Give me 1 good reason why it shouldn't be communist everywhere? Why should somebody make more than the next person? We should all have the same things and same wages for work
it's unfair as fuck how some people can do back breaking labor for 12 hours a day and hardly put food on the table meanwhile someone else can have a relaxing desk job 6 hours a day and own 2 houses and go on vacation etc every year
Im fucking sick of social class dividing people especially around the holidays
Iktf man. My gf and I can't even afford to have kids and her brother has 4 of the fuckers and makes like 5x as much as us combined........ I don't know about communism but there should definitely be a maximum wage people can make because it's sickening how he makes like 110k a year
I wouldn't want full-fledged communism, but in general I agree with you user. I read recently that on average, billionaires own like 9 homes each, and we're not talking about little shacks, either, frigging mansions. Then you consider the stuff inside, the maintenance, staff, etc.... And some of them don't ever lift a finger to "earn" it.
Bunch of whinny little bitches. Do something with your lives.
No one would ever learn calculus or engineering. Even if a few did, it wouldn't be enough to maintain society.
Because communism cannot work in the real world. Source: every society that has ever tried it.
Yeah that's true and it's sickening how people can be that greedy. Who the fuck needs more than 100k a year? You can't possibly need that much to afford an apartment and food on the table........ I've been eating Ramen and potatoes since I moved out of my parents because it's all I can afford
... or chemistry, or the more demanding trades, or medicine.
A McDonalds checkout operator should not be payed as much as a brain surgeon.
Why not? If it's something they like why wouldn't they do it? I'm sure people would rather do lazy fuck jobs instead of dig ditches
You don't do a job because of pay you do it to make your society function
...
Can you explain why? Being a mcdonalds worker would suck more than being a brain surgeon
If that were true, why do doctors buy nice houses, cars, yachts etc. instead of just giving their money away?
Because it's the value and importance of the person's skills you fucking child. Also the education, training and effort of being a brain surgeon is probably a lot fucking worse than working at mcDicks
Because their work helps people more than anyone at McDonalds ever has.
I sure do love me some socialism!
Because they're greedy fucks
Alright, so you look at a McDonalds worker and a Doctor. You see the Doctor buy nicer things, and you attribute this to the Doctor being greedy rather than the Doctor working the top tier of jobs in our society. Why? Because I assume you are retarded or a high schooler.
Communism looks good on paper but when put into effect people are unhappy. When there is no room to grow or better yourself then you are no better off than a slave
"A miserable free man is always better off than a content slave".
I'm 28 actually and sick of seeing how this world actually works
Rich get richer poor get poorer and its sickening
That's just natural selection bro. If you are so desperate and poor then you should do anything to survive. ANYTHING. If you fail then it wasn't meant to be
Because under communism the wealth isn't spread equally either. There are a few at the top that get super rich and control everything.
So have a few people super rich and the majority equal
The solutions are not limited to paying a Doctor and a fucking fry cook the same amount of money.
Christ dude, I'm losing my faith in democracy with how stupid people are.
What are you, like 12?
When people better themselves to get a better job then they deserve more money. I'm working a shitty retail job at the minute for pretty much minimum wage and even I understand that. Thats why I'm learning to better myself so I don't have to have a shitty job for the rest of my life
>Im fucking sick of social class dividing people especially around the holidays
OP argues for communism, then says he hates the primary aspect of communism. *shakes head*
The problem is that there are people that think entry level jobs are lifelong careers. Fuck you guys, you are all welcome to come and eat out of my garbage can. You are the reason that people are, on average, stupid and intolerable to be around.
Because communism means you not only don't get to pick your job, you must do that job and only that job and can't do anything else.
If you haven't ever read Engels or Marx, please shut the fuck up about this subject forever.
If you have, then you know that workers have nothing of value to sell except their time and energy - in short, their life. And that if capital is allowed to set the price of that time and energy, then labor is fucked. This is nothing new, but it's going to reach a boiling point as the American work force is automated by at least 1% a year over the next 50 years.
The only hope for most Americans is to have a government that works in their favor - so the concentration of wealth (which has been accelerating for 30 years) can be checked. So social mobility (which has been dying out for 30 years) will continue to be possible.
Well, the dumbest poor people in the country just elected a multi-billionaire who convinced them that the real enemy is Jose the Roofer. He is filling his cabinet with other multi-billionaires and rachteting up geopolitical tension.
America: Too Stupid to Not Fuck its Own Ass. That's what communism says to me. Of course, I'm actually educated on this topic.
When has a communist regime NOT ended in mass genocide?
>NB4 not real communism
Yes, yes it was. The idea may not be corrupt, but humanity will always fuck things up. Always.
Every job should pay a livable wage. Doesn't matter if you're a lawyer or dish washer you should be able to buy the same things
Why should a surgeon, who just saved like, 12 peoples lives today, get the same amount of money as someone who decided their life long job was to serve burgers to someone?
Because the burgers also keep people alive by keeping people fed
Communism, The only form of government you have to keep people in the country with a wall.
Because if you can get paid $15 per hour as a fry cook, or $15 per hour to perform surgery, where exactly is the incentive to undergo the grueling training that you need to do the job successfully? Sure some people would still do it as a labor of love but most people only go through med school because of the money they know they can make.
In an ideal world you might be correct, but in actuality most people would be too lazy to do the important difficult work if they didn't get paid much more than the average salary.
Oh fuck off. Being informed on a philosophy means nothing if you've lived a sheltered life or if you're too dumb to comprehend reality.
A huge portion of people are shit dead weight to our society due to stupidity, laziness, lack of impulse control and lack of care for society as a whole, while some are excellent. We don't all deserve the same, not even fucking close.
Food prep lol
get a real job. All you have to do is stop smoking pot.
Not sure if b8 or average liberal moron...
Maybe because some people actually take pride in their job?
Agreed, but socialism isn't the answer. When the government provides everything, no one has any incentive to work and it all falls apart.
Only the young are idealistic enough to believe that equality and communism work.
Even mother nature fosters competition in "survival of the fittest". If you are truly exceptional at something (and everyone has at least 1 thing they're good at), why would you want 'institutionalized equality' marginalizing your inherent gift?
You realize that becoming a surgeon requires that you sacrifice the best years of your life right?
IMHO the single biggest problem in the US economy is "Trickle Down Economics" ala Reagan, but actually going back to Kennedy. It's ludicrous that the average citizen ever allowed it to happen: "hurp-durp; lets lower taxes for the Über rich, and they will surely give us some of the money!" And there used to be tax codes and trade laws that encouraged the wealthy to reinvest in the economy with more jobs, manufacturing and self sufficiency IN THE US, rather than say moving production to China or Mexico paying slave wages, and simply pocketing all the profits (NAFTA). I worry that the cat is so far out of the bag that it will never change without a major revolution, and it's getting worse every day. We have become a fuedal society where a few elites will own everything, and the peasants subsist on rotten potatoes and pay all their money to slumlords.....
Then there would be zero incentive to improve yourself. Why toil and challenge yourself to do something that improves society more significantly than making sure the dishes are clean?
Also, what incentive would there be to innovate, create new products, or advance existing products if at the end of the day, society will still value you as much as the cafeteria dish washer?
Sorry, guy who isn't educated about the subject he's talking about, communism isn't a philosophy. It's a method of economic analysis.
Saying that a bunch of people are worthless probably makes you feel like the chubbiest edgelord in eighth grade, but people who understand this shit can smell the stupid.
The big masses of worthless people do, in fact, have value in a developed democracy - which is the kind of government under which Marx expected communism to develop. You know, in case you felt like learning something today.
That great battle has already been fought by your less obese ancestors. Granting the vote to every citizen is a statement of class struggle. In that sense, we all deserve the same.
The founding fathers, whose shit you also have never read, would agree in principle if not in execution. Voters can, should and must shape policy to make their lives livable, even if it makes fatty confused and angry. There is no other possible "philosophy."
>NAFTA
>China
Pick one
Because everyone who works full time should make as much as anyone else who does
Ironically most people drop communism by 8th grade.
This thread is about the method of economic structure where people are paid the same or roughly the same for every job.
I'm talking about what people should be paid for their work relative to others. You're too worked up to even realize what's being said. Your lack of organized thought and impulse control is probably why you think this is a good idea.
Some people are fucking stupid, lazy, apathetic toward anyone but themselves and unable to build themselves into great people. Some people are excellent, many people are much better than the shit people in our society.
In order to deny this, you have to either be sheltered, naive as fuck, stupid, or a piece of shit. Some people are better than others and always will be, get over it.
Competent people do things that they want to do, not for money or power or prestige. Studies show that doing something because you think it ought to be done gives better results than doing something because you're getting paid. Conservatives can't understand this because they have no intellectual curiosity, and can only comprehend the idea of the monetary reward.
If you don't know that the incentive of being paid more makes someone work harder than you have no right to criticize anyone else for intelligence or education. It's basic psychology and your quip is a misframed half truth. Yeah purpose motivates people, but in contrast to how much payment or increase of payment? The important aspect is there, but you left it out because you're a half assed, full of shit, caricature of a leftist.
cause you can pull anybody over 8years old to work at mcd. how hard do you think it is to operate on someone's brain and not kill them
Literally a non-answer to the questions of incentive.
Its not your fault though, communism simply is too idealistic. It looks awesome on paper, but humans are too weak to actually have a successful model on a macro scale.
When given the choice, the vast majority of people choose to spend their free time on activities that don't produce anything for society: sports, TV, movies, vidya, shitposting on the 4chins, etc. Believing that most people would choose to spend their free time working for the good of society is beyond naive.
It's not that humans are too weak, it's that people don't think, feel or behave in accordance with that philosophy. It literally only makes sense in the mind of naive, stupid and sheltered people. It's completely detached from reality. I can find merit or function in any types of national organization, but communism and an-caps have absolutely fucking nothing to do with reality.
Nobody is really taught what communism is by 8th grade, it's why fats like you think you understand it even though you never have and never will crack a book.
People who study politics and economics have zero problems applying class, or Marxist, analysis to problems.
See, first you have to figure out that fat kids don't know stuff. Then you have to recognize that you're a fat kid. Then you have to abandon your stupid, simple misconception like "HURR, SOME PEOPLE ARE DUH, AND SOME PEOPLE ARE MUH, THEREFORE FART."
If you have some kind of awesome, profound, once-sentence long theory about how a modern economy functions that you could probably teach a dog to say, it's guaranteed bullshit.
NONE of the shit you assert that we are talking about has ANYTHING to do with any of the actual knowledge I've dropped on a fat today. Want to know why?
Again, idealism. Take my job for example - I'm a maintenance planning engineer. I decide when the most appropriate time to take down a steady state system is to do maintenance, or analyze if I can skip the maintenance for another cycle. Its boring, repetitive, and math intensive. If I could pick any job, I would be a farmer. But I wouldn't make anything close to what I make now as a farmer.
If communism took hold, no one would want to do this job, but its important and lowers the overall cost of nearly every mass produced good in the world (significantly).
>if I call him fat enough maybe he'll just become fat
Lol
Academics are often sheltered fucks who have never had to hold down a blue collar job or spend extended periods of time around the lower classes of people they claim to understand. Hence, frequent idealist nonsense.
People should not be all paid the same or close to equal because people are not all equal or close to equal in competence, intelligence and character. None of your all caps braindead rants and misplaced accusations of fatness will change that.
Rearrange that red star beret, comb your spic stache and rack that squishy brain to come up with something little buddy.
>communism works because you're a fat kid
Nice argument.
>There's no insensitive to better understanding in science and engineering
>It implies state controlled media, and communication
>It grants the state ultimate power over industry
>Because of less need for importing and exporting it breeds xenophobia
>There are no examples of communism possitivly impacting the freedom of individuals of a nation
This has to be bait...right? Nobody is this stupid...
I'd rather pay my doctor 80$ an hour to save my life, and the guy cutting my grass 10$ an hour to do a shitty job, than pay my doctor 45$ an hour to do an okay job and the guy cutting my grass 45$ an hour to do the best grass cutting in the world.
I like this "sheltered" thing you keep throwing around. Did your daddy the forklift driver tell you that the fewer books people read, the smarter they are?
Where does the logic break down? I think there's a retarded homeless guy down the street who is even less sheltered than your daddy - who I'm sure is a real good, smart guy despite all the meth and leaving your fatmom and going to prison.
What do you say? Are you more sheltered than a fucking hobo, or less? And what does it mean for his comprehension of global economic trends, fat?
Could it be that your daddy was wrong and that pretty much everyone who bothers to read up on a subject knows more than pretty much everyone who doesn't?
OP is mad because he was too retarded to go to college so he has to do uncomfortable work with his hands rather than comfortable work with his mind.
It's ok buddy, everyone who's groceries you bag know you're retarded anyway :)
Fat kids suffer from impaired cognitive development. You think I'm kidding? Google Scholar is a great place to look up peer-reviewed medical literature on the subject. Dare me to link it.
communism is fucking stupid and its supporters are morons alright everybody go home
You literally didn't address anything I said. You also made up your own backstory for me to attack it, which is completely false.
Do you plan on actually addressing my point that not all people or equal or are you just going to keep raging like the child that you are?
Not surprised. Also completely irrelevant ITT.
nice dubs tho
Adding to that
However, if I knew that my doctor was going to try his best regardless of his pay, knowing that he can have anything in the world that he wants, along with everyone else, it's 100% the way to go.
Public executions of people who take unnecessary amounts of shit are a must.
It's funny because I'm 170 pounds and I'm 25
ppl r not equal
"fair" doesnt mean "the same to every1"
some1 would spontaneously invent capitalism, like in poland, when communism occupied the land and ppl were stealing what they can from work and trading among themselves
Cont.
>(Though a mild straw man) capital is often ultimately wasted places other than benefiting the popuse in money pit such as the military (ex. the Soviets staving the shit out of everyone while ultimately acculturating 10000 nuclear warheads)
>When all media is state funded you can't really talk shit about the state.
>GI cheese
>Goods granted to the public end up being shit
Communism is the end of history. In order to reach it you have to pass through each preceding stage (Despotism, Feudalism, Capitalism, Socialism) and combine the lessons thus derived to create the ultimate system. Communism is less about having the same things and making the same income as breaking down all unnecessary alienation which is manifested in existing and previous systems, such as the alienation of the individual from themselves, or the worker from capital and product. Attempting to rush "Communism" into completion results in retardation and setbacks to the project, which requires a lengthy process consisting of stages of ideation, action and introspection. Communism is perhaps 200 years away if I were to wager. In the meantime, try to survive the conflagration of neo-fascism currently unfolding while learning its subtle lessons.
Because forcing everyone to be equal just drags everyone down and makes everyone equally shit.
Because you haven't said anything, fat. I pointed out one way that (nearly) all people are considered equal in the country that is holding your bloated ass up right now.
If you were half-educated, you would have recognized that I was saying people's value is an abstract, multi-factor concept. But you're not.
Want another one? It's rhetoric, but it's from Marx and the answer is "yes." Ready?
Are we not all entitled to the sweat of our brows?
Oh, why can't everything be boiled down to a simple slogan for the ease and comfort of fatty fat the forklift-driver's kid?
you moron. to each his own, to each his ability, his ability is having fucking kids, and his own is making nothing. under communism hes gonna MAKE more anyways because he can fuck 5 more times then you can
I think having the same wages would be unfair. Some jobs require much more preparation and/or responsibility than others so it's fair that some make more than others. The problem is the gap. Struggling to reach the end of the month shouldn't happen when you work 10+ hrs a day, and some people shouldn't earn in a month what others do in a lifetime. I still thiink it'd be alright if some earned 10x what someone else does, as long as everyone can have the bare minimum to survive without struggling. Not 100 or 200 times though.
You know what else you'd get sick of real fast? Living anywhere communist. Why don't you take a vacation to Russia or North Korea and tell us how you felt about it when you get back.
You want one reason? Well, there are literally hundreds but this one should suffice. Communism means the government has all the power and the people have none. You don't want to live anywhere like that. The government is worse than the billionaires. Trust me.
Fat kids being dumb is absolutely relevant to this thread
Life is unfair bitch
62 million people would like to have a word with you
Certainly applies to OP
the top 1% of income tax payers pay 50% of all income tax
wanna be equal? welp, better fill in that 49%
Sick turnaround, chubs! Gimmie a high five and time how long it takes for your fatsheath to stop rippling!
well not even those places are commie anymore, the top tier people of those places have already moved onto, or been educated in capitalist places
>call someone a fat retard
>far argument
>call someone else a fat retard
>WEW THATS RETARDED
There are actually multiple facets of our Constitutional Republic that reduce the influence of the everyday person and it's done on purpose. Constitution, Representative democracy rather than direct, electoral college as well.
Regardless, the words of our forefathers of every man being created equal is false.
It's not true, people significantly vary in IQ, drive, different types of intelligence. These factors determine how much one can contribute to our society.
Everyone does not deserve the same, I'm fit, my dad is a retired small business owner, and you are immature and naive.
Maybe you'll grow up one day, maybe you'll just be another weirdo adult marxist who no one wants to spend time with. For now, you're a worthless piece of shit with pipe dreams of a utopia that will only ever exist in your mind.
Get a real job.
literally everyone plays the genetic lottery when born, so everyone is born equal
you dumb fucking shit
You you haven't read Wealth of Nations, please shut the fuck up about capitalism forever.
The point of "all men are created equal" wasn't that the founding fathers didn't understand that some people are tall and some people are short, stupid. They were aware of that. The context in which they were speaking was political. Jesus christ.
That statement is directly contradictory.
Right, and you/he were using that to argue for equal or close to equal pay.
Read it. Haven't said anything about capitalism in the thread, but I'm totally down to start now that I've passed your stupid test.
Did you like the part in Wealth of Nations where the government is named as the only possible way to check unbridled, destructive greed?
Let me know if you need a chapter reference.
>maybe if I call him fat one more time I'll forget about all those times the kids used to laugh at my fat ass in grade school
no its not
politically this is true. if you could do the same work, at the same quality for less
no one would hire anyone else.
Everyone playing the genetic lottery means that everyone does not come out equal. Very basic, not for you apparently. Looks like you lost out on the lottery in question.
Okay, here I am responding to your claim.
That wasn't me and I don't give a fuck. That isn't a conclusion of marx's political analysis. You don't know who you're arguing with, you don't understand the topic you're talking about, and you can't tell when the person you're arguing with doesn't know either.
You're a critical mass nuclear weapon of complete fucking ignorance on this topic. You're arguing with a straw man and he's kicking your ass.
Stick to shit you've actually read about, like nothing. Fat ass.
Which is a fantasy that will never happen. We might as well be talking about inicorns and fairies.