ITT: patrician jazz ONLY

ITT: patrician jazz ONLY

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ascension

the Coltrane/Sanders combo is god tier and quite patrician in my honest opinion

holy shit those digits
Coltrane and Sanders confirmed for channeling God directly.

NICE FUCKING GET!

Listen to Meditations for an epic Coltrane/Sanders collaboration, all of the good parts of ascension in my opinion, mixed with the best parts of Love Supreme.

can't deny those digits

aight thanks man; ill check it out

have u guys heard of this obscure album called kind of blue
I listened to it and wtf I love jazz now lemme put this favorites chart and give it a 5 on rym

If you actually take the patrician/pleb meme seriously you're probably not ready for jazz yet

I have a collection of over 1500 jazz records and I listen to about 8 to 12 albums a day. I have been a professional jazz musician for about 9 years. Ask me anything you want or tell me about your taste and I will reccomend you some albums or artists.

...

Give me your honest opinion on BadBadNotGood

I really like free jazz, but do professionals / players with an academic background give a shit about it? I figure you do, but what about the community in general?

Bill Evans in general, mainly the trio stuff 50s-60s. He's my favorite jazz pianist. What do you think of undercurrents?

Well I'll start by saying that they fall into a group that a lot of non jazz people call jazz but i really dont see what could make them jazz, same with groups like vulfpeck or snarky puppy. BBNG seems to me to be essentially just hip hop instrumentals, which is fine. I dont really enjoy it or listen to it. If im looking at it from a jazz perspective then its really really bad, i mean like totally atroccious but they arent jazz so if im looking at them for what they are then theyre okay, not so much my thing but im sure theyre fine and maybe will drive more people towards the jazz club.

>Patrician
>Most popular entry level jazz musician in history

What's your opinion on the Youngblood Brass Band? My students go nuts over their stuff, but I'm wondering what a more experienced jazz musician thinks of them?

Why wouldn't they? It's the most difficult, complex form of jazz.

great question. yes, I fucking love free jazz. I have made many free albums, have a free group, run a free jam session, compose free music i mean man, i live that shit. Free jazz is a very polarizing topic, most people professionals and acedemics either love it or absoutely fucking hate it and everyone that plays it. Its very weird, pretty us vs them kind of vibe. It also seems to have literally no correlation with the quality of the musician and their feelings on free music, i know a ton of people who do nothing but talk shit about free jazz and really really suck and i know people who hate it and are incredible players and other way around. it really just depends on the guy but it isnt very well accepted by most people at say a well respected jazz school but there will probably be a small community of students and professors there that are speaking in hushed tones about their favorite tim berne, david s ware, or cecil taylor cuts.

Also what do you play and what area, how hard is it to get work? Is music a side gig or full time for you?

I really want to start a studio and record albums for people but am afraid of taking the risk and then having to come back and use my degree years later, which is gonna look bad in resumes

wrong. that is a dumb answer and very dumb way to think. technical wank fests and odd meters is what drove me to the music of someone like Ornette Coleman in the first place. the free jazz community seems to be less effected then the rest of the jazz world by the attitude of chops, cutting contests, and general tastless wanking.

what do you think about jazzthreadguy's taste in jazz and reviews?
rateyourmusic.com/~jazzthreadguy

What are some albums that you think are must listens that are not commonly on those lists.

Also, what modern albums do you enjoy? Any other non-jazz recs?

I was actually gonna stay out of this thread but now I'm curious.

What do you think of Herbie Hancocks body of work in general? And what are your favorite albums/songs of his?

>can't handle odd meters
opinion disregarded

bills the shit man. well i tell everyone this when they ask me for reccs but make sure youve gone through and listened to everything in the period you just mentioned. Bill is great because he was really a beautiful player who stuck to his concept until he died so id say make sure you just listen to almost all of his discography, maybe the early 60s is iffy but trio 64 is fantastic if you havent heard it. Undercurrents is great. try checking out Paul Bley, Keith Jarrett standards trio and his albums on impulse from the 70s, the latter of which might be the most underrated jazz group of all time. Richie Birach, Fred Hersch, and also any red garland trio albums from the 50s or early 60s you can find. also bud powell, my friend is a total bill nut and he loves all those guys, especially bud powell.

I figure some academic minds might be very thrown off by the lack of structure on various free jazz records. Plus there's how vague the composition can sometimes be, when some players are playing on different scales or in different keys. Free jazz is a big and incredibly diverse genre so of course there's a billion different ways for a person with an academic background to find a fault, though I suppose it's just as easy to find academic significance in much of it. I have no formal jazz training, I was trained in blues and rock through private lessons, so I was just interested in an insider opinion.

Solid answer thanks. I expected there to be no real consensus but it's cool to hear about the atmosphere surrounding it.

who said cant handle odd meters??? theres people who do it well in straight ahead and free and people who do it very poorly and only a very small number of people fall into the catagory of people who do it well. It is a fad and it will pass.

>It is a fad and it will pass.
That's what they said about bebop.

fuck i don't want to bombard you with questions but
What are your thoughts on
>Albert Ayler - Spiritual Unity (or Ayler in general)
>Art Blakey - Free for All
>Bill Evans trio - Sunday at Vanguard Village
>John Coltrane - Ascension
>Miles Davis - Miles Smiles
>Hank Mobley - Dipping'
>Peter Brötzmann - Machine Gun
i really like these records, so i was wondering what would you rec
also what are some underrated musicians and what are some good modern acts?

holy fucking shit look at them digits

hey man. Never heard of them so im giving them a listen now, their track brooklyn to be exact cause it seems to be their most popular. Well, I dont like it and wouldnt reccomend it to a student. kinda seems like something that kids that are really into their high school marching band program or music education majors would be really into. also i cant really call this jazz, more so funk or rock. let your students listen to what they want of course but im not a fan.

I know Miles wasn't a fan of free jazz, he respected what they were doing but didn't like it. That's why he went the fusion route instead of the free route that Coltrane went.

you bring up a good point, bebop is still played but jazz moved on to something else, didnt it?

Philadelphia is my home city but that also means tons of gigs in central PA, Jersey, NYC, Baltimore, and DC. Its not easy getting work but you can get by. Being an acedemic helps because a lot of my money comes from teaching or research grants.

and yet the influence of bebop is still pretty evident in most all of what you'd call jazz today

Me and JTG get along well actually tho idk if he always knows its me cause i dont use a trip though ive considered starting one. He definitely knows whats up and should be listened to. We have some differing opinions once in awhile but thats just a matter of taste. I do warn about his love of the Criss Cross label. Its a great label and oh my god that cat knows it inside and out but he does have a strong preference towards it.

sure, i mean the odd meters thing is always going to be a part of jazz DNA from now on but i think you will see it be less and less of a focal point.

oh wow this a big one...could you be slightly more specific, like what some stuff you like is or a certain period or idiom? thanks man, i just dont think i can name every album that i feel gets left out. as for your second part of the question and stuff i cant reccomend much because i pretty much listen to about 97% jazz, frankly my favorite non jazz releases are like a lot of mucore and stuff. That being said i might have a few things for you. Ill combine your two questions and give you an album thats not on mu ever really and is one of my favorite pop albums, pic related, Margo Guryan- Take a Picture

is wayne shorter god? i'm riveted by anything he plays.

herbieanon, please stop spamming jazz threads. i dont know if it is good for the jazz culture of the board, but there does seem to be more jazz threads then ever these days. anyways man, ive told you before. every miles davis album herbie is on with the second great quintet is amazing, i mean really fucking lights out 10/10 almost every time. Herbie has a bad batting average though, as a leader he has a loooooot of material that i just dont see much value in. but he is an incredible musician who has given the world many incredible performances. My favorite album herbie is on is probably My Funny Valentine- Miles Davis. My favorite album where he is a leader is probably Speak like a Child, i did a gig recently where i had to sight read the tune Riot with a pianist that is obsessed with wayne/herbie stuff, shit was hard.

yeah sorry man. wish i had like a hard and fast answer but its just not like that. However i think free jazz getting brushed under the rug by a certain family of shitty jazz nazis from new orleans has kept free jazz more honest then straight ahead and kept it from getting tamed by tuxedos and concert halls.

Thanks for the reccs. That's what draws me to Bill is is touch, it's absolutely fantastic. Like a waterfall of notes so perfectly and effortlessly strung together and in the exact moments. Hard to replicate.

sorry it took me so long to get to you man, im a slow typer and long winded. i love your question and everything.
>Ayler- Spiritual Unity
One of my favorite albums of all time. incredible piece of work by three beautiful souls and were blessed ayler left behind the work he did for us to enjoy forever. rest in power.
>Free for All
THEY BLOW THE FUCKING DOORS OFF THE STUDIO MAN i mean that record is the definition of cats GOOOOING iiiiiinnnnnnn. My favorite blakey record for sure. definitely not sensitive or varied but if you want some aggressive swinging shit by guys who want to blow themselves out of their damn skin on some changes well thats kinda the record! not my favorite idiom but when i want hard bop, i want free for all.
>Sunday at the Village
man, its good. its really good. i dont know what else to say. its really fucking good.
>Ascension
I have trouble commenting on any coltrane music made after 1964, it gets into an area thats so deep and spiritual that articulating my love for any of it is really a fools errand. the world would be better if more people listened to that record and my love for all late trane albums truly goes beyond words and time.
>Miles Smiles
This and Sunday at the village Vangaurd are the BEST albums to listen to if you want to hear immaculate interaction in a rhythm section. that being said, anytime wayne solos on this record i find myself waiting for it to be over and all the players can be alittle show boaty. Its a really good record, i mean many people i respect would call it a 10/10 and im a bass player so learning to interact, this shit is the new testament but its not really for me as a piece of art.
>dipping
Heard it a few times but not super familiar with it. there was a period where blue note albums kinda all sounded the same but were all pretty fucking good and cool. sorta a dime a dozen and nothing super special but its definitely good.
>Machine Gun
I think this album gets over hyped on mu (cont.)

cont. machine gun is cool but i would reccomend also checking out Brotzmanns Die Like A Dog band, i really like them. bottom line in general is if you like it then you like it and you should keep listening to it. now, on to reccs.
Charles Gayle- Repent
David S Ware- Go see the World
(begrudgingly) Wynton Marsalis- Black Codes from the Underground
Paul Bley- Paul Bley with Gary Peacock
Air- Air Raid
Monk- Live in Tokyo
Sam Rivers- Fuschia Swing Song
Lee Morgan- The Procrastinator
Ornette Coleman- Live in Paris 1971 or Science Fiction

if youre riveted by everything he plays then hes your god man. I personally have always had a complicated relationship with his music but if you like him then thats great! i mean if someone told me they dont like coltrane i would still go home and listen to all my late trane records.

You should get a trip desu, peobably one of the few people that actually deserve it.

My two closest friends are pianists who love bill alot and the are obsessed with his touch and 8th notes. If you like his touch then i again have to recc keiths band from the 70s with charlie haden, paul motian, and dewey redman. Maybe start with Shades or Bop Be

I'd like to add Oscar Peterson to this list.
His playing was truely one of a kind
try We Get Reqeusts or Night Train

man Spiritual Unity is fucking amazing, and possibly my favorite jazz album of all time. Recently i listened to Nuits de la Fondation Vol 1, thought it was also amazing but i think i still prefer Spiritual Unity. Absolutely agree on Free For All, holy shit if It ain't amazing (specially Free for All the song)
Die Like a Dog made some incredibly fucking solid albums, specially Aoyama Crows. Even then, im still particularly fond of Machine Gun since it was the first Free Jazz album i listened to. Downloading all of these, thanks for the recs man. Also It wasn't until recently that i listened to We Insist! Max Roach's Freedom Suite. God It was amazing. Also forgot to add Out to Lunch! since the list was kind of Big, but i think that record gets kind of universal praise already

thanks man, I'll think about it. sometimes i try to do this sort of thing where i recc people stuff or just post recent releases i like and people get pissed and sometimes it goes well like it has in this thread so im still on the fence about it but im in most jazz threads anyway.

Those are both fantastic albums and are excellent piano trio cuts. ray brown and ed thigpen swing. hard. i wasnt sure if that stuff would fit with his taste or not but solid reccs man. im a bassist so those records were my bible for a long time.

Can you give me recs for artists like Fats Waller and albums like Solo Monk? I find them super catchy which is kinda cool to see in jazz

hahah yeah, im weird with machine gun. on here it seems to be alot of peoples first into to hard core, energy music free jazz but i had been listening to fire music type stuff for a few years when i first heard it. its good but theres stuff similar to it that i think just hits my soul alittle better. hope you like the reccs man! youre listening to some great stuff. I also have to reccomend, of course, any and all late coltrane albums. i mean anyhting in his discography is amazing but anything in his discog recorded after 1964 should be listened to by everyone and it is all perfect music.

Excuse me, Mr Jazz man (or anyone else for that matter).

I'm fairly new to Jazz, I took at a stab at it a couple of years ago but lost interest at the time, but I'm getting back into it just now and am enjoying myself so far.

I'm still familiarizing myself with the sub genres and figuring out what I enjoy, but so far I seem to be mainly enjoying both Jazz-Rock / Jazz Fusion and some Free Jazz. I'd appreciate any recs for albums, artists, genres, lifestyle choices, sex positions etc.

Stuff I'm listening to and liking:

Return to Forever - Romantic Warrior
Soft Machine - Bundles
Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
The Budos Band - Burnt Offering
Moloch - Merkabah
Gutbucket - Sludge Test
Bohren & der Club of Gore - Sunset Mission
Sonny Sharrock - Ask the Ages


FWIW I'm coming from metal and electronic (idm, ambient, downtempo) music. Thanks in advance

Hey user if you're still here, I just started taking piano lessons and I'm really into Thelonius Monks style of playing, I also really like Charles Mingus any recs? Also any tips for a practicing jazz pianist I'm practcibg as much as I can while going to school.

>i wasnt sure if that stuff would fit with his taste or not
Yeah,, but I feel like those two albums should be in anyone's library

Anyway, you've got me listening to Ornette Coleman for the first time in years man, haven't heard that since I've been in school Cheers

what's your opinion on Don Cherry?

hmmm, well try art tatum and jellyroll morton. as for solo monk, i mean theres really no one like monk and there never will be. hes easily in my top three favorite musicians of all time. i cant really recc stuff based on monk besides more solo monk reocrds! theres about 5 or 6 to my knowledge and theyre all fantastic. thelonious himself, piano solo, alone in san Francisco. if you want more catchy monk albums the thelonious monk trio (pic related) is really really amazing, catchy with short tunes and some my favorite monk melodies. but monk really doesnt have any bad records, his concept was so strong and he was so himself that everytime he played it pretty much just sounded perfectly like monk and thats why hes the best man.

Thanks user

the shit man. dons the shit. i mean maybe hes not techincally all together but no one else could keep up with ornette the way he did. that being said im unfimiliar with his albums as a leader but theres a group from around 62 to 63 that an user showed me once with sonny rollins, don cherry, henry grimes/bob cranshaw, and bill higgins. our man in jazz is the record.

agreed. glad your enjoying your ornette time my man!

Hey man, so ill start with this, i dont do fusion or jazz rock so i cant help you so much there but ill do what i can but it will mostly be free jazz.
Listen to anything ive already posted in here just to fimilarize yourself with jazz but specifically for you
Coltrane- Stellar Regions
Mingus- Blues and Roots
Roscoe Mitchell- Sound
David s ware- live in the world
Monk- Thelonious monk trio
Sonny Sharrock- Black Woman
Charles Gayle- Repent
Coltrane- Live at the Village Vangaurd again
That should get you started, if you like something in particular or hate something i just said and im still in this thread then let me know and ill see what i can do, happy listening! jazz and metal are very similar in groove and aggression.

Naisu geto

ill just recc pianists cause otherwise id be here all night. first off, congrats on beginning piano and taking an interest in jazz! so here we go. paul bley, bill evans, red garland, mccoy tyner, andrew hill, mal waldron, bud powell, listen to every single monk record seriously theyre all perfect, oscar peterson, cecil taylor, keith jarrett, erroll gardner, ahmad jamal, george shearing, hank jones, jason moran, jackie byard, MASABUMI KIKUCHI his album sunrise is a masterpiece. sorry man, im trying to think of specific stuff, maybe try Booker Ervins- Freedom Book and his album Space Book, both are great and i think youll like jackie byard! OH SHIT man go listen to an album by the ran blake trio called sonic temples.

as for practicing the piano...well have good time feel, i mean like really go in on that shit. otherwise thats a broad question but my best advice is just to ALWAYS no matter what anyone says, play yourself just be yourself like ALWAYS also relax when you play like dont think too much, leave space and let the sound go by and just listen once in awhile to what the other players are doing behind you. you cant play jazz if your scared or timid. power comes in the absense of fear.

Thanks a lot, I'll give those a listen.

Don Cherry's Orient is fucking great, my man

ill go check it out. i know scaruffi likes mu but i havent listened to that yet either. its weird that i havent really, im such a huge ornette guy.

hngggggh

The duke

>miles davis
>good
haha

Lot of Jazz heads seem to really dislike Wynston. Do you actually dislike his music and why?

Allan holdsworth?

Best/favorite Yusef Lateef record?

Been listening to a ton of brubeck lately. Mostly his Time albums, Time out, in, further out etc. Rec me something similar plz

...

>Coltrane
>Good

No one would even know who Trane was if Miles didn't make him famous.

If you want a monk sound hit the keys very hard and were rings on your fingers so there's extra weight

>famous = good
THE FACT

>Charles Gayle- Repent
my nigga this is a top tier free lp

Black codes is the only mildly progressive or interesting album hes ever made and his politics as far as jazz goes are literally fucking insane and have set the music back 110 years in the public conciousness...i honestly believe he should be put in jail for cultural treason against america.

Eastern sounds my man

Live at oberlin by brubeck and chris potters underground band

Yeah, air raid will ruin your life. Better bassist and drummer. Also beyond quantum by anthony braxton is good. Glad you like it, gayle is an interesting figure!

Lots of good jazz over in

coltrane was already gaining shitload of attention before miles got him lmao

OHHHHHH lawdyyy

Best jazz album of all time right here.

What is this and where do I find more?
clyp.it/nir5xjvd

sounds indian-y

I feel like it's more Saharan.

Great thread! 2 questions for jazz user:

1) Bitches Brew: Entry level or the real deal? I liked this album before I got into "real jazz" but still love it even now. My favorite Miles by far.

2) Where do you rate Charlie Haden among bassists? I think he is just the greatest.

what's your favorite bennie moten 78 from the 1920's?

what instrument do you play

Bitches Brew is incredible, nothing sounded anything like that at the time. He really pushed the boundries.

Haden is probably my personal favorite jazz bassist, he's great.

tfw another dumb thread goes by and nobody mentions Peach Orchard

Youre first questions dumb but charlie haden is god damned incredible. Beautiful tone, beautiful melodies, understood ornette better then anyone, powerful time. I love charlie.

I really dont care about anything made before like 1935.
Upright bass, i play electric too but i dont love alot of the music i end up playing on it. Im in love with upright. I play all the time.

Where do get a good solo version of Fleurette Africaine? MIngus is spraying cancer on the money jungle one and the piano suffers :(

Dont be disrespectful. Mingus' playing on that record is beautiful man. Theres very few recordings of that tune. Ellington wrote it with mingus in mind, its usual for him to write specifically for the musicians hes playing with, so he didnt re record it to my knowledge. The only version i can reccommend but admit to not being familiar with is gary burtons renditions.