I'm sure there's some gun fanatics on Sup Forums. I have a question

I'm sure there's some gun fanatics on Sup Forums. I have a question.

Let's say there's a situation where you're in a field. Or in a semi public place. You know. Secluded.

>you are legally armed
>two thugs approach you and as you try to walk away they lunge at you and ARE NOT ARMED
>however you are outnumbered and they are bigger/intimidating

What would you do? Shoot them to kill? If they beat you up they could very well take your life. Who knows what their intentions were after they beat you up?

Is it legal to do that? Do you shoot them in their legs then run away? I heard that was bad to do.

Help educate me.

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wtf, am I armed or not?

Dude, if they are attacking you, you are absolutely allowed to defend yourself.

Rule one, if your ever forced to shoot, shoot to kill, otherwise they can sue your ass for damages and will likely win.

Rule ten, always carry a knife on you, after you shoot them, wipe knife clean and plant in one of their hands.

self-defense

SHOOT THE NIGGERS DEAD

the defining question here, legally, is if you're capable of fleeing and if it is reasonable to do so

if you are incapable of fleeing (they are within 21 feet or so) or you think they will endanger the lives of others if you flee, then yes, go ahead and shoot them

now I'm not saying it's always easy to tell if you're able to run faster than someone or what their motivations are, but the bottom line is that if it's found later in court (if you shoot someone for any reason, expect to be arrested and go to court, a cc permit doesn't make you law enforcement) that you were able to flee and instead shot someone, you might be looking at some serious bills or even prison time

tl;Dr, carrying is as much about avoidance as it is gunplay, stay out of trouble. your gun is there to prevent death or serious harm, not cause it needlessly.

You are armed. They are not.

How can you prove they were trying to attack you?

Shoot them and then call the cops/ambulance. Don't worry about aiming for the legs, that's a quick way to fuck up, miss, and get your gun stolen from you.
So long as you had reason to fear for your life and you inform the police of this, you should be alright.

shoot to kill. A strong enough person can kill you with a punch (or when you hit the ground limp you can get brain damage) and once you're overpowered they can do anything they want to you.
Better hope you can draw fast, if they're only a few feet away you'll be firing point blank.
This is why you always cross the street when there's a black walking your way or following you.

The position they were shot in, and how they fell will tell a story to forensics.

When I did my security training in britbong, the instructor couldn't stress enough that in self defense, only do what is reasonable. Which to me translates as "What you can explain in court".

If you shoot a couple times to incapacitate then you can explain that.

The 5 post mortem shots in the back of the head....a little bit harder.

There was (is) a video on YouTube of a guy who's walking home from work. It's late and there's been some burglaries in his area, so he's legally conceal-carrying.

As he's walking along, there's a couple on the other side of the street arguing to fuck. He hits her and she goes down.

Our gun carrier has already started recording the argument on his phone, and when the guy hits her, gun-guy says something to him about it.

Punchy then turns to gunny and starts giving him shit. Starts crossing the street towards him asking if he wants to go.

Gunny drops his phone and pulls out his gun (we assume cos we can't see). There's a lot of shouting. the chick gets involved, giving gunny some shit too.

After a few minutes, the cops show up and gunny puts his gun on the ground and hands up. The police restrain him and search him.

After they've figured out what's going on, they uncuff gunny who retrieves his phone, but keeps it recording.

The reason why I've posted this long as fuck post is because at this point, gunny tells the cop something like, "you can't get into a fist-fight when you've carrying a weapon". Which the cop kinda agrees with.

So... TL;DR: The cop's attitude seemed to be, that you can shoot someone who's attacking you.

you shoot them, you're going to prison, everytime.

if you even brandish your firearm - you're going to prison, everytime.

What you do is you do and say the same things as Zimmerman

Firstly, if you draw you must be prepared to shoot. You can't afford to let anyone call your bluff, take control and establish a boundary verbally (eg: "Don't take another step or I will fire) and fire if that boundary is breached.

Secondly, if you do fire, exercise restraint. Whether or not your shot kills someone is irrelevant, it's how you behave that matters. If you empty a magazine into someone like an absolute madman a judge isn't going to like that. If you stand your ground and use the minimum required force to protect yourself then you're golden. The chances are that once you fire on one person the other will flee, let him go. If he also attempts to violate the boundary you've verbally established then that's his bad luck.

Draw down on them and take a few steps back. Try to diffuse the situation since I am not meeting them with equal force. If they continue to antagonize or advance, they're both dead.

I live in a 'stand your ground' state so giving them a second chance is arguably a bit generous, although it is covering my ass a bit since the setting is semi-public and there may be witnesses.

Regardless, this is cut-and-dry self defense. The only problem is - if they live then it's your word vs theirs. Depending on the state you live in (US), you may or may not have to retreat. Some states afford you the luxury of 'standing your ground'. Others - you must make your best effort to retreat into a situation where you are cornered. Then and only then may you retaliate, and even then there is no clear precedence set. There have been murder convictions for someone shooting a home invader.

i know alot if gun owners and each one of them said that if you are going to shoot in self defence than you need to shoot to kill, because if you dont you can leagaly and financialy get fucked by the attacker.

The reality is unfortunately this varies quite a bit state to state. In Florida, for example, if you are white and legally armed, you only have to legitimately feel like you are in danger. Other states, like Maryland for example, you are not likely to be legally armed because they don't issue permits without extreme cause, and you are only allowed to use deadly force to repel deadly force. Still other states, like Virginia, they issue permits, but there is no right to stand your ground in the law, so you again need to be faced with death or serious potential harm with no ability to retreat. To further complicate things, many states have case law that contradicts or alters their codified law, again Virginia is an example, where several cases create no real duty to retreat, despite the law.

All really complicated. Advice is know the law, make sure you are emotionally and financially ready to fight it out in court if you have to. Try not to shoot anyone. Most thugs will back off if you point a gun at their head. Remember the 21 foot rule.

Wrong.

-SNIFF-

Negative, Ghost rider. Stop living in a shit state.

Eat them alive, on the spot. Start by biting and ripping at a loose piece of skin without hesitation, the cheek to hurt them a fair bit.. People freak the fuck out.

t. liberal soccer mom

Depends on the state you're in. If I was being attacked by two people I'd present and, if the attack did not immediately and unambiguously stop, engage. I'd shoot for center mass not to kill but because it is the most efficient means of stopping a threat. In my state, Illinois, I would not only be in the clear criminally but also civilly.

Not every state has a duty to retreat.

>no witnesses
>shooting them makes them martyrs
>shoot self in head
>both taken to jail for murdering white man

that's the only win in this situation

yeah, sorry, I forgot that not everyone lives in the frozen, capital-ran, Hillary voting state that is New Somalia

one day I'll live in the southwest, one day

It is very hard to not kill someone. Why do you think most police shootings end up in the perp being killed? Because it's way harder to maim him.

In your case. if you are a valid holder of a concealed carry permit, and since this definitely seems to be a situation where you would be fearing for your life, you are justified in drawing, and firing. Though, of course, try to account for each shot fired. In court, you can be charged for excessive force I believe, even if it is one round more than what they think was the right amount to fire.

Though, if there is a way for you to escape and avoid the situation entirely, do so or it could be used against you in court that you did not go that route.

Self defense is part of the "defense of justification", where in order to prove you are in the right as a defendant you need to show that was the necessary action to take and there was really no other way to diffuse the situation.

If you are looking to carry, find a deal where you are trained, and someone part of that company can testify in court that you are proved to be proficient in the weapon you are carrying.

I recently got my concealed carry permit about a week ago, still learning. Be advised laws vary from state to state, if you are an American.

Dude, I live in Chicago. We've got no duty to retreat, a decent Castle law, civil immunity, shall issue CC, and can shoot to stop forcible felonies.

I knew about the first one, second one is a good idea too.

Take out my weapon and let them know if they want to continue I will shoot them dead.

After that it's on them.

Same guy here.

Also remember to try and use verbal commands while your weapon is drawn, in court than would make you look better.

>semi public place
Semi thread

Let's get some big rigs in here.

Pull the gun. If they do not stop charging shoot once as a warning. If they continue shoot to kill 2 shots for each is a safe bet without going overboard assuming you have small caliber pistol like a 9mm. Depending on how close they are you can cut out step 2.

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Warning shots are a bad idea unless you're absolutely sure you know where the round will land.

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this thread needs more Kenworth

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Badass.

1. Stand 90 degrees from them, with your weapon on the far side. This will present a smaller surface area in case they're armed.

2. Put your hand on your weapon (they won't see it because it's on the "away" side from them)

3. Reach your free hand out in a "stop" hand gesture and yell "Stop!" loudly three times.

4. If they keep coming, drop them.

5. When it's over call and wait for the cops. Tell them your thought your life was in danger. Say nothing other than that without an attorney.

With small caliber pistols shooting into the dirt has a very very small chance to hurt anyone, shooting a good 1 or 2 meters in front of you is a safe bet usually,again if they're too close you just shoot em dead cap.

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I'm such a mobilefag

No. Want to get charged? That's how you get charged. Get your head out of your ass.

Some international

Freightliner

Shoot out of fear for your life. Shooting to incapacitate does not stand well with the law. So shot wherever you aim first. Don't worry about if you kill them, especially if their niggers

They're*

Depends on your state law. If you are in a stand your ground state, you will most likely be fine. However, there will be a huge civil lawsuit against you for.

I am a 2L (second year law student)

I'm pretty good with my fists
I guess I'd turn the lunge around and give him a shove to build space, preferably into the other one if I can.

Then draw gun and polity tell them, to fuck off.
If they keep pushing it I'd shoot them in the gut

I might take my time phoning it in if they start shouting about revenge.
Just enough so the medics don't have enough to work with.
Then claim self defence followed by shock, to explain the time laps

If they attack you, you have reason to fear for your life. Street fights don't have "rules". You can legally shoot them and you should ONLY shoot to kill. Do not try wounding, it doesn't actually happen like in the movies.

Depends on state law if it will be legal. Also, there will be a civil lawsuit.

Utter bullshit. Look at Zimmerman, for Christ's sake. If you shoot two strange thugs dead, the police will absolutely believe you had a damn good reason. Try to find cases where the armed man didn't walk away from that scott-free.

Shoot to kill if it's a nigger.

Solid advice the OP should be looking at.

In almost every situation you, the victim, have a responsibility to flee. Only when that is impracticable are you free to kill

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If you don't live in area with either specific legislation or caselaw allowing for warning shots its a downright stupid idea. Even then, if you're in a developed area theres a very good chance that you won't have any dirt near you.

My advice would be to take the ass kicking. You will be thousands deep in lawyer fees. You will face a criminal and civil suit. Even if you get off free and clear, you will be paying an ass ton for a lawyer.

You never read a torts book. Bernie Goetz?

Two guys who might cripple or kill you, and you'd let them have a field day rather than pull your gun because you're worried about the fucking EXPENSE?? Jesus, I'm a bleeding heart liberal hippie and I'm ashamed for you. Obviously you don't bother carrying a weapon. You're like that fucking friend of mine who let a black kid slap her kid and spit on her and her kid in the street because she was so afraid of the whole clan ganging up on them later. Imagine your poor fucking kid is holding his goddamn mother's HAND, and is still no safer than if he was alone in the street.
My dad, on the other hand, in a similar situation, drove down to the kid's house, kicked their fucking door open, grabbed the little turd who was eating cereal in the kitchen, dragged him into the living room and threw him at his dad, who was watching TV, and said: "If your son ever comes near my family again I'll kick his ass and then I'll come back here and kick your ass." Because I'd absolutely rather die then let some piece of shit kid spit on my kid, or let some assholes beat me into the hospital without trying to stop it. If they want to fight, you can fight, or let them fuck you.

Cool story bro. Where did you go to law school? This is the advice I would give a client.

Side note: I am a Republican that carries.

By the way if that story of about your father is real (I am sure it's not) I would love to file a civil suit against him. If you could pass that info on it would be great ;).

I think you missed the point, but if you're studying law, that explains it. Listen very carefully: THE LAW DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER. Whatever the law or courts is going to do is an abstraction that happens much much later, after you've saved your own life and limb. If you carry a firearm and you're not willing to shoot it, you're wasting your time. Carrying a gun is only sane if you would rather shoot two thugs (armed or not) then wait and see what they intend to do to you.

Are they NIGGERS .... if so hell yes people will probably laud you as a hero.

Okay, now I know you're full of shit. You can't file a civil suit against a stranger who did something on someone else's private property that caused no complaint from the home owner (in case you haven't noticed, poor families with criminal kids aren't so quick to call the cops to their homes). The situation has nothing to do with any chance of a civil suit.

if they're niggers or mexicans then it goes without saying that they were attacking you.
if they're white, you better have a damn good attorney.

I agree with this sentiment, but in the US, it's pretty much the exact opposite. If you shot an attacker in the legs in order to disable them, the prosecutor would say something like "I guess he wasn't an immediate threat if you weren't concerned with killing him.". Or something to that effect. You would likely find yourself in a lot of trouble, even though it's a more reasonable course of action, as opposed to just shooting a guy dead. It's why less lethal weapons and ammo are a pretty piss poor ideas in the US.

1: Prove that your life was in danger. (It is much more difficult than you think)
2: The law matters more than you can wrap your little mind around. It dictates every instance of your existence.

You are so wrong it's not even funny. Someone that breaks into your home can file a civil suit against you dip shit hahahah.

Remember the three C's for types of people who conceal carries.

Cops. Criminals. Cowards.

Go to fucking /k/

1. I was outnumbered and being attacked, and thought they were armed. End of fucking discussion.
2. No, sorry. Grow up. The law is something that happens long after the fact in an incredibly tiny percentage of crimes, and usually doesn't result in any conviction. "The law" is not more important than my life. Have you been arrested before, user? Charged? Convicted? I have. I know what the law is.

Failing reading comprehension, there. The homeowner could file a civil suit, not some dumbass from another state with no connection to the event but hearsay. Jesus.

don't forget. Completely badass old man that shoots niggers,

youtube.com/watch?v=dwrgvqlc8DA

Sometimes I'm damn glad to live in Texas!

1: You cannot be more incorrect. Read any criminal law/tort book.
2: The law dictates your home, education, freedoms, travel, food, water, and everything you can possibly think of. There is nothing that you do that the law doesn't touch. The law isn't only criminal law. Criminal law makes up less than 10% of the American legal system. I am sure you have been incarcerated before, it shows in your lack of education.

Off topic a bit, but I just love the argument that if one is physically unable to survive/overcome an opponent, without firearms, then one deserves to simply die! How can that get much more beautiful!!!!!!!!!!

I have no clue what you are talking about. I just read his scenario.

If you are talking about your fake white trash/hood story; than yes I would love to represent the person your father battered.

In fairness, it would depend what state this took place in. I can only practice in two states haha.

I would shoot them in the legs, but I can't guarantee their safety because it depends on how many minutes my gun can shoot per minute

This scenario would vary depending on state, but, in general, if you believe you, or someone else in in danger of grave bodily harm, or death, lethal force is authorized. Shooting to wound a leg or an arm, would get you in trouble because you, will, miss, and will likely strike a bystander down the road, or across the street. Same with going for a head shot. Center mass, until they quit doing what go them shot in the first place.

Must be stressed tho, read your local laws, they vary WILDLY from state to state.