You have ten (10) seconds to tell me why this movie was bad, without mentioning:

You have ten (10) seconds to tell me why this movie was bad, without mentioning:

>le evul jews at Disney
>muh corporate cashgrab
>the race or gender of any of the actors
>/r/theredpill MRA rhetoric (muh feminism etc)
>hurr durr kylo ren isn't badass enough!!!
>complaining that the movie doesn't adhere to prequel bullshit

GO.

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youtube.com/watch?v=ZPgtvVTmJMg
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The fact that it feels like something made by a teenaged fan of the OT

Rey is boring and the movie has very little tension while also being highly derivative. I don't think it's bad, just run of the mill.

Do you think lucas regrets selling to Disney?

i'd tell you if i remembered anything from it

Listen to what this guy has to say and tell me he isn't right.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZPgtvVTmJMg

>Inb4 OP comes up with some bullshit to excuse himself from watching said video

Can't stand on its own.
Poor pacing.
Forgettable soundtrack.
Shits on the lore.
Adheres to originals bullshit.

Boring characters
Boring plot
Boring despite the schizofrenic pacing that is a hallmark of J J's films.
Too many JJ-isms that I despise in general

>hurr durr kylo ren isn't badass enough!!!

Literally NOBODY complained about this, he was the best part of the movie.

>derivative of a highly original science fiction film

stopped watching there, Star Wars is literally a big ripoff mishmash of all the shit Lucas and his buddies liked. It's World War II air raid reels combined with samurai flicks and the quintessential hero's journey. It's derivative by its very nature.

JJ's authentic mystery box
Lack of tension
Lazy story

Since you're apparently too retarded to watch a 20 minute long video, here's basically what he's asking:

How come Finn goes from apparently being traumatized at holding a fellow trooper in his arms as they die, to killing a bunch of them during his escape from the First Order as if he doesn't care about them?

How come Starkiller base is supposed to be better than the Death Star despite the Death Star a) Being mobile, and b) Not requiring a sun's energy to charge its super laser?

Speaking of the sun, why is the First Order so stupid that they build their super weapon so it drains energy from the sun, which will eventually result in the death of the planet itself?

How does Rey go from showing no signs of being force-sensitive, to reading Kylo's mind and performing a Jedi mind trick, two things which literally only Jedi masters are capable of?

While on the topic of Ma-Rey Sue, how is she able to speak Droid so fluently? She can understand BB-8 perfectly, whereas in the OT only C-3PO was able to understand R2-D2.

Who's funding the First Order? The Empire at least had the benefit of being a fucking Empire, but how does (what is essentially) a splinter-group of the Empire manage to pay for all its troops, weapons, vehicles, etc?

Why is it called "The Resistance" when it's established that the Empire has basically been destroyed and Democracy has returned to the galaxy? You can't really name yourself "The Resistance" when your enemy is much smaller than you and you're already in power.

What exactly does Kylo Ren intend to "finish" what Vader started? Vader redeemed himself at the end of RotJ and became Anakin Skywalker once again. What exactly does he plan to "finish"?

>Inb4 OP comes up with some bullshit to excuse himself from watching said video
>stopped watching there

Thank you for proving my point, retard.

>Why is it called "The Resistance" when it's established that the Empire has basically been destroyed and Democracy has returned to the galaxy? You can't really name yourself "The Resistance" when your enemy is much smaller than you and you're already in power.

Same reason Liberals still invoke the KKK as a threat.

Once the mission is complete you loose your control, therefore the mission must never end.

It's a reheated remake of A New Hope.

It is the same fucking copy of episode 4. This is my only concern.

>How come Finn goes from apparently being traumatized at holding a fellow trooper in his arms as they die, to killing a bunch of them during his escape from the First Order as if he doesn't care about them?

Oh yeah, Finn should have just refused to fire on the guys who were trying to kill him, and people seem to miss that the crux of his decision to turn on the First Order was being ordered to gun down dozens of innocent people, not the random stormtrooper dying

>How come Starkiller base is supposed to be better than the Death Star despite the Death Star a) Being mobile, and b) Not requiring a sun's energy to charge its super laser?

is is pointless autistic nitpicking, but Starkiller was apparently mobile and had the capability of destroying an entire system from the other side of the galaxy. You can see why this would be useful.

>How does Rey go from showing no signs of being force-sensitive, to reading Kylo's mind and performing a Jedi mind trick, two things which literally only Jedi masters are capable of?

Kylo was emotionally unstable and unsure of himself at that point. Him taking of the mask is a metaphor for him opening himself up and exposing himself to Rey; the entire point of Kylo Ren is that he's a retard who's in over his head, he's an edgy school shooter pretending to be Vader in order to feel better about himself. And she mind-tricked one dumb stormtrooper, you're making up bullshit that only Jedi Masters can do that.

>While on the topic of Ma-Rey Sue, how is she able to speak Droid so fluently?

She's a mechanic. Luke wasn't. Makes sense. Luke eventually learned to speak droid, as he seems to talk to R2 in ESB and RotJ.

>Who's funding the First Order?

More autistic nitpicking. Might as well complain why there's sound in space or how Han was able to get to Bespin despite no hyperdrive. Who the fuck cares.

JJ and his mystery box bullshit. Episode IV left us asking very few questions. JJ made this entire movie to fuck with people. He packs in questions. It's not a good way to start a story. We should be asking all the questions after episode VIII. Fuck the mystery box. It's like he's winking at you.

it was forgettable

>hurr durr every movie with influences is just a big ripoff

the prequels have ruined people's minds about Star Wars.

Star Wars is not about details and backstory, it's about the adventure at hand.

>Why is it called "The Resistance" when it's established that the Empire has basically been destroyed and Democracy has returned to the galaxy? You can't really name yourself "The Resistance" when your enemy is much smaller than you and you're already in power.

The Resistance is separate from the Republic. And the only requirement for a "resistance" is that it's resisting something.

>What exactly does Kylo Ren intend to "finish" what Vader started? Vader redeemed himself at the end of RotJ and became Anakin Skywalker once again. What exactly does he plan to "finish"?

He wants to destroy the Jedi. Kylo Ren either doesn't know Vader redeemed himself (thus his interpretation of Vader as a person is flawed, the idea of heroes not living up to the legend is a motif in the movie) or he thinks Vader turning to the light was a sign of weakness (an important part of Kylo's character, he's constantly refusing to follow his conscience and stop killing people because he thinks being good makes you weak)

>tfa shills will say anything

...

the fact that it's not good

Kylo knows Vader redeemed himself but thinks it was an act of weakness. There was more to the scene where Kylo talks to Snoke. JJ decided to cut a bunch of shit that makes the plot flow a lot better. He wanted his reveals to be more impactful but in the process he fucked up the story telling. I fucking hate JJ Abrams as a storyteller. He's a competent director though.

>Episode IV left us asking very few questions

Episode IV was also supposed to be the only movie because they feared it would flop.

it's just a remake

>but Starkiller was apparently mobile
Where was this stated?

>the entire point of Kylo Ren is that he's a retard who's in over his head, he's an edgy school shooter pretending to be Vader in order to feel better about himself.
That still doesn't explain how she could suddenly read his mind.

>And she mind-tricked one dumb stormtrooper, you're making up bullshit that only Jedi Masters can do that.
If that's true, how come Luke wasn't performing mind tricks in ESB?

>Luke eventually learned to speak droid, as he seems to talk to R2 in ESB and RotJ.
But Luke's "speaking" droid is more "I say this and the droid beeps to show how it feels", Rey is somehow capable of understanding exactly what BB-8 says with no need for a translator.

>Might as well complain why there's sound in space or how Han was able to get to Bespin despite no hyperdrive. Who the fuck cares.
>Just turn off your brain brah!

>The Resistance is separate from the Republic. And the only requirement for a "resistance" is that it's resisting something.
Okay, that I can accept because it's at least plausible.

>Kylo Ren either doesn't know Vader redeemed himself (thus his interpretation of Vader as a person is flawed, the idea of heroes not living up to the legend is a motif in the movie)
If that's true, why would his parents keep it a secret that he redeemed himself?

>or he thinks Vader turning to the light was a sign of weakness (an important part of Kylo's character, he's constantly refusing to follow his conscience and stop killing people because he thinks being good makes you weak)
So he slaughters innocent civilians and somehow we're to believe he's conflicted on whether or not he's evil?

>Kylo Ren either doesn't know Vader redeemed himself

top kek. he was learning at lukes academy and Luke didn't tell him, what a faggot

A blessing in disguise. It made the story arc much better.

>>but Starkiller was apparently mobile
>Where was this stated?
Straight from the mouth of Pablo Hidalgo, our Lord and savior

>So he slaughters innocent civilians and somehow we're to believe he's conflicted on whether or not he's evil?

Yes, because there were entire scenes dedicated to him being conflicted. Like, this was the ENTIRE character arc, dude. He's a loser desperately trying to convince himself he's the big bad darksider he wants to be even though it doesn't make him feel any better about himself.

>Starkiller was apparently mobile
Han and the crew track down a free moving planet the size of texas

QUESTION
Who hates Star wars more?
Alec Guiness or Harrison Ford?

>Hey let's turn a planet into a deathstar without anyone noticing something which even the original empire couldn't pull off.

Nigga plz

It was well made but there were too many needless characters and the dialogue was cringey at times.

Alec Guinness only hated Star Wars in retrospect because it overshadowed his more artistically fulfilling work. While shooting the movie he playfully mocked it in private correspondence, but everyone on set said he was the only one who took the movie seriously and didn't think it would fail.

Harrison Ford never hated Star Wars, he just thought Han needed to die to give the series more dramatic weight.

I read a theory that Ford hates Han because the character is exactly like him. It wasn't fun to play for him.

Definitely Guinness, he was supposed to be in Empire Strikes Back but he demanded that Lucas wrote him out of it. He thought that Star Wars was just a soap opera set in space.

Harrison Ford's acting stinks up the screen worse than Anakin.

>Might as well complain why there's sound in space or how Han was able to get to Bespin despite no hyperdrive. Who the fuck cares.
Just because the OT made mistakes doesn't mean it excuses this movie from also making mistakes.

It's derivative, uninspired and fails to provide ANYTHING new to the Star Wars universe. It also promotes the most cancerous current day tropes.

Plus all the things you mentioned.

Watched the whole video, most of this is autistic nitpicking, some of it is valid criticism but he's missing the larger picture, and a few of these points are spot on. If it isn't blatantly obvious TFA is a reboot diffused as a sequel and is me r to start up essentially a whole new franchise of Star Wars media for Disney. It makes perfect business sense and it's probably the best thing that they could do with what they were given. That said the story rings too similar to ANH, it dosent feel as genuine as the OT, and the music sucked.

As far as the worth of the prequels and where TFA fits in and Lucas' legacy, honestly if you haven't read "How StarWars Conquered the Universe" it's hard to make valid arguments on the subject. That book details so much of what was going on behind the scenes that it really paints the original films, the prequels, and Lucas in a new light.

Anyway that particular video is alright, he has some points, but he's about as charismatic as a dead trout and his arguments are framed at middle school levels of "this is dumb because I feel it's dumb".

I watched it for free and fell asleep the first time. Second time made it through, but it was just boring. Seeing the original cast was nice. Didnt really care for any of the new people.

>tell me why the movie is bad without mentioning the legit reason for why it's bad

ladies and gentlemen, the logic of your average mousefag

Rey doesn't have a character arc

Badly written
mediocre characters
lazy story telling and writing
OST is subpar compared to other SW movies.

It was pretty forgettable outside of the lightsaber fights, they should have taken more risks with it and now Rogue One is fucked since they're trying to make it more family friendly like 7.

>That book details so much of what was going on behind the scenes that it really paints the original films, the prequels, and Lucas in a new light.

I loved it when he LITERALLY called George Lucas a cuck

She does, it's not complex, but it's there

5 > 4 > 3 > 6 > 1 > 7 > 2

For me there isnt a single moment from TFA that would excite me to rewatch it.

He literally was a cuck. What must make it even worse is that his wife was very talented and it was at least partially due to her editing skills that the first Star Wars came together as much as it did.

However my favorite part of the book is how Lucas came up with Count Dooku's name.

>Rey beat a trained dark Jedi.

People who say this are idiots incapable of comprehending a character arc. A villain in a children's movie is too complex for them, it's laughable.

>hurr durr doesn't follow physics

Yeah, fuck off, Star Wars has NEVER followed the laws of physics, are you just going to ignore the sound in space? Eat shit

>I bypassed the character development!
Rey was too strong and too good without developing any. Luke took 3 films to become a badass, Anakin took 3 films to become a badass, and Obi-Wan was at the end of his training in the first film and STILL took till the 3rd film to fully realize his badass potential.

Rey becomes a badass over the course of 1 film with almost no development. Luke was still uncomfortable with the Force and failing at it in the second film of his trilogy. Rey beat a trained dark Jedi.

That's not to mention the retreading of old territory the movie did with the "totally not another death star", that somehow drained a sun of all its energy to fire... but was going to be able to fire more than once.. and that base would be useless after the star was drained, and the entire planet wouldn't move.

Not to mention.. in what fucking physics can you observe a planet on one side of the galaxy destroying another star system light years away.. from a 3rd planet, light years away.. in real time?

I'm sorry but Episode VII is vying for worst Star Wars movie at this point. I can't decide between it, Episode II, and Episode I.. all were really bad.

Mary sue and almost identical to A New Hope.

Episode VII has a lot of problems, but it's problems are entirely different than the problems that the prequels have. And at least in my opinion these problems in Ep VII aren't as critical.

What character arc? She has no training and is mind tricking using telekinesis and beating someone who has had training in a lightsaber fight. Kylo Ren's training might not be COMPLETE but he's had a hell of a lot more training than she has, probably years, and he's turned to the Dark Side which is supposed to be quicker and easier to master.

There's basically no way she should have beat him.

>Sound in space
Forgivable, because no sound in space makes for boring space fights. But there's only so far you can push suspension of disbelief, and the star base destroying things from across the galaxy instantly broke it for me.

I was referring to Kylo Ren, you idiot. He lost that fight because he was a fucking emotional wreck and was mortally wounded. He was totally out of tune with the true spirit of the force because he was so obsessed with his own bloodline (midichlorians BTFO) and he refused to fully let the Force act through him because he was afraid of being pulled back to the light. He's also losing his shit because he thought killing his own dad would make him stronger but it only fucked him up more

and you know he also took a shot to the gut from a bowcaster

>suspension of disbelief

Oh fuck off, nigger, this is literally space fantasy with magic and wizards, you're a pedantic piece of shit, you must be a blast at parties

The problems with the prequels are a child actor and a CGI character created for children (Episode I), aging CGI technology, the world looking too shiny, new and advanced compared to the original trilogy which is supposed to be new and more advanced but the aesthetic was more worn and utilitarian looking, and poor dialogue that wasn't able to be salvaged because they didn't have the same caliber of actors as the Original Trilogy. I mean, Ewan is good, but he's no Harrison Ford when it comes to improvising his lines to make them sound better and more charming.

Either way, at least Episode III was decent. Episode II.. I can't stand the diner scene, the death sticks scene and the hammy on screen "romance" between Anakin and Padme. Epsidoe I.. while pod racing is a meme, it was bad, and Jar Jar was awful.

Episode VII had Rey being awful enough to make it vy for those 2 in competition for worst of the worst.

This too, one of the things that made Luke so interesting was that he was very imperfect and went through actual hardships, while getting his ass handed to him plenty of times.
Rey is really bland and only has the waifu appeal, the whole sequence with her suddenly discovering the force and being able to use it so easily tuned me out.

Rey being good at the Force isn't even remotely as big of a problem as the prequels, dude. They're fundamentally broken movies on every level.

The Force isn't fucking DBZ powerlevels.

The sole fact that you HAVE to make a list of arguments to exclude is proof enough that it's bad.

It's not bad but it's also not very good. It's the beginning of Disney turning Star Wars into a marvel-like boring turdfest.

Glib facsimile

>innocent people, not the random stormtrooper dying
But in this movie the stormtroopers ARE innocent people, since they've been brainwashed.
Your argument is invalid.

>She's a mechanic. Luke wasn't
Okay, fuck you you don't know shit about star wars.

>routine everything
nothing had a sense of peril, even the planets blowing up was this brief spectacle that was rushed by before people moved onto planning to blow up the death star again. Really ruined the film.

The reasons you listed are perfectly valid it's literally a cash grab and you fucking know it. I was entertained when I saw it but I realised it was because it was just episode 4 again. Didn't stop me from enjoying it but it's lazy at its core

Remix fan-fiction

The main characters were boring as fuck.

Finn was a soldier from birth/young age turned traitor yet shows no signs of this background in his character. We never see him struggle with fitting in with common folk, his ingrained training hindering him or even helping him, or any conflict killing his former brothers in arms.

Rey is plain boring, there's nothing defining about her except she can do anything the plot requires, and the more.

Kylo not being bad ass is a massive problem though, because the movie and following trilogy lacks a threatening villain. Snoke is a joke and kylo is laughable. It's the same problem with grevious and dooku. It needs a serious villain.

It never really explored anything, just jumped from place to place.

The actual plot makes zero sense, "a map to Luke"? What the fuck? R2D2 just wakes up with the other half... It's just really poorly written.

The Luke map is stupid.

How in the fuck can you even find a map to a person?

I can't.
It's an amazing movie.

Harrison Ford did a shit job and you could tell he was there for a paycheck. His lines were cringey.

The cantina bar scene was cringe too, that alien lady sucked

It was lackluster...so-so...wishy-washy

>rehashing old ideas
>weak dialogues
>mary-sue
>atrocious ADHD pacing and editing

>The Resistance is separate from the Republic. And the only requirement for a "resistance" is that it's resisting something.
This is such a cop-out.

I liked the idea of Finn's character. It's a shame they didn't do anything with it.

Boring main cast.

Reuse far too much things from OT.

0 explaining on what is happening in the galaxy and why.

Voldemort.

Ebin space lazor you can see from the other side of the galaxy.

Death Star but BIGGER!!!!!

>but Starkiller was apparently mobile

You are telling me that a whole planet with atmosphere can move through hyperspace?

What's the point of ships and fleets then? Just put engines on fucking planets. Along those guns they had on Hoth.

Its just retelling the story of a new hope. Not just going "history repeats itself" but lets reboot it without making it obvious.

That's because it is. They need the good guys to always be the underdogs even though it makes no fucking sense. They don't wanna show the new republic acting like a police force now?

It's a remake of the original Star Wars that brings nothing new to the table

Shit characters
Rehashed A New Hope
The only thing that made the film truly memorable was the fact that Han Solo died
Far too fucking convenient
I.E. the Millenium Falcon reveal which instead of being explained, the convenience is hidden by a fucking joke

abrams master of copy and paste
>muh prophecy!

The depth of sheevs master plan and senate shenanigans are far more interesting than anything happening in force awakens. More over the choreography was great

it's an exact copy of the first movie

>you have 10 seconds to tell me why this movie was bad, without mentioning
>the makers of the film
>the motivation for the movie
>the demographics of any of the protagonists
>the very relevant discussion over what constitutes a strong female character in today's cinema
>the strength of the antagonist
>the continuity of the sequel

Are you fucking retarded?

Movie was great but i disliked starkiller base, poe, finn and kylo ren

No

>Rey is a Mary Sue with almost no story
>Boyega is ok, but he looks like a gorilla that has no idea why it's in a movie so fuck that
>deus ex machinas and bullshit coincidences make up 90% of the plot
>meh pacing
>story has some stupid elements
>the bad guys are still presented as a serious threat, even though they are retarded

"Derivative" and "derived" (which is what I think you meant) are not related. The former is a physics word. Anyway, the movie would HAVE to be derived, as it is a sequel. Beyond that, completely original content is rare as fuck. Generally, everything we read or watch is derived from something.

Rey really is boring, though.

Well when the sun fucking disappears I suppose the planet would just hurl through space until it gets hooked by another system's gravity.

>but everyone on set said he was the only one who took the movie seriously
Because the man was a consummate professional. But his dislike for the movies is pretty well documented.

This. You can give them a power point presentation on why the movie was bad, and they'll give you made up theories/opinions on why your criticisms are wrong or they'll say you're nitpicking.

This. The best actors are the ones who treat it like a job and take pride in THEIR work, not the overall result of movies.

Rey is a Mary sue

>where was this stated?
where was stated that it wasn't?
literally retarded thinking. What did you expect?
>but what is the Starkiller Base exactly, Finn? I want to know everything
>10 minutes later
>ok now let's talk about shields
buy that book with film lore if you are that kind of fanboi

Alec Guinness and Harrison Ford pretty much are why people remember the original trilogy movies fondly at all, if not for them salvaging the bad script (and actually, Hamill and Fisher weren't bad either) we'd look at them today like we look at the prequels. The prequels had just as bad of scripts they just didn't have the same caliber of actors to salvage those scripts and make corny into campy. Harrison Ford especially was able to make the dialogue, which if he'd stuck to what was written in the script, would be just as stiff and awful as it was in the prequels. Harrison Ford ad libbed a lot of his lines, and well, made them better.

>Movie felt way too short
>So many plot holes such as how the Empire were able to build a massive Death Star carved into a planet in only 30 years when all the Empire were defeated
>Movie should have begun when Kylo was dropped off at Luke's Jedi Academy: as we get to know him more and why he joined the dark side
But of course due to JJ wanting to make an absolute copy of A New Hope: we had to begin the movie with Kylo in the mask and Stormtroopers massacring an area just like A New Hope begins
>JJ should have gone with the original script idea where Luke is met earlier in the film and Rey and Luke go on adventures together as they track down ancient artifacts - this then would have let Luke come face to face with Han and eventually Leia and all 3 of the original team would have been reunited
>Rey is a Mary Sue: absolutely makes no sense with how she knows everything about the force; is able to do Jedi mind tricks without anyone teaching her... if JJ filmed a scene with her reading a book about the Jedi myths or about Han explaining to her about the force then it would have all made sense - only way for it to now make sense is if Rey is a reincarnation of Anakin which explains why all powers come easy to her
>Luke would never abandon all his friends and become a hermit (again JJ is doing this just so Episode 8 is exactly like ESB with Rey going to be trained with a Yoda like wise Jedi).
>Why the fuck does Rey need to be trained? She is a Mary Sue who knows everything? She almost beat a Sith Lord (who cares if he was injured).
>The lack of Prequel content (such as no prequel planet ever mentioned) disturbed me greatly