ITT: Musicians that have redeemed themselves

...

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bris.ac.uk/news/2011/8116.html
wired.com/2011/12/hit-potential-equation/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion_(Carly_Rae_Jepsen_album)
youtube.com/watch?v=1iu4gqxWeYE
youtube.com/watch?v=OHp6dNRQxPc
youtube.com/watch?v=uNFS0qTYYfY
youtube.com/watch?v=wPme6ecqhlk
youtube.com/watch?v=WjDdqAWsLEk
youtube.com/watch?v=MUdKrtsrCBI
youtube.com/watch?v=ET1MhXiUDVg
youtube.com/watch?v=CFjqZpZZ5jI
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Oh did she write and produce and perform this track completely by herself?

5 million in one day

suck it, haters

You start.

How much do you think her label paid for those plays?

4,862,113 views*

it's still shit for such a major singer, she's irrelevant now.

lol no

she's the best. But I always liked her.

It really isn't

Lana the plant del rey

>having producer credits

I'd cut my dick if she knows what is Ableton

don't deny it

Thats a god damn army

because they listed the different people played each individual instrument, It still sounds better than some shit put together by a single person in FL studio

She was never lost, you just grew up and finally realized it

From the End, Young Like Me, Sirens, No Kung Fu

Idiots

>From the End, Young Like Me, Sirens, No Kung Fu
What are these?
>Idiots
Not an argument.

kek

Its so cute how they call her a composer and producer

she doesn't fit in that. it's practically an Emile Haynie song.

lol you guys are fucking pathetic. your qualms with lana del rey are more qualms with the way that most pop music is made today. she's not uniquely bad or evil. she's actually one of the better popular/pop artists around right now. funnel your hatred toward actual hacks, not someone who has the right amount of talent to work the system the way it's set up to be worked.

>your qualms with lana del rey are more qualms with the way that most pop music is made today.
Not relevant. People shouldn't get free passes in art

>pop overall is bad so you can't criticize Lana
sit down, son

lol I agree, but do you really care that much about manufactured "art" that you feel the need to critique literally every artist involved in it? clearly not, otherwise Sup Forums would solely be people trashing literally every pop artist. instead, it's mad threads about lana del rey when she's actually better than the vast majority of the people in her particular lane. not saying she's an immaculate artist, in fact i don't ever intentionally listen to her, i'm saying the kind of complaints i'm seeing in here are fucking ridiculous. did you even read my comment beyond what you quoted?

The music isn't interesting in anyway

that's fine, i don't listen to her really. i don't care if someone doesn't like lana del rey, i just don't get why the focus is always on her instead of countless other pop artists (many of whom have one hit song and then fall off the face of the earth, unlike lana del rey clearly since you fucks can't stop talking about how bad she is).

calling her music bland and saying that she depends heavily on others isn't really that provocative a criticism, when that's the case for most other artists in her lane. and she's doing a better job at staying relevant and selling than most of them. it's more business than art, unfortunately, but that's my point - you're wasting your time trying to finely critique the artistic qualities of something that was created solely to make lots of money.

Pro tip: All art is manufactured.

>but do you really care that much about manufactured "art" that you feel the need to critique literally every artist involved in it?
Art is art. Do you really care that much that you feel the need to distinguish between manufactured or non-manufactured art?
>clearly not, otherwise Sup Forums
Sup Forums isn't one person and it's certainly not me.
>better than the vast majority of the people in her particular lane
How so?
>did you even read my comment beyond what you quoted?
Were they relevant? Or does it all boil down to "art is art"

>, i just don't get why the focus is always on her instead of countless other pop artists
Like who specifically?

no shit, but pop is largely about formulas. a lot of the music discussed on this board isn't about a formula to make money, it's just an artist's vision. "manufactured," yes, but in a very different way than major label pop starts.

>it's just an artist's vision
According to this pic It's not really much of her vision, is it?
>but in a very different way than major label pop starts.
Not really.

>Art is art. Do you really care that much that you feel the need to distinguish between manufactured or non-manufactured art?
you're missing my point. it's like if roger ebert were to sit around bitching about the artistic qualities of a movie made solely to entertain very small children. yeah, it's art, and it's part of the medium he's interested in, but he's wasting his fucking time. that movie serves a specific purpose, and the way he would generally designate quality in a film is thrown out the window with that particular genre. same with major label pop stars, they all depend heavily on a massive amount of other people, and it's almost never the vision of that particular artist come to fruition. it's whatever is popular and will sell. it's not meant to have some grander degree of artistic integrity. that's why you're wasting your time.

>Sup Forums isn't one person and it's certainly not me.
no shit

>How so?
by the measure of pop stardom, she's lasted longer and been more successful than a lot of pop artists to come out in the last five years. otherwise there wouldn't be a lana thread all the damn time. also, while i don't particularly love her music or anything, it's at least more pleasant to listen to than most of the things i hear on the radio from other similar artists.

>Were they relevant? Or does it all boil down to "art is art"
really, what i wanted to get across was the very last part, where i said to focus on actual hacks instead of someone who is playing the pop game, and playing it well.

name pretty much any other pop artist to come out in the past 5 years or so. yes, there are exceptions, like i definitely prefer carly rae and ariana grande to lana, but in terms of popstars (like people who actually have nationally/internationally popular hits) many of them disappear pretty quickly.

>According to this pic It's not really much of her vision, is it?
read my comment again. i'm talking about most of the music discussed on this board, specifically as opposed to major pop artists. that's exactly what i was saying, that it isn't much of her vision. and that that's the case for most actually popular pop music. so the criticism falls on deaf ears, because they're following the formula and making the money.

>Not really.
you literally just pointed out how lana's music is extremely separated from her individual artistic vision. you think it's the exact same as art without a middle-man or assistance, so to speak? like, artists who write and compose their own music, like a great deal of the artists we discuss on this board?

>it's like if roger ebert were to sit around bitching about the artistic qualities of a movie made solely to entertain very small children.
What's wrong with this? Art is art. it doesn't get a free pass because of it's target demographic.
>same with major label pop stars, they all depend heavily on a massive amount of other people, and it's almost never the vision of that particular artist come to fruition
Is it though? Songs like "Good Vibrations" or "Strawberry Fields Forever"?
>by the measure of pop stardom
Oh a non-musical measure? Not relevant.
>where i said to focus on actual hacks
It seems we are right now.
>name pretty much any other pop artist to come out in the past 5 years or so
Did you miss the word "specifically"? Try again.
>i'm talking about most of the music discussed on this board
Oh like Classical and jazz and noise and so forth?

Take a look:
>Score = (w1 x f1) + (w2 x f2) + (w3 x f3) + (w4 x f4),
bris.ac.uk/news/2011/8116.html
wired.com/2011/12/hit-potential-equation/

>What's wrong with this? Art is art. it doesn't get a free pass because of it's target demographic.
when you're not the target demographic, yes it does. adults are not the target demographic for the movies of small children. people who care about music beyond background or dancing music are not the target demographic for mass produced popstars.

>Is it though? Songs like "Good Vibrations" or "Strawberry Fields Forever"?
don't be obtuse, you know i was talking about modern pop music. for instance, Carly Rae Jepsen, an Sup Forums darling (who I agree has better music than lana generally) also relies very heavily on others. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion_(Carly_Rae_Jepsen_album)
look at the writers in the track listing, then scroll down to personnel. don't try to tell me that she has any more "artistic integrity" than lana del rey just because her music is better. it's manufactured pop.

>Oh a non-musical measure? Not relevant.
THAT'S MY FUCKING POINT

>It seems we are right now.
no one has said how she's a hack beyond doing what basically EVERY OTHER POPSTAR DOES. she has producers and writers out the wazoo, if you want to call literally all of modern pop music hacks, that's fine, but it's pointless to focus on just one of them, in that case. it's a systemic problem, not an individual one.

>Did you miss the word "specifically"? Try again.
just for you, i pointed out above how an Sup Forums darling is just as guilty. yet she doesn't get shit on for it, she's celebrated.

>Oh like Classical and jazz and noise and so forth?
what's your point?

thank you for this, very interesting stuff.

>yes it does. adults are not the target demographic for the movies of small children
Incorrect. The Lego Movie, for example. Or Spongebob, etc
>you know i was talking about modern pop music.
Nice goalpost shifting
>Carly Rae Jepsen, an Sup Forums darling
Show me where Sup Forums (who isn't one person anyways) praises her
>THAT'S MY FUCKING POINT
Except you were praising Lana for non-musical aspects (longevity, marketability). That is not music. Please discard that logic here
>if you want to call literally all of modern pop music hacks, that's fine
It's a case by case basis.
>just for you, i pointed out above how an Sup Forums darling is just as guilty. yet she doesn't get shit on for it, she's celebrated.
Show me where she's celebrated?
>what's your point?
Is there a reason you are overlooking discussion about more serious music on Sup Forums? Or just cherrypicking?

doesn't matter what the thread is about, if there's a lana del rey, grimes or annie clark pic as the op's pic, the thread will turn into a waifu shitshow.

>Incorrect. The Lego Movie, for example. Or Spongebob, etc
those are examples of children's movies with elements specifically geared to be of higher quality with adults. i'm talking about like actual little kid dribble, which is made solely to distract little kids, using known formulas for doing so.

>Nice goalpost shifting
you were being obtuse. and the whole "goalpost shifting" argument just tells me that you can't actually argue with my point.

>Show me where Sup Forums (who isn't one person anyways) praises her
you must be new here, kiddo. and stop mentioning that Sup Forums isn't one person. i fucking know. but it's an echo chamber, and there are a lot of similar ideals floating around.

>Except you were praising Lana for non-musical aspects (longevity, marketability). That is not music. Please discard that logic here
i wasn't "praising" her, i'm saying that's a measure of success in modern pop music, which is why that music gets made in the first place. i can't believe how many fucking times i have to explain the same damn thing to you in different ways.

>It's a case by case basis.
yes, some stuff that makes it on the radio doesn't have 1,000 writers and producers behind it. a lot of it does though, because that's the way that major labels ensure the success of their popstars.

>Show me where she's celebrated?
you're being intentionally frustrating if you think Sup Forums didn't rave about Emotion when it came about, and for a long time after. I still see carly rae threads on the regular.

since we both know that she's celebrated here, care to explain why her art has so much more integrity than lana's? (protip: "it's better" isn't a reason).

>Is there a reason you are overlooking discussion about more serious music on Sup Forums? Or just cherrypicking?
I specifically pointed out that music like that is extremely different from major label pop efforts. YOU EVEN JUST CALLED IT "MORE SERIOUS MUSIC" which would mean a difference in artistic integrity.

She's the best.

The Jew shills on Sup Forums slander her everyday.

what's the stupid Sup Forums racism for? get the fuck out of here you fucking retarded cunt

Lana writes all of her lyrics and melodies herself and the producers write the chords, this is how she has described it before, she has sole credit on almost every AKA Lizzy Grant track

>Strawberry Fields Forever
>After recording the second version of the song, Lennon wanted to do something different with it, as Martin remembered: "He'd wanted it as a gentle dreaming song, but he said it had come out too raucous. He asked me if I could write him a new line-up with the strings. So I wrote a new score[41] (with four trumpets and three cellos) and we recorded that, but he didn't like it."[32] Meanwhile, on 8 and 9 December, another basic track was recorded, using a Mellotron, electric guitar, piano, backwards-recorded cymbals, and the swarmandel (or swordmandel), an Indian version of the zither.[42][43] After reviewing the tapes of Martin's version and the original, Lennon told Martin that he liked both versions,[44] although Martin had to tell Lennon that the orchestral score was at a faster tempo and in a higher key (B major) than the first version (A major).[29] Lennon said, "You can fix it, George", giving Martin and Emerick the difficult task of joining the two takes together.[45][46] With only a pair of editing scissors, two tape machines and a vari-speed control, Emerick compensated for the differences in key and speed by increasing the speed of the first version and decreasing the speed of the second.[16] He then spliced the versions together,[44] starting the orchestral score in the middle of the second chorus.[45] (Since the first version did not include a chorus after the first verse, he also spliced in the first seven words of the chorus from elsewhere in the first version.) The pitch-shifting in joining the versions gave Lennon's lead vocal a slightly other-worldly "swimming" quality.[47]

Yeah and Lennon """wrote and produced and performed""" Strawberry Fields all by himself

Sometimes Jewish shills really are just Jewish shills user.

And let's not pretend the Jews don't run the music industry.

>i'm talking about like actual little kid dribble, which is made solely to distract little kids, using known formulas for doing so.
How do you know if it's Kiddie Dribble or Higher Quality Children's Art?
>and the whole "goalpost shifting" argument just tells me that you can't actually argue with my point.
I already did,. You had to shift your goaplosts to not be wrong. care to comment on that?
>you must be new here, kiddo. and stop mentioning that Sup Forums isn't one person. i fucking know. but it's an echo chamber, and there are a lot of similar ideals floating around.
Ooops you didn't seem to answer my question! Try again?
>i'm saying that's a measure of success in modern pop music
Oh look another discussion about non-music elements. You're on a roll!
>you're being intentionally frustrating if you think Sup Forums didn't rave about Emotion when it came about
Prove it.
>care to explain why her art has so much more integrity than lana's?
Quote me where I said it was
>I specifically pointed out that music like that is extremely different
You also said you "were talking about most of the music on this board". That would be artists such as Radiohead or Death Grips, etc. Are they pop artists to you?
>Yeah and Lennon """wrote and produced and performed""" Strawberry Fields all by himself
Are you referencing other members of The Beatles, the band he was in whom the song was credited to?

you clearly either can't fucking read/comprehend what you read, or you are just intentionally dodging points. i'm done responding to you lol.

Not an argument.

Have a nice day poptimist

>better end the conversation because I'm out of arguments

user, but you're clearly attempting to praise her...

Lol look at the LanaShill go

Be honest - how much is her label paying you?

>out of arguments
See Didjya read em?

those weren't arguments as much as they were a refusal to admit when you're wrong.

What argument is this? The songwriting isn't credited to George Martin, despite the fact that he wrote the orchestration. Lana just doesn't try to scam her producers out of a proper credit.

>She was never lost, you just grew up and finally realized it
youtube.com/watch?v=1iu4gqxWeYE
Is this what you would call reedeming?

>The songwriting isn't credited to George Martin
That's because he didn't write any of the songs
>Lana just doesn't try to scam her producers out of a proper credit.
Well, they actually wrote the majority of the songs
You mean this post here

kek, the reverse shill. Nice work Schlomo.

What do the Jews hate her so much? What did she do to them?

Arrangements don't count as part of the song, silly.

Songwriting credit = melody and lyrics. That's all. Whether or not there's a string section has to do with producing/orchestration, NOT songwriting

Talent you say?
youtube.com/watch?v=1iu4gqxWeYE

i feel like you would argue with someone about what their name was, even after they showed you their driver's license and birth certificate.

False equivalency because user hasn't given any valid arguments.

i didn't say she was a spectacular artist or singer, i said that she had the right amount of talent to play the game of major label pop releases

It's already been posted, looks like you faggots have only one evidence against her vocal ability

youtube.com/watch?v=OHp6dNRQxPc

Scaruffi have Ultraviolence a 7/10. She didn't need to redeem anything, my fellow sir Sup Forumstant.

you literally called the music discussed on this board "more serious" music, and still refused to admit that there was a difference between that and the kind of pop music lana del rey engages in.

>fighting this hard to slander art you don't like

either shill or mentally ill.

Her music is mediocre kitsch and she's quite unattractive, I'm not sure why anybody still cares enough to be posting about her. Nobody gets this worked up over Lady Gaga or some other has been popstar. Good top-40 popstars are so few and far between its kind of silly to be talking about this kind of stuff.

your only argument is that she had co writers and didn't produce the songs herself yet you can't give a reason as to why her music is objectively bad

She's passable at best. Passable with modern studio practices that is.

t. some Jew

>It's already been posted, looks like you faggots have only one evidence against her vocal ability
Oh, wow, people need to present evidence to prove that someone who's a professional musician can actually sing. What does that tell you? And no, it wasn't stage fright and it wasn't just a bad night either.

i agree. she's not much different from most other modern popstars. yeah, lady gaga is a much better singer. yeah, carly rae jepsen makes "better" music. but she's not doing anything especially bad, especially by comparison to the vast majority of other pop, none of which ever gets brought up and shit on here.

is that supposed to be alot?

>you literally called the music discussed on this board "more serious" music
Incorrect. You said the majority of this board isn't, and I notified you of some of the serious music here, thus disproving your claim. Did you just not understand what was being said?
>objectively
Try again.

the guy you responded to posted a 10-minute video of evidence to the contrary.

What, you think I'm gonna turn around and start posting about Beyonce or some other middle-of-the-road shit? You're like those people that complains about the state of modern music and turns around and listens to Immortal Technique. I don't understand where you're seeing any difference between what you hate and what you're listening to.

LMAOOOOOOOOOO THIS FUCKING COVER AYYYYYYYYYYY LMAOOOOOOOOOOO

show me where i said "the majority of this board isn't serious music." i fucking dare you.

>You're like those people that complains about the state of modern music and turns around and listens to Immortal Technique
this sentence makes no sense.

> I don't understand where you're seeing any difference between what you hate and what you're listening to.

Because it's good? And most of the shit I like sells in the 4 figures I'm sure.

...

They're both low-brow pseudo "deep" pop artists that retards praise as the saviors of all music while they're actually on exactly the same level

i'll actually go ahead and show you, yet again, how you're wrong either due to a lack of reading comprehension or intentionally being a fuckhead:

your post here () references my post here () which says "artists who write and compose their own music, like a great deal of the artists we discuss on this board?"

learn to fucking read you fucking rube

I really have the hots for Lana, it's not like she is an 10/10 supermodel but she looks like that 7/10 cutie in your class that wasn't a whore and was actually a kindhearted person.

Lennon-McCartney was a convenient fiction for the lawyers. If they were released today, he would have a writing credit. Times have changed.

pleb filter
youtube.com/watch?v=uNFS0qTYYfY
youtube.com/watch?v=wPme6ecqhlk
youtube.com/watch?v=WjDdqAWsLEk

Great. And how do we know that she isn't using auto tune or pitch correction? You do realize that pedals like BOSS exist? And she sounds passable in that video, which would indicate that she's in fact relying on auto tune and pitch correction. Is Britney Spears a great singer too? Let me remind you of this:
youtube.com/watch?v=MUdKrtsrCBI

Oh I get it, the Jews are mad at Immortal Technique because he tells the truth about 9-11 etc.

What did Lana do to your whacko tribe?

BOSS VE-20*

>"artists who write and compose their own music, like a great deal of the artists we discuss on this board?"
Show me where I was specifically replying to that statement.

Also I don't seem to be bale to see where you are replying to my other points? Why is that?

>A mainstream pop star
>Pleb filter
Do you actually hear yourself?

why can't you faggots discuss Lana without it turning into an autistic spergfest

>mainstream
>pop star

David Bowie has had more chart hits than she has

YOU FUCKING INVALID, READ THAT POST. NOWHERE IN THAT POST DO I SAY WHAT YOU CLAIM I SAID. THE ENTIRE POST IS SAYING WHAT YOU (presumably unintentionally) ADMITTED LATER, WHICH IS THAT THE MUSIC DISCUSSED ON THIS BOARD IS "MORE SERIOUS" THAN SOMETHING LIKE LANA DEL REY. YOU FUCKING QUOTED THAT POST HERE () WHEN YOU TRIED TO POINT OUT WHERE I SAID "THE MAJORITY OF THIS BOARD ISN'T SERIOUS MUSIC."

QUOTE THE SPECIFIC PART WHERE I SAY THAT. DO IT. NOW.

She's not even bad just boring, and that song is boring as fuck.

>THE ENTIRE POST IS SAYING WHAT YOU (presumably unintentionally) ADMITTED LATER, WHICH IS THAT THE MUSIC DISCUSSED ON THIS BOARD IS "MORE SERIOUS" THAN SOMETHING LIKE LANA DEL REY
Then why are you contradicting yourself?

Still waiting on you to reply to my other points. Is this cherrypicking working for you?

i thought her only hit was a shitty edm remix of one of her songs

This thread is trapped in 2012 endlessly repeating arguments from 2012 with people who obviously have not cared about LDR or heard anything from her since 2012 but still feel the compulsion to post their opinions anyways

her first album has some great upbeat songs

youtube.com/watch?v=ET1MhXiUDVg

youtube.com/watch?v=CFjqZpZZ5jI

it's a bunch of paid shills attacking LDR.

They're going to do it no matter what.

are you fucking high? i can't even suss out what you're trying to argue anymore.

for the third time, i'll ask you to quote where i said that "the majority of this board isn't serious music" like you claimed I did here (). you linked to the post where I said THE EXACT OPPOSITE before.

>your opinions are only relevant if I approve of them!
Are all LDR fans like you?

Wrong