Germany $270 billion trade surplus this year(highest in the world, all time record)

>Germany $270 billion trade surplus this year(highest in the world, all time record)
>Greece died for this

Enough money to support 2 million immigrants :)

Why is that a problem though? I don't know much about economics, but isn't it because of the weak Euro?

right now it's a problem for others kek

US is legitimately butthurt about it

It represents a lack of demand/investment in Germany.

AKA exporting your economic weakness

It's a result of you guys having no kids as well

>>Well, the economics are complicated but it works like this
>>A trade surplus is by default a trade deficit in another country
>> Normally, the other country would reduce its currency worth to restore equilibrium
>> Eurozone states all share the euro so they can't do that
>> Germany keeps making money while poorer EU states are locked in a system where they keep losing

It works the same way in the US as well, but there the federal government subsidizes the part of the country that is losing out. It's way more complicated as a subject but that's the basics

>>Greece died for this

UK had an exception. They wouldn't have adopted euro.

im unironically glad spain cant do this. during the recession our currency would have gone super undervalued and we'd be farmed for cheap labor like pajeets by evil companies. would rather have no jobs

...

Instead you got a 20% unemployment? Do you all fail to realize that this is levels that we haven't seen since the Great Depression? Spain (and everyone else) would have completely recovered by now if it wasn't for the euro

30% actually when it was at its worst, now its something like 18%, projected to be 15% next year as we didnt fall for podemos

maybe you're right but as i said i unironically prefer unemployment to evil companies

if anyone cares
5 (five) % of those credits were actually used to improve the country
the rest went to the banks
most was used to pay older interests

shitmany will not lose this game
kraut media did a very good job

Why do the Spaniards, Greeks, Italians not just leave the Eurozone, then?

Instead we got 25% unemployment and a literal banking crisis

Wtf I love banks now

its under 20% now, and what banking crisis? like i give a shit about banks kek

>alt-right narrative shattered
What did Reddit mean by this?

Also

Umm it was 25.2% at its worst in 2013, and now is 18.8%.

Guess what the major reason is behind the fall....

A lot of old people are retiring.

The CJEU has ruled that it is not possible to leave the eurozone without completely leaving the EU as well. Wanting to leave the eurozone is not the same as wanting tariff barriers back.

The alt right meme has got to be the worst thing to come out of this election

trade deficit was never the problem for countries like greece, spain and italy. it was gross incompetence in handling public finances.

the moment things went belly up in 2008 countries like greece who had been essentially conning their entire economy, and countries like spain who bet it all on real estate, both trusting that the good times would never end crashed hard.

the biggest mistake was letting them stay in the union and subsidizing their mess like the good cucks other EU countries are.

>hurdur just ignore the fact Spain lost a decade of economic growth
>ignore the immense pain Spaniards have suffered
>ignore the fact our political system is broken and half the people want to leave Spain
>ignore the 400,000 that already have in the last 8 years
>ignore the birthrates that have plummetted to all time lows
>ignore the 100% Debt/PBI ratio

So they are reluctant to leave the Eurozone, since it means possible retaliation by tariffs?

But is that actually worse than what is already happening to Greece?

>would rather have no jobs
Congrats you got your wish.

The reality was the that the Eurozone created economic imbalances.

Couple that with America literally shitting itself and crashing the world economy, and you get the Eurozone Debt Crisis of 2009-2013.

Remember that Spanish banks had the highest capital/loan ratio in the world. We still got killed because everyone else collapsed

>possible retaliation

Jajajajajaja

>greece
Greece hasn't left yet

>Thinking all that money goes to Germans
They have that huge trade surplus because they need to support South Europe and rapefugees.

You know the Netherlands did bigger budget cuts than Greece was supposed to do. And nobody complained here because it was the sensible thing to do.

Yet the Greeks cried with crocodile tears.

Well technically Greece ceased to be a sovereign back when they demanded a solution for their problem or getting out of the EU and Germany told them to be their vassal state for all eternity or face destruction. Now Germany has bought literally all their assets, ports, companies, etc.

>Greece hasn't left yet

I know, that is what I am asking.
What can be worse than what Greece is going through? Bordering on 200% government debt, 25% unemployment and expected to pay it all back. It is obscene.

sovereign state*

The fact that the EU has a monetary union, but no fiscal one is a problem.

If we're so rich, why is our elderly poverty rate higher than the EU average? Why have our wages stagnated since the early '90s while Polacks earn multiple times as much as 20 years ago? Why are you such a ungrateful whiny cunt? Will you run to daddy America for help now like you always do? Worthless fucking potatoheads, the lot of you slavs.

>A lot of old people are retiring.

there's always old people retiring, so what?

>the immense pain Spaniards have suffered
nice meme

This is a chicken and the egg problem

Southern Europe only turned shit after 2008. Before that it was growing rapidly as expected

But now when Southern Europe is weak, Germany's trade surplus increases, which makes Southern Europe weaker, and...

Yeah, I wonder why they chose this part.
Just leave the Euro and reform in a sensible way. Greece will become a very poor country with Drachma, but at least one with jobs and development options.

yes, you were neck deep in debt because you were the middle of a property bubble and building like madmen hoping that all those british retirees would flock to spain to buy what you built. then the finance crisis hit and all the eggs in your basket got smashed. unlike greece you at least managed to salvage your public sector from complete meltdown, I'll give you that.

>Germany's trade surplus increases, which makes Southern Europe weaker
And how exactly do you draw this connection? How is our trade surplus at fault for your failure? Maybe our completely botched common currency is, but not our national trade surplus.

>and...
and it means the euro should die

I mean, why can't Greece?

My city :_c i'm figuratively weeping

normally if they had a floating currency they would have restored the equilibrium by depreciating.

The euro is punishing inflation by unemployement and low growth.

That's a very simplified version. Basically what is going around on TV. Trade deficits are a problem. Greece did lie about their economy but actually EVERY country in the Eurozone (with the only exception being that of Luxembourg) has lied about meeting the convergence criteria so let's not make it a moral argument. Greek debt was in drachmas before joining the euro, which was basically nothing. The country was the fastest developing country in Europe even with all the "corruption". The current crisis that the southern states is entirely the result of retarded austerity policies rather than the result of their own pre existing mismanagement. Finland should be a very good example of a country getting cucked by the euro while it did not have the problems that the southern countries did.

i dont get why everyone wanted to join the euro and to stay in it, then

>Why have our wages stagnated since the early '90s while Polacks earn multiple times as much as 20 years ago
YOU'VE REACHED YOUR TOP AND YOU JUST CAN'T GET ANY HIGHEER
YOU'RE IN YOUR PLACE AND YOU KNOW WHERE YOU AREEE
IN YOUR SHANGRI LAAAA
Poland hasn't and was still under the ghost of gommunism 20 years ago. Why do you think the USA grows at a "mediocre" rate of 2% while China used to grow 10%+ in the past few years?

The idea that we "reached the best state we could be in" is plain wrong. There are daily improvements in technology, medicine and services. There are also lots of people in Germany that struggle to make ends meet.

east Germany was under "gommunism" too and its effects on the nation can still be felt.

Because you dumb heartless fucks don't spend any public money on those who most need it. Instead your import Syria and co.

syrians are the one who needs it most, lel.
you cannot make a moral argument and, at the same time, pretend that people from near east and africa hellholes dont need help.

Mátate shitposting autist

Ask yourself why we were able to invest beyond our means

That is a very good question. At the time they believed that having a single currency would make all the risks associated with exchange rates would disappear. They recognized that trade deficits due to asymptomatic shocks in the economy would arise but they believed that a thing called the Internal Devaluation Mechanism would take care of that. It's a bit complicated to explain why it doesn't. Others believed that once the euro was in place, the EU states would sort of be forced to create the rest of the necessary structures. Tbh it meant different things to different people.

As we say in the Netherlands:

Eigen volk eerst.

That's not the point, sorry for quoting a song I like. The point is that Poland had much more room from improvement than Germany has had, you've been one of the top tier countries since the XIX century

DDR was a small part of your country population and landwise and was helped by the richer parts of your country to get where it is today, after all you live in a federative republic. 100% of Poland's economy was under communism.

>Because you dumb heartless fucks don't spend any public money on those who most need it.
YEAH BECAUSE WE HAVE TO FLUSH IT ALL THROUGH THE EU TO DUMBFUCKS LIKE YOU

>Mátate shitposting autist
t. unemployed

And Poland did like shit until it joined the EU and got pumped full of OUR money. These ungrateful fucking bags of trash.

but there was no mean will behind it, or was it?
like, germany and france teaming up to colonize the rest of europe, as it often is portrayed.

Don't speak like your country doesn't have interests in that. the EU is a federation in almost all points of view but the political one.

Did you lose 27% of your GDP?

gj german media

>>ignore the fact our political system is broken and half the people want to leave Spain
Spain literally has the smallest diaspora amongst European countries in terms of % of the population.We barely leave the country and when we do we usually return fast

Still waiting for 3 trilions german marks as the war reparations

No. Starving HIV infested Somalians are.

I don't see you importing them en masse

Your stupid idea invited all the migrants and horrible handling of it convinced 2-3% more Brits to leave the EU

Germany gave us nothing.

College student*

>FLUSH IT
Those are loans dumbass

I think in total 3%.

You better shut up or we'll make you a non-country again. We did it before.

This, gib monies plox

Now you are too busy chocking on muslim cock to do anything. You also swapped tanks for broomsticks.

Debatable...countries are not a hive-mind and governments change. The euro had been in the making since the Maastricht treaty. Tbh it is widely reported that Germany did not want to join the euro but France knew that the currency couldn't work without the Germans. Allegedly, Kohl and Mitterrand came to the agreement that Germany would be allowed to absorb eastern Germany in return for joining the euro.

[Citation needed]

Our people leave because they have to
Not because they want to

There was no such thing as a housing bubble.There was a credit crisis which collapsed the sector.Spanish property is pretty valueable and the demand for it is growing back as expected.People want a house in Spain and this won't change for the moment

>3%
lol

yes yes we're poorer than somalia

maybe you

proof that accepting refugees is good for the economy

>Allegedly, Kohl and Mitterrand came to the agreement that Germany would be allowed to absorb eastern Germany in return for joining the euro.
No actual evidence of this

Furthermore, it was Germany's sovereign decision to reunite or not.

...

We recovered from the blow in 2014. Thanks for asking.

There was a housing bubble. Problem is that we are all speaking in hindsight. It is very hard to determine if a bubble exists at the moment. Some had even suggested that Spain might be having a housing bubble but the prevailing economic theory is that the government shouldn't interfere in the economy. Still some attempts were made to control it. It's just that the crisis from the US came at just the right time before those initiatives had started.

Still waiting for 6 trilions shekels for the holocaust

Didn't ask but whatever

Doesn't the entire Irish population live overseas?

Technically...but it wasn't gonna happen without everyone else forgiving the war debts to enable it.

Matate

1. That's not necessarily accurate
2. That's irrelevant. There are 2 million more spaniards living abroad today than in 2008. That didn't happen because everyone got rich and decided to buy houses in Germany

Absolutely, completely wrong. The crisis that has been plaguing greece is entirely their own fault, caused by the said mismanagement of public finances. The financial crisis only brought to the surface how critically unsustainable the greece public sector was in the first place. The austerity measures (which they would have had to implement either way but now get to blame germany) were put in place solely because otherwise they would not have gotten the bailout they needed to not go bankrupt.

As for the imaginary "devaluation solves all problems" meme: the devaluation of an independent drachma wouldn't have meant shit considering the amount of debt greece had accumulated.

nice
fucking
meme

growth literally objectively slowed down after joining the eu

>Greece died for this

Actually all of the south did, but northeven accumulation isn't sustainable either. This whole farce called the EU will collapse eventually.

>Matate
t. psychology student

>There was a housing bubble
Was it really a buble when an entire continent and half of an other wanted to buy our property? The rates are coming back to 2008 levels and property will keep rising in the near future this would mean that another bubble is starting to grow or that Spanish property is a valueable asset.The same happens in places like London.Themain problem was the lack of credit and investement which collapsed lots of business that were starting and needed credit which is usually forgotten. Either way I still expect the Spanish economy to be amongst the fastest growing ones in Europe for a while.
>Doesn't the entire Irish population live overseas?
Muh diaspora doesn't count
>There are 2 million more spaniards living abroad today than in 2008.
And they are coming back.After having 25,5% of unemployment and being in the EU it is pretty normal for young people to emigrate, but in the end Spaniards emigrate very little compared to the rest of Europe

>diaspora
heritage

In reality all that money bailed German and French banks. For the time being at least.

>the devaluation of an independent drachma wouldn't have meant shit considering the amount of debt greece had accumulated.

yeah, that is why the answer means: default.
greece in the eurozone is a failed enterprise, and anyone who invested his money there should lose it.

So i see how one could trick Greece into joining the Euro with the promise of better credit ratings, but how did a large and (formerly?) wealthy country trick itself into a currency that hinders its competitiveness?

>greece will approve this

This is cringe. Entirely their own fault? the IMF has officially admitted that the policies they imposed upon Greece were wrong yet you must still spout the daily mail crap? Greece is the only troubled country whose debt arose (in part only) due to public mismanagement. When that happens, it is clear that the problem is not with countries overspending. It is the trade deficits (plus ridiculous EU rules on budgets and inflation) which are the source of the problem. As for austerity reforms, they don't make sense, they are designed to punish Greece rather than help the country and I am just appalled at that. You only have to actually look at them. 40% of income is taxed? Did Greece suddenly move to Scandinavia? Business have to pay a years tax in advance? 25% VAT More pensions cuts when 50% of the Pensioners in Greece live below the poverty line? Just how will these austerity measures ever ever "help" Greece? It is a scapegoat to keep the others in line

I fully agree with you.

But: since you oppose austerity during crisis times, you are probably an advocate of increased government spending (Keynesianism). In France, government spending has only been going up since 2008 - and it did not help them much either.

>be sweden
>control almost whole commonealth
>be greedy enough to try attacking polish saint monastery with the most sacred thing for poles
>lose to 100 monks
>Poles see this as a miracle
>they don't lose even single battle anymore
>Sweden actually loses
I am always impressed how Sweden caused the greatest genocide of polish culture and its greatest ressurection in the same time. In Poland we call Deluge as "Potop" which is the same word which describes a flood sent by God in Noah's myth. From our perspective Swedes were "purifing power of God" sent to rebirth polish culture.
>pic related destroyed Sweden

When I studied tax law I remembered some example my professor gave me that reminds me of Greece.

If a business makes a profit, then it can borrow money.
If you borrow money, and use it to make more money than the interest rate is. Then you can borrow more money.
If you borrow more money, and use it to make more money. Then you can borrow even more money.
If you again borrow some more money, use it to make money. Then you can borrow some more money again.

As long as you keep making money, you can keep borrowing and actually investing in your company to grow and get richer without any negative consequences.

This works as long as it goes well. If you have 1 bad year and you suddenly have to pay for five loans.. then you might go bankrupt.

Imagine if you borrow 100. Reinvest the 100, so you get 100 overhead. 10 interest rate. And the loan has a revenue of 120.

Then you get 10 richer each time you loan money and reinvest.

But if you make a revenue of 90 one year. Then you get 20 in the negative.

>More pensions cuts when 50% of the Pensioners in Greece live below the poverty line?
That's not so bad actually because there still some pensioners who get more than they deserve and an aging population. There were some reforms even before the troika took over. But poor pensioners are being hurt too.