Christians and other believers of the Heaven-Hell dynamic, I have a question that will really make you think?

Christians and other believers of the Heaven-Hell dynamic, I have a question that will really make you think?

What happens if my whole family dies, and me being a good Christian while my family being non-believers/bad Christians/whatever goes to Hell.... how do I enjoy Heaven?

How can anyone enjoy Heaven knowing they have loved ones suffering in Hell?

I think many people, should their close family be sent to Hell, would indeed choose Hell over Heaven if it meant they could be with their loved ones. I know I would.

Come on guys, I want some discussion here.

Assuming you're not a troll, there is actually an answer to this.

Most forms of Christianity teach the "forgetful heaven" idea. Basically, simply passing through the pearly gates causes you to forget everything about the mortal realm so you can fully bask in the glory of God and His Kingdom. There are a few other ideas, but that and variants ypon it are the most common.

According to St.Thomas Aquinas you'll enjoy seeing them suffer in hell while you're in heaven. How fucked up is that?

Not a troll at all and I dont think my post comes off as a troll-post so.....????

Anyway, I have heard of the forgetful Heaven idea. But it seems like a cop-out. Like, even if that was the case, dont you think that would kinda suck to lose all memory of the people you love the most?

I'm not a strong atheist by any means but I am fairly non-religious and this is why Heaven and Hell make no sense to me.

Mediocre, it's in human nature to be selfish.

Remember user, there is no greater love than that of The Lord. All other loves you ever felt here in this mortal life will pale in comparison to His Glory. Your goal in life should be to please God, not yourself. Through pleasing God you will find true love and true satisfaction.

That's why the forgetful heaven idea works.

It may be fucked up, but I guess it also makes sense though. Revenge porn films are hugely successful, and Hell would merely be an exaggerated version of that.

Yep. That's why more people went to church in the middle ages. People love all that fire and brimstone stuff. Now that it's gone all I'm ok your ok everyone is going to heaven bla bla bla it bores people.

But heaven is a place without sin, human nature is removed from you.

Maybe thats true.... but its a scary thought to know that my love for my family here on Earth is meaningless if it all pales in comparison to God.

If God told you to murder your whole family, would you? I wouldn't. Even if God's love is greater than anything else I wouldnt be able to bring myself to do it, and I dont think many Christians would either.

True dat.

You're right, and that's the reason there aren't many true believers. True belief is often terrifying and offensive to our sensibilities when looked at objectively.

For good reason, I might add.

user, I need another Christian to talk to, so I might as well take advantage of the opportunity.

I've been struggling and feel kind of selfish, similar to what you said. I've been a Christian since I was pretty young, but over time I just sorta have been focusing more on myself, but I've mainly been struggling internally on giving up my life and desires for God. The thought of doing it just scares me and even kind of makes me angry. It's strange too because I'm a generally selfless person when it comes to every person I meet, but when it comes to God I just really want to please myself rather than Him. I just feel desires for what I want and I feel like I don't want to let go of them for God.

I know it sounds kind of plainly like the answer is "well you're just wrong." I know it's wrong. I tell myself that every day. But living for myself just makes me happy and I feel afraid of giving everything up for God because I don't want to feel miserable and deny myself everything I find happiness in.

I'm just venting at this point, but is there anything you have to say that you think could help?

I know I can't deal with it anymore. I grew up atheist went roman catholic and now agnostic. Just couldn't swallow it all and then had this moment where I thought wtf am I doing this for anyway? It's been a weird trip.

Well the deal with that is that God is beyond our comprehension. Our reaction to God and the level of his glory is something beyond what we fully know.

You only know love and devotion by earthly standards, but when those things come to God, especially in heaven where earthly boundaries are lifted, there's a whole new dimension to those things. It's getting really philosophical in here, but I think you catch my drift.

You should check out some Christian philosophy though, just to see some of those ideas. Whether or not you agree with them, some of them are pretty interesting and make you think about things in a different way. That's just philosophy in general.

I have. I'm just going through a phase of life where I'm a bit tired of philosophy in general. Also a bit bitter and twisted lately. Dark night of the soul maybe who knows. Last times I prayed I found myself swearing at God.

Fuck them

Oh boy. Whoops. I didn't think I was being that convincing. Look guys, I'm just a casual student of Catholicism trying to chime in on the conversation, I don't actually believe, but I am moral, so I'll try to advise you.

For, I think you need to sit down and have a good long think about what is really important to you. And if you're not really sure what's important yet, that's OK too. Not everyone has a calling, but if there's something specific God wants you to do, He'll let you know. He's never been shy before. As for everything else, you just got to make your decision and hope it's good enough. Try to balance things; too much either way will just make you as unhappy as this uncertainty.

As for, again, you just gotta try to balance it out. You don't have to believe everything, bit it's important to know what you do stand for and believe in.

You jesus freaks are missing out on life to secure a spot in the club after you die
Makes sense to me

That may be true but I think it's also important to go through phases of life where you're not sure what you believe in or what you stand for anymore. That's always changing and evolving due to experience and what have you.

Most of the time, the bad things in our lives are a result of our own mistakes (whether we're willing to admit it) or the mistakes of others.

Yeah but that's not my point. My point is as you get older certain things will cause you to take a second look at something you might have thought was true in the past.

Sounds like you need to get out of the philosophical and into the real for a bit. Don't think about things too hard, most things aren't that complicated.

That's true too. Sounds like you're fine then.

And that's not necessarily true anyway. I hear that a lot in stoic thought but what about someone who was born in North Korea and can't get out. Not really his fault is it? Hindus might try to explain it away with Karma, positive thought flakes might say he didn't think positive enough, Christians might say it will all work it's self out in the world to come. Or maybe life just isn't fair and it's a crap shoot.

simple: non-believers do not go to hell

that sounds like something a muslim would think

In the words of Henry Rollins. I don't like to think too much. It makes me think too much.

That's delusional. Everyone can believe what they want, sure, but you can't say you're a Christian who believes the Bible and say non-believers don't go to hell.

And you really aren't even a Christian if you don't believe the Bible in the first place.

Sounds kind of no true scotsman. You can say just about anything and claim to be a Christian seeing as there are what....3300 protestant sects and growing who all disagree with each other on how to interpret that thing?

>2016
>believing in heaven

fucking kek. where is heaven exactly? and what part of you goes there?

You'll be in so much ecstasy sucking jesus' dick you won't even think once about your family

PS re-reading your post again and I just wanted to add: you're not wrong for not wanting to give up happiness. In fact, unless you're hurting someone else, I would encourage you not to give up your happiness. You can be happy and still find room for God; it's not a bianary equation.

God shares his infinite wisdom and love with you in heaven. Your family is completely irrelevant comparison.

t. Catholic

Interpretation is one thing.

Ignoring blatant parts of the Bible and just choosing not to believe them is another. You just create your own religion at that point, and unless you yourself are God, I don't think creating a religion is going to work out for you very well in the end.

It's some sort of celestial north Korea from what I hear. Everyone worships dear leader. Only dear leader is some Jewish guy at the right hand of God who is his father but he is also his own father and is God and there's some holy spirt thing as well that is also god but they are three and one at the same time. Makes sense to me!

Best answer

now i get it thank you blessed user

If you want the actual answer that is believed in, heaven is in another dimension, and our soul goes there. That's as blatant and non-specific as I can get. Anyone who believes in heaven will generally follow those guidelines.

Welcome my brother! You're saved! Washed in the blood and all that!

To be fair, if a God makes perfect sense to you, you know it must be a human creation, because you'd expect God to be something beyond human comprehension, right?

That's not quite right I think. It's supposed to be that at the end of time our bodies are resurrected and the kingdom of heaven comes to earth. In the Judaic thought that it came from the body and soul are one. The idea of the soul floating off to heaven after you die is a pagan thing.

Yes and this is why theology gets silly for me. Just let it be a mystery and leave it at that.

The whole forgetful heaven idea I believe is pretty much spot on. GOD'S love and glory would definitely enamour us. It is gm very hard to understand and even conceive to think about however, that's just it. We aren't able to comprehend God nor understand everything he's designed. If we could understand Him completely it would make us like Him as equals which we really are not. Your families poor choices are not your fault and it wouldn't make you heartless. We all have been given free will and what we choose to do with our lives has its own pros and cons. We can choose to try and abide in a righteous moral stance or just be like rebellious children. Morality doesn't exist to atheist, as they believe in survival of the fittest. That does mean there can't be well intentioned people whether they have any faith or not. We as humans, if fully sane in the mind without mental issues have been given a moral standard inherently. That'd why whe. You do bad things you can feel bad sorry regretful. People say cop-out because 1 they don't understand nor do they listen to, they listen to reply. We can not fully understand God as he is transcendant of us. Because he is and we can't understand or grasp it doesn't mean its a cop out in fact wouldn't it also be a cop-out just to say cop out because you're ignorant of it?

I'd expect the Bible to be so well written and amazing, so full of the most incredible insightful wisdom, that it could only have been written with divine intervention.

But it's not.

hell is soo terrible as so every man for himself that day.

So... what's a soul made of?

magic and electricity?

how does it manifest itself as the same being it once was when it was on earth if the physical body is left behind?

that shit doesn't make any sense nor follow the law of conservation of matter

It has some good stuff but I'd avoid numbers and leviticus....and deuteronomy. Unless you need a cure for insomnia.

I like Kings.

GOD does make sense as there is too much intelligent design in all creation. Something cannot come from nothing unless it had always been. The "chance" that atheist believe in called big bang of nothing exploding and creating everything is far more retarded to believe then a God as "chance" requires a purpose

You're right, but that's at the end of time, not currently. If you die right now, it's generally believed that your soul departs to heaven, but it'll rejoin with a glorified version of our bodies during the time period you mentioned.

I think a soul is just the Judaic term for what the greeks would call psyche and zen buddhist would call mind. What is mind? No matter. What is matter? Never mind.

Yeah that ones pretty cool actually. It's been a while since I've read it.

>so what's a soul made of
this triggered me so hard

fuck philosophy class

As purpose would require a subject being before it , cause and effect without the cause there can be no effect

Baskets of child heads get piled up at the city gate

I agree with that there's evidence of intelligent design but beyond that God....or what ever you want to call the creative life force that banged the big bang or whatever, is unknowable. All these religious texts can be interesting and all but it's simply man trying to grapple with that great mystery.

If something can't come from nothing, how did GOD (which is something) come from nothing.

rubber, usually. the top part is made of leather.

Ah. All interesting and all but none of us can really know what happens. You can put your faith in that version of it or any other thing but really no one actually knows.

Actually for anyone who had a basic understanding of English language and can read, in the Bible it doesn't say you go to heaven nor hell imediately. It says you will reat until judgement where everyone will be there. However it is safe to assume it could be right when you die as God exist outside of the man made idea of "Time"

how did the universe come from nothing

It's got some gory shit for sure. It's also interesting in terms of early development of civilization, war conquest and monarchy and all that crap.

That's the idea though. Everyone has their own philosophical beliefs on whether or not we have souls.

But the "soul" is basically just your consciousness. The fact that you can form these complex thoughts and everything associated with consciousness is something only we can do. Animals don't have this. Etc.

But the whole deal about how it doesn't make sense and doesn't follow the law of conservation of matter points to the reason for belief in the supernatural. To believe in a soul, it's required that you believe there must be something at work beyond human comprehension. Thus, the belief in God comes into play.

It is taught that you forget all of your earthly knowledge in the afterlife in many Christian denominations.

Amazon.

How do they know, sir dubs-a-lot?

You are a soul. You have a body.

C.S. Lewis.

The human mind can't comprehend heaven.

why not, it's a place on earth

Thats just it that's why there are so many religions and predominately many branches of the original "the way" which was created by Paul which had the old testament and new testament t ideals combined into 1 which tbh I'd say the closet I've seen,religion that is, messianic Christianity. But the old testament also spewed forth Islam Judaism catholicism christianity. The list goes on with the countless denominations. All just trying to understand God. That's where they all mess up while they're lost in trying to understand God they lose sight of the purpose of trying to just be with God and of course to be with Him is also trying to abide by Him. Your friends if they don't like what you're doing tend to not be around you much if you continue to do that which they don't approve how could you expect something or someone so holy and perfect to accept any less?

God is a being that exists outside of time. He just is and always has been. Although, if you can wrap your head around it, he just "is," there is no such thing as a "has-been" if you exist outside of time.

Time is something we live in, within our universes and basically the whole dimension. Things change and age and are created, and things happen at different points in time. This is true for all things that are his creation, within this place that we live in. Where God is, though, there is no "time," thus God didn't need to come from something.

My brain actually feels kind of sore from all that, but it was kind of fun.

Omniscient always has and always will be , no begining no end, infinity... it's a implementation concept to grasp at the start.. but the more out hinkle out it the more lost you become, confusion is where people get deceived hence why lucifer, God's precious right hand man, aka the devil satan Diablo etc... you better damn well understand if he was His right hand, he knew His Word,word for word and knows exactly how to fuck with your mind. "Master of confusion" we weren't created to understand God nor everything. "Copout" you may call it however claiming Copout because there is lacking of knowledge or understanding is also a cop out in and of itself...

That's why i Believe in the void.
Nothingness Will be the reward of a life half lived,
Living for a God is wishful thinking instead live for yourself and your Dear ones.
But tf do i know maybe there are gods in higher dimensions

Yeah this is why I'm glad I'm just an agnostic heretic now. To me it's the most honest position. I suppose I still lean towards creationism in the sense that I see the amount of intelligent design in the universe and what I could best describe as self evident universal morality and beauty. Maybe that's a more Deist take I'm not sure. But either way after years of trying hard to be religious, in the Catholic sense it's kind of liberating to just let certain things be a great mystery.

Trips of thruth

From what I've heard, and I could be wrong is that a more orthodox way of looking at it is that God is not A being but being in and of it's self.

7777777777 God Wils it

Roll for God

Roll

is devine truth

Sorry I fucked up with auto correct big time

Quite honestly if what I understand from studying Greek hebrew and English text old and new testament that's what death is... nothingNess the void as you say complete separation from God

It scares the shit out of me. The whole death thing . Weather it's the void or eternity or whatever. I find it terrifying.

Eckhart Tolle's many retreat and seminar recordings have helped me on not fearing death.
The ego is the only thing that will dissappear when your body dies. We are eternal beings living in a world of temporary forms.

The void is the only truth, but also the only peace that can be found. Nothing magical about it, just emptiness.

I kind of like the Buddhist stuff that I've read on death. I should re visit that. It's always been an intense fear since I was a kid.

I am just like you in that regard. You should definitely look into Eckhart's audible selections, theres an endless amount of life changing information. He teaches about presence and that the only thing that is real is this moment. There is no such thing as past or future, the mind creates those things.

I find that gives me more solace than either being in eternal celestial north korea or burning in hell for ever and ever anyway.

That pretty much sounds like Zen Buddhism. I used to do meditation classes and retreats at a Korean Zen Buddhist temple and it was actually an amazing experience. Long time ago but I should do it again and I'd recommend it to anyone really.

He takes a lot of his source material from Buddhism and Christianity. So, makes sense. The thing about him is he strips it down to make it so accessible and simple that anyone could understand it.

Study the Qabalah. Or the teaching of hermes trismegistus, both will give you more insign on life and life after death, then reading the bible for a literal meaning.

I'll check him out. But I will also visit that buddhist temple again. Something I could really use in my life right about now, having quit a bad drinking habit and come out of a messed up two year relationship. Also having lost most of my Catholic convert faith. It's like coming off a two year cocaine bender and escaping a cult all at the same time. Hell of a comedown.

That's a load of horseshit