Scythian burial remains tested were mostly R1a-M458 (West-Slavic/Polish!) and Z280.
Still culturally they've had a huge impact (together with the Sarmatians/Alans). Not only were they such renowned warriors, that in trade for services they recieved land from the Romans and later the pope (placenames in France like Allainville, Sermaize etc) -by then they were mostly G2a3, still visible today- they influenced the Slavic language and placenames like the Dniepr and Dniestr rivers, Russian as they may sound, these are actually some of the few Scytho-Sarmatian names left for us.
Also in France: Sermaize, Sarmaise compare to old Dacian capital Sarmizegetusa.
The thing is, eg. Tacitus mentioned that the Bastarnae and Venedi (Wends, proto-Slavs) had "different" faces becase of intermixing with Sarmatians.
So it seems like the Russian poet Aleksandr Blok was right, in their heydeys Scythians were indeed very similar to modern Poles.
>R1a-Z280 is also an Balto-Slavic marker, found all over central and Eastern Europe (except in the Balkans), with a western limit running from East to south-west Germany and to Northeast Italy. It can be divided in many clusters: East Slavic, Baltic, Pomeranian, Polish, Carpathian, East-Alpine, Czechoslovak, and so on.
interesting note: Circassian believe they are direct descendants of Scythians, still carry culture and traditions.
Turks like to clain Circassians as Turkic, but not only are they larping Greco-Anatolians, Turkics adopted Scytho-Sarmatian horse archer lifestyle at a later date.
Brandon Peterson
I am siting, tightly gripping the chair, in hopes we are of different colour than Serbs on these maps
Nothing else matter and being a different colour than Serbs on meme maps is very important
Please, continue
Jason Diaz
Scythians were the guys from Central Asia and Sarmatians were the people in Europe they fucked. I think you might be mixing those up.
Well you are, not only you, especially the Bosnian Croats, up to 75% I2a* Dinaric, closedly related to I2* North- and West-Germanics.
Serbs are a mutt race, a mixture of many elements, the least being the actual Slavic/Venedic R1a* subclades. They just took the language from a much less populous West-Slavic tribe called the Sorbs.
Not meaning to diss the Srbs, but it is the truth.
Also about 10% of Croatian DNA is G2a3*, which suggests that the so-called "White Croats", the Bielohorvaty whose language you adopted, were in good part of Sarmatian origin. Where they were the nobility btw.
Gabriel Perry
God bless. We truly are Sarmatians and white, and completely not of the devilish Ottoman East
Oliver Jones
No, Sarmatians started out as a different tribe of the Scythians, likely after an internal feud, but the Sarmatians accepted people from other tribes, eg. Gothic or proto-Slavic, as long as they could prove their bravery and could tame a horse.
Sarmatians ended up mostly G2a3* after absorbing a good part of a Caucasian population. Also, the fact that their numbers dwindled after joining the Huns proves this, yet the strongest factions, Alans and Avars, would play an important role in Europe in the next millenium to come.
Jordan Young
There was no Slavic R1a in Central Asian Scythians but only R1a-Z93 and N1b, among other stuff maybe. Slavic R1a is restricted to Europe and you're going off the deep end if you think otherwise. Slavs don't have a Scythian past, except maybe some N1b carrying Belarussians.
Cameron Carter
i'm a r1-a and i'm a jewish looking manlet wtf
Leo Baker
Listen to the call of your blood. If a good part of your population feels that way, it is bound to hold some historical truth. I personally am convinced that the tribes described by the Roman, their descendants today have essentially the same character.
But to come back to your question: Dinarics are most closely related to Germanics (North- and West). Both Dinarics and pure Germanics are described as the tallest people in Europe. Coincidence? I think not?
Hence "Danke Deutschland". It is the same as being adopted, and after 2 decades meeting your natural brother, and finding out yo have a lot in common.
Nathaniel Evans
No man, I just looked it up and most Scythial burial finds were M458 and Z280.
R1a-M458 is most prominent amongst West-Slavs, esp. Poles, and R1a-Z280 is the most prominent amongst East-Slavs, Balts and in the Balkans specifically Croats and Slovenes.
Ian Ross
y-dna is not autosomal dna. a high concentration of a certain haplogroup may as well be caused by prehistoric bottlenecks
Jaxon Watson
I live in the area with most I2a thing-y, and I've read Tacitus and Strabo description of Illyrians. He describes them the same as the people around me. A propensity for hairiness, mustache, aquiline noses, coarse, dark hair and eyes, slender but enduring build, much taller than their neighbours
Liam Bailey
>Scythians were the guys from Central Asia and Sarmatians were the people in Europe they fucked.
They are named in the same combination (Scytho-Sarmatian) because their origins were Iranic (although there is practically no R1a left in today's Iran) and Sarmatians originated from Scythians likely after a tribal feud.
But as I said before, they invited others who could prove their courage and horse archer techniques.
The reason the invited tribes, mainly Caucasians in the case of the -Hunnic and Alanic- Sarmatians, is because original R1a* Scytho-Sarmatians had a serious fertility problem. The Greco-Romans of antiquity though this was because they raided a temple of Aphrodite once, truth is that living 24/7 on a horse makes you infertile, because your ball-sack needs to be around 35°C to be fertile, while they sat continuously on a warm-blooded horse.
>I think you might be mixing those up. >Scythians had some N1b btw.
Yes, minor amounts, because they invited others, they were a classic nomadic meritocracy. If you could prove your courage and ingenuity, you were welcome, no matter where you came from.
Brandon Wilson
Britanny, Auvergne, and the Loire Valley received a lot of Alans indeed.
Eli Morgan
Where did you look it up exactly?
Gavin Thomas
Yeah, autosomal defines phenotype more than Y-DNA, that's it, but still, this is exact science, your room to downtalk the results is limited.
Luis Walker
MY BYLI SARMACI I CHUJ
Julian Hughes
too many retarded threads here lately
Levi Morgan
> Croats are germanic I'm never going to visit Croatia ever again.
Nathan White
really made me think
Asher Walker
Chwała Sarmatom - ojcom naszym!
Jace Anderson
Indeed, save for Slovenians, the South-Slavic people are very close to the original Balkan people from antiquity. Some adopted the language from less populous but more succesful northern tribes (West/East-Slavs). In pagan days such behavior was completely normal, it is the reason why the ancient Belgians switched from Germanic to Celtic to Latin to Germanic. The belief was that when you adopt the behavior of a more succesful neighbour, you will inherit these traits, because somehow the gods are more sympathic to the victorious neighbours. Remember back then the right of the strongest was the basis of the pagan view on the world.
Anyway, a lot of the lowlander Balkan people adopted the Slavic language from invading Wends/early Slavs mainly from Poland. Thereby doing the same, forming a (con)federation, as the Franks, Saxons and Allemanni. Hence why it is called Slavic, from slovo, word, meaning those who speak our language, in opposition to "the mute ones", the eternal neighbours, the German(ic)s.
Back in the days most Belgae were Germanics who adopted a Celtic culture, because Celts were more succesful before Roman days. Even in Northern Denmark local tribes adopted Celtic costums, we can derive from the king of the Cimbri called Boiorix (he who was victorious over the Boii). After 2 centuries of Roman rule the Belgic Nervii boasted about being Germanic, and not like those 'meek Gauls' because Germanics became the strongest ones then.
Anyway, in the Balkans, the people who adopted Latin but not Slavic were known as Vlachs. Those who didn't even adopt Latin (yet a lot of Roman loanwords) are the Albanians. The rest is off the same Illyro-Thracian origin but they adopted Slavic. Hence the name Teres and Taras (meaning Thracian) in the mid 20th century was found both in Montenegro and Bulgaria and Ukraine.
Croats and Bosnia Croats are the most pure though, followed by Kosovar Albanians (E1b1* pre-Arabic North-African).
Carson Sullivan
MY BYLI SARMACI, WENDY I WANDALOWIE
MY BILY BURGUNDI, CATY (Goths) I LANGOBARDIE
Based Vandals, I won't rest until the Polish people are universally recognized as direct descendants of the Vandals.
And I've got Gregory of Tours on my side (next to modern exact science)
Luke Evans
t. Celto-Slav
(Celto-Germano-Slav would be more accurate but clearly here the Celto- dominates over Germano-)
Read that ancient sandnigger's description of the Slavs, the only ones described as swarthy and having typically Celtic traits were the Bohemians (anno 900 AD), the descendants of the Boii.
Pic related, Czechs suffer from the "Celtic disease" haemochromatosis. They have both the common and rare abnormality, the rare one only shared with Romanians and Welsh people.
Fuck germanocentric history, thanks to modern exact science (thank you God for making me choose biochemistry over history, even though I am consumed by the latter), we will set history straight and claim the rightful position of West-Slavs in world history.
In the old days these things have been suggested (eg. Vandals being etymologically related to Venedi, not only that but obvious relations between Tacitus' description of Vandal paganish and Old Polish paganism), but late 19th century Germans dominated the scientific discourse, even supported by the other main West-European powers (France, Britain).
Hence why I love exact science, you can shill all you want, but in the words of Sherlock Holmes the cold unemotional facts will prevail over whatever propaganda techniques.
Finally researchers are getting aware that if they want to search for East-Germanic migrant haplogroups, they have to focus on West-Slavic subclades far from the homeland (eg. Sardinia, Tunisia, Northern Spain...).
Jack Ross
I will be looking into Polish toponyms shortly, next to Czech and Slovak ones.
For instance I am convinced that the name Catowitze, a city that only in the late middle ages got renown, yet the name is much older, here Cat- refers to Goths.
Before you laugh at me, I can give you a massive amount of similar toponyms, where Cat-, Kat-, Het-, Hat-,... all refer either to the Goths or the Chatti depending on locating. Yes even the Kattegat between Denmark and Sweden refer to the Goths.
It is not because toponym analysis is a relatively new science, and many dumbfucks literally threw their hat at it without any historical background (Belgian linguist Mauritz Gysselink for example, erudite but lacking elementary laate iron age historical knowledge).
I need more basic Slavic language knowledge + someone who can direct me to the archives and help translate. I will mail authors of academic linguist journals for that.
Nathaniel Wright
same, I'm R1a and I'm a 172 cm manlet
Dylan Barnes
I always told you guys Poland isn't slavic. WE ARE SARMATIAN!!
Eli Green
Are you the guy who used to post on SSC?
Elijah Murphy
no, I've mainly been here, I have however for at least 3 years been claiming that the Poles are the descendants of the Vandals, and now by extension I know all East-Germanic tribes by 400 AD were mostly Polish (although they've adopted Gothic as a language).
I have collected enough decent info to compile a booklet with it. And that is the idea..
Ayden Ortiz
To be fair only the Polish nobility was to some extent descended from Sarmatian peoples (also the early medieval, related Antes, Alan and Avar tribes). Then again Polish had the largest nobility compared to the rest of Europe (3% compared to
Gavin Adams
It does matter because percentages of haplogroup I don't necessarily mean a high percentage of autosomal hunter-gatherer admixture
Landon Rodriguez
Weren't Scythians also the first people in present day Europe to wear pants?
Dylan Barnes
Proud Sarmata here. I am a Polish noble, with coat of arms and shit. We should just accept that we wuz fucken kangs.
Wyatt Mitchell
>interesting note: Circassian believe they are direct descendants of Scythians, still carry culture and traditions. Circassians don't belive this. Circassians belive they are direct descendants of Maeotians and Zichians.
It's Ossetians who belive they are descendants of Scythians and Alans.
Justin Moore
Still it gives us a tool of exacct science we can use to compare to the classic literature of antiquity.
I know your kind of fags are afraid of it, in fact genetic profiling is illegal in France and Turkey, two obviously LARPing countries, one as Romans, the other as Turkics.
And when the knowledge that Vandals were ancient Poles becomes mainstream, I would not be surprised if Germany bans the same.
No problem for us scientists though, we just claim it is a study to monitor a certain specific genetic disease and publish the data anyway.
Wyatt Gonzalez
>Polish had the largest nobility compared to the rest of Europe Bear in mind that it was largely because of Masovia, were 'nobility' accounted for above 10% of population. Duchy of Masovia was incorporated into Poland only in 16th century; in the rest of the kingdomnoblmen were not as abnormally numerous
Jackson Barnes
Interesting note: szlachta means "these shits" in Ossetian, which is belived to be descendant of Alanic language, i.e. Sarmatian :3
Just a joke.
Ryder Cook
>Aleksandr Blok was right, in their heydeys Scythians were indeed very similar to modern Poles In Alexander Blok's rhymes Scythians were portraited as mongol-eyed people, lol.
Asher Davis
Dareth not trigger me.
Jackson Ross
we wuz kingz n shieet
Michael Wood
Yeah, Germanics made it famous, but Iranics were the first noted in history to wear pants. Pants are advantageous when on horse-back.
Now I am pretty sure all Indo-European peoples wore pants pretty early on, just think of the climate. Also early Slavic culture and early West-Germanic culture overlaps, in the broad sense all Indo-European peoples pagan beliefs were pretty similar.
Hence the points of similarity between Old Man Frost, and Boruta who stole children around wintertime, and Sinterklaas/Zwarte Piet (a black devil before he became a Moor) and Santa Claus.
I can go on and list many points of similarity between Slavic, Celtic, and §Celto-)Germanic pagan lore.
Caleb Thompson
having autism doesn't mean you're a scientist jerzy
all I wanted to say is that one should be careful with y-dna, especially when you go far back in time where bottleneck phenomenons could occur (e.g. the fact that both Scandinavians and Balkan folks have high concentrations of haplogroup I doesn't have to mean much). For, say, the migration period it can be useful though.
Colton Sanchez
BEautiful, I especially like the ravens, btw a very germanic symbol going back to pagan days (ravens were bringers of news, but they preferred bad news).
They did, bt how many actual Circassians are alive today.
Hell I've seen Chechens, those Araboid peoples, claim that they are the descendants of Scythians and Sarmatians.
Look the Balkans peoples migrated a lot between the fall of Rome and the coming of the Slavs.
Hence Teres in found as a name in Montenegro and Taras in Ukraine and Bulgaria. Teres and Taras mean "Thracian".
Anyway, the Ossetians are right. The term "Os" has been used extensively throughout history for Scytho-Sarmatians to refer to themselves. Not only obvious examples as Rox(o)alani, (((Jaz)))yges, but also Andalusia, originally Wandalusia, land of Vandals and 'Os" Alans.
See also Catalonia: land of (Visi)goths.
Gregory of Tours is a good source for this.
Anyway, as I said before, Scythians were proto-Slavic while Sarmatians started out as such around 400 BC but by 400 AD they mainly carried a specific Caucasian haplogroup (G3a2*) also shared by Caucasus Avars and the closely related Andi (== Antes! one of the tribes next to the Slovenci who stood at the cradle of Slavic federation).
2. Bottlenecks you say? Yeah perhaps with the Finns (Finnish heritage disease) and even the Jews, but the Romans when they conquered the Balkans and settled there, even after 3 centuries they were in the minority.
Of course some (Dacians) adopted Roman language and became known as Vlachs (litt. Walloons).
Look at the amount of R1a* subclades in the Balkans, and you will see that the invadinbg Slavs were in the minority compare to the locals.
There are always historical autists that think when a neighbouring tribe or federation conquers a piece of land, they will kill all natives. Which is an idea only modern overly spoiled people can take serious. In the worst case (eg. Britain) the natives become the lower classes. But they don't kill them, they are valuable, who else will provide food and cannon fodder?
Adam Williams
a lot of Poles have mongoloid features
Carson Bennett
>France and Turkey, two obviously LARPing countries, one as Romans, the other as Turkics
We don't LARP as Romans, we simply state the obvious truth that we're Gauls with a Latin Culture aka Gallo-Romans
PS : The Franks are Sicambri aka Germanized Gauls tho
Easton Wright
>Of course some (Dacians) adopted Roman language and became known as Vlachs (litt. Walloons).
>Look at the amount of R1a* subclades in the Balkans, and you will see that the invadinbg Slavs were in the minority compare to the locals.
I never doubted this. Thanks for the blogpost though
Juan Barnes
>Gut-
This refers to the Goths, right?
Not abnormal if you know that Goths settled for centuries in Poland, and originally they were 1/3th of the population of the relatively small island of Gotland.
Also I like the French-style epitheton, we use the same here; my best friend's last name is de Crombrugghe de Picquendaele.
French style > German style (or silly Brit style) because French was the language of nobility all over Europe and diplomats.
Carter Robinson
Poles are as Sarmatian as modern Englishmen are Britton.
Also Sarmatians were a warrior culture and were described as having blonde hair.
Polacks are a victim culture that never even invaded a country and vast majority have dark hair.
Brandon Evans
Lol.
Anyway, Scythians looked more like Caucasians.
Blake Edwards
This. They literally are considered a caucasoid race. Sarmatians had fuck all to do with poles.
Aaron Thompson
What are the Flemish user? Franks?
Cooper Thomas
Aryan Scythian Wend Vandal if wewuz retards that spawned lately are to be believed yeah.
Sebastian King
Of course and I'll tell you even more, 3/4th of the tribes that formed the Frankish confederation were Celto-Germanics (they intermixed and used Gaulish language and habits). See not only Sicambri but Tencteri, Nervii, Menapii, Usipetes... Also: Bataves split off from the West-Germanic Chatti, moved to the Rhine delta and as late as the 3-4th century adopted Gaulish next to Latin, to do business with their Belgic neighbours;
also Nervian retired cohorts (Nervii lived in today's Hainaut) financed the newly emerging Frank confederacy (Frank means the same as in English, Flemish official motto still is Vrank en Vrij - Frank and Free) while Celtic Menapii and Morini, who lived at the coast, made salt from seawater. Salt was expensive in those days and sed as currency, in fact Roman legionairres were paid part of their payment in salt. That is why we are so different from the large pure Germanic Dutch, even though we speak more or less the same language. Haplomemes also confirm.
Belgae were basically Germanic tribes who crossed the Rhine when the Celts were still the strongest (before Roman invasion) and mixed with them, adopted their language and culture. Hence here people are mainly composed out of 3 R1b subclades, two of which are associated with local Gauls and Celtisized Germanics (Belgae confederation) and a minor amount of purely Italic group that came with the Romans.
BTW I have a West-Flemish friend who looks almost 100% like this Greek statue of "the dying Gaul".
Aaron Sullivan
>. Sarmatians had fuck all to do with poles.
Well then explain the 10% of G3a2* (much higher than European average) in Croatia; knowing that was about the same amount of "White Croats" (bielohorvaty) living in Southern Poland?
Also, I will add that in the 19th century people from the southern Poland still referred to themselves as bielohorvaty.
James Fisher
Yes but Franks are a confederation ("those who were frank" read did not want to pay taxes to the Romans) consisting of Celto-Germanic tribes, meaning the old Belgae + bordering tribes from today's NL mainly. These are the Salian Franks (Merovingians)
Riparian Franks were mostly West-Germanic tribes bordering us.
Owen Lee
Belgians are retarded lmao.
Jacob Butler
i am a catholic thracian man from bulgaria (thracia)
Grayson Nguyen
Taras is a male Eastern European given name, used particularly by Ukrainians. It is probably derived from Taras, son of the god Poseidon.
Christian Thomas
Got anything about vlachs and/or romanians in your autismo notes? I'm interested to know.
Mason James
Now I know what a real autism looks like.
OP is an actual autist.
Isaac Brown
>Hell I've seen Chechens, those Araboid peoples >Chechens >Araboid You know, praising Circassians on the one side, talking shit about Chechens on other other side, doesnt make sense? We look alike, I am sure you can't distinguish us from each other.
Thomas Rodriguez
whats the word on avars in the caucasus
khabib nurmagomedov is a cool guy
Ayden Torres
Everyone in the Caucasus has a love-hate relationship, tending more to the love part
Are you that Schaubposter from /heem/?
Jordan Wilson
no, i only lurk /heem/, rarely post
just asking because i've seen other kavkaz posters hate on avars, and i only recently learned that they still exist after us and magyars genocided them from europe
Easton Myers
Avars are probably our (Chechens) best friends (after Ingush, we used to be one) It's note sure if the Avars in the Caucasus are the same as the one who cucked Europe
Aiden Sanders
I am pretty sure we have translations of the bible to Gothic from the Barbarian Kingdoms age and it is a Germanic language.