Britfag here..............I have a question for amerifags

Britfag here..............I have a question for amerifags.
would Sanders have beaten Trump if he had gained the democratic nomination??

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perhaps

If you look at the data Republicans didn't make any gains in terms of their numbers Dem's just failed to make an appearance. That lady who got fired from the Dem's who was doing all that shady shit for Hilary should be to blame. Bernie was filling up stadiums. Hilary, well look at the numbers the Dems didn't come out in droves to support her.

Without a doubt.

Would the democrats who voted for Hillary also have voted for Sanders, or would he have been too socialist for them? Would moderate democrats have rallied against like republicans did for Trump?

>Republicans didn't make any gains in terms of their numbers
this is blatantly incorrect
nice story tho

Trump also filled stadiums, and their message was almost identical. Bernie would have won, but the bias being pushed by the mainstream is the biggest disappointment.

I was a bernout that jumped on the train, because fuck Hillary Clinton, Globalist Fucking Cunt. I find it hilarious that hipsters and 99%ers were voting Clinton. Absolute retards.

Of course. This is what both sides were afraid of.

i think it was the same with biden. i think the dnc told the party it was hillary's turn regardless of other people's qualifications.

Yeah probably. Basic left wingers hate Trump enough they would have voted for Lenin's ghost. Nobody really was excited about Hillary but lots of people were excited about Sanders. He would have taken a bunch of independents too.

they didn't.... the votes weren't so much pro Trump they were anti Hillary, vice versa as well

yes

It would have been a lot closer, but Bernie would have still lost.

Every poll that asked this question showed a land slide yes

Probably.

Alot of the areas in MI and WI, went Trump as he was not Hillary. That's literally it.

They voted for Sanders in the Primaries, at a considerable margin.

Bernie seemed far better at energizing the Democratic base. Trump had similar votes as Romney. Clinton had far less then Obama did in 2012

>believing the polls

On the other hand, Lenin's Ghost would've probably voted Trump to weaken US economically and geopolitically.

no, sanders is a fucking commie. We dont like commies

People are stupid to support him, glad he lost.

Its quite possible too bad Hillary rigged the electoral college. So well never know

Or Lenin's ghost would have led a Proletarian uprising, and seized the means of Production

Sanders couldn't have won Ohio, Florida, Nevada or Virginia over Trump. I suspect he would have won the rust belt except Ohio though.

i think the question is whehter those who voted for trump would have been as motivated to with snaders as the alternative

so much mud was slung at hilary, sanders wouldnt have had the crooked baggage as he was fighting against the swamp too!!

he was more popular than HRC but beating Trump? Maybe.

I woulda prefered him over HRC or Trump.

Could maybe set us straight.

Atleast he radicalized a fair few of the younger voters to Socialist view point. Actual Socialist, not any of this Social Democracy like him.

Bernie and Trump had similar energy, both had big turnouts at rallies.

A lot of what helped Trump win is leftover Bernie working class voters in Michigan and Wisconsin, hard to say what would have happened with two complete outsiders in the race though. No states could be relied on to vote traditionally.

I think Trump would've dominated him in the debates because Sanders was weak as hell in the Dem debates, but I don't think that would've given Trumo the edge to win.

It's a toss up really.

Get ready to feel the Bern, you neo-Nazi Trumpcucks. There's a storm coming, in the form of millions and millions of disaffected Americans sick of having the American lie shoved down their throats by racist, homophobic Nazis like you and the mainstream media. Don't like what I'm saying? Go back to Faux News.
Capitalism has to be the greatest failure of organised government ever- but it came with the greatest lie ever told as well. Everything is fine. Keep consuming. Keep producing. You are what you own, and if you don't own anything, you are worthless.
The capitalist Ponzi scheme is falling, Sup Forumsrothers, just a little later than Marx predicted. It is coming.

This

so why on earth did they think she was the right one to go up against him......i know it seems obvious in hindsight

If you look at the exit polling, you'll note that it was the demographics that Bernie won quite handily in those swing states who went to trump. They weren't pro-Trump, they were anti-establishment. They know the system is rigged in numerous ways and the only two "main party" candidates who said it was were Trump and Sanders. Both drew massive crowds thanks to their "I'm an outsider and I will help destroy this rigged system to help you" speeches, but we now know the DNC misread the tea leaves as it were, thought they should help the media push a "pied piper" candidate via Trump by casting the entire RNC as corrupt, evil, racist, etc. and that the American people would be so disgusted by Trump she'd just get the presidency. The issue is that Americans don't vote against something, they vote FOR something generally speaking. Hillary had no message other than "You don't want Trump, do you?" And the media filled their airtime and papers and web articles extensively about Trump and the American people don't tend to like mainstream media sources to the point they instead heard "this guy is an outsider who thinks the system is rigged, he's clearly loony!" Well, obviously not loony enough to turn out anti-Trump voters for the Dems who are just as pissed at the system (of which Clinton was the poster child of) as their fellow Republicans.

"Better to burn it down and rebuild than try to just patch" was the mood in this election, and Trump is the match while Clinton was the patch.

>just like Marx predicted

Oh yes, his "natural emergent socialism" that was only brought about through bloody revolution. Can't wait for you degenerated to be crushed under heel.

she seemed the obvious choice, plus the whole 1st woman pres thing would have been attractive to a lot of citified morons who didnt uuderstand the anger of the rural masses

I really hope this is just a pasta

i think brexit and the us elections shows polls are shit run or biased by city media out of touch with the rest of the country

I'm actually not *entirely* sure, but I've heard a lot about the Dems purposely ruining his chances. To me, I think he just didn't get enough votes in the Primaries because he was slapped with the
>socialist
label, which as you know, Americans are terrified of anything that even resembles socialism (except for the postal system, social security, police, ambulance, fire safety, etc). So, we were made to accept Hillary, even though she ultimately lost (which I'm starting to think was intentional).

this trump voter would have voted sanders because he was even more fuck the establishment than trump was

so yes

sanders is a socialist no?
thats a huge difference

Most def, fam.

I met two trump voters. Both young, smart professionals and they were singing Bernies praises.

Even Trump himself bigs up Bernie.
The DNC shot itself in the face.

90% tax increase on anything and everything to help dumb people pay for college is not the answer.

...

>rigged electoral collage for nomination
>didnt bother with actual election....

tin foil shortage in your state

yea probably

Workers controlling the workplace. Working towards a class less society, were people work because it is personally fulfilling, and not just to survive.
That sounds quite nice if you ask me

thanks putin

Nobody is "socialismphobic", as I'm sure you libs like to think. We rightfully have gripes with the system.

Nobody wants their work to go towards someone else or the government, which are incompetent at running most things anyway.

Socialism only works in homogeneous nations, at which point it could practically be defined as national socialism.

Yes he would. Everyone wants free shit. He is a socialist and I'm sure someone will argue "No he is a Democratic Socialist it's different." Socialism is garbage.

Peoples incentive to do good at their job is money. More money = more opportunity.

You take away that incentive and your left with purposeless workers who have no motivation to do better or exceed expectations. Personal fulfillment only goes so far. I for sure didn't feel personally fulfilled when I was painting fences as a fucking kid.

yeh the negativity on both sides was ridiculous.....fear mongering and selling hate rather than hope
I think youre right about americans voting for rather than against and she had too much shit attched to her and trump didnt
i think sanders would have won in light of this

?

>you libs
I'm a moderate, which still translates to 'socialist' to MANY of the so-called "right."

But even you know socialism !== national socialism for a number of reasons.

If it's such garbage, how come the Social Democracies are usually the happiest?

cnn.com/2016/03/16/travel/worlds-happiest-countries-united-nations/

The margin for Trump would have been much wider. Bernzie wouldn't win a presidential election if he was the only person on the ballot.

PA might've gone red still, with the Amish swing vote kek. Other than that it looks good.

Because the Democrats would rather have Trump in office than a fucking communist.

Sanders is an idiot, he would have lost the election harder than Hillary. Socialists aren't trending in Usa, no matter what a bunch of retarded millennial kids tell you.

you know that equal distribution of wealth would make you by far richer than you are, right? right now you're working your ass off for some fat rich guys 3rd car and a nice diamond for his side chick. nothing would be worse than the current system. you literally defend and fight to keep your worst nightmare believing that the actual solution would be worse.

National Socialism at least proposes a motivation factor for work (as flimsy and formless as racial motivation is), whereas regular socialism just says "ima take this k?"

>falling this hard for the American Meme

Most of them, but even more importantly Bernie would have taken the independent vote. All the data had shown then, and now, that Bernie would have wiped the floor with Trump.

100% yes

he would have won Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania easily and thus won the whole thing


not sure which way florida wouldve gone but it wouldnt be needed for bernie to win anyway

My best bet for a Sanders v. Trump Election

Redistribution of wealth is a childish fantasy. The entire theory of socialism requires the state to fill in the role of entrepreneur (build means of production), and the contemporary an-comms seem to think this role can be filled by people. Simply untrue.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; national socialism is the only form that has been proven effective.

Bernie had a lot of traction in Florida, he'd have won it. I've also heard that he likely would have turned a few red states blue. The Democrats fucked up big time this election in screwing him over. They'd have not only won the presidency, but Bernie would have energized voters to vote democrat down ballot and they could have retaken Congress and Senate.

it actually says "here have this" to everyone but the top 1% of filthy rich guys

Populist left V Populist right
Yes, the left would win.

They exist because actual superpowers support their right to do so. Otherwise any real country would walk in and own you. They're like the art student that only lives well because daddy has a real job.

yes

but currently captitalism, the odds are staked towards the few.....so your work and hard earned agins go to the few rather than shared fairly

thats hardly a better system and the gap just gets wider and wider with each decade and more so with the digital economy

pros and cons to every system but i think bernies fairer society woud have been a worthwhile project

Thank you. Simple fact is that, even today, Sanders is still the most popular nationally elected politician (something like a net positive rating of +20 or so, which is way higher than anyone else right now). And despite everything the media, the DNC AND THE REPUBLICANS threw at him, he still came out looking clean. Fuck, when they tried to hit him on buying a new house, most comments I read were "dude is old and he apparently sold another house to get this one, what's the issue?"

Sanders had a message, had actual plans, would have carried the minority votes at probably right around where Clinton did but would have taken a huge bite out of Trumps white lower-to-middle class vote which probably would have helped. Fuck, even Jill Stein wanted the guy running and probably would have said "no running this year" if he won the primaries, which would have netted the dems around an additional +1% of the vote in some states and would have swayed more Libertarians to him too (after he bowed out, a fair number of his supporters went to Johnson, so it's safe to say they would have stuck on to the Dems had he been there too).

Again, Dems and the DNC fucked themselves over and even the talking heads are saying "the Sanders-Warren Dems look like they are about to inherit the Democratic party if push comes to shove" to the point they may be making those same people the party leaders. Sanders may even become the #2 Dem in the Senate if he wants it (he has said he doesn't want to be the #1 in the Senate but left all other places open).

You can't expect to live off the fat of the 1% ad infinitum, you will eventually need to tax the rest of the upper class, middle class, etc...

Thats way it must go in stages.

First Capitalism (For inovation)
Then as manufacturing and service jobs become automated

Then we could shift toward Socialism
Where jobs would be more creative and fulfilling. (Film, Art, Baking, Theatre)

People's mindsets overall need to change.
>the needs of the many
>outweigh the needs of the few
>or the one
The Vulcans would probably laugh at us, if they had less control over their emotions.

ive never met a single person who spouts the "socialism works in theory but not in practice" meme and actually has any understanding of the 'theory' beyond the dictionary definition of what communism or socialism are

>mainstream media

I didn't know the mainstream media supported Trump

nevada would probably be blue too

Bernie would've already been moved into the white house if we won the nomination. it would've been disgustingly unfair for Trump. But the DNC had to fuck that up by forcing Podes.. I mean Hillary on us.

literally wat

>doesnt understand political distinctions

commie=/=socialist

Capitalism has seriously failed at present. 1% controls 99% of the wealth, and a society can not survive that way. Velocity of money is a big deal. Ideally you want money to turn around fast. You get money, then spend it on bills, it goes back into the economy, and flows back to you eventually. That doesn't happen anymore. The money flows upwards and mostly stops there. The 1% are hoarding money at such a large rate that it's seriously killing the economy and the nation. Capitalism was great to get us to where we are, but a new socialist system is needed going forward.

it being hard to accomplish doesn't make it less ideal.

Possibly , he could have convinced me to vote for him over trump

By constantly airing his stuff non-stop, writing tens of thousands of articles and going on and on about him, all that meant to Americans is "he's a major political force who says he's going to help me by taking on the establishment" because distrust of the media is at a near all time high right now. If the media had wanted to take him down, they should not have aired any of his shit, like they did with Sanders.

yes, trump won because he was anti-establishment and so is bernie. idk why the DNC put the epitome of establishment against the only anti establishment. should have been toe to toe and bernie would have won.

An interesting theory, but again this requires huge state control over everything else.

What you're suggesting, and correct me if I'm wrong, seems to be a society where people are free to do as they wish while the government controls the economy and provides them with basic income.

I'm this society you would have a surplus of musicians, artists, etc... Liberal arts would be hilariously oversaturated. And not all of them would be good at what they do.

Personal fulfillment can only go so far in society, it's harsh, but jobs need to be done for society to run.

Almost certainly.
I only voted for Trump to keep Hillary out.

Most sensible person on Sup Forums.

Neoliberal capitalism is dead in the water. It has failed on its own terms.

usuncut.com/politics/bernie-sanders-would-have-crushed-trump/

read it and weep

That's not supporting him. That's inadvertently helping him. That's not the same thing.

Commies are socialists, you fucking idiot, and Bernie is one.

Trump fucking IS establishment you retard.

hes so fucking rich hes 1% of the 1%.

or is he the only "man of the people" billionaire on the planet?

This is why I keep saying national socialism is the one form that works.

Hitler blinded the people of Germany together based on the Germanic identity ("I propose that Germans help, Germans etc..."), whereas modern socialism just says "you must help each other because I demand it". Humans aren't that altruistic to blindly help those they have nothing in common with.

we didnt want a woman so why would we elected a socialist cuck jew?

...

Why did he propose to end the carried interest loophole that he himself has taken advantage of? Why did he expose Soros, Goldman Sachs, etc. and the other big lobbyists in politics?

You've been blinded by the narrative.

You dont know shit about politics and its very evident by your post.

Please kill yourself on livecam

Trump has already said none of his promises are promises, but merely suggestions. He won't get rid of the loophole.

I have zero respect for Bernie. He deserved to get fucked over because he won't do anything about it. He knows they rigged the primaries against him but he still supports Hillary after that? He's a pussy. The rest of the world would treat him like a pussy.

>the truth is what i say it is

i cant wait for you and your cohorts to be dead. The most arrogant self interested and childish generation this country has ever seen, the late baby boomers and whatever comes after them. The absolute definition of special snowflakes, sure millennials have some SJWs and other annoying cunts but your entire generation acts like the world owes them something. Truly despicable.

The Democrats messed the fuck up and boosted Hillary, the criminal, instead of him in the media. I'd say most likely.