Should the fact that Led Zeppelin stole so much of their music be held against them or not...

Should the fact that Led Zeppelin stole so much of their music be held against them or not? Do they deserve less credit for their work for doing so? What do you think?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=eRJHo378Dro
thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/04/30/is-bob-dylan-a-phony.html
bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-36611961
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_recorded_by_Led_Zeppelin
youtube.com/watch?v=rHDv5enevEA
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

They didn't steal, they covered.

It's not a cover if you change the songwriting credits to yourself

I don't hold the blues songs against them but taking credit for stuff like Stairway to Heaven and Dazed and Confused which had originated with their less-successful contemporaries was a very low thing to do imo.

>Should the fact that Led Zeppelin stole so much of their music be held against them or not
Well, to you think originality and artistic integrity is important when evaluating music?

Musicians borrow from other musicians all the time. The "x band stole from black musicians" argument is idiotic as by that logic all music is stolen. Music started as people mimicing sounds they heard in nature, so by the same logic, the first musicians could be seen as scumbags for having stolen from nature.

the beatles borrowed ideas from less successful psychadelic musicians, modern hip-hop, pop, and electronic music often samples from older unknown music, yet no one goes around talking about how horrible they are/were for doing so.

>Musicians borrow from other musicians all the time.
When you borrow something, you give it back. Did Led Zeppelin ever give back to the poor black artists they ripped off (without the courts making them first)?

I'm not talking about borrowing ideas, I mean covering someone else's song directly and crediting it for yourself.

>the beatles borrowed ideas from less successful psychadelic musicians
Like what?

youtube.com/watch?v=eRJHo378Dro

What idea did The Beatles take form this? it doesn't even sound like them.

In all honesty whether or not they stole their music has no impact on their effect on modern music, while the things that they stole do need to be accounted for not many people would have heard them if not for Led Zeppelin picking up songs from less successful bands, it is shitty, but think of it as a necessary evil for the evolution of modern music and Rock and Roll.

have you not listened to sgt pepper or the white album? Or are you just dumb and think that songs have to sound exactly alike for them to take elements from one another?

>have you not listened to sgt pepper
Sgt Pepper came out before SF Sorrow

Try again

>Should the fact that Led Zeppelin stole so much of their music be held against them or not?

It already has, they've been to court over it several times.

actually, the more I think of it you are kinda right, Pretty Things were more of a Beatles follower than a predecessor, even their early stuff was pretty much beatles skiffle/pop rock era copy cat stuff. They kinda just got lucky and somehow surpassed the beatles with S.F. Sorrow. There are better examples but my psych music phase was a long time ago and I'm drawing blanks, I'll post so if I remember.

that album was released way after rubber soul, revolver, peppers and the white album, post a better example

>There are better examples
Obviously not, if your only example literally happened two years after the Beatles went psychedelic

>but my psych music phase was a long time ago and I'm drawing blanks, I'll post so if I remember.

also I'm not sure why I want to prove anything at all to trolls that are too lazy to do their own research.

Well you made the (false) claim initially, it's your job to prove it

You should be asking yourself why you bothered posting in the first place if you don't know wtf you are even talking about

eh fuck off, this thread is retarded /r/music tier shit anyhow, I'm out. Enjoy your circle jerk delusions that anything that knows anything about psych music knows are not true.

>Enjoy your circle jerk delusions that anything that knows anything about psych music knows are not true.
Not you apparently

Holy shit, the asspain.

lol you got btfo

I don't care about shit like the Stairway riff, but duders should have given credit to the bluesmen

Culture builds on culture and Led Zep did a lot to raise the profile of the blues tradition, but giving credit where it's due is just the right thing to do since there's money involved and all that

Who cares? Even Bob Dylan stole music and he's considered the greatest songwriter of all time.

>Who cares?
See

I think I agree most with this user.

Everyone steals. Maybe that's cynical of me to say, but IMO at most 15% of anything anyone's doing is actually original. At most.

The problem with your logic is that Dylan was a part of the actual folk scene

Led Zeppelin were not poor, black, rural American bluesman.

I mean, Dylan straight-up cribbed shit from poor black American bluesmen.

Okay, but to your point about the power imbalance: fair. Fair, so Led Zeppelin is, as a band, probably more morally at-fault than other musicians. It should definitely dull the image of the band.

The music itself, though, insofar as it's stolen--still, to me, that's par for the course.

No. But their music is trash anyway, so who cares.

They made it better. So they're the original.

So Dylan was a poor black rural bluesman so it's ok for him to steal their songs?

>I mean, Dylan straight-up cribbed shit from poor black American bluesmen.
Like what?
Was Woody Guthrie black?

What songs did Dylan steal?

All blues rock artists did it, I don't really mind since the shit they made was amazing

>so much of their music

what percentage of their 80 recorded songs did they "steal" ?

no way Zeppelin kicked ass...even their covers are so fucking goddamned good that it just doesnt matter - anyone who thinks otherwise is a fucking pleb.

Why is Page's hair so frizzy and disgusting? Jesus christ

The large majority of their classic albums
>anyone who thinks otherwise is a fucking pleb.
>it totally kicks ass brah!!

all their albums are classic ...quantify or quit whining.

Now by popular demand! A list of some of the songs Zep stole from other artists:
"Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" - A folk song by Anne Bredon, this was originally credited as "traditional, arranged by Jimmy Page," then "words and music by Jimmy Page," and then, following legal action, "Bredon/Page/Plant."
"Black Mountain Side" - uncredited version of a traditional folk tune previously recorded by Bert Jansch.
"Bring It On Home" - the first section is an uncredited cover of the Willie Dixon tune (as performed by the imposter Sonny Boy Williamson).
"Communication Breakdown" - apparently derived from Eddie Cochran's "Nervous Breakdown."
"Custard Pie" - uncredited cover of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down," with lyrics from Sleepy John Estes's "Drop Down Daddy."
"Dazed And Confused" - uncredited cover of the Jake Holmes song (see The Above Ground Sound Of Jake Holmes).
"Hats Off To (Roy) Harper" - uncredited version of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down."
"How Many More Times" - Part one is an uncredited cover of the Howlin' Wolf song (available on numerous compilations). Part two is an uncredited cover of Albert King's "The Hunter."
"In My Time Of Dying" - uncredited cover of the traditional song (as heard on Bob Dylan's debut).
"The Lemon Song" - uncredited cover of Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor" - Wolf's publisher sued Zeppelin in the early 70s and settled out of court.
"Moby Dick" - written and first recorded by Sleepy John Estes under the title "The Girl I Love," and later covered by Bobby Parker.
"Nobody's Fault But Mine" - uncredited cover of the Blind Willie Johnson blues.
"Since I've Been Lovin' You" - lyrics are the same as Moby Grape's "Never," though the music isn't similar.
"Stairway To Heaven" - the main guitar line is apparently from "Taurus" by Spirit.
"White Summer" - uncredited cover of Davey Graham's "She Moved Through The Fair."
"Whole Lotta Love" - lyrics are from the Willie Dixon blues "You Need Love."

Yes sadly. Covering Dazed and Confused from Jake Holmes then claiming its their song is scummy.

but a lot of those WERE credited...and some ie: Stairway are false accusations..

"apparently derived" are fucking serious?

no matter....they fucking rocked- they made brilliant music...and fuck off first and then kys

Nobody shits on Bob Dylan for stealing and nobody should shit on Led Zep.

The real problem is US IP laws and anyone who disagrees is a music industry shill.

>another Led Zeppelin thread
>no mention of John Bohnam

You are missing the most important bit.

Funny how they had to pay out so many out of court settlements, then.

On Led Zeppelin's album Led Zeppelin II (1969), parts of the song "Bring It On Home" were copied from Sonny Boy Williamson's 1963 recording of "Bring It On Home," written by Willie Dixon. On the same album, "The Lemon Song" included an adaptation of Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor." In 1972, Arc Music, the publishing arm of Chess Records, brought a lawsuit against Led Zeppelin for copyright infringement over "Bring It On Home" and "The Lemon Song"; the case was settled out of court for an undisclosed sum.
Led Zeppelin's song "Whole Lotta Love" contained lyrics that were derivative of Willie Dixon's 1962 song "You Need Love." In 1985, Dixon filed a copyright infringement suit, resulting in an out-of-court settlement. Later pressings of Led Zeppelin II credit Dixon as co-writer.[24]
Led Zeppelin also paid a settlement to the publisher of Ritchie Valens' song "Ooh! My Head" over "Boogie with Stu" (from their album Physical Graffiti) which borrowed from Valens' song.[25]

Pull your head out of Robert Plant's ass. It stinks in there.

Okay, so, like I said before, I don't keep a running catalogue of artists' musical "thefts" because I consider musical thievery a pretty key part of all music--not just folk and popular music.

But Bob Dylan's inclination to nab songs and lines from other artists is well-documented in No Direction Home as well as in various articles.

thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/04/30/is-bob-dylan-a-phony.html

So like, just perusing the article I just posted, Memphis Minnie is an example of a black artist that Bob Dylan "alluded" to without giving credit.

Okay well I agree with you that he was the most important member of the band, but we're talking about artists ripping off other artists.

I guess I could mention that John Bonham ripped off Bernard Purdie for "Fool in the Rain."

But like, what does it mean to rip someone off? Can a drummer really own a cadence?

Led Zep and Dylan came from an age where you didn't need to write all original tunes in order to be successful. In '61 cover artists were the biggest sellers on the Billboard 200.

"muh integrrruuhhty" isn't an argument, because no artists have integrity.

>It stinks in there.

you would know.

I could not care less if every song they did was ripped directly from your mothers anus...does nothing to detract from their artistic brilliance. Performing, producing, composing etc...just all around brilliance.

Nevermind that their best songs are wholly original compositions...

but your level butthurt is quite humorous and telling.

This hurts, because I love Zeppelin. They were my favorite band as a kid. But it's all true.

My level of butthurt?

Led Zeppelin are plagiarists who stole from poor minority artists who did not have the financial ability to defend their own art. I can think of nothing that is worse than that. At least The Beatles gave credit when they used other people's music. They didn't claim it as their own like Plant/Page/Jones/Bonham did.

That's the fucking difference.

>all their albums are classic
Coda is classic?
>quantify or quit whining.
80%

Notice how most of these songs are the pleb filters of their discography

>but a lot of those WERE credited
On the original albums? No sir.
>Stairway are false accusations..
[citation needed]
>thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/04/30/is-bob-dylan-a-phony.html
>Love and Theft album
lel
>"alluded" to
What does this even mean?
Note how LZ Defeners rely on the word "pleb" so much. Irony?

In fairness to Led Zeppelin, they changed the songs. The songs they stole from aren't interchangeable with the Led Zeppelin versions.

I'm sorry, there's just a difference between a song played on an acoustic guitar vs. a song played with a Les Paul through a Marshall stack with John Bonham on drums.

The place where it gets kind of shitty/weird is the other ways in which Led Zeppelin changed the songs--specifically by packaging them with attractive young white British faces without mention of the poor old black artists who had written the songs.

I have said, and will say again, that the songs themselves stand up as sufficiently different from their source material to merit being considered and criticized in their own right. But OP has convinced me that yes, any discussion of the band probably needs to take into account that morally speaking, they behaved exploitatively--although I don't think this means they were less creative than other artists. Everyone who makes music draws (heavily) on source material. Led Zeppelin just seems to have drawn extra-heavily in the belief that they could get sufficient credit, anyway, because their source material was invisible and powerless.

I mean, Led Zeppelin were shitty people. We all know this. I had a Jimmy Page poster in my bedroom at home. I can admit he's probably a shitty dude.

>My level of butthurt?

yes- absolutely- knock'em dead scout- keep whining long enough I am sure someone will care.

>80%

now you are just lying.

Listen kid, we don't appreciate you common in here with your contrarian cahoots so you better frig off Mmk?

>[citation needed]

bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-36611961

"Led Zeppelin did not copy the opening chords of Stairway to Heaven from the US band Spirit, a US jury has found."

Prove it
Fair enough. Didn't read that. I guess that makes this card pretty rare then. Thanks!

Oh so they made way more shitty songs better than I thought.

>Prove it

you do the math

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_recorded_by_Led_Zeppelin

>music industry shill.

things that don't exist

being this hurt

The burden of proof is on you brah

OK let's break it down:

On their first album, there were only two truly original songs. That's 77% was stolen from other artists.

Leopard Skin Pillbox Hat is a rip-off of Lightning Hopkins
youtube.com/watch?v=rHDv5enevEA

He was sued for With God By Our Side copying some old Irish song.

A lot of his lyrics were lines from old movies.

Yes to both questions!

>Leopard Skin Pillbox Hat is a rip-off of Lightning Hopkins
Just generic blues progressions are not copyright able. Nice try
>some old Irish song.
Goalpost shifting
>A lot of his lyrics were lines from old movies.
[citation needed]