I must admit, I really dislike Poland

I must admit, I really dislike Poland
They always just take take take, and never give anything back in return.
They are all to eager to get that sweet EU develompent money, and cry for solidarity when its about the defense of EU eastern border.
But when we need help with the refugee crisis, they are suddenly all about "flexible solidarity", and they even call us nazis for some reason.
I am just saying, there is a reason why Poland is isolated in the EU, and I hope the based Gottkanzler Schulz will be elected, he promised to show Poland that solidarity is not an one-way street

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okay

okay

agree

agree

Thank you for your support
I think Russia and Germany need to work together to keep Poland in check

2bh I am very grateful for all your help Germany

Thanks to you Poland will be back on track in no time!

Greetings from Breslau! :3

we should occupy it and split it in two, one for me and one for you

>Germany want to make the same mistake again

You seem like a very reasonable individual.
Unfortunately, it seems to me like most of your countrymen dont share your point of view
And the election of PiS and them acting against the constitution makes me really worried about future of Poland

Come on you two, not again!
*laugh track*

this time without you

agree my good friend

when do we begin?

Well, looking how the Polish ruling party ignores the constitution and acts like a dictatorship, maybe we should send some "peace-keeping forces" to Poland?

What do you mean they don't give you anything in return? They buy your cars, they work on your constructions, they submit to your laws that they are barely prepared to adopt. The development funds you send in return are a pittance in comparison to the extent of bonding nations experience under shared market regulations.

And when it comes to migrant crisis, you expect them to shoulder costs of border policy of your choosing, you literally demand a blank cheque on blind trust in your leadership.

And it's not like Germany would not pursue its own selfish national interest over that of the community. Good example of this is building a new pipeline to Russia deepening strategical weakness against Russian exports instead of investing into diversifying energy sources and consolidating the community's power grid.

as if shitmany would even give 1 single cent out of goodness
parasite krauts

>They buy your cars, they work on your constructions, they submit to your laws that they are barely prepared to adopt
Trade is something we both benefit from, and the EU laws are created with both Polish and German input, among other countries.

>The development funds you send in return are a pittance in comparison to the extent of bonding nations experience under shared market regulations.
The development funds is something we give to them without any clear, immidiate benefit to us. Sure, we are gonna profit eventually if Poland stays a friendly country that does trade with us, but it would be perfectly legal to them to stop trade with us and leave the EU, and they wouldnt have to pay back the development funds, so it is sort of a risky investment for us.

>And when it comes to migrant crisis, you expect them to shoulder costs of border policy of your choosing, you literally demand a blank cheque on blind trust in your leadership.
The Dublin agreement was temporary put out of place to help Italy and Greece who couldn't handle the influx of refugees. Yet countries like Poland, who benefited so much from German solidarty, refused to help us with that problem. For countries like Poland, solidarity seems to only count when it benefits us.

>
And it's not like Germany would not pursue its own selfish national interest over that of the community. Good example of this is building a new pipeline to Russia deepening strategical weakness against Russian exports instead of investing into diversifying energy sources and consolidating the community's power grid.
All of EU countries agreed on liberalization of energy trade in Europe. So it is the perfect right of private companies to build gas pipelines in the Baltic sea. And now Poland suddenly wants to back out of the agreement they signed aswell, just because it doesn't fit their political interest. This is just a futher proof that Poland is a very unreliable partner.

FUCK OFF PAID SCHULZ SCHILL

Schulz will win and make Poland pay.
I was unsure if I would vote for him, but this promise alone makes it worth

>Trade is something we both benefit from, and the EU laws are created with both Polish and German input, among other countries.
Trade benefits both partners, but very rarely does it benefit both partners equally. Adopting high western standards is expensive, especially in environment of a post-socialist economy, as you should be aware of considering that Germany had to pay insane amounts of money to uplift its eastern areas (and despite that generous treatment of eastern germany, it's no more friendly towards migrants than rest of eastern europe).

What you so possessively call "your investment" is but a weak offset of difficulties and demands placed on such countries. Poland owes you nothing, and if you think you can treat it, or any other member of the union, from position of superiority, then the union will have a short and failed future indeed.

>he Dublin agreement was temporary put out of place to help Italy and Greece who couldn't handle the influx of refugees. Yet countries like Poland, who benefited so much from German solidarty, refused to help us with that problem. For countries like Poland, solidarity seems to only count when it benefits us.
As you yourself admit, the present agreement does not work, and it was effectively suspended for years now, long before balkan route and syria conflict became a thing. What did you do to change this back then when migrants were already travelling through Italy unfettered? Did you make any effort whatsoever to put a more efficient system in place? Did you make any such attempt after saying "wir shaffen das"? No. All you did was demand that other countries accept arbitrary amount of migrants without giving even a hint of assurance that anything will be done to limit this amount.
Personally I'm all for solidarity and sharing the burden of common policy. But first there has to be a proposal of actual policy.

>liberalisation of trade
sure thing, and Schroeder is only there because he's such a good businessman

>Trade benefits both partners, but very rarely does it benefit both partners equally.
Agreed, Poland benefited from the trade much more than Germany. In the 90s, they were as poor as Ukraine, I remember driving with my parents through Poland and seeing carts pulled by horses.
And look where Poland is nowadays, they economy grew much more and their standard of living improved much more than in Germany.

>Poland owes you nothing, and if you think you can treat it, or any other member of the union, from position of superiority, then the union will have a short and failed future indeed.
If you think that those who contribute and those who benefit from an union are equal, I am not really interested in such sort of "solidarity". Maybe we should create a new Union, consisting only out of western Europe and those Eastern European countries who are willing to show solidarity.
Then Poland can trade with Russia, for all I am concerned.

>Personally I'm all for solidarity and sharing the burden of common policy. But first there has to be a proposal of actual policy.
kinda convinient point of view you have there, since your country profits from the EU development funds, and from the common policy against Russia, yet when it comes to you having to show solidarity, there are always some reasons for you to talk your way out.

>sure thing, and Schroeder is only there because he's such a good businessman
Schröder is actually a pretty good businessman and both Germany and Russia benefits from the gas trade. And I know that Poland would love it if the Russian gas would go through their country, so they could piss of Russia and take Germany as a hostage with their irresponsible actions, but I dont think they are entitled to our pipelines going through their country.

poland is god-tier fuck off, shlomo

>And the election of PiS and them acting against the constitution makes me really worried about future of Poland

LOL XD

You are very arrogant if you think that the development of Poland is exclusively or even mostly due to ability to trade with Germany. The fact that your standard of living hasn't improved is partly due to your blowing insane amounts of money on eastern germany and partly due to deliberate decisions of your businesses to throttle rise in wages and your social reforms.

>If you think that those who contribute and those who benefit from an union are equal, I am not really interested in such sort of "solidarity"
Then you are ignorant both of how the union works and for reasons why anyone would want to be in it. Your approach to the matter is basically the same as what you accuse Poland of having and the reason why EU will collapse if you get your way.

>kinda convinient point of view
it's a rational one. If similar approach was taken while agreeing on rules for the common currency, there would be no greek debt crisis - or at least not on european level.
Your insistence on bringing up development funds and now policy against Russia just shows how little you know of either.

>germany and russia benefit from the gas trade
again, an example of putting national interest ahead of the community one. It's fine if you want to think in those categories but then you have no ground to stand on when criticizing poland for pursuing theirs. Deepening strategic dependency on Russia is to detriment of the community and in longer term its also bad for your own sovereignty. But at least someone will make a lot of money on it.

i've met good poles, i've met bad poles. they like czechs, but despise every other slavic nation, and like to suck german dicks. is there really someone, who likes them? i kinda do, but too much nationalistic assholes kinda ruin the picture

>But when we need help with the refugee crisis, they are suddenly all about "flexible solidarity"

Germoney we can't help you with refugee crisis because those mudslims dont want to live in Poland, and unfortunately for you those days when you put someone in camps in Poland are gone. sorry.

I hate Poles too

Maybe we should form some sort of pact against their evil ways

then just leave the EU

I love you Żydku :*

t. Russian Jew

>Roleplaying countries

>You are very arrogant if you think that the development of Poland is exclusively or even mostly due to ability to trade with Germany.
Yeah, I am sure that without the European Union, Poland would do just fine, just like Ukraine.

>Then you are ignorant both of how the union works and for reasons why anyone would want to be in it. Your approach to the matter is basically the same as what you accuse Poland of having and the reason why EU will collapse if you get your way.
I am not interested in an Union where Germany only gives and eastern erope only takes.

>it's a rational one.
So if you need help, Germany should help, but if we need help, you take a "rational" approach? No thank you.

>again, an example of putting national interest ahead of the community one.
Nordstream II was created by private enterprizes, and whole EU agreed to liberalization of the Energy market, including Poland. And now they want to revert the treaty, because it doesnt suit their national interest

Lol

That wouldn't be a problem. Imagine an EU-wide asylum request approval, where if a refugee gets approved for asylum, he directed to a member state, and he only gets benefits as long as he stays in the said member states. He is free to leave the EU, of course, if he dislikes Poland, for example

>They always just take take take, and never give anything back in return.
gj german media

...

hey remember how Germany forced Euro on all the other EU member states?
Oh wait, thats not what happend. We loved our DM and France blackmailed uns into Euro in return for accepting German reunification

Perfidious Krautland

...

i cant even tell if you are a bong or polack

>blackmailed
Did they blackmail you into signing the Maastricht treaty too?

lmoa

alrighty

They blackmailed us into joining the Eurozone.
We would have much prefered to keep our strong DM

Meh, the euro was part of Maastricht so it was bound to happen sometime. Were there German politicians and people who wanted the mark to stay? Sure. We had people like that here too with the drachma, but these people weren't the decisive factor when it came to meterialising the common currency.

...

except UK and Denmark got an opt-out option
And the Euro was created specifically to "tame" German economy by the French.
Didn't work out for them though

The French are fucking thick as pig shit.

The Maastricht treaty was a large project and everybody took part in it. You could have just as easily rejected the euro. What would the French do? Kick you out of the EU ? lol
Even if you were actually blackmailed, you adapted fast, forming your own agenda to compete with China and other powerhouses. Others might consider it a dick move but who cares anyway? everybody looks after themselves. Your example is being followed now.

>I must admit
You're supposed to use this phrase when you say something unexpected, not something obvious.
Also your bait's getting stale, Hans

The EU only works as long as Germany and France go along.
And "watcha gonna do about this, bitch?", is not how germany does dimplomacy.

>And "watcha gonna do about this, bitch?", is not how germany does dimplomacy.
Unless it's a weak country.
France is another story. In the long run you have beaten France but this might devovle into another trade war. We'll see. Interesting times are ahead.

>I am not interested in an Union where Germany only gives and eastern europe only takes.
Do you know who benefits most from Eu and Euro-zone surprise Germany what will you say to all southern states like Italy, Spain, Portugal who are in big problems because of you let´s not forget Greece where is your solidarity ohh yes I can´t find it.
And lastly if we would accept those refugees how can you guarantee me it wont end like in Western Europe just look at the problems you have with them or tell me how in CZ Vietnamese from other side of the world managed to integrate whilst Gypsies who live in our land for hundreds of years make up 50 % of prisoner in CZ.

>Unless it's a weak country.
let me guess, you feel bullied by Germany

Poland is one of those countries where they'll cry forever that they get bullied and yet their country looks like a piece of garbage when left in their care. I mean, hell, just look at how butthurt they got at this (see YT comments):

youtube.com/watch?v=-UL8MCgwTlk

Not really. It's just how things work across the world.

without the EU, the German currency would greatly revalue because of their large trade superavit, making it very hard to manufacture there in a competitive way.
and without the EU, the currency of many of the countries in problems would greatly devalue.

UK avoided that problem to a degree because they never adopted the Euro.

In the EU, some countries have to be the New York and California, and others have to be Arkansas or Florida.

So are you mad that Poland is a parasitic country, or that they're ebil racists who don't want Muslims to rape their woman? Or both?

Plus Poland takes in a ton of Ukrainians from war torn parts.

>Do you know who benefits most from Eu and Euro-zone
Eastern Europe

>let´s not forget Greece where is your solidarity ohh yes I can´t find it.
if there was no solidarity, we would have kicked Greece out of Eurozone and let them to rot, like Schäubel wanted

>And lastly if we would accept those refugees how can you guarantee me it wont end like in Western Europe
I cant you guarantee it. That's what solidarity is all about. Helping your friend, even if it doesn't have an immediate benefit to you.

it doesn't work everywhere the same.
If you act against Russians interest, they will invade you or support separatists in your country.
If you act against German interest, you will get some careful words of disagreement as answere and we will try to find a mutual beneficial solution with you

Actually Schauble in 2015 proposed Grexit along with a 50 bln € loan.

>So are you mad that Poland is a parasitic country
This one

>Plus Poland takes in a ton of Ukrainians from war torn parts.
Those are working migrants. They are not refugees

funny how you conveniently ignore the point he makes and keep on spouting the same bs

>Helping your friend, even if it doesn't have an immediate benefit to you.
imagine this hypothetical scenario

>you are throwing a party
>invite some friends, then say fuck it, tell them to bring whoever they want with them
>loads of people arrive
>party starts getting way out of hand
>you get a brilliant idea and send some people to your neighbour who did not invite anyone, he is not even throwing a party at all
>neighbour tells them to kys
>throw an autistic hissy fit how you got him a job, so he should be thankful and show some solidarity, despite the fact that the job and the party have absolutely nothing in common

makes sense
also
>friend
yeah nah

>refugees must be required to sit on their asses and do nothing.

...

>Yeah, I am sure that without the European Union, Poland would do just fine, just like Ukraine.
That's actually rather hard to say because you'd have to model development of political and economic climate. And even then you'd have to differentiate between credit due to Germany as a country and trading partner, and to EU as an institution.

>I am not interested in an Union where Germany only gives and eastern erope only takes.
Good. Europe doesn't work this way, no matter whether you're baiting or genuinely ignorant. Regardless, if you feel that's how it is then you should leave.

>So if you need help, Germany should help, but if we need help, you take a "rational" approach? No thank you.
You are trying to push it into a personal dispute over trading favours which is dishonest. EU institutions should either come up with comprehensive migrant policy or shut down schengen area.
I'm not asking you for anything, nor do I expect anything from you. Not from Germany and definitely not from you personally.

>Nordstream II was created by private enterprizes, and whole EU agreed to liberalization of the Energy market, including Poland. And now they want to revert the treaty, because it doesnt suit their national interest
This kind of strategic investment is never up to private enterprise, if only due to regulatory requirements. Liberalisation of internal market is also a separate thing to relationships with outside. But I'm glad you at least admit that it's a case of national interests of germany and not those of the entire union.

tl;dr if EU is not meant to be union of nations that respect each other then it should not exist at all.

And this solution would have been much more beneficial to Germany.
Yet Merkel decided against it, even though arguing with Greece was anything but easy, especially with that clown Varoufakis. And yet she pulled through it, after months of arguing, beeing insulted as nazi by Greek press, we eventually came to a deal that would harm the Greek people much less than Grexit
And I dont think Greek people appreciate it, they probably still see us as nazis and opressors, and the Syriza party as traitors.

refugees must be required to be persecuted in their country, and flee from a war zone. Most of Ukraine isnt a war zone, you know? Actually, the conflict is reduced to a few skirmishes

Yeah Libya and Syria are living proof.

looks like a flaming benis

What if I were to tell you that most "refugees" coming to your country aren't from Syria, because most don't have papers?

>>Do you know who benefits most from Eu and Euro-zone
>Eastern Europe
You literally brought all important companies and now all excessive profit goes back to Germany you are benefiting most from all of this look at you´r trade balance you are destroying southern Europe
>if there was no solidarity, we would have kicked Greece out of Eurozone and let them to rot, like Schäubel wanted
Yes that´s why you decided to strangle Greece with your amazing reforms which are slowly killing them amazing tactic and kicking them out of Eur-ozone would be better then they would simply devalue their currency.
>I cant you guarantee it. That's what solidarity is all about. Helping your friend, even if it doesn't have an immediate benefit to you.
Yes on this I agree but then we have to do something either like Australia or pick one fraction in Libya and support them under condition they will stop influx of refugees.

except i am paying the rent of the neighbour
oh, and i am not throwing a party, i am helping people in need.
and i invide them to my flat in the first place because another neighbour of mine has too many of them in his appartment and needs help

>That's actually rather hard to say because you'd have to model development of political and economic climate. And even then you'd have to differentiate between credit due to Germany as a country and trading partner, and to EU as an institution.
They were literally at the same level, after the break of Soviet Union. Sure, it might be just a coincidence that the country that joined the EU got wealthy and the other one didnt.
Also, Germany very strongly supported Poland joining the EU. Meanwhile, it would have been incredibly easy for us to block them from entering. We would even have an argument, that they occupy Germanys rightful territory.

>Good. Europe doesn't work this way, no matter whether you're baiting or genuinely ignorant. Regardless, if you feel that's how it is then you should leave.
We dont need to leave. We need to stop playin ball with the egoistic eastern europeans, and grab them by the balls. What are you guys gonna do, trade with Russia, lol?

>I'm not asking you for anything, nor do I expect anything from you. Not from Germany and definitely not from you personally.
Then I hope you wouldn't mind if the flow of EU develoment funds to your country stops?

then we need to prove if those people qualify for asylum or not, and this takes some time. We cant read minds, you know?

Are you blaming us now for American wars?

>Nazis
So what? Everybody calls us lazy, corrupt, stupid all the time. Grow up.

I agree with Schauble on the Grexit deal but without any further loans. The debt as is is unpayable anyway without restructuring. Putting more loans on top off it doesn't make much sense. Schauble was right that it would be an abrupt shock but eventually things would improve. Now the inevitable is just being postponed because the EU is unstable and wants to avoid another breakaway country. At least that's what Merkel and Obama wanted. Trump officials offered Grexit and connecting the drachma to the dollar.

German Spongebob is scary:
youtube.com/watch?v=xV2ksNgEn9w

>You literally brought all important companies and now all excessive profit goes back to Germany
Yes, you would have been better off if you were left free to develop your own industry, like Ukraine.

>and kicking them out of Eur-ozone would be better then they would simply devalue their currency.
Then why didn't they leave the Europe Union? Probably they dont understand politics as well as some random czech on a meme board.

>Yes on this I agree but then we have to do something either like Australia or pick one fraction in Libya and support them under condition they will stop influx of refugees.
And we are striking deals, with Turkey and other countries. But this cant happen over night, it needs time. And in the meantime, we need help from our neighbours and friends to accommodate those people. Yet our friends and neighbours suddenly decided that they are not too keen on solidarity

In Libya Americans had much less to do than the EU especially the French. In Syria EU bombers and military advisors are right there on the spot although Americans are much more involved.

The difference is, we are not nazis anymore. And considering our history, we dont take such accusations lightly.
Meanwhile, I hope you wont deny that corruption is a big problem in Greece

>They were literally at the same level, after the break of Soviet Union. Sure, it might be just a coincidence that the country that joined the EU got wealthy and the other one didnt.
You are being sarcastic but that's pretty much how it is. EU was a strong player forcing poland to adopt western standards, but it was not the only one. At the end of the day Poland did not have to adopt shock therapy.
>Also, Germany very strongly supported Poland joining the EU. Meanwhile, it would have been incredibly easy for us to block them from entering. We would even have an argument, that they occupy Germanys rightful territory.
Maybe if people in charge then were as delusional as you, you would have done exactly this.

>We dont need to leave. We need to stop playin ball with the egoistic eastern europeans, and grab them by the balls. What are you guys gonna do, trade with Russia, lol?
You are welcome to try. You've spent too much time on Sup Forums if you truly believe the "germans control le EU" meme. Your grasp is much weaker than you think. If you begin to act like you own the place, coalitions WILL form to put you back into place, assuming the whole thing doesn't disintegrate first.
Of course that's purely academic debate because even MEGA Schulz would be considerably more diplomatic in dealing with Poland than you can imagine.

>Then I hope you wouldn't mind if the flow of EU develoment funds to your country stops?
I certainly wouldn't. In grand scheme of things they are pretty meaningless.

I agree, France was involved in Lybia
But what does it have to do with Germany?

>except i am paying the rent of the neighbour
you are not, the thought that our economy would collapse if it wasn't for the EU/Germany (and the fact that these two terms are often interchangeable really makes one thing) is simply stupid
yes, it would be a big blow, but our country would definitely not end up like Ukraine
but keep dreaming

>oh, and i am not throwing a party, i am helping people in need.
it's called analogy, plus no one asked you to "help people in need" so you have no right to push this obligation on others, we are not your god damn subjects, get it?
if you are so hell-bent on being humanitarian, sure go ahead, but keep the statement above in mind

>and i invide them to my flat in the first place because another neighbour of mine has too many of them in his appartment and needs help
so instead of either kicking them out of his flat or trying to come up with another (maybe less radical) solution, we should just redistibute them across the whole apartment complex
what a wonderful idea

>we dont take such accusations lightly
Why should we then?
Who are you to point the finger when all of your major corporations are involved in corruption scandals?

so if a German company makes a corrupt deal with Greek governement, it means that Germany is corrupt and Greece isnt?

Germany is not involved in Syria?

>you are not, the thought that our economy would collapse if it wasn't for the EU/Germany (and the fact that these two terms are often interchangeable really makes one thing) is simply stupid
You wouldn't collaps, you would simply remain on the same level as Ukraine, if you never joined the EU.

>it's called analogy, plus no one asked you to "help people in need" so you have no right to push this obligation on others, we are not your god damn subjects, get it?
Greece and Italy, asked for help, because they couldn't handle the influx of refugees anymore

>instead of either kicking them out
and "kicking them out" means letting them drown in your analogy?

No it means that you are corrupt too. Everybody benefited. The company, the company executive, the government official.

No, but it means that you're not blameless.

Not really, it's not. And it's definitely not responsible for the mess in there.

Our companies are not state owned. They don't represent our people. And I take an educated guess that without corruption, you cant have deals done in a country like Greece. If you dont bribe offcials, you will never get necessary authorizations

That's not what educated guess means, but even if it were true, it's still wrong to allow your corporations to harm your reputation this way. I won't condone it with our corporations and I don't see why anyone should condone it in theirs.

The EU (and that means Germany too) wants to topple Assad. It has backtracked on that for now because it's way too fucked up there to deal with Assad. I think even Belgium has sent a couple of F16s

Weekend posters are the worst.

Well if you wanted to be pedantic then yeah, pretty much everyone and their uncle have some planes doing bombing runs on Daesh. Even so Germany was not among the powers that initiated either the arab spring or the fighting.

You didn't sell cars with fake emission readings only to the Greek state though. You did accept a Siemens executive flee to Germany and avoid prosecution in Greece and so on. As a people, no i don't consider you corrupt if that's what you mean.

> you would simply remain on the same level as Ukraine
wrong
I found some stats on GDP of Czechoslovakia in 1990, but it's kinda pointless since the value of currency shifted hard since then
but it you seriously think it's economy was as bad as Ukraine's today with all it's corruption and ongoing conflict you are simply delusional

>and "kicking them out" means letting them drown in your analogy?
no, it means not fishing for smuggling ships 15km away from the coast of Libya
it also means not taking them from sea and then simply letting them run wild and unchecked

it the ship goes down, there is nothing easier than rescuing them and shipping them back instead of giving them express ride to Europe

the solutions are there, but certain country wants it another way I guess

>it the ship goes down, there is nothing easier than rescuing them and shipping them back instead of giving them express ride to Europe
You do know that those are sovereign countries in North Africa, and you cant just dump people there without their premission, right?

No i'm talking about the early stages of the civil war in Syria when the EU openly condemned Assad for war crimes, gas attacks and supported(s?) his fall when eventually it became obvious that most opposition factions were just as brutal or worse. The Assad regime had close ties to Russia not western powers before the war and it had to be removed.

That's why you diplomatically coerce them to take these people by giving them money and threatening to withhold development aid.

EU or whatever is left after its gone will have to be much more active in dealing with those countries, because the seven figure migrant counts so far are still nothing compared to what will come over next decades.

Climate change is a real thing, and birthrate is still going up down there.

There was actually a legit democratic opposition to Assad back then, it's just he managed to kill them off or radicalize them with carpet bombings while Obama and Putin were negotiating peace in our time.

those countries are letting said "refugees" through without a worry (plus usually adding their own people to the mix headed for Europe) so I really don't see why they shouldn't suffer the consequences for their actions (or lack of it)

>sovereign countries
yes, and there are also sovereign countries unwilling to accept illegals from MENA in Eastern Europe, since they see no point in it as it solves nothing