Is this suppose to be an objective, raw, non-biased study of race relations in America, or what?
I kept waiting for the movie to refute Derek and tell us why racism, nationalism, and protecting one's family and property using a firearm is wrong but that never happens.
Are we suppose to just assume that since the characters are anti-multiculturalism that means they're objectively wrong? Kind of like arguments that are at their core "buT iTS twO ThOUsAnD SiXTEeN". Don't get me wrong, Derek curb stomping the guy was uncalled for and the neo-Nazis kids are presented as hatefilled and unlikable, but the movie does a better job at supporting Derek's views rather than the contrary.
>Derek curb stomping the guy was uncalled for fuck off. that's my favorite scene of any movie i have ever seen
Ryan Brooks
I didn't say it was a bad scene, I was just saying it's the only time in the movie where Derek is shown to "cross the line" so to speak.
Henry Wilson
Not to mention after Derek turns his ways and views around his little brother who was innocent of any crimes gets shot by a black kid.
What am I supposed to say about an ending like that?
Landon Walker
it would be pretty cool if they did that to set it up for a sequel where he goes on a nigger killing rampage
Isaiah King
The movie offers no arguments. It seems it just expects audiences to just to assume Derek and his friends are committing some sort of terrible thought crime.
Angel Watson
>What am I supposed to say about an ending like that? That there can never be understanding or peace.
Jack Wood
Don't you guys get it? The point of the movie is to show that regardless of race, HATE is bad. Both blacks and whites are portrayed as hateful and ignorant, but at the same time there are blacks and whites who are also good people. The black kid killing Danny at the end was to show that "Hey look guys, black people are bad, white people are bad, black people and white people can be good too tho". The fact that this flew over your guys' heads kinda shows how legitimately racist you guys are, whether it be from a uberliberal "b b b but blacks cant do nothing mean!" point of view or from a /pol point of view.
Noah Johnson
>71760000
Jayden Russell
>HATE is bad
That is the gayest thing I have ever heard
Jace Perry
Lol so is hate good? Are you that much of an edgy contrarian? Also it's the central message of the film, not necessarily my own opinion. (Although it is, because I'm a healthy human being)
Caleb Cooper
some of us agree with you user
William Murphy
Conflict is the basis of our existence.
>calls user edgy contrarian >loves Hitler
Well you walked into that one.
Daniel Morris
Not him but hate is a perfectly normal emotion and to say that it's not good is to deny a part of what human nature is.
Isaac Scott
I didn't say that hate is good just that this notion that we can stop the hate and get along and shit is gay. Rather that gayness is good or bad is up to you.
Benjamin Ramirez
Rape is a perfectly normal urge in young men, it's just a part of their nature.
Hate is for cowardly children.
Christopher Cox
>It was morally right because it looks good in a movie scene
Michael Lee
Killing another person for food is natural. That doesn't mean it's alright.
Although I don't think hate is always bad. I think the media trying to push everything as "mindless hate" is absolutely retarded.
James Harris
>Hate is for cowardly children I have no idea what you're even talking about anymore. >Killing another person for food is natural Cannibalism isn't good for the survival of the species though, don't be an idiot.
Luis Cox
Name a situation where expressing hatred is a mature and productive thing to do.
Joshua James
I didn't mean cannibalism. I meant fighting over food, which is natural.
Kayden Hill
The only reason Derek survived prison is the funny black guy, his only real friend in there. That's the point where he realized it's all bullshit, what he stood for beforehand, and really the underlying point of the movie.
Cameron Morris
It sure helps to hate your enemy during a war. If you're a soldier who doesn't get to decide whether you want to be there or not, hating the enemy can help you feel better. It might not make much sense, but it helps. Oh, well that's different. Fighting over food in a situation where it's actually necessary is alright though. I mean, if you're going to starve to death if you don't kill someone else, would you choose to starve to death?
Asher Flores
Fighting over food when it's not necessary is also natural though. Just being a terrible person in general is very natural. That's why rape is natural, along with other things.
Jace Martin
>hate can be helpful if you need to kill someone
I agree.
Hate has no place in the daily lives of people living in a civilized country. It's the quickest way to out yourself as a scape goating loser.
Carson Barnes
>when it's not necessary is also natural though No it isn't, animals in nature avoid conflict whenever possible. >Just being a terrible person in general is very natural No it isn't, humans are a social species and it's natural to behave in a manner that's good for the group. It's how we evolved. Going against that is in fact unnatural.
Nathaniel Lewis
>Just being a terrible person in general is very natural.
That's debatable.
John Evans
I think it's a wonderful thought that there's still people so idealistic and naive as you, who have never been wronged in their lives in any meaningful way. Keep it up Candide!
Charles Davis
This, I absolutely agree.
And I also completely subscribe to your view on the purpose of the film, spot on buddy.
John Campbell
Ouch!
Juan Garcia
>derek's dad gives a bunch of valid and important criticisms of affirmative action >all of his points are invalidated because he says nigger
Robert Price
>man rapes woman in BC times >another man tries to stop him >man kills the man trying to stop him
>not natural
Caleb Jackson
>i am 14
Alexander Ross
So how many of you expected this to be our future when we were all 9 or 10 years old?
I have fully came to the conclusion that I will never have children. I will spare them the agony of living in our society because I love them.
Blacks and Whites will never co-exist peacefully.
Blake Hernandez
>something bad happened to me >better spread my own bad feelings around with hatred and violence >better perpetuate the cycle of negativity because I'm immature
Listen to yourself. I bet you are about to call me a hippy.
Christopher Jenkins
>two examples of antisocial behavior that go against the group Yeah, that guy is getting executed, because rape and murder were crimes in BC times just like they are today.
Jose Hughes
>Derek's dad assumes that just because a book is about race and written by a black man it is automatically not a 'great,' book >Derek's dad encourages his son to think while giving him a once sided interpretation of a scenario >Derek's dad misleads his son so poorly it causes a chain of events that ends in needless death >also he says nigger
Caleb Jackson
It isn't hard OP
There are good people and there are shitty people.
The shitty people try to make us focus on race, leech welfare payments and waste their lives.
The good people advance humanity by working, treating others with decency and participating civilly in the democratic process.
Choose which you want to belong to.
Jose Gonzalez
h-heh me too, i'm never having children because s-society and that
Levi Phillips
>wahhh the world is so far removed from my backwards, conservatard prejudices and I'm literally too retarded and/or emotionally immature to at all re-evaluate my world view
wew lad, please don't even try to reproduce
Nolan Brown
Dude, calm down. I just told you it's a good thing you're able to judge people who have been through events you yourself have not. I think it's great that you can look down on everyone from your little cuddlebox.
Easton Jackson
>having a matured, objectivist world view >on da 4chinzzz
Best get that shit off of here, Einstein.
Ian Ortiz
>his life is literally endangered every day because every workforce needs to be a perfect representation of society >blaming him for death for pointing out that by definition affirmative action causes lower standards
he shouldn't of assumed sisko was a bad teacher or the book wasn't as good but he had plenty of cause to think that way
Kevin Rogers
>he thinks I haven't seen some shit
I went to public school in Chicago and I don't hate all black people. So yeah, I have the right to call you immature.
Zachary Martinez
Give up, dude. He's reking you and you're pulling out all the tricks.
Justin Gomez
Is this the supreme KKKino?
Elijah Russell
>I have the right to call you immature That would imply I hate someone.
Camden Walker
>blaming him for death for pointing out that by definition affirmative action causes lower standards But doesn't he though? Like if he hadn't complained about affirmative action, would Derek have turned out the way he did? Also, those black firemen could have had other qualifications that supported allowing them to join despite their scores, it could have just been assumed affirmative action because of their race, and his own prejudice.
Samuel Long
Edgy af bro
Henry Thompson
You're just calling anything other than peaceful behavior unnatural. Like if a human's actions are perfect examples to move the human race forward they aren't considered natural. It's just extremely debatable.
Daniel Lewis
Holy shit man, made my night with this post.
Henry Russell
>anything other than peaceful behavior unnatural No I'm not, I already said killing for food in a situation where it'd do that or starve is perfectly okay to me. >extremely debatable This is true. Maybe we should stop now.
Tyler Murphy
>marxist producers reading the screenplay of Derek's dad making some good points about free capitalistic competition best-man-for-the-job America >"Oh no! This sounds too reasonable. Better have him throw in some racial slurs and general no-no words so the audience knows he's wrong!"
>Scene where Derek is doing a tv news interview and making decent points about how blacks in America are parasitic because they live off of tax payers and commit the most crime >"Oh no, what if the audience realizes that this accurately reflects reality? Hmmm.. better throw them off and have him mention Asians who have the opposite reputation. That way they realize Derek is actually unreasonable and fictitious and just hates all non-whites!"
Luis Clark
>Maybe we should stop now. Fair enough.
Juan Powell
...
Joshua Cruz
Modern societies are able to reach their heights only because civilised people intentionally forgo a whole number of natural impulses--rape, theft, responding to words with violence--which in turn allows them to co-exist much more peacefully than would otherwise be possible. In primitive tribal groups, who don't have any tradition of abstinence, there's almost always a set population limit (somewhere between 30 and 120), beyond which the group must fracture into two tribes lest they self-implode due to infighting. Yet here we are, nations of tens of millions or even hundreds of millions of people.
In some ways, the plot of this movie is a demonstration of what happens when people haven't moved beyond one of these impulses, that of in-group bias. They waste all their time hating each other, being attacked, and retaliating in turn (often against those who are only peripheral to the enemy group's ruffians, like Danny). It just creates an endless cycle of self-crippling thuggery.
Depending on where you live or if you're retarded, this point might not be super obvious, but it does becomes increasingly evident the second you step into a community that doesn't have this problem. There's no sense of fear. People aren't giving themselves shitty haircuts, or playing basketball in the middle of the workday. As an Australian, when you're taking a piss, the only people you honestly need to worry about shooting you in the back are autistic Americans who couldn't handle the banter.
Of course, that's not to say racism is not the sole reason these people have such shitty lives--poverty is probably a more important factor--but it is one of the reasons.
Nathaniel Jones
But if it's a book on race by a black man then it's a pretty good guess that it's liberal brainwashing bullshit. Hes not wrong just cause be said a no-no world (which is a liberal fantasy that right wing anti-socialist people actually talk like that in general).
Christian Thompson
>Assumptions are all I need to support my argument >Never had that relative that casually drops nigger at the dinner table
Zachary Johnson
ask me how I know you aren't a man
Matthew Flores
That scene where Norton is at the party and his crazy ex-if starts yelling "HE'S A FUCKING NIGGER LOVER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER." makes me crack up every time
Benjamin Reyes
You miss the point of the thread. Yes, everyone understands the surface message of the movie is hate is a vicious cycle.
But the movie uses stupid unrealistic strawmans in order to invalidate the character's conservative nationalist ideals. Instead of explaining why they are wrong, the movie just assumes the person watching is already a hyper liberal and already with them.
Henry Ortiz
I'm sure if it were real life the he would have asked for Derek to paraphrase the book for him then judge it. But since the people who made this movie are leftist they made the dad seem arrogant and unwilling.
And,
>person says no-no word at dinner table
Omg :( r they waycis?
Caleb Fisher
I think everyone pointing out here that Derek's dad had a reasonable argument is evidence the movie didn't rely on strawmen. If the use of the word nigger casually at a dinner table feels suspect then you're looking at things the wrong way. Yes, racist people say nigger, even if they're firemen, even if they're nice guys, they can still drop the word nigger casually. If the neonazis feel like strawmen, it's a movie about neonazis, you go hunt down some skinheads and see how reasonable they really are. They're white trash.
Josiah Garcia
>B-But don't point out that white people are on welfare more than any other race, that's because there's more of them! Now let me go completely against myself by posting a statistic that claims black people are only 12 of the population and do more crime
James Parker
MY EYES HAVE SEEN THE GLORY OF THE TRAMPLING AT THE ZOO
Parker Edwards
Here's your (you). Be at peace and get some sleep.
Henry Jones
Well what I took from it was that both races had their shitskins the Neo Nazis that rape their own and the Niggers that kill a kid for a stupid reason there was still Dereks Family a good family torn apart by the Neo Nazis that "protect" them but they smoke "nigger drugs" have destructive partys and act just as degenerate as the Niggers and then comes along a decent black man who probably worked hard to get where he was and had a white girlfriend you then see the Neo nazi's Chimp out.
Nigger's were Uncivilised All Blacks =/= Nigger NeoNazi's were Uncivilised All Whites =/= NeoNazi's
It was pretty Simple.
Zachary Davis
>What am I supposed to say about an ending like that?
Es ist Zeit für Reich.
Jace Powell
>I think everyone pointing out here that Derek's dad had a reasonable argument is evidence the movie didn't rely on strawmen.
But the movie doesn't want you to think that Derek's dad has a good point. They try to invalidate the dad's ideas by injecting some extra arrogant dialogue to paint the dad as a liberal wet dream waycis.
Michael Foster
The white supremacist group in the movie are without a doubt better than the gang banging blacks in the movie.
Just because they don't dream of a multiculturilist America doesn't make them white trash. Other than the curb stomp they were completely in their own right through out the movie.
Julian Sanders
He's telling him not to listen to his teacher, of course he's being arrogant, that's not extra, and that doesn't invalidate what he say's, it's the whole point of his argument. Be suspicious, be critical, especially of niggers. This suspicion causes Derek to go to jail, and Danny to get shot. How much more reasonably do you want him to say it that this doesn't happen?
Jace Roberts
This movie was a thinly veiled 'we are all the same' ploy by the Jews. To be fair the moral of the story can be true in some instances. In reality statistics show that brown people commit a disproportionate amount of crime compared to white and Asian counterparts. The narrative is unrealistic in a castle state. Since the men at his house were committing a forcible felony, he would be within his right to kill them (in non-libtard states). The problem exists from the curb stomp, that is no longer defense. he should have shot them all to death before his autism made him do the hokey pokey on Jerome's watermelon crusher.
I think the point that a reasonable person takes away from this movie is that neo nazis are just as bad as niggers. The whole 'need for the neo nazi club' was to protect a middle class white family from niggers, but ironically was what ultimately destroyed it.
I can also confirm people will do anything for hard drugs, and the actions depicted that happened to nazi boy could very well happen. Heroine makes people do insane shit. As far as it happening commonly, probably not.
>TL;DR People are fucking terrible
Matthew Morris
Derek went to jail because he got hot headed and used excessive force when protecting his family and property. Using the gun to shoot the armed perpetrators? Perfectly fine. Brutally curb stomping one of them? Jail sentence.
His father's good guidance didn't lead go any of incident, it was his temper. But other than that he did the right thing and kept his family safe.
Chase White
I'm not even sure what side you are on
Jackson Cruz
>but ironically was what ultimately destroyed it.
But the question is: is this realistic? Would of whites with the simple common interest in looking out for other whites and their famalies really end up imploding in practice? And is making such a group really such a bad thing?
Dominic Torres
Love that entire scene. Stacy Keach is great as Cam.
Evan Rodriguez
>Would of whites
group of*
Henry Perez
Did you forget the scene in the supermarket?
Jaxon Edwards
>All Blacks =/= Nigger no just most of em
Isaiah Baker
Cycle of violence, pretty obvious mate.
Rache, you pleb.
Ethan Wood
he meant Reich as in Third Reich time...you fucking newfag...
Joseph Taylor
I don't know. I do know that extremists of any flavor are usually bad. If you want to resist the violent sub-culture of brown people, use the current infrastructure of police and legal systems. You aren't going to gain anything by acting like a nigger yourself. You can hopefully see how that would negatively perpetuate the white paradigm. I am proud to be a white person, however the neo nazi groups are not a reflection of my beliefs. If anything we should hold ourselves to a higher standard, and with groups like this we see the complete opposite.
I mean considering most of them live in Ghettos yeah sure but White Trailer Trash and Ghetto Mexicans are just as bad
Mason Diaz
>White Trailer Trash and Ghetto Mexicans are just as bad
Do you really think that?
Jordan Wright
Fucking nigger bullshit
Leo Cook
>perfectly reasonable and civil conversation >suddenly NIGGER BULLSHIT XD AREN'T NIGGERS INFERIOR TO US PURE ARYANS Eugh.
Chase Sanders
That's the frustrating part to me. There are several valid racist points, and it is diluted in the cesspool of 'huurrr derr dem damn niggers and there nigger whait powah white powah!'
Dylan Gomez
found the guy whose gf got fucked by a black dude
Tyler Morris
yea most people on this board are on the spectrum. you are right on your analysis though.
Brayden Hill
Yeah well except it all started with a black guy killing dereks dad and another one trying to steal his dads car.
Did anyone NOT hate the black kid at the end? Yeah you lost your brother but whos fault was that really?
Isaiah Smith
a movie supports the anti-racist side >FUCKING LIBERAL MEDIA JEWS AGENDA
a movie abstains from judging sides >FUCKING LIBERAL MEDIA JEWS AGENDA
Tum/pol/er is cancer. Triggered effeminate snowflakes playing the victim.
Henry Wood
Originally Derek was supposed to shave his head again after John Connor got killed but Edward Norton refused. The idea was that it was showing the cycle of violence [reality] but instead I guess it came off as justifying neonazism.
I think the idea of the film is to get you to sympathize with Derek even though you know that you're not supposed to. It's challenging normal socially acceptable behaviour within the framework of "well, WE all know this is wrong, but this is why THE CHARACTER thinks this way and is not just some irrational racist." It shows that even a normal person can become a neonazi.
So yes there is a presumption that we all know what they're doing/believing is wrong. I don't think any actual neonazi would come out of watching American History X thinking that it glorifies his/her lifestyle though. They'd probably think "pfft, I'm not being manipulated, these are MY OWN thoughts that I came up with all by myself!"
Jace Green
Looking forward to the 10th grade this Autumn anons?
Isaac Rogers
What the hell is the 10th grade? Grade school ends at 9.
Adrian Collins
You quoted a ton of people with apposing views. What are you even trying to say
Luis Long
He's saying give me (You)s.
Justin Thomas
As the movie progresses a divide grows between his desire to solve the problems in life that motivated him to turn to extremism and the extremist movement itself, he comes to realize that the real world is nebulous and complicated and his black and white view of the world was never going to give him any real answers.
The movie is not an assault on racism specifically, it could equally apply to islamic extremists or the black panthers.
Michael Bennett
I'm a graduate student... The semester already started unfortunately... You are making no sense the people you quoted have conflicting opinions.