Why won't Spaniards let Catalunya go?

People should have the right to self-determination. By oppressing Catalans you'll only alienate them, eventually resulting in a bloody revolution.

Cause Spaniards are evil bastards who steal everything and don't care about anyone's feelings, they all should die in the most painful way possible and burn in hell forever

They should ,Catalans are arrogant cunts.

España es una MIERDA ya que nosotros los CASTELLANOS gente de bien y protectores de la fe CATÓLICA y la pureza de nuestras benditas TIERRAS tenemos que compartir estado con garrapatas ARAGONESAS,JUDEIDIZANTES CATALANES,puercos VALENCIANOS, mofetas BALEARICAS,perras VASCAS Y NAVARRAS,vacas GALLEGAS gitanos MURCIANOS,moros ANDALUCES y traidores LEONESES. Cada día rezo a San Fernando rey cruzado de estas nuestras SANTAS tierras y a DOÑA Isabel de Trastamara para que resurezcan y nos guie a la gente de BIEN, LOS CASTELLANOS, a una nueva época dorada de FE, CULTURA Y PROSPERIDAD COMO ACOSTUMBRABAMOS ANTES DE TENER QUE AGUANTAR A LA CHUSMA DE ESTA ESPAÑA SIN MORAL NI VALORES.

>Esta pasta

Jordi turn off your proxy pls

>a bloody revolution
Have you been to Cataluña?? Todos son flacos

Fuck off

This is something I never understood
Why would you want to keep people against their will in your country?

based Spaniards should oppress Catalonians as much as possible :>

Bavaria on the other hand needs to be independent

Thats a really strange sentiment, coming from a Greek.
One would think that regarding your history, Greek people would have sympathy with a minority beeing opressed by a foreign nation

Because somebody have to pay something to national treasure

That's rich coming from teuton

Iirc, the Catalans contribute disproportionately to the Spanish economy, the government is sucking the wealth out while simultaneously trying to surpress the culture there for quite some time.

I am actually a Russian coming from Estonia
So I know very well what it's like to be an opressed minority

The burden that it is Andalusia is too big
Just LOL

Catalans are merchants and intellectuals, they can't fight. At least Basques tried to set up an underground state and Galicians cucked us for good (once with Franco, once with Rajoy). All Catalans can do for their freedom is whine.

We Hungarians are highly sympathetic towards the plight of minorities fighting for independence , afterall we have about 3 million Hungarians outside of our country. We know better than anyone what it feels like to be oppressed

>Iirc, the Catalans contribute disproportionately to the Spanish economy, the government is sucking the wealth out
Bad argument, Catalunya grew at the expense of central government industrialization programs and protectionism that benefited the region, as 19th century Galicians put it "We have to buy Catalonian cloth and textiles when the British ones are 1/4 the price and just as good", and several regions like Galicia declined as a result of the government betting in Catalunya instead

>while simultaneously trying to surpress the culture there for quite some time.
Good argument, no matter what they tell you people in Iberian capitals are absolutely brutal when it comes to not tolerating regional identities.

The only thing that is saving Catalunya and the Basques is the looming independence threat, if it weren't for that they would just be pushovers like the rest of the regions that haven't threatened independence.

no.

>Bad argument, Catalunya grew at the expense of central government industrialization programs and protectionism that benefited the region,

Wasn't Catalunya always more developed than the rest of Spain though?

The Catalan question is more complex than simply an "opressed" minority, see

Franco developed catalunya as it was fucking trash heap after civil war.

Didn't Franco also outlaw the Catalan language?

If by outlaw you mean make certain state things in central government language, yes.

No one gave a fuck what language you spoke, but no one is going to have retards speaking gibberish in official documents and such.

Not like it is today which puts it way ahead of the other regions except for the Basque country (the other region that gave a realistic threat of independence), Galicia, Asturias, Leon and even some parts of Andaluzia were a match for it.

Plus, it also benefited from large internal migrations which grew the population, some will argue this was detrimental to the culture, but it was a boon for their relative influence within Spain.

Just like The Troubles, if there's one thing that history teaches you is that to deal with central governments that just don't give a damn about your region and would like to see it as a protectorate, your best bet is an armed threat of independence, even if you don't mean it.

Spain has always benefited the eastern provinces, they are currently richer than the other provinces.

Thank you Portugalbro for well thought out, informative posts.

Not sure I would agree with that since the northern, western and even parts of andaluzia were historically more than a match for the eastern provinces, you only started seeing the differences you see today after industrialization began and especially after the government tailored economic policies to fit them.

Spain has stayed together since 1716, why would it fall apart now?

Does Portugal have the same kind of regionalism that Spain has?

southern provinces always were poor illiterate shitholes.

since 1490s my nigger

...

Spanish state has existed since 1479

They don't need it...

Spain has literal nations within the country, we do have regions that the Constitution mandates be given some form of government but every central government has been in violation of that mandate since no one has implemented it yet and the only party that tried to raise that issue was banned.

I would not compare it to a Basque vs Galicia situation but it's certainly like a northern Castile + Cantabria vs Andaluzia situation.

Historic series data shows that not to be true, they were only slightly poorer but the centres of activity were actually quite rich.

Not really. It was a union of different kingdoms that have different laws, languages... it really should have stayed that way.

see It's even mandated by the Constitution in that it is our right to have some form of regional government, for example currently there is absolutely no legal way that I can vote in the interests of my region, since regional parties are banned and there is no other form of political expression on that level.

But regions are the Districts?

nice propaganda.

>Historic series data shows that not to be true, they were only slightly poorer but the centres of activity were actually quite rich.
Bro, it was poor as shit, people were midgets.

No, the districts are "artificial" constructs like the hundred french departments which mostly do not represent a cultural region.

Plus, you cannot vote for the representative of a district anyway.

"Rights" are a social construct enforced by the government. Our government doesn't recognize de right to self-determination, do they don't have such right. Also fuck catalans.

Your post is propaganda and the reason why Spain is going to broke into pieces.

>spain
>broken

Show me the actual regions

those who look like moors will be placed in moorland, end of story, no white skin = no spanish citizenship.

Whites in southern provinces are equals to whites in northern provinces, non whites are not equals to whites.

But you do have regions. Don't they have a regional assembly for passing some laws and regional governing, even if it's a very reduced actual power?

99% of all white true spaniards regardless of regional birth are loyal to spanish nation.

I am in favour of Catalonia voting on independence.

I want Spain to become a union of peoples, but I'm aware that central gov't makes it impossible. I'm madrilean and I know most of the fault is ours, no one here will ever recognize it thought.

you're boring

>Not like it is today

Catalonia is the 4th or the 5th today. Indebted af and their rating is Greece tier.

If they don't view themselves as spanish then let the retards go lmfao, fucking retards will get conquered and deported later for being retarded anti-spaniards.

If someone doesn't see themselves as Spanish then they shouldn't be in Spain.

Spain belongs to Spanish people only.

LOW IQ CHI

Catalans and Basques always felt very Spaniard. It has been all this centralization that has destroyed that.

>it really should have stayed that way.
>Castile should be the only kingdom contributing anything for the empire while Catalans, Valencians or Aragonese didn't have to pay much taxes and barely send any soldiers
We should have killed all Catalans after we liberated it from the French (after the Catalans ask them to invade them).You people are worthless and just demand privileges

please, stop posting on here

>Catalans and Basques always felt very Spaniard. It has been all this centralization that has destroyed that.
Catalans are just greedy and useless.They are like jews with the IQ of gypsies

>merchants and intellectuals
Extremadura has produced more culture than Catalonia and it has always been pretty empty

>Extremadura has produced more culture than Catalonia

I'm not Catalan

Then you will ask yourself how Spain was broken into pieces

>Catalonia
>Barely any literature
>Muh Dalí
>Muh Gaudí
I can't think of a less productive people in the world.

Well, I'm actually greek so don't lecture me how to be minority

>Then you will ask yourself how Spain was broken into pieces
I don't care about Spain at this point.A bunch of whinny morons won't change my opinions.Catalans have contributed nothing to this country other than crying and betrayals.

Just LOL

Prove me wrong.Catalans are literally worthless and only rebel,ask for protectionism for their noncompetitive companies that relied on the highest tariffs in Europe and cry some more.Literally worthless people

Why are the Spaniards ITT arguing at each other in English?

LMAO what a bunch of cucks.

Not going to waste my time

Yeah defending treacherous Catalans is pretty hard

Sorry, went for lunch, this corresponds somewhat to what the regions are, except it's missing a tiny part in the northeast which is technically leonese in culture

We don't, we should have, but we don't. There was an interesting paper from 1999 that showed we were pretty much the most centralised country in europe even though some coountries were just starting to get through their commie past

Well, in terms of actual production, they would probably be second, I don't consider Madrid to be a cultural region for example

Also, the Beiras are large regions and shouldn't really be divided this way, but rather by their dialect which is an important measure. Blue is the northern dialect, green is Leonese, red is the Beirão from Coimbra and the rest is the southern or Lisbon dialect which also has regional variations but a common origin.

Like I said these aren't nations like in Spain and we all belong in the same country, but there are very significant regional identities.

I thought Estremadura was the part in North East Alentejo.

Basque country>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Scatalonia, also known as Israel 2.0

lol, fuck them, they wont escape, they own 55% of our debt.

>2017
>Greeks are a minority