How did he manage to travel to the ship undetected and then turn on his camera?

How did he manage to travel to the ship undetected and then turn on his camera?

because it's a very dumb movie

how did he get lost in a cave he just completely mapped?

How did he have the complete lack of intuition to provoke an alien snake on an alien planet

Snake was a penis, he was gay, it'a was literally poetry.

Why did he become a zombie who could only be killed with fire?

Yeah OP, watch intelligent movies like Interstellar. The more accurate a movie's science is the better it is.

When they found the old head, why did they immediately jam it with probes and fry it with electricity, rendering it useless to further study?

Why did they have an axe on the spaceship?
It's not even a space axe or something, the handle is just a bit retarded.
makes no sense desu.

How did Ridley Scott think this was going to revolutionise sci fi?

Originally he became a human-alien hybrid that could only be killed with fire. They changed it because they thought that was too confusing.

He traveled there on the tail end of the storm that was fucking with their comms and sensor array, the camera was on the whole time, the Prometheus just wasn't getting a signal.

He didn't have access to the map data, it was transmitted to the Prometheus and the storm severed their connection, additionally, he was very high.

He didn't, that was his partner, the biologist. In a deleted scene he was seen marveling over a new species of worm that was native to the planet and later finding the shed skin of a larger specimen, he believed it was related and posed no threat, additionally their suits were shown to be exceedingly sturdy and could survive hefty, sustained bombardments from sharp projectiles without any damage.

The goo was a bioweapon that was turning him into a Xenomorph

>space axe

why did prometheus decapitate david?

To show Weyland that his creation is shit and far from perfect.

They didn't, the axe was on the survival pod, axes are useful tools for survival.

The head was exceptionally well preserved, they believed they could bring it back to life with electrical stimulation, if they failed they could go back for the other bodies.

by making the genre about new ideas, speculation, theoretical concepts and a sense of wonder rather than fictional textbooks on screen (Interstellar, The Martian) or capeshit in space (Star Wars VII, Star Trek: The Homosexing, Guardians of the Galaxy). But no, 'le space travels makes sharp tools useless and I would have run from the snek therefore the movie is dumb.'

Engineers hated humanity and saw us as bastardized and flawed versions of them. Then this stupid gimpy synthetic-human toy thinks that because it found you and bastardized your language it's entitled to immortality, it makes sense that he became enraged and fucked them up.

>They changed it because they thought that was too confusing.

Weyland presented David as proof of his ability to create life, which he thought entitled him to immortality.

The engineer considered this a poor imitation of life and gave Weyland as much additional life as he believed he deserved.

>I would have run from the snek therefore the movie is dumb

The movie is dumb because of the stock character archetypes, the forced symbolism, no internal logic or consistacy (as there was in Alien/Bladerunner), shit dialogue and a bunch of other lazy, incompetant writing decisions.

>stock character archetypes
this is only really the supporting cast who don't really need depth. Archetypes save us time. I prefer 'this is rowdy guy, this is nerdy guy, this is black pilot guy' over 'this is billy from kansas he likes turtles and wanted to be an astronaut when he grew up and his favourite color is purple and- oh he's dead.'

>forced symbolism
Where? There are no giant crosses if I remember right.

>no internal logic or consistency
I challenge you to back this up in a way that doesn't sound like needling asshurt.

>shit dialogue
It's not so bad. I actually really liked David and nobody said anything outstandingly bad.

>lazy, incompetent writing decisions
no your favourite movie is full of lazy, incompetent writing decisions, do you get what I did there? There's not depth to anything you've written, unless you elaborate and provide examples you might as well have been writing from a template. People underrate Armond White, shittalking a movie well is actually in incredibly hard and thoughtful process.

But David survived decapitation. Doesn't this prove that he was better than humans (i.e. space jokeys' creation)?

>survived
but he was never alive

David might be smart and just about indestructible but I think that the gist of it is that even David, an ideal human form, still doesn't have shit on Engineers and Weyland is a punk for ever thinking that he did.

Humans made a thing that is tough and super-smart, engineers made a thing that is smart enough to make that thing. That probably puts them on a whole other level compared to even the most powerful human intellect. Ted Kacynszki would probably be a moron to these guys.

Lol all these contrarian shitting on Prometheus getting absolutely BTFO by someone that actually watched and paid attention to a movie

I am convinced all the anons shitting on a movie that doesnt deserve to be shifted on never actually paid attention to the movie they are shitting on

>Archetypes save us time.

Stopped reading here. This isn't Fast and the Furious or a teen slasher movie. Ridley Scott has proved he's better than this. Stock archetypes = bad writer (or meddling producers). Horror has been ruined by them, things like Don't Look Now and the Exorcist didn't need that shit, neither did Bladerunner or Alien. The characters in those movies came across as realistic, despite the fantastic shit happening around them. This grounds the movie and draws you in.

You don't need long winded exposition to make a non-archetypal supporting character, either. You just need to not be a hack.

Good job on dancing around the issue and not actually addressing the point

Why waste time typing

Wasn't the guy you replied to btw

David was awesome, pitch perfect.
Ridley Scott filmed the unfilmable At the Mountains of Madness, a tale much lumbered with preparation and arrangements for the trek, which sets the reader up with a feeling of distance for the horrors to be experienced in. It's not a quick canoe paddle to the ruins, it's a loooong way from home and Scott showed his respect for Lovecraft by doing pretty much the same.
It's not what happened, it's the setting and the ramifications for all of humanity.
Fuckin brats and their critiques are a drag.

Imagine you're on a planet light years away from earth and you see a weird looking snake thing
Do you
a) keep your distance
b) touch it like a kindergarten spaz
?

>Ted Kacynszki would probably be a moron to these guys.
But user, Ted Kacynski WAS a moron, an ignorant moron at that. From one badly made joke made by a coffee colored co-worker he extrapolated that all middle-eastern people don't value life.

>Ridley Scott filmed the unfilmable At the Mountains of Madness

Literally what I was thinking after seeing Prometheus

>derp there are alien worms in my eye and I just had unprotected sex with my wife, no need to mention it to anyone though

>derp I just self-aborted a bloody squid fetus and have a stapled together stomach wound, won't tell anyone though (nor does anyone comment on me staggering round smeared in blood and amniotic fluid)

>derp I'm 99 fucking years old and want to ask the aliens for the secret of immortality, hmm the best way to do that is assemble a crew of fucktards and put them into hypersleep without them even meeting each other let alone training together for this crucial mission

>derp 2000 year old volatile fluid in a bomb shaped canister, better take my mask off and have a big ole sniff, mmm-mmm

>derp isn't that hissing, cobra like alien penis worm cute, let's make friends with it

>derp let's risk everyone lives to get alien head despite there being dozens of identical corpses scattered through base

>derp let's shout quarantine AFTER we've all dissected alien head on kitchen table with no masks

>DERP I AM ENGINEER AND WANT TO CREATE BIOLOGICAL WEAPON, HOW ABOUT AN INVISIBLE SUBCELLULAR VIRUS THAT CALMLY EXTERMINATES ALL LIFE, NOPE THAT'S BORING, GIANT EASILY SEEN AND SHOT RAPE SQUID IS MUCH MORE EFFICIENT

>Ridley Scott has proved he's better than this
Since you're such a big fan of the RLM School of Kino-Riffing describe Gaff from Blade Runner without mentioning what he does or how he dresses, then Childs and Windows from The Thing, then the guy with the hat from Alien.

>Horror has been ruined by them
No horror was ruined by focusing on chasing the success that only genuine creativity can produce with imitation. Ersatz efforts got ersatz earnings but as long as they could shit out a profit nobody cared. Don't think of those kinds of 'horror' movies as actual movies, as far as movies as art goes they have no bearing on anything, they were made because there was money to made, the characters weren't an artistic decision, they were just churned out to get that shit done before normalfaggots found a new bread and circus.

>came across as realistic
I think that there's some merit to this, but that's just how movies were made pre-80s. It's kind of mind-blowing that you can take any unremarkable movie from the 70s and the performances feel absolutely amazing in how natural they are after watching pretty much anything made in the last 10 years. I think that that's mostly due to the influence of stage/theater almost completely leaving movies now that the medium has a long enough history that it can get by drawing solely from itself.

>You don't need long winded exposition to make a non-archetypal supporting character either. You just need to not be a hack
See my last point here, I disagree. I actually think that it's more or less impossible to get a natural performance out of Hollywood these days. You might not have realized but both of the movies you brought up as examples were made in the 70s, my favourite era for hollywood and a time when movies were simply different. Think now, do any of Prometheus' contemporaries do what you think a horror/science-fiction movie should do? Maybe your problem is with the era rather than the specific movie.

its an incoherent piece of shit movie
no matter how desperately you try to defend it fanboy

I've actually worked with these types of scientist who think nature can be dealt with like that. In their heads is this idea that we are mistaken to treat animals as hostile, since they are just designed to do their thing and don't actually prey on humans. It's a hard view to explain, but i know it when i see it. Saw a guy get a fuck of a bite from a big rainforest centipede in northern Queensland because he was all: "Aw look she's taken shelter in my pack by mistake OH JESUS THAT BURNS."
Ok he didn't pick it up but he wasn't being as careful as i would've because he had that here-i'm-going-to-show-you-critters-are-nothing-to-be-scared-of thing going on.

>>no internal logic or consistency
>I challenge you to back this up in a way that doesn't sound like needling asshurt.

Well, remember how Alien/Bladerunner had rules in their setting? The Alien followed a strict life cycle and learning about it is part of how Ripley is able to survive it. Bladerunner, a dystopia, is all about the limitations of androids and those limitations are explored, but they don't change. The first Matrix was like this, the third broke the established setting and people hate it for it. Prometheus doesn't have that underlying logic to it. The goo makes weird shit happen. It makes many different kinds of weird shit happen so we have varied effects instead of effectively communicating the concept of an alien super weapon. There's no consistancy.

You are just too simple to understand movies that arent capeshit. Because any sort of thinking gets you confused which turns into anger out of misunderstanding

>I think that that's mostly due to the influence of stage/theater almost completely leaving movies now
This is true, movie actors used to show there theatrical training because theatrical acting involves the body. Movie actors act with their eyes. It's possible to be a screen actor now with no theatrical experience and get awards.

0/10
apply yourself

prometheus is on the same level as capeshit, if not even worse than hollwood blockbuster flicks

same level as capeshit? Nah.
Just nah.

>Prometheus is on the same level as capshit

0/10 apply yourself

You are too stupid to understand and pay attention to Prometheus therefore you are either retarded or it is infact on a higher level than capeshit

>derp how do I criticize a movie actually talk about filmmaking, no I'll just list plot elements preceded by 'derp' that'll show them
When I criticize a movie I think to myself, if I were talking to the director would I say this? Hating a movie is perfectly fine but if I met Christopher Nolan face to face and he asked me if I had problems with the movie I wouldn't say 'LOL DR PAVEL I'M CIA HOLY SHIT YOU'RE RETARDED MAN,' I'd try to actually think on it and make some real points, like shoddy looking action, minor character subplots seemed boring or unworthy of screentime, a generally blank and unimpressive look and sound to the whole movie, that kind of thing.

Well you showed me.

>well remember how alien/bladerunner had rules in their setting
Are we talking about D&D or movies?
>The Alien followed a strict life cycle and learning about it is part of how Ripley is able to survive it.
>Blade Runner, a dystopia
I've tried to be generous but I can't stand the way you write, what was the point of mentioning that Blade Runner is a dystopia, did you just want to show off your big word? If you're trying to sound old enough to use this site you're failing.
>is all about the limitations of androids and those limitations are explored, but they don't change
Fucking RLM, Cinemasins youtube-'critic' cancer are going to fucking destroy filmmaking by highlighting arbitrary shit and acting like it's inherently wrong because their subscriber-count gives them authority.
>Goo makes weird shit happen
yes, it does
>many different kinds of shit happen
yes
>varied effects instead of effectively communicating the concept of an alien super weapon
Here's the heart of the issue I've got with your point and it's so simple I can't believe I have to point it out. You're treating the mysterious nature of the goo as a failure on Scott's part rather than a mystery. Maybe he didn't want you know exactly what it does, does that matter?
>no consistency
Why is this bad?

>that need for rules
Maybe there's consistency at a level you can't read.
Alien was the story of sexual contact between two spaceships, one dead. See the three holes? Not there just because Giger was a freak. On that level the encounter was between one space-faring critter, the Nostromo, from a fledgling sky travelling culture, getting too intimate with an ancient and dead space critter. On another level it was a haunted house story. The human level.
Blade runner was about the dehumanising effects on a man whose specialty is decommissioning machines that are too human. If they are so human he gets spiritually wrecked by shooting them, is it right to gun them down? Bottom line is they are super powerful threats. Also a hint there that Deckard might be a replicant.
The engineer's goo? Rather than crying inconsistency because you don't understand what it was for, think of it this way: it was dangerous stuff they had stored far away. Ever seen a biohazard sign? Lots of information about toxicity, acidity and flammability there, not much information for a chimp or a rat though. Those wall pictures in the vault were the engineer version of a HAZCHEM sign, detailing the need for careful storage and possible effects of spills, but on a much more complex level because they were as far ahead of us as we are of chimps. I loved that.
Your critique is simple, your target isn't.

>Since you're such a big fan of the RLM School of Kino-Riffing describe Gaff from Blade Runner without mentioning what he does or how he dresses,

A taciturn, cryptic observer who manipulates and hints instead of being direct. Gaff is a good character, he's meant to be underwritten. Brett, hat guy, is morose, sardonic and resentful of younger people who are better paid. Childs is a pretty stock, 80s action black guy, I admit, and I don't remember Windows doing anything, so you have me there.

>Maybe your problem is with the era rather than the specific movie.

This is a really valid point, but I've recently enjoyed 10 Cloverfield Lane and Europa Report and I would argue that Ex Machina is a horror of sorts. It's not Rosemary's Baby levels of slow burn development, but it proves character driven stuff can still slip through the cracks and I'm not ready to give up on it.

Depends on the capeshit. I'd say it's depth is comparable to Nolan's first two, it just has higher goals.

>Blade Runner is a dystopia, did you just want to show off your big word?

Dystopias are all about rules and restrictions, dumbass. That's why they are good for world building.

>Gaff
>who manipulates and hints instead of being direct
What was the first rule I gave you?
>Brett
>Morose, sardonic and resentful of younger people who are better paid.
Does that strike you as non-archetypal? I think you're just jaded by the current state of Hollywood more than anything else. The elements you're criticizing Prometheus for were never really done better in other times so much as differently.

>character driven stuff can still slip through the cracks
Maybe you went into Prometheus with the wrong attitude. I think that the other anons were on point with their Mountains of Madness comparison. The movie's about 50% H.P. Lovecraft and 50% Mario Bava with a sleek contemporary coat of paint on top to distinguish itself from them.

And also I'm going to assume victory by default on all of the points I made that you didn't address.

I still don't really see the relevance, and excessive use of commas bothers me.

Oh that's what dystopias are about, wait no they aren't.
World building, cool phrase, i see you have literature down to a fine art. Or maybe just D&D.
Anyway, i'm out, watching you get told while you fire back with abuse and name-calling has been a real treat though.

checking those devilish trips

>Le running in straight line when one step sideways would save you episode

>I still don't really see the relevance

When talking about internal logic and restrictions in a setting, mentioning that a film is dystopian is pretty relevant. Dystopian fiction rely on using those restrictions to generate tone. If random shit happens all the time in a dystopia, you lose the sense of oppression. Things like routine and beurocracy can be made terrifying if you go the other way.

Prometheus haters and Blade runner fags got absolutely BTFO in this thread

>Does that strike you as non-archetypal?

It's not completely non-archetypal, but it's feasible.

This is what I brought up with my 'FUCK RLM AND CINEMASINS REEEEEEEE' bit. You're saying all of this like it's a truism but I'm almost certain that you haven't thought it out. Okay I can't hold it in any longer.

'BRAZIL' user, 'BRAZIL.' HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THE MOVIE BRAZIL?

>If random shit happens all the time in a dystopia (arbitrary comma) you lose the sense of oppression
I felt quite oppressed by Brazil despite the surreal dream-sequences, the goofy personalities of the authoritarian police-force officers and the protagonist's mother's absurd de-ageing surgery sub-plot.

>but it's feasible
But a geologist who smokes pot isn't? Is the problem feasibility now? Does the simple nature of the supporting cast of Prometheus distract you? I think that by being simple they have the opposite effect, they're given just enough to establish that they're people and then the focus is swung back to what the movie's really about.

>>derp how do I criticize a movie actually talk about filmmaking, no I'll just list plot elements preceded by 'derp' that'll show them
NHB if you take each of his lines as an example of where characters did things for no reason other than the movie required them to in order for the movie to move forward, then it's a pretty valid criticism. There are also other examples peppered throughout the movie. Note that I don't mean that characters have to act totally logically at all times, but there must be some reason for them to do something, they can even do things because they are stupid or because of a flaw (in both cases, if it's consistent with their character) or acting on wrong or incomplete information, but those are still reasons for them doing something.

Prometheus was shot well and had some big ideas but the details in the script pulled it down. The fact that the script got passed around to like a dozen people really shows. Lindelof tried to sorta patch some holes by sprinkling mystery and symbolism in some places but IMO didn't end up doing it any favors.

>its a Sup Forums pretends prometheus is a bad movie because the crew does stupid shit when in its obvious that weyland threw together a rag tag team of idiots with what little was left of his fortune before he died

It's not important.

I love Brazil and I know it breaks the mould, but it's about a man's mind breaking down so you've got an unreliable narrator element. The movie revolves around a rule which cannot be changed - whatever is written on the paper that ruins his life cannot be altered even though its marked incorrectly. That's the scariest part for me, the rest is more satirical.

I'm warming to your point but the characters in Prometheus, apart from David (thanks to an amazing performance) came across as lazy writing rather than pragmatic writing.

Okay lets go through them one by one
>derp there are alien worms in my eye and I just had unprotected sex with my wife, no need to mention it to anyone though
guys pls stop our dream expedition to solve the mysteries that have troubled humanity since the dawn of time, something we couldn't have predicted has happened

>derp I just self-aborted a bloody squid fetus and have a stapled together stomach wound, won't tell anyone though (nor does anyone comment on me staggering round smeared in blood and amniotic fluid)
I think at that at this point the voyage is devolving into a clusterfuck and everyone knows it. Going into specifics wouldn't have changed anything with Weyland and I don't think him and his inner circle of goons are going to question whether everyone's wellbeing is at risk after so many casualties. Just get Weyland what he wants and get out.

>derp I'm 99 fucking years old and want to ask the aliens for the secret of immortality, hmm the best way to do that is assemble a crew of fucktards and put them into hypersleep without them even meeting each other let alone training together for this crucial mission
How exactly do you specifically train for this kind of thing. Keep in mind that in the Alien-verse extra-terrestrial challenge isn't an out-there idea. I think that since they're all professionals it's a given that they know how to do their specific jobs they prepared for everything they could have reasonably expected. Did you do a team trust-building exercise before every single job you've ever worked? These people don't know what they're getting into, only Noomi, her boyfriend and Weyland think it's game-changing stuff, to the rest of them they might as well be in Siberia or something for all they care.

>derp isn't that hissing, cobra like alien penis worm cute, let's make friends with it
Deleted scenes make this less strange but I think it's still reasonable to figure that the suit made him feel reasonably safe.

I think your trying to salvage your point about rules here where it doesn't really work. The protagonist's life isn't determined by that piece of paper, somebody could have shown some initiative and made a discretionary call, we're explicitly shown that there are people who do this in the Brazil-verse, it's just that in the protagonist's specific case the system worked against him. Bureaucracy stifles initiative and even arguably humanity but it's still a system composed of humans, not robots.

And I'm still far from swayed on the 'lazy writing' point. I can't imagine somebody watching Prometheus and being bothered by the fact that Idris Elba's co-pilots have maybe 3 lines each. I don't think anything else was needed. The movie isn't a character piece.

>guys pls stop our dream expedition
He didn't have to stop the expedition, he could have been put into quarantine. By not doing that he's endangering the other crew members, the dream expedition itself, and especially his wife since they could have monitored her.

>How exactly do you specifically train for this kind of thing. Keep in mind that in the Alien-verse extra-terrestrial challenge isn't an out-there idea. I think that since they're all professionals it's a given that they know how to do their specific jobs they prepared for everything they could have reasonably expected. Did you do a team trust-building exercise before every single job you've ever worked? These people don't know what they're getting into, only Noomi, her boyfriend and Weyland think it's game-changing stuff, to the rest of them they might as well be in Siberia or something for all they care.
I don't work in environments where I will be isolated from the rest of humanity and with only my coworkers to rely on and where one of my coworkers having a breakdown or reacting badly to something could spiral out of control in an unrecoverable manner, so I don't do team-building exercises all the time. But the fact that they didn't do anything for such a specific and vital task is astonishing. Even just learning the facts of the mission could have had one of the personnel doing something that could shut down or endanger the whole mission, and they had no way of knowing that this would be the case until they woke them up.

This could be excusable if it was established that WY was incredibly inept or just didn't care in the slightest, but they didn't establish that, especially with this being the owner's pet project.

>axes are useful tools for survival.

Yeah if you land on Pandora maybe. And don't tell me you're hacking through the hull with that thing in an emergency. Space axe is dumb, moving on.

>The movie isn't a character piece.

That doesn't mean you should neglect character. Mad Max managed to have better characters than Prometheus despite it being pulp and having fuck all dialogue. This is because Mad Max's characters each had a heavily detailed, unmentioned backstory that the actors were building their characters from. That's a long process, but the work shows. Mad Max was the furthest fucking thing from a character piece as well, it was basically a chase scene, but they respected their movie too much to do "We'll put a stoner in here for some topical dialogue and for him to fuck up later on", "We'll put an angry black guy here because black guys are angry in movies and we like Idris Elba's shit", or "I want religious symbolism but they won't let me build a crucifix-penis ship. Let's make the most accomplished scientist a batshit creationist."

I think that the point here is that if this kind of thing is even open for discussion it can't really be pointed out as a flaw, at most it's a quirk of the plot. Every story has this kind of shit. Why was Othello's wife such an airhead about the significance of the hankerchief? If Blade Runner's vision of earth is so populated that people are crammed shoulder to shoulder how is an eccentric weirdo able to have a whole urban building with serviceable utilities to himself? These things don't ruin stories unless you let them.

>This could be excusable if it was established that WY was incredibly inept or just didn't care in the slightest, but they didn't establish that, especially with this being the owner's pet project.
This might sound lame as hell, but don't you think that that could be inferred? Could they have just fucked up and underestimated what they'd be facing? Keep in mind again that this is a world where space-travel is bordering on mundane. What happened to the crew of the Prometheus would be like a spelunking expedition running into the creatures from The Descent, they just couldn't have anticipated it. Sure Weyland seemed to put a lot of stock into it but that's no assurance that this was a certain thing or that he knew what to expect. Dying people have thrown in their faith with ideas as strange as creator-aliens before.

You might not hack through the hull but maybe a stuck door or something I don't think is too big of a stretch. What reasons do they have not to bring the axe? And don't say safety hazard because they have guns and flamethrowers on board.

Mad Max IS a character driven film though and I'll argue with anybody who disagrees. My response to you will get its own post in a moment.

Do you know what a visual cue is? This is the film board, you should at least try.

Now, for Mad Max, this is one of my favourite movies.

>despite it being pulp and having fuck all dialogue
First off what do you mean by 'pulp?' I can understand why somebody could classify the movie that way, the subject matter is revenge and violence and car-chases make up a significant part of the movie, but I can't imagine why anybody would classify the movie as such after seeing it.

You say that Mad Max manages to have better characters than Prometheus 'despite' it being pulp. I think that Mad Max's strong characters were no fluke of superior execution of some supporting element of the movie. Mad Max is 100% about the characters and they were strong because that's what the filmmakers wanted to be strong, they're what they wanted you to focus on and appreciate. And 'fuck all dialogue?' The movie's got a fair amount of talking going on. I think that all of the most important scenes in the movie are the conversations between Max and the Mobile Force Patrol chief. The core conflict of the movie is constantly brought up and analyzed in these exchanges and it's all in what they're saying, none of this 'deepest-lore character acting' you seem to be suggesting. The movie is very much dialogue driven.

You say that the performances in Mad Max are drawing from an 'unmentioned backstory that the actors were building their characters from' but I disagree. I think that a significant amount of the backstory and development of the cast is actually delivered through exposition, you can still get a sense of what the characters are about just from the performances and I agree that this is due to the actors having their roles down, but I think that you're selling the movie short by viewing it as exploitative pulp that happened to have a good narrative going on the side. I see Mad Max as a fascinating and compelling movie about a hero's fall from grace that happens to have excellent action elements too.

I'd address your prometheus points now but post character limit.

Shit, I was talking about Fury Road, not the first Mad Max. I'm a fan of both for very different reasons.

>First off what do you mean by 'pulp?

I don't consider pulp disparaging. Like you said about MM1, the subject matter is unashamedly pulpy and I love it for that. The cinematography in Fury Road is on a much more sophisticated level and I love that too. The whole movie was a pleasant surprise and I honestly believe the gimmick of unseen backstory reflects an ethos of hard work being put to the little details, despite it being a recent movie.

My main gripe is that while Alien sometimes had characters doing things that ended up being a bad decision, they made those decisions because they had bad information, no information, or due to a character flaw or unwillingness to do something that was established earlier. In a couple of instances they were directly sabotaged. Even the cartoonishly evil corporation had a logical reason for deciding the crew was expendable so long as the creature could be brought back.

In Prometheus in many cases where people do dumb things, it's not satisfactorily explained why they are doing those dumb things. Sure, it's plausible that they could have done it because they were dumb or overconfident assholes. I will freely admit that most of the issues could be explained away by the characters just being dumb or overconfident assholes.

But when practically everyone is a dumb asshole 'just because' that does stupid things that lead to their demise the story becomes much less interesting. It's about a bunch of dumb assholes in a spaceship that go and do stupid things on a planet and die for it.

Even that would be okay, but the movie has the audacity to try to layer meaning and symbolism on top of the dumb assholes doing stupid things, so you end up with cases where an idiot does something dumb while the audience is yelling at the screen like it's a slasher film "don't go in there!!" and then instead of just getting his comeuppance for being stupid, his being stupid is actually also a lesson about human hubris and how we can't selfishly create and must create according to the inconsistent morality regarding creation that Lindelof tacked on to the script.

You can't really marry those to each other and have them still be effective. The big ideas are much more effective when they are told using effective characters. Imagine if Caesar was a dumb moron that lucked into his position through no doing of his own, and was incompetent. Does his downfall mean anything?

>It's about a bunch of dumb assholes in a spaceship that go and do stupid things on a planet and die for it.
Congrats, you're about as observant as David who is a fictional character.

Oh, we're talking about Fury Road. In that case I think that the backstories were so shallow that no matter how subtly they got those stories across there's nothing impressive about them and never could have been. 'We're old and rugged naturalists,' 'I work for meme-boss but am strong and independent,' 'we work for meme-boss and are orkz from 40k WAAAAAGHHHHTNESS ME!'

What do you think symbolism means? I have no idea what you're getting at here. Well not really, I see that you mean 'a story about a bunch of blundering assholes isn't compelling' but I just disagree and don't really see how to take the matter any further. None of what they did bothers me, I didn't see any of their actions as slasher-movie tier retarded. They're meant to be well in over-their-heads and with that in mind I don't think that anything that they do over the course of the movie feels egregiously rash or thoughtless.

It's an Alien tradition

There is no way Prometheus had better characters than Fury Road. Prometheus was so stock-Hollywood that it hurt. David, is, of course, the best character overall (it's a little ironic that the most compelling character is a robot) but the others could have been lifted from any forgettable blockbuster.

Slasher characters aren't stupid, they're merely victims of narrative. It doesn't matter how clever they try to be because they have been written to die. That's why you don't waste mental effort trying to think of survival strategies. If you were curious and open-minded, you might instead wonder why the characters had to die.

Seems kinda obvious but it never is.

I am willing to bet you don't believe Scott and Lindelof had this kind of awareness.

God damn you can see her huge bush through the panties

barfing.gif

I think that Fury Road is one of the most empty movies to ever receive widespread acclaim.

Agreed. It was disgusting to watch it as a fan of the original. They just used the Mad Max IP to try and maximise their revenue, but there was nothing Mad Max about that film save the name.

It achieved all its goals while throwing in enough titbits for the critics and bloggers to think it was high brow. It was very competant.

>I see that you mean 'a story about a bunch of blundering assholes isn't compelling' but I just disagree and don't really see how to take the matter any further.
I more mean that a bunch of blundering assholes aren't compelling when they just happen to be a bunch of blundering assholes and aren't specifically written to be blundering assholes. Darkstar comes to mind where blundering assholes are fine, but they were intentionally written to be blundering assholes.
I maybe used symbolism as the wrong word. Things like the name of the planet being a bible verse that is applicable to the meeting between weyland and the engineer, and a theme that they are trying to get across via that interaction. I feel like that becomes less effective when the characters are acting dumb from the start and the audience is aware that the characters are acting dumb. It cheapens the meaning they are trying to impart down to "play stupid games, get stupid prizes" which I don't think was what was intended.

>he doesn't like bush

>he likes fish-flavored armpits

Well...shit

It's a tacticool axe

>he doesn't like armpit pussy

The only pleb filter that matters

I think that's a bit harsh, Miller was still in charge after all and he doesn't strike me as the type to half-ass his fan-favourite work for money. I think he just thinks of Mad Max like a lot of other people as better off being a vehicle for delivering crazy high-speed explosive action than anything else. To his credit most people really liked the movie.

>aren't specifically written to be blundering assholes
I got the distinct impression that they were.

And as for the symbolism stuff I think it's very clever that just from the movie's title you can demystify just about everything that's strange about the aliens and their relationship with humanity. I don't see the movie as 'play stupid games, get stupid prizes,' I think a more appropriate meme-summation would be 'play with fire, get burned.'

disregard everything else, the biggest pleb in the thread is indisputably you.

>he just thinks of Mad Max like a lot of other people as better off being a vehicle for delivering crazy high-speed explosive action
One has to be careful with movies like Fury Road because it's very easy to end up engaging with fantasies instead of the actual film. The part I've quoted is a good example: Miller has overtaken Fury Road in importance in a discussion about Fury Road, the film can tell less about itself than a fantasy about Miller's inner thoughts as constructed by an anonymous poster who has never met Miller and cannot read minds.

you stupid autistic fags do have a point about a few scenes that were not great in prometheus... but you god damn basement dwelling ugly ass fat motherfucking retarded shitheads are WAAAAAAY to autistic to be able to understand that the rest of the movie was actaully awesome and intelligent. it's a great 1st of the upcoming 3 more prequels that will lead to the first alien movie.

so all you motherfuckers go back to watching some easy do understand generic hollywood shit stories while still asking your stupid fuckheads what the black goo is and why the engineer killed himself in the beginning.