to make that breakthrough.
I hope you guys sign some good players with your chinese money, but keep tge soul of the club intact
Thanks mate
no worries
>Stoke City
English football's biggest underachievers. 1 'major' trophy (League Cup, 1972) in 153 years of existence, never first division champions.
Finished last in the first two seasons of the football league.
Had a great team of local lads in the late thirties, including the first 'superstar' player, Stan Matthews, who probably would have won a few titles had it not been for WWII.
Had a super entertaining team in the 70s that was sold off to pay for stadium repairs after a freak storm. Gradual period of decline until the 84/85 'Holocaust season' when the club were relegated with a record low 17 points.
Spent the next 23 years between the second and third divisions before promotion to the PL for the 07/08 season, where they terrorised other teams (Arsenal especially) with Rory Delap's long throw. Current transfer strategy is signing failed wunderkinds (Bojan, Arnautovic, Shaqiri).
At the moment there are 4-5 "superpower" clubs who have the strongest squads, the most money, and biggest fan bases, in large part by virtue of the fact that they found themselves competing at the top end just at a time when the Premier League starting bringing in the mega bucks. Then behind them there are 10-15 traditionally big clubs that boast notable success of some kind in the old days and still retain some reputation and fanbase because of it. The exact status of these clubs varies depending on how long ago they won shit, as well as what exactly was won and it what quantity. Then there are the small clubs that have very little success historically, but some have managed to build squads and even get into the Premier League, giving them some notoriety.
Wow, you're the first Baggie besides me I've seen on Sup Forums. It hurts my heart how neutrals hate us these days. In the 2000s it felt like we were one of the most liked clubs in England
Delighted with the Chadli signing, we desperately need some dynamism up top
Mackem here, and I want to say one thing for my home town:
It might be a shithole, but you haven't lived until you've had a Sunderland night out. Find me ANYWHERE else you can get five jagerbombs for £6, and free entry to pretty much everywhere.
It's trashy as fuck, but it's fun. There's no reason to come here for anything else though.
>Man Utd
>Man City
>Arsenal
>Chelsea
>Liverpool despite being shit for ages
Who's your 10-15 other traditional big clubs?
Off pure tradition and not current league/championship position?
>Spurs
>Everton
>West Ham
>Leeds
>Nottingham Forrest
>Aston Villa
>Blackburn Rovers
>Sunderland (proud hoofball club that's always around)
>Stoke (ditto)
>Middlesbrough
>Portsmouth/Southampton?
Then it gets difficult.
>Hull
>Crystal Palace
>Burnley
>Bournemouth
>Swansea
>Leicester
All pretty small clubs that have spent ages yoyoing around the championship/league 1
Jonny Evans, Ben Foster and Darren Fletcher, all former ManUtd players
>newcastle
>sheffield clubs
>wolves
So neither of the Sheffield clubs or Wolves?
>no Newcastle
>where they terrorised other teams (Arsenal especially) with Rory Delap's long throw
oh, those were the days kek
>foirest
>traditional big club
Jesus fuck, that was a nice joke
Lads why did people give man city stick for moving to a badge that represents Manchester whilst United have *holds up spork * the red devils tm. United just seem like the first franchise in football.
James McClean's a Baggie,
He plays the Pulis way...
Fun trivia, Stoke's fan song is Delilah, the same way Liverpool's is You'll Never Walk alone.
youtube.com
They chose this song (about a man getting cucked by his girlfriend who then laughs at him, before he kills her) because the fans have long recognised their status as a meme team, where everything that could go wrong would. Chad would come along and steal their cup every time.
They used to have a reputation for beautiful football, then Tony Pulis came and along and made sure they did things that were basic as fuck, but had limited risk. With less variables that could go wrong, Stoke got promoted. Stoke essentially killed their beautiful football out of frustration, like the guy in the song kills his girlfriend. A lifelong Stoke fan wrote book-related about their first season back in the top flight.
I think knowing this history really helps explain their fuck you attitude. I loved 2008-2012 era Stoke. There will never be a meme as great as Delap's long throws.
youtube.com
I've seen a few of us posting over the years actually, but we're obviously a rare breed. I'm hype for Chadli too, though I'm a bit worried that no matter who we bring in we're going to struggle to create under pulis.
I know we were destined for relegation but I really miss how we played under di matter. Watching us play is such a chore these days, must be a nightmare for neutrals when we're on sky.
I meant Di Matteo ofc
is that old guy from game of thrones?
Terrible
Rondon, Gardener, and Johnny Evans
this got me thinking
i might sound like a babby but does it count as a goal if you score it via throw?
aka the gin soaked tramp
No, it needs to touch a player first you cant score directly from a throw.
But the good thing is that said player can't be offside.
Feel like QPR should be in there as well as Newcastle, the Sheffields, Wolves, and maybe Derby?
There are English plenty of clubs so small they are not worth mentioning.
>more than 480 divisions
>estimated average of 15 clubs per division
implies that more than 7,000 teams (from professional to amateur).
en.wikipedia.org
Millwall deserve to be there more than QPR
That's your argument!!!
It's fucking shit.
Only Middlesbrough is worse in the whole of the UK.
The list is, if history/tradition is the main factor:
Top 5:
- Man Utd
- Arsenal
- Aston Villa
- Liverpool
- Spurs
Then just under we have the next 10:
- Newcastle
- Everton
- West Ham
- Leeds
- Sheffield Wednesday
- Portsmouth
- QPR
- Sunderland
- Wolverhampton
- Ipswich
Following these you have new power teams like Chelsea with plastic fanbases and no history prior to the 21st century, but who were bought out by foreigners and made great. If you disagree with this list, try to remember that you're wrong.
Your leaving out Ipswich, Wolverhampton and Sheffield Wednesday is criminal.
Damn, I can't say I ever gave Villa much thought but as a fan in general how can you not love that? Unless perhaps you support Birmingham City
Why would people hate you? It's not like you're Dirty Leeds or anything, right?
isnt spurs supposed to be in the next 5. Because them and leeds are very neck and neck.
More like
>Liverpool - Man United
(Power gap)
>Arsenal
(Power gap)
>Spurs - Everton - Chelsea - Aston Villa
(Power gap)
>The rest
Chelsea were literally nothing before 2003.
>Last 13 years don't count
I know what they were and I didn't count the likes of Man City. But they've been elite for 10 years now and that's enough to be in the same tier as Spurs
I unironically lived in Sunderland for six months
it's a long and slightly depressing story...
Middlesbrough's a massive shithole, but it's always home.
I miss it ;-;
I unironically lived in Sunderland for twenty three years
Roker Park with the pond is bretty comfy. the whole seafront is pretty comfy as well.
I live up near Whitburn. It's really quite nice here. Undeserving of being memed into the same boat as other parts of Sunderland.
It hasn't changed and has always been about money, the second people started charging the public to watch matches.
Football was at its best in England during the early 90s. People were going to matches again (unlike in the 80s), you could still stand in a lot of stadiums, it was affordable and you could pay on the gate, the quality of play was high and televised matches weren't the standard - it was as feasible to watch a match live as it was going to the pub.
I've heard the seventies and prior were decent (you could watch Norman Hunter play for a penny a year and both sides of the pitch were uphill and all the players got the bus home with the fans or whatever old people claim) but I'm not old enough for that.
From my experience Sunderland gets a really bad rap for whatever reason. I went to much worse places.
Man United hadn't won a league title for a quarter of a century prior to 1992. Things that happened between those two points:
>man landing on the moon
>the political career of margaret thatcher
>apartheid ending
>the soviet union collapsing
>the parents of your average Sup Forums poster being born
>colour television
>many, many other things.
Spurs aren't even the "biggest" club in North London.
>old guy
He's in his 30's but that's what supporting Aston Villa does to you.
It's nearly exclusively white. Glasgow and Liverpool stopped being shitholes when they stopped being white, according to the press who push this rubbish. Hull is the most depressing city in the world, apparently. It's nowhere near as bad as Luton, Dewsbury, Bradford, Nelson, Burnley, Oldham, etc etc but because evil whitey lives there its nationally derided.
Remember:
Manchester, London, Birmingham, Edinburgh, Bradford and Liverpool are vibrant and modern and the places to be. Hull, Sunderland, Newcastle, Southampton, Plymouth and the likes are just depressing shitholes.
I live in Belfast. As far as crime goes I'd be far worse off in London or Manchester or Liverpool, but because the criminals there are brown and black its brushed under the carpet - unlike Belfast which in the minds of most is somewhere between Beirut and Baghdad in terms of risk.
I know that feel, man. I miss parmos so much.
>West Ham
Part of London known for poverty and downtrodden proletarian white people. Historically an okay team, and most of England's 1966 World Cup-winning team played for West Ham at the time, which is a source of great pride for them. They also have one of the biggest and most violent rivalries in the country with Millwall, who are also poor white uneducated racists.
Fun bonus fact: I have never met a West Ham fan who wasn't a complete asshole. They are literally the worst people in existence. I don't know why.
The hammers are the most aesthetically pleasing team in the PL
Btw most of London was shit until the late 1800's, and now most of it is cool
Stoke fan here, you should mention we're the oldest top-flight club in the entire fucking fucking world, and second oldest professional club in history after Notts County.
Shitting on working class whites is the cool thing to do now.
Stoke were only hoofball under Pulis, before then we had a good tradition of being very pleasing to the eye, especially in the 70s. Post Pulis we've gone back to playing well again (without scoring much, mind).
I'd say:
Man United
Liverpool
Chelsea
Arsenal
Man City
Tottenham
Everton
Aston Villa
West Ham
Leeds
Sheffield Wednesday
Nottingham Forest
Stoke
West Brom
Portsmouth
Southampton
Newcastle
Blackburn
Bolton
Sunderland
Good theory, but it's because a group of Stoke fans got cucked by the Old Bill for singing naughty songs in a pub, and this was, by chance, the next song on the jukebox, and it stuck.
Sunderland are shit because of their meme transfers they used to make, signing average players from lower leagues then being surprised when 9/10 of them were shit. They've stabilized a bit now, but their squad is painfully average aside from 2 or 3 players. >Moyes might be the best thing to happen to them in years
I would if they had any lad
I sexually identify as a forgotten, grim northern industrial shit sore.
>Middlesbrough makes me diamonds.
>No forest
League
First Division (now Premier League)
Winners (1): 1977–78
Runners-up (2): 1966–67, 1978–79
Second Division (now Championship)
Winners (3): 1906–07, 1921–22, 1997–98
Runners-up (2): 1956–57, 1993–94
Third Division (now League One)
Winners (1): 1950–51
Runners-up (1): 2007–08
Football Alliance
Winners (1): 1891–92
Cups
FA Cup
Winners (2): 1898, 1959
Runners-up (1): 1991
Football League Cup
Winners (4): 1978, 1979, 1989, 1990
Runners-up (2): 1980, 1992
FA Charity Shield
Winners (1): 1978
Runners-up (1): 1959
Full Members Cup
Winners (2): 1989, 1992
European and International honours
European Cup
Winners (2): 1979, 1980
UEFA Super Cup
Winners (1): 1979
Runners-up (1): 1980
Intercontinental Cup
Runners-up (1): 1980
>not playing wahbi khazri
>Moyes
doomed and i belived that they may finish mid-table
Early and most notable history of Wolves:
We were founded in 1877, one of the twelve football League Founders in 1888, and played in our first FA Cup final that year. Moved to our home ground Molineux in 1889 and have been there ever since.
Won the FA Cup in 1893 and 1908, the second win coming whilst we were in the second-tier. Went down to the third-tier but won it in 1924. We were then managed by Major Frank Buckley who fought at the Somme, who won the second-tier and got us 2nd in the first-tier twice in a row. In 1938 we lost on the last day which cost us the league. We also lost the last FA Cup final prior to WW2 in 1939. When the league started again we lost on the last day of 1947 to cost us the league. One of our old England internations, Stan Cullis, retired after that and became our manager. He won us the FA Cup in 1949. With Stan Cullis as manager and England captain Billy Wright in defence, we won the league in 1954, 1958, and 1959. Billy Wright was the first player ever to win 100 caps for his country, 105 in total, 90 of which were as captain, a record now shared with Bobby Moore, has the record for most consective games with a national side, and was runner-up to Di Stefano in the 1957 Ballon d'Or.
Won the FA Cup again in 1960 and we started playing foreign sides in friendlies from around the world, our most famous victory was in 1954 against Honved, beating the Hungarian side 3-2. They had lots of players from the 1954 World Cup runners-up and the side which beat England 3-6 and 7-1, including Puskas. This led to us being declared "Champions of the World" and led to the creation of the European Cup the next year.
Tv Tropes provides a good guide of the teams
tvtropes.org
Criminal to leave out Wolves while including utter gash like Bolton and West Brom
They were like what Arsenal are now before 2003
More like West Ham
Have a bit of Blades history.
Founded from a cricket club in 1889 after a FA Cup semi final at Bramall Lane drew a big crowd. We've always played there and it's the oldest ground to host pro football. Within a few years we turned pro and made the top division.
Amazingly we won a league title and 2 FA Cups within the next 8 years. Between 1896-1902 we were winners or second place in one of those competitions and had arguably the greatest player going in Nudger Needham, so we were pretty big time.
We won 2 more cups in 1915 and 1925 but it's all downhill from there. We had a GOAT scorer called Jimmy Dunne who got sold to Arsenal, which led to our first relegation. We beat Wednesday to promotion in 1939 and were top of the league when WWII broke out and the season was called off.
After the war we got relegated and then promoted every few seasons for the next 30 years. Its the era that old men reminisce about now with classic players like Hagan, Currie and Woodward. Our best finish was in 1975 when we came 6th but missed out on Europe on the last day.
This whole time was shared with the cricket club on a pitch with 3 stands and a distant pavilion. In that year they parted so we could build a big grandstand in front of the pavilion, at the cost of first team players.
We got relegated the next season and entered our darkest hour, eventually hitting the 4th tier in the 80s and not getting back to the top flight until 1990 under Dave Bassett.
So we were around to score the first ever Premier league goal but went down in the final minute of 1993-4. Promotion took 12 years to come. We got relegated again after 1 season, again on the last day.
In 2011 we went down to the 3rd tier for the first time since the 80s. Despite being favourites to go up every year since, we have successfully found new and innovative ways to fuck everything up.
I'm in my 20s and I've seen about 6 cup semi finals and 4 playoff finals and we lost them all but at least it's never boring.
>everything relevant won in the space of a couple years
>literally nothing since that manager left
What kind of history is that?
>and it's the oldest ground to host pro football
Mansfield would like a word with you
Big Teams:
-Manchester City
-Chelsea
-Manchester United
-Arsenal
-Liverpool
Mid-table teams:
-Everton
-Tottenham
-Leicester
-West Ham
-Southampton
-Swansea
-Stoke
Jobbers:
-Burnley
-Sunderland
-Bournemouth
-Watford
-West Brom
-Middlesbrough
-Hull
-WBA
Oh you're right, I think it's the longest a pro club has been at a ground then. Field Mill was used by amateurs until Mansfield Town were founded.
Bramall lane has been around since 1855.
>West Brom
>WBA
Continuination of Wolves:
In 1972 we made it to the first ever UEFA Cup final, beating Juventus and Ferencvaros on the way, but we lose to Tottenham. Two years late we won the League Cup for the first time, beating Man City 2-1. We got relegated again two years later, but won the second-tier in 1977.
In 1979 we set the English transfer record by signing Andy Gray for 1.5 Million. The next year he scored the winner in the Leage Cup final against current League Cup and European Champions Nottingham Forest.
However we started to run into money troubles and got relegated. We were minutes away from being relegated in 1982 but were saved by two Saudis known as the Bhatti Brothers. We went up to the First Division again in 1983 but they invested no money in the club and we were relegated three successive times to end up in the Fourth Division. In 1986 the council bought our stadium and a local developer paid off our debts in return for the land around it (which is now an Asda I think). We then bought a striker called Steve Bull from our rivals West Brom. He scored 52 goals in the 1988 season as we won the Fourth Division and beat Burnley 2-0 in the Footall League Trophy. The 80,000 crowd is still a record for the competition to this day.
Bull scored 50 goals the following season as we won the Third Division, and at the end of the season recieved his first England call-up, scoring on his debut against Scotland. Bull is last player to be capped by England from outside the top two tiers, and one of only five post-war players. Between 1986 and 1999 Bull scored 306 goals in 561 games as we tried but failed to reach the First Division (by 1992 the Premier League). At one point he was going to leave to play for Coventry in the PL but Bull himself chose to pull out of the move and stay at Wolves.
>Following these you have new power teams like Chelsea with plastic fanbases and no history prior to the 21st century
Are you fucking daft? Chelsea have a great history, the days of Jimmy Greaves, the League win captained by Roy Bentley, the glamorous 60s and 70s during which Chelsea personified 'Swinging London', Peter Osgood, the trio of Kerry Dixon, Pat Nevin and David Speedie, cup success in the 90s and early 00s, Matthew Harding, the foreign influx from Vialli and Gullit, fucking ZOLA. All before 2003.
You literally have no knowledge and are just spouting memes.
I support Wolves since I was born there. Pisses me off thinking about what my dad and grandad watched compared to some of the shit we've had the last 30 years. Some good times occasionally but the disappointment is getting old.
Isn't Wolverhampton notoriously boring and grey? I seem to recall one of the Monty Python members being from there and absolutely detesting the place.
Eric Idle, who went to the boarding school. Was bullied and hated it but I believe that is more the school than the city. I know he said watching Wolves was one of the things he enjoyed.
Do you Pommies consider that the culture of English football has been shit ever since hooliganism started in the 80s? What followed in the 90s was just whoring out of the league.
Seems like before that it was a grand ol' time for the working class and it was for the locals.
I think that would be Eric Idle. Yeah it's a shithole and most people around here realise that sooner or later, but then there's still a decent football team and a national horse racing venue among other shit to do. Wolverhampton is just a part of a larger metro area rather than a single town on its own so it's a big place and if you're rich enough to live out in one of the nice parts it's not bad.
It was shit after hooliganism, you mean. Keep in mind that the media made it out worse than it is, but getting rid of standing killed the atmosphere, and as the 90s came you get more gloryhunters and people supporting 'their team' from a tv set. The days of passionate English players is gone, passionate English fans are half gone. Clubs outside the Prem don't give a fuck about their fans, as long as they fill the place so it looks good. They don't need local support to survive anymore.
*inside the prem, that should be.
t. Iqbal the Gooner
why are all Arsenal fans either nig nogs or white people who start crying in an interview after the game?
I follow english football very closely but wtf is the club rugby/cricket culture like? Is it more of an American-style "franchise" model where maybe Warwickshire isn't getting good attendance numbers, so they ship the team halfway across the country?
Not a major fan but I know the Wasps (rugby team, previously London Wasps) have moved all around and are now in Coventry, where the owners are trying to get everyone to watch it instead of the football team.